Pritam's idea of PAP-WP Coalition

[zhihau]

Well, it is a blessing in disguise that this issue can be discussed in the open NOW with a fair bit of balance rather than being manipulated by others during the hustling of next GE

me think it's only natural to question

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

This is getting stale, can you come up with something more interesting and creative?

Goh Meng Seng

Let's not be too harsh on GMS.
He doesn't realise that the issue now is not why Pritam made that remark, or whether a coalition will happen, or what impact it will have on hardcore opposition supporters, etc.
The issue now is why GMS made that remark. What were his intentions?

My take is that it's really not that complicated.
He is simply envious that Pritam is in parliament and he is not. He sees Pritam as someone younger, more eloquent, who is almost a direct replacement for him. He knows CSM is way beyond him, but Pritam is not.

Ok, what are MY intentions for saying this?
It's because GMS has gradually irritated me more and more with his recent post election comments, whereas I think Pritam has been the outstanding performer in his team. I read the exchanges between him and Shanmugam in the ST and was particularly impressed with his responses. He took him on headon, without being nasty while not backing down either.

 

[jw5]

This is getting stale, can you come up with something more interesting and creative?

Yes. "The english educated are unable to detect subtlety".

You are starting to piss more and more people off, even those who are opposition supporters and your supporters.
The only good thing is that your comments are limited to the ah peks (and occasional ah ums) in this forum and the general public don't get to read or hear them.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

You are full of contradictions here. First you say oh... GMS is jealous and and want to whack Pritam, so talk about this coalition thing... never mind if he knows whether it will affect WP's support... but wait, now you say, limited readers here, so never mind.... errr.. which is which?

Now, this is more creative and interesting than your previous ranting.

Goh Meng Seng

Yes. "The english educated are unable to detect subtlety".

You are starting to piss more and more people off, even those who are opposition supporters and your supporters.
The only good thing is that your comments are limited to the ah peks (and occasional ah ums) in this forum and the general public don't get to read or hear them.

 

[Nice-Gook]

The whole issue is simply is this.

What is an opposition party's premise of existence?...1.Does it wants to play ball with PAP...or 2.Does it want to unseat PAP Libyan style?

That is the gist of the matter.Obviously JBJ and SDP wants to unseat PAP--there is no question about it.But WP wants to play ball with PAP--all empirical evidences point to that direction.Including this one about WP/PAP coalition....but the pit is such airing should be done by the party's secretary general; it's his/her portfolio not Pritam's.

Notwithstanding all talks by WP MPs in the parliament seems to carry only one message----that PAP is legitimate and it's the people will by their votes.

Now,what would be interesting to know is National Solidarity Party (NSP) standing on PAP status quo.Is it with JBJ or against him?

 

[Perspective]

The whole issue is simply is this.

What is an opposition party's premise of existence?...1.Does it wants to play ball with PAP...or 2.Does it want to unseat PAP Libyan style?

That is the gist of the matter.Obviously JBJ and SDP wants to unseat PAP--there is no question about it.But WP wants to play ball with PAP--all empirical evidences point to that direction.Including this one about WP/PAP coalition....but the pit is such airing should be done by the party's secretary general; it's his/her portfolio not Pritam's.

Notwithstanding all talks by WP MPs in the parliament seems to carry only one message----that PAP is legitimate and it's the people will by their votes.

Now,what would be interesting to know is National Solidarity Party (NSP) standing on PAP status quo.Is it with JBJ or against him?

No one in this thread is more out of league than you. Libyan style wars are not the only way to unseat a government and certainly never JBJ's mantra or SDP's mantra. You have also shallowly narrowed down an opposition party's existence on whether they will want to govern or not and how. There is more to it, a lot more, than that. And only a deaf frog would say that WP's only message was that PAP was legitimate. What stupidity. I don't think you should ask NSP what is their position when you aren't holding on a sane position or able to tell the positions when people do tell it to you.

 

[wwabbit]

What is an opposition party's premise of existence?...1.Does it wants to play ball with PAP...or 2.Does it want to unseat PAP Libyan style?

That is the gist of the matter.Obviously JBJ and SDP wants to unseat PAP--there is no question about it.But WP wants to play ball with PAP--all empirical evidences point to that direction.Including this one about WP/PAP coalition....but the pit is such airing should be done by the party's secretary general; it's his/her portfolio not Pritam's.

You are not seeing the issue correctly.

Ideally, WP would definitely like to unseat the PAP and take over. Realistically, it is impossible, at least not short-term. Not only can they not get enough votes, they don't even have the resources to form a shadow government, let alone having enough candidates to form a majority. At the moment, the only way the WP can get more people-friendly policies passed is to work with the PAP.

Just because the WP at the moment look like they are willing to work with the PAP doesn't mean that in the future, if the WP grows strong enough to field candidates in more than half of the seats, they won't attempt to unseat the PAP.

 

[Nice-Gook]

No one in this thread is more out of league than you. Libyan style wars are not the only way to unseat a government and certainly never JBJ's mantra or SDP's mantra. You have also shallowly narrowed down an opposition party's existence on whether they will want to govern or not and how. There is more to it, a lot more, than that. And only a deaf frog would say that WP's only message was that PAP was legitimate. What stupidity. I don't think you should ask NSP what is their position when you aren't holding on a sane position or able to tell the positions when people do tell it to you.

Obviously metaphorically speaking escapes you.

Rephrased-- is PAP a party that ought to be kicked out as our colonial masters or is it like any partisan political party like Labor vs Conservatives or Democrats vs Republicans; if it is still beyond your depth .

Therein lies the difference between 'opposition ' parties in the eyes of PAP.Don't believe?Just ask the head honcho of PAP.Because every one who went into politics opposing PAP who refused to play ball with it were either detained by ISD or bankrupted.Now JBJ and CSJ tasted bankruptcy while his predecessors were treated worse.

 

[Nice-Gook]

You are not seeing the issue correctly.

Ideally, WP would definitely like to unseat the PAP and take over. Realistically, it is impossible, at least not short-term. Not only can they not get enough votes, they don't even have the resources to form a shadow government, let alone having enough candidates to form a majority. At the moment, the only way the WP can get more people-friendly policies passed is to work with the PAP.

Just because the WP at the moment look like they are willing to work with the PAP doesn't mean that in the future, if the WP grows strong enough to field candidates in more than half of the seats, they won't attempt to unseat the PAP.

Oh yah ! there is no permanent friends or foes in politics--I understand that.
it
But what is the premise of WP?.....at least under JBJ we pretty much know what it stood for.Now under Low,we understand it is exactly the opposite of what JBJ stood for,right?....So,there you are.It is not the party per ce but the personality who is it's secretary general ,right?

And talking about WP not getting enough votes?....you got a chuckle out of me.Why?Because if it's peoples wishes why go against it?

And one more thing,what is this you talking about ,'the only way the WP can get more people-friendly policies passed is to work with the PAP' thingy?

That is if PAP policies are not people friendly than let the very people decide; is not what a 1 man 1 vote system is all about?....Besides,if WP wants to work within PAP why not join it?....

You raised the level of confusion.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroo

GMS sigh at time level headed in all other issues business included loses his head when it comes to politics. He see's himself as a master puppet manipulator when a. he no longer has any puppets and b. He no longer pulls what ever strings he had and c. The dynamics of the game has shifted drastically in the WP's favor.

His not so disguised concern is about the WP pushing its weight into Tampines and Marine Parade before GE 2016 thus shutting out NSP entirely out of the East for the next two electoral cycles. Its obvious in his other speculations in other threads. That said and done I as a WP well small time member would probably not look kindly on my party pushing other similarly small parties around before GE 2016, however after GE 2016 I would argue all bets are off in that area and if there are negotiations any other party would be in a weaker position from the start.

His attempts to elicit or push for a discussion on Pritams statements however speculative are a reflection of his belief in his strategy for Tan Kin Lian. That the true opposition without being tainted by any association with the PAP stands a better chance of wining in a three cornered fight.



Locke

Only people with something to hide or hidden agenda would not want people to know about such political thoughts and ideas.

If the idea or thoughts are open for "mischief", as Scroobal has put it, it means that the idea has no solid foundation to stand on its own or the one who originates the idea has not been effective in selling his idea. Hiding in halfway house will not bury this issue as once it is out in the open, it will bound to be discussed. Hoping that others will not discuss or cause "mischief" with it, is really behaving like an ostrich. Sooner or later you will have to face it. What happens to the spirit of "accountability"?

Well, it is a blessing in disguise that this issue can be discussed in the open NOW with a fair bit of balance rather than being manipulated by others during the hustling of next GE. But don't expect insects to understand such things.


Goh Meng Seng

 

[HedgeTrader]

His attempts to elicit or push for a discussion on Pritams statements however speculative are a reflection of his belief in his strategy for Tan Kin Lian. That the true opposition without being tainted by any association with the PAP stands a better chance of wining in a three cornered fight.

Even better chance of losing deposit LOL

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Locke,

You are getting quite close. Keep it up. I will do a round up later.

Apparently you are smarter with more brains than those insects which have bloated heads with nothing in them.

Goh Meng Seng

Dear Scroo

GMS sigh at time level headed in all other issues business included loses his head when it comes to politics. He see's himself as a master puppet manipulator when a. he no longer has any puppets and b. He no longer pulls what ever strings he had and c. The dynamics of the game has shifted drastically in the WP's favor.

His not so disguised concern is about the WP pushing its weight into Tampines and Marine Parade before GE 2016 thus shutting out NSP entirely out of the East for the next two electoral cycles. Its obvious in his other speculations in other threads. That said and done I as a WP well small time member would probably not look kindly on my party pushing other similarly small parties around before GE 2016, however after GE 2016 I would argue all bets are off in that area and if there are negotiations any other party would be in a weaker position from the start.

His attempts to elicit or push for a discussion on Pritams statements however speculative are a reflection of his belief in his strategy for Tan Kin Lian. That the true opposition without being tainted by any association with the PAP stands a better chance of wining in a three cornered fight.



Locke

 

[brocoli]

wp is nothing more than a party which is using anti pap votes to challenge pap at the ballot box but does nothing much to challenge pap in real issues... The voters have been keep in the dark.. Pritam probably sees a coalition where pap offers him some deputy minister post in future.. The way i see the wp challenge pap is like a bunch of panties wearing rich people(not workers) who will eventually bed the enemy for self glory..

As yaw shin loong puts it, voting for pap is for national interest.. And hougang people are silly enough to vote for a man who believes in this. If wp is just like pap, its better to go for pap because we know them very well.. Many people including me will probably switch back to pap if wp gets too strong..

Whats the use of having wp if they will eventually embrace the same policies as pap, perhaps with slight revisions.. Look at the lib dems in uk, voters are rejecting them at the ballot box.. The labour party will probably get a lot of the lib dem's votes and go on to form the next government..

If wp does not stand up to pap, i rather vote pap.. I agree with goh meng seng on this following point.. If slyvia, yaw and low want to use the anti pap momentum to get more seats in parliament and eventually form a govt with pap with their top people being offered cabinet posts, then please tell the voters, we are not dumb..

Chen show mao recently compares wp to wei zheng.. Historically, wei zheng served the enemy.. Tang taizhong killed his brothers at xuanwumen and upsurped the throne.. And wei zheng was the teacher of li jiancheng(crown prince) who was killed by li shimin... Pap is no tang dynasty although both headed by a lee.. Pm is no li shimin.. I think the electorate is not sophisticated enough to understand wp's real intentions.. That is to be the side kick of pap and eventualli bed them..

I can tell you guys empirically that if wp and low were as much of a threat as jbj and francis, low would not be allowed to survive for so long, let along wrestle a grc from them..

fark q chee soon juan ibs


WP need need to become PAP lite... because most voters are PAP-lite...

once PAP are kick out ..... WP can implement their own socialist policies ... MUAHAHAHAHA

 

[brocoli]

Dear Scroo

GMS sigh at time level headed in all other issues business included loses his head when it comes to politics. He see's himself as a master puppet manipulator when a. he no longer has any puppets and b. He no longer pulls what ever strings he had and c. The dynamics of the game has shifted drastically in the WP's favor.

His not so disguised concern is about the WP pushing its weight into Tampines and Marine Parade before GE 2016 thus shutting out NSP entirely out of the East for the next two electoral cycles. Its obvious in his other speculations in other threads. That said and done I as a WP well small time member would probably not look kindly on my party pushing other similarly small parties around before GE 2016, however after GE 2016 I would argue all bets are off in that area and if there are negotiations any other party would be in a weaker position from the start.

His attempts to elicit or push for a discussion on Pritams statements however speculative are a reflection of his belief in his strategy for Tan Kin Lian. That the true opposition without being tainted by any association with the PAP stands a better chance of wining in a three cornered fight.



Locke

we cant have NSP stopping the growth of a 2 party parliamentary system by wasting voters' votes in Marine Parade and Tampines in 2016

the alternative to a 2 party parliamentary system ....is not multi party democracy but 1 party rule

Ling How Doong need to lost deposit, TJS need to go jiak sai.. only when the other small parties die and stop draggin down the standard of the Opp, can we have a 2 party parliamentary system with effective check and balance

Ah Yaw Is a genius .....

 

[Annoyed]

Hear hear! Some of the arguments made in the immediate aftermath of Pritam's statement, and repeated here again, only serve to prove your point.

most Singaporeans do not know the meaning of a an academic discussion even if it bit them in the face.

 

[Ramseth]

To be fair, we should not and cannot deprive or denegrade GMS right to expression of political opinions just because he has lost the election. Not all of his opinions may be right but I'm equally sure not all are wrong. Look at the matter, not look at who says it. It doesn't matter who says it. It's the matter that matters, not the messenger.

 

[kingrant]

What anybody and everybody needs to know is that once an Opp party is called upon to form a coalition govt, its role, tactics and modus operandi must change or evolve, not to make the other look better, altho it may turn out that way; but if it turns out that way, then it must make itself look and come out even better smelling like a rose, so that it becomes the next victor in the next election. There is never a permanent role or position in politics. Smart shrewd politicians will realise that. people who are sticklers to moral high grounds and high falutin' principles might as well join the Holy Order. There is also never a permanent enemy, or friend and ally, in survivor politics.

One good example was Hitler. Tho elected finally to the Reichstag, his Nazi party was a minority, and he had to form a coalition with the Social Democrats, the Communists etc. Step by step, he eliminated the Communists (which he loathed) by killing them off, by first blaming the Reichstag fire on them and eventually forced Hindenberg to declare a rule by decree, which he seized and the rest was history. I am not saying WP shld do that, altho the PAP sounded very much like the Nazi party, now that we are speaking.

 

[3_M]

In politics there are no eternal friend or foe. Can GMS tell us with 100% certainty that a coalition with PAP is off the card for nsp in the future to come? What I understand is pritam is not ruling out anything when a question was asked and what GMS is doing is to manipulate people's selective perception into thinking that WP is working on forming a coalition gov with PAP.

 

[steffychun]

Sneering Tree has accused me of taking cheap shot at Pritam for saying that he is fine with PAP-WP Coalition but let me put the record straight, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG for Pritam to believe in having PAP-WP coalition government in the event of hung parliament.

In fact, I would have more respect to Pritam if he had stuck to his stand and not hide behind some "academic exercise" excuse. And I believe within WP, there are many members who would agree with him that it would be good for WP to go into a PAP-WP coalition in the event of hung parliament.

The only reason why people would see this as a "taboo" subject is that they think if such idea is to be let out too early, they might lose the hardcore anti-PAP votes. But seriously, if you have such views, political views, you should put it up upfront and let voters examine them thoroughly. Politicians should have such intellectual integrity and courage to do that and try to convince voters why this idea is the best approach for the country, instead of hiding it and try to "con votes".

Put it in simple terms, WP has maintained a far distance from other opposition parties, only appearing for electoral negotiations just after the boundary is out. There are practically no interactions whatsoever on policy matters and such. Of course, from NSP perspective, WP has elbowed its way into Moulmein Kallang and would most probably to do it again at Tampines. Under such circumstances, would it be possible for WP to have a coalition with any other opposition parties at all? I seriously doubt so. Unless there is another new upcoming opposition party with Dr Tan CB as figure head.

If there is a hung parliament with a third or even forth party having seats in parliament, I do not think any of the other opposition parties would be able to form any coalition government on their own. They would either do it with PAP or WP. The only other alternative is for WP to go into coalition with PAP.

The obvious result would most probably be PAP-WP coalition. Thus, technically speaking, it is not wrong for Pritam to say that preference would be a PAP-WP coalition. There are many reason to have such a coalition. The most important reason is for transitional stability from one dominant party rule to multiple party rule. For such transition to be stable, the nation would need the coalition to have at least some ruling experiences. Well, the hardcore anti-PAP voters may not buy that but the middle ground voters might support that.

Whatever it is, I think Pritam is entitled to his rational view and he should stand firm on his belief. For people like Sneering Tree to suggest that by bringing up Pritam's political stand is like taking a pot shot or cheap shot at him or WP, it is truly an insult to Pritam's intellectual conclusion and political belief.

Goh Meng Seng

Coalition is an ugly word. Look at the UK and exclude European nations. Coalition governments don't survive well especially in times of economic downturn.

 

[scroobal]

He keeps this up and he will be in the hall of fame with Sebastian and Seow Khee Leng as friends of the PAP.

No matter how he argues, he has not earned the spurs. Start small, work on a GLC or SMC, get into parliament. Working on Pritam or the WP for what ever reason is not going to cut it with the electorate.

Dear Scroo

GMS sigh at time level headed in all other issues business included loses his head when it comes to politics. He see's himself as a master puppet manipulator when a. he no longer has any puppets and b. He no longer pulls what ever strings he had and c. The dynamics of the game has shifted drastically in the WP's favor.

His not so disguised concern is about the WP pushing its weight into Tampines and Marine Parade before GE 2016 thus shutting out NSP entirely out of the East for the next two electoral cycles. Its obvious in his other speculations in other threads. That said and done I as a WP well small time member would probably not look kindly on my party pushing other similarly small parties around before GE 2016, however after GE 2016 I would argue all bets are off in that area and if there are negotiations any other party would be in a weaker position from the start.

His attempts to elicit or push for a discussion on Pritams statements however speculative are a reflection of his belief in his strategy for Tan Kin Lian. That the true opposition without being tainted by any association with the PAP stands a better chance of wining in a three cornered fight.



Locke