Dollar for dollar, a combined double income family earns less for MY citizens working in MY. Disregard the size of dwellings, the cost of housing isn't that much lower, dollar for dollar wise. Young MY couples are also struggling to afford a decent house:(. Beside SG citizens, only MY citizens who earn SG dollars can echo this argument.
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Property News
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Dollar for dollar, a combined double income family earns less for MY citizens working in MY. Disregard the size of dwellings, the cost of housing isn't that much lower, dollar for dollar wise. Young MY couples are also struggling to afford a decent house:(. Beside SG citizens, only MY citizens who earn SG dollars can echo this argument.
I was itchy to look into Spore property market and did some research. Horrors on the prices you hv in Singapore. With those type of money, I can buy many places in world's capital cities. Smal wonder many come into JB for affordable housing..at least in Spore terms.
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Everyone need a place to call home.
To me, home is like my base. Without a home base to come back to..... One can never fight a good war.
To me, home is like my base. Without a home base to come back to..... One can never fight a good war.
I understand the sg govt gives subsidies for couples who are first time buyers. Here in boleh land, there is no way for govt gonna give us any financial aid to non bumis. We don't enjoy preferential bank loan rate, we don't enjoy bumi discount from developers. Fresh grads here earns a pittance compared to sg graduates. It sure is tougher for Malaysians to buy their first property.
With more homes than all of Singapore combined, inevitable glut hits Iskandar
Saturday May 23, 2015
01:53 PM GMT+8
KUALA LUMPUR, May 23 — Frenzied construction by developers hoping to tap the real estate potential of the Iskandar region is ironically leading to a glut that is depressing property value in the southern economic development corridor.
According to a report by the Financial Times, the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) has already sounded a warning over the 336,000 private residential units either built or being built in Iskandar to target buyers from the republic.
The figure exceeds the total of all completed private homes on the market in the island state, said the MAS, illustrating the margin with which supply will exceed demand in Iskandar.
The development in Iskandar also far outstrips any that are meant for local buyers in the rest of Johor, which official figures put as 38,000 under construction and a further 48,000 in the planning stage.
Worryingly for the primarily China-based developers is that most of these projects are already in progress even as demand is tapering off.
One such developer, Country Garden, has 45 condominium towers with a combined total of 9,500 units set to come online in 2017, but has received bookings for less than a third some two years after construction began in 2013.
This excess supply is also hitting builders such as Guangzhou R&F Properties that has sold just half of its 1,400 luxury home units in the region; another, Greenland Group, is planning another 2,000.
Aside from the obvious glut, other factors depressing sales in the region are the prices that have ballooned to levels comparable to the national capital of Kuala Lumpur and property controls that limit foreigners to buying property priced at no less than RM1 million.
According to data by Asean Confidential, the effects on property value growth in Iskandar is already palpable.
Going into 2012, it began climbing steadily to eventually outstrip the national average, before peaking at 25 per cent in annual appreciation. But it began falling almost immediately, plunging to 10 per cent last year, less than a percentage point over the rest of the country.
Local developers are already either scaling back their plans for Iskandar or retooling for non-residential developments, according to the FT.
In March, Medini Iskandar announced that it was no longer building new residential units there due to the number of developers building such property. Tropicana is considering building a hospital and office tower in place of the remaining 2,000 units of residential homes from the initial 3,000 planned.Another, Brunfield, has opted to completely scrap its planned 1,400-unit condominium project there.
On April 20, Malay Mail Online reported Johor lawmakers as saying that the reality is demand has not caught up with the state’s supply of premium residential and commercial properties.
- See more at: http://www.themalaymailonline.com/m...itable-glut-hits-iskanda#sthash.HIybBIIz.dpuf
Saturday May 23, 2015
01:53 PM GMT+8
KUALA LUMPUR, May 23 — Frenzied construction by developers hoping to tap the real estate potential of the Iskandar region is ironically leading to a glut that is depressing property value in the southern economic development corridor.
According to a report by the Financial Times, the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) has already sounded a warning over the 336,000 private residential units either built or being built in Iskandar to target buyers from the republic.
The figure exceeds the total of all completed private homes on the market in the island state, said the MAS, illustrating the margin with which supply will exceed demand in Iskandar.
The development in Iskandar also far outstrips any that are meant for local buyers in the rest of Johor, which official figures put as 38,000 under construction and a further 48,000 in the planning stage.
Worryingly for the primarily China-based developers is that most of these projects are already in progress even as demand is tapering off.
One such developer, Country Garden, has 45 condominium towers with a combined total of 9,500 units set to come online in 2017, but has received bookings for less than a third some two years after construction began in 2013.
This excess supply is also hitting builders such as Guangzhou R&F Properties that has sold just half of its 1,400 luxury home units in the region; another, Greenland Group, is planning another 2,000.
Aside from the obvious glut, other factors depressing sales in the region are the prices that have ballooned to levels comparable to the national capital of Kuala Lumpur and property controls that limit foreigners to buying property priced at no less than RM1 million.
According to data by Asean Confidential, the effects on property value growth in Iskandar is already palpable.
Going into 2012, it began climbing steadily to eventually outstrip the national average, before peaking at 25 per cent in annual appreciation. But it began falling almost immediately, plunging to 10 per cent last year, less than a percentage point over the rest of the country.
Local developers are already either scaling back their plans for Iskandar or retooling for non-residential developments, according to the FT.
In March, Medini Iskandar announced that it was no longer building new residential units there due to the number of developers building such property. Tropicana is considering building a hospital and office tower in place of the remaining 2,000 units of residential homes from the initial 3,000 planned.Another, Brunfield, has opted to completely scrap its planned 1,400-unit condominium project there.
On April 20, Malay Mail Online reported Johor lawmakers as saying that the reality is demand has not caught up with the state’s supply of premium residential and commercial properties.
- See more at: http://www.themalaymailonline.com/m...itable-glut-hits-iskanda#sthash.HIybBIIz.dpuf
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Not sure which report is more reliable.
According to this article published in Nov 2014 - http://srx.com.sg/singapore-propert...pbeat-about-iskandar-opens-sales-gallery-here
it reported that about 6,000 units out of the 9,400 units in Country Garden were already sold whereas this latest one shown here says less than one third or about only 3,000 units sold.
There is a vast difference in both reports.
I suppose what is not launched would not be counted.
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I believe that's in Medini 6 & 7 premises, and the one opening in June is Medini 6. The naysayers will continue even after Huawei and Gleneagles open.
Demand will come back. Property buying is in Asian's blood. You cannot get a spacious >1,000 sqft 3 bedroom freehold condo under $2.7 mil RM ($1 mil SGD) or a >2,000 sqft freehold landed property under $5.4 mil RM ($2 mil SGD) brand new in Singapore. Population and construction costs are still going up in Singapore. Hard truth
Demand will come back. Property buying is in Asian's blood. You cannot get a spacious >1,000 sqft 3 bedroom freehold condo under $2.7 mil RM ($1 mil SGD) or a >2,000 sqft freehold landed property under $5.4 mil RM ($2 mil SGD) brand new in Singapore. Population and construction costs are still going up in Singapore. Hard truth
But another hard truth is that most regular Joe and his family in SG will just prefer to stay put in SG, happily staying in their overpriced little HDB flat.
Just like in the more overcrowded Hongkong, despite the even higher price of apartments and very much smaller units there, not many Hongkongers are moving into Shenzhen to live there while still have to work in HK.
Mark O'Neill
Jan 2, 2015 11:32am
What draws Hongkongers to Shenzhen
Figures released by the Hong Kong government this week on the flow of people across the border show a flood of mainland visitors. Everyone knows that. But, surprisingly, they also show that an even larger number of Hong Kong people cross the other way everyday.
If thousands of mainlanders cannot live without Hong Kong, no less do thousands of our citizens rely on Shenzhen – for cheap housing, recreation, massage, shopping, eating, trading, work, golf and – until a national crackdown that began a year ago – prostitutes.
The two cities have not merged and there is a tightly controlled border between them. But they increasingly resemble the New York model of rich brother Manhattan and poor brother Brooklyn — two members of the same family, each dependent on the other.
The data, from the Planning Department, comes from a survey carried out at 10 immigration control points from Feb. 24 to March 9, 2014, the first since a similar one three years before.
During the period, it found a daily average of 658,100 passenger trips across the border, 8 percent more than in the 2011 survey. Of these, 53,200 were between the city and Macau and 604,900 between here and Shenzhen. Of the latter, 52 percent were made by residents of Hong Kong, 32 percent by mainlanders and 14 percent by Hong Kong people who live on the mainland.
Of the Hong Kong travelers, 42 percent went for leisure, 27 percent to visit friends and relatives, and 19 per cent for business. Shenzhen was the most popular mainland destination, accounting for 74 percent of the trips. A daily average of 168,200 were same-day trips.
The survey found 737,000 travelers crossed the border at least once a week, up 5 percent from the 2011 survey. Of these, 65 percent were residents of Hong Kong. But the number of Hong Kong people going to work each day on the mainland fell to 17,400 from 21,500 in the last survey.
“For me, the biggest attraction of Shenzhen is the massage, just 88 yuan (US$14, HK$110) for three hours in Futian,” said Leung Kwok-lao, a taxi driver. “It is just over the border and very convenient. It is half of the price in Hong Kong. I also go to Hua Qiang Bei and buy electronic pieces for the interior for the cab. They make them to order for you, at 20-30 percent of the price here.”
Hua Qiang Bei is one of the world’s largest markets for electronic goods, real and fake, which attracts clients from around the globe.
“Shenzhen is the easiest place to go for a day out, accessible and cheap. There are many restaurants, massage parlors and places to shop,” said Leung. “The law and order is all right, better than other mainland cities.”
Thousands of Hong Kong residents like Leung go to Shenzhen for rest and recreation; it is the most convenient place to go, cheaper and with more to do than Macau, and with decades of experience in serving Hong Kong people. Sex used to be a popular reason – until a crackdown that began at the start of 2014. For that, it is now safer and wiser to go elsewhere.
For the rich and upper middle class, another attraction is golf. Mission Hills in Guanlan, which is between Shenzhen and Dongguan, is the world’s biggest golf course, with 216 holes. Each of its 12 courses was designed by a different golf personality.
Another group of frequent travelers are traders who take goods from here to Shenzhen, to benefit from the difference in price and the demand for genuine goods. These include milk powder, electronics, Chinese medicine, skin care products and other cosmetics. Fewer goods come the other way.
A third group are Hong Kong people who have moved to Shenzhen and commute back each day. They go because its housing is cheaper, 40 percent or more, or they have a mainland wife not qualified to live here. The preference of most is have their children educated in schools in Hong Kong.
This explains another figure in the survey – 20,510 children crossed the border each day to Hong Kong for schooling, an increase of 60per cent from the 12,790 in 2011. Of these, 40 percent were younger than five, 45.4 percent are six to 11 and the rest 12 to 18.
“It is the poor and working class of Hong Kong who move to Shenzhen,” said Michael Wong, an IT consultant who likes to go there on weekends to visit restaurants, coffee houses and bookshops and buy fake CDs.
Jan 2, 2015 11:32am
What draws Hongkongers to Shenzhen
Figures released by the Hong Kong government this week on the flow of people across the border show a flood of mainland visitors. Everyone knows that. But, surprisingly, they also show that an even larger number of Hong Kong people cross the other way everyday.
If thousands of mainlanders cannot live without Hong Kong, no less do thousands of our citizens rely on Shenzhen – for cheap housing, recreation, massage, shopping, eating, trading, work, golf and – until a national crackdown that began a year ago – prostitutes.
The two cities have not merged and there is a tightly controlled border between them. But they increasingly resemble the New York model of rich brother Manhattan and poor brother Brooklyn — two members of the same family, each dependent on the other.
The data, from the Planning Department, comes from a survey carried out at 10 immigration control points from Feb. 24 to March 9, 2014, the first since a similar one three years before.
During the period, it found a daily average of 658,100 passenger trips across the border, 8 percent more than in the 2011 survey. Of these, 53,200 were between the city and Macau and 604,900 between here and Shenzhen. Of the latter, 52 percent were made by residents of Hong Kong, 32 percent by mainlanders and 14 percent by Hong Kong people who live on the mainland.
Of the Hong Kong travelers, 42 percent went for leisure, 27 percent to visit friends and relatives, and 19 per cent for business. Shenzhen was the most popular mainland destination, accounting for 74 percent of the trips. A daily average of 168,200 were same-day trips.
The survey found 737,000 travelers crossed the border at least once a week, up 5 percent from the 2011 survey. Of these, 65 percent were residents of Hong Kong. But the number of Hong Kong people going to work each day on the mainland fell to 17,400 from 21,500 in the last survey.
“For me, the biggest attraction of Shenzhen is the massage, just 88 yuan (US$14, HK$110) for three hours in Futian,” said Leung Kwok-lao, a taxi driver. “It is just over the border and very convenient. It is half of the price in Hong Kong. I also go to Hua Qiang Bei and buy electronic pieces for the interior for the cab. They make them to order for you, at 20-30 percent of the price here.”
Hua Qiang Bei is one of the world’s largest markets for electronic goods, real and fake, which attracts clients from around the globe.
“Shenzhen is the easiest place to go for a day out, accessible and cheap. There are many restaurants, massage parlors and places to shop,” said Leung. “The law and order is all right, better than other mainland cities.”
Thousands of Hong Kong residents like Leung go to Shenzhen for rest and recreation; it is the most convenient place to go, cheaper and with more to do than Macau, and with decades of experience in serving Hong Kong people. Sex used to be a popular reason – until a crackdown that began at the start of 2014. For that, it is now safer and wiser to go elsewhere.
For the rich and upper middle class, another attraction is golf. Mission Hills in Guanlan, which is between Shenzhen and Dongguan, is the world’s biggest golf course, with 216 holes. Each of its 12 courses was designed by a different golf personality.
Another group of frequent travelers are traders who take goods from here to Shenzhen, to benefit from the difference in price and the demand for genuine goods. These include milk powder, electronics, Chinese medicine, skin care products and other cosmetics. Fewer goods come the other way.
A third group are Hong Kong people who have moved to Shenzhen and commute back each day. They go because its housing is cheaper, 40 percent or more, or they have a mainland wife not qualified to live here. The preference of most is have their children educated in schools in Hong Kong.
This explains another figure in the survey – 20,510 children crossed the border each day to Hong Kong for schooling, an increase of 60per cent from the 12,790 in 2011. Of these, 40 percent were younger than five, 45.4 percent are six to 11 and the rest 12 to 18.
“It is the poor and working class of Hong Kong who move to Shenzhen,” said Michael Wong, an IT consultant who likes to go there on weekends to visit restaurants, coffee houses and bookshops and buy fake CDs.
Those who went bankrupt with SG properties were because of greed. They bought expensive housing more than they could afford. So when they lost their jobs in a crisis, naturally they had no way to repay the loans.
Haha.. I get your point. I was being sarcastic with Lee Hsien Loong's words. This guy wants us to contribute to the prosperity of the nation. But when it comes to affordable housing, especially for the young, there are hardly any. Instead of solving the problem, he tells them to manage their expectations. That's hypnotism and delusion! He's not solving anything.
$900k HDB flats is still very comfortable for many in SG, especially if they are in good locations. Past data have shown these flats get snapped up.
Actually, there are more wealthy people in SG than most of us realise. I have a colleague who told me his neighbour (previously a foreigner but thanks to the SG government, now already a PR or Singaporean) used CASH to pay for his $600k HDB flat.
A misconception many have is that the rich live in private properties. I tell you, some of those who live in HDB flats are many times richer than those who own private condos or even landed properties! It's just their choice to buy HDB flats.
As for those school teachers or new grads, they got to such thumb. Listen to Big Daddy, the PM, "manage your expectations". Buy 3 or 4-room BTO flats in faraway corner of Singapore. Resale flats are not catered to them.
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I think have to qualify that it is comfortable for many RICH Singaporeans lah. I wanted to buy a jumbo flat at Woodlands but asking COV of $100K above $700K valuation was way beyond my limited means. Maybe some people may just swallow the hefty price tag even if it is barely affordable because they hope in 5 years time the unit will fetch a better price. I am glad that I looked beyond Woodlands to Johor.
Correct me if I'm wrong but that was in those days when the government became irresponsible and did not build sufficient BTO flats. This caused resale flats' COV to shoot up to as high as $100-120k. Instead of addressing the issue, Mah Bow Tan back then even got the cheek to say it was a good thing as he was helping home owners make profits from their flats. Useless overpaid minister!
Coming back to the topic... yes, there are MANY RICH Singaporeans indeed!
People are still willing to pay big money to buy smaller homes here cos they and their families want to live, study, work here. Not everyone can tahan the journey from JB to Singapore and then back to JB. The developers in property advertisements always make the distance from SG to Iskandar sound so close. "Oh it's a 10-15 minutes drive from CIQ." Haha... Try going in during peak hours. How about when there is delay at the checkpoint? And from Woodlands or Tuas, you still need to drive to work, which could be in the city. Overall time from JB home to actual workplace could be 1 hour or longer.
My colleague sold off his house in Iskandar for a profit and decided to come back to Singapore cos his kids need to study here and the traveling to and fro everyday was just too much. Even my Malaysian colleague who lives in JB got to leave work like 5+am in the morning and when he reaches here at 7+am he got to steal some sleep before starting work. If he leaves home later, the jam could be terrible. This is one factor I think some who are thinking of staying in Johor and work here have not fully considered.
But if you are retired or semi-retired, "eng-eng cheng-cheng", kids all grown up, it's a different story.
Another reason why people here are willing to pay a lot more for smaller homes is the safer environment in SG and policies here are better planned than Malaysia's. No offence when I say this even though I am not a government supporter. Medical care is generally much better and more advanced. It's so convenient to travel also. You can be out at 1am and not fear being robbed or raped. One big downside is SG is very crowded.
It's really all about the confidence investors have about SG. Properties here also have more opportunities to rise in value compared to JB's. Otherwise, for eg, who in the right mind will pay more than a million $ for a small 5-bedroom flat in Pinnacle? Or $800+k for a small 4-room flat in Toa Payoh?
Well, maybe they are rich? But even if they are not, they see the potential and value in those expensive HDB flats.Honestly, if I have 2 million Sing dollars to spend solely on property alone, I'd rather buy a 3 bedroom condo in SG than a very big house in JB. But that's the working adult me. Like I said, if I "eng eng cheng cheng" already retired, no liabilities, then living in JB may not be so bad.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but that was in those days when the government became irresponsible and did not build sufficient BTO flats. This caused resale flats' COV to shoot up to as high as $100-120k. Instead of addressing the issue, Mah Bow Tan back then even got the cheek to say it was a good thing as he was helping home owners make profits from their flats. Useless overpaid minister!
Coming back to the topic... yes, there are MANY RICH Singaporeans indeed!
People are still willing to pay big money to buy smaller homes here cos they and their families want to live, study, work here. Not everyone can tahan the journey from JB to Singapore and then back to JB. The developers in property advertisements always make the distance from SG to Iskandar sound so close. "Oh it's a 10-15 minutes drive from CIQ." Haha... Try going in during peak hours. How about when there is delay at the checkpoint? And from Woodlands or Tuas, you still need to drive to work, which could be in the city. Overall time from JB home to actual workplace could be 1 hour or longer.
My colleague sold off his house in Iskandar for a profit and decided to come back to Singapore cos his kids need to study here and the traveling to and fro everyday was just too much. Even my Malaysian colleague who lives in JB got to leave work like 5+am in the morning and when he reaches here at 7+am he got to steal some sleep before starting work. If he leaves home later, the jam could be terrible. This is one factor I think some who are thinking of staying in Johor and work here have not fully considered.
But if you are retired or semi-retired, "eng-eng cheng-cheng", kids all grown up, it's a different story.
Another reason why people here are willing to pay a lot more for smaller homes is the safer environment in SG and policies here are better planned than Malaysia's. No offence when I say this even though I am not a government supporter. Medical care is generally much better and more advanced. It's so convenient to travel also. You can be out at 1am and not fear being robbed or raped. One big downside is SG is very crowded.
It's really all about the confidence investors have about SG. Properties here also have more opportunities to rise in value compared to JB's. Otherwise, for eg, who in the right mind will pay more than a million $ for a small 5-bedroom flat in Pinnacle? Or $800+k for a small 4-room flat in Toa Payoh?
Honestly, if I have 2 million Sing dollars to spend solely on property alone, I'd rather buy a 3 bedroom condo in SG than a very big house in JB. But that's the working adult me. Like I said, if I "eng eng cheng cheng" already retired, no liabilities, then living in JB may not be so bad.
TBH I am quite blur as to what happened back in those days because I was totally uninterested in property. I believe the Govt went to the market with HDB and all of a sudden prices of HDB jumped and jumped and today we are looking at HDB prices above a million dollars. Somewhere along the line the ideal of public housing mutated into something horrible. For people who bought smaller HDBs they are happy to see asset appreciation but may also feel "dui" that they had not taken the bigger units that would have appreciated even more. In any case most of the gainers were those who bought in the 80s as they suddenly see their wallets grow fat in the 90s when they sell.
Yes you are right, many people will prefer to stay in Singapore despite the heavy (exorbitant even?) price to pay for a roof over the head that you cannot even bequeath to your children, because Singapore is where they study, work and play. Not even 3 years ago I would say that it is crazy to commute from JB to Singapore everyday seeing the jams. Go in a few times a month to eat and shop still OK, but everyday face the jam? Over my dead body! Better spend my time in bed than on the road!
But reality bit hard when we needed more space, and balloting for balance flats became futile and failed exercises, and a 4 years wait for a BTO becomes a depressing thought because these flats are smaller than the HDB we were living in, which was in the matured estate with full amenities around. As mentioned earlier, the COV $100K for a jumbo flat was a Goliath to deal with, and I don't even have a sling or small stones to throw! LOL! So either we stay put in Singapore and continue living the same life as we did for past decade, or we make the radical but never-considered-before decision to live in Johor, after my colleague told me that we could consider JB. He had bought a unit in Twin Galaxy by then.
So that was the start of a new beginning for us in 2013. W knew we had to work fast because of the impending hike to RM1 million minimum. After looking at a few houses for a couple of months (looking at landed only just above RM500K) we finally bought a place, had it renovated and chop chop moved in to begin a new but exciting life in JB. And we got to rent out the HDB and get passive income, something we never imagined we could even do as an (maybe even less than) average family! Sure the daily commute by bike does get to me and irks me, esp since it is always Singapore side at fault for the jams, seen from my perspective. :p But overall the quality of life has increased for us.
What would I do with S$2 million? I would still buy a landed in JB, and buy a dual key condo in Singapore. Live in JB landed and rent out the smaller room in condo, and reserved the bigger space for occasional bunking in Singapore esp when don't feel like joining the jam for the day
. Or maybe rent out the bigger space and keep the small room. Either way will work. But that is only dreaming if I have $2M dollars.:oSimilar threads
