Pre Trial Conference

[busdriver111]

Sharin,

1. I don't quite understand what you mean by "volunteer" lawyer. How did you get to know him? Was it some free legal clinic? If so, please note that lawyers running free legal clinics are note allowed to handle the cases from the clinic. Law Soc rules prohibit the lawyer from even giving out his name card during such clinics.

2. It seems that you are now most worried about the bill. Ask your brother's lawyer to give you estimated charges. For criminal charges, it should include fees :
(a) for attending all the mentions and PTCs;
(b) for making representations;
(c) for pleading in mitigation; and
(d) for trial. This is normally on a per day basis.
Some lawyers may quote on a per hour basis, but for criminal matters, usually only the big firms do that.

3. It is not too late to make representations at PTC stage. In fact representations can be sent to the AG's at anytime so long as the guilty plea has not been entered.

But since your brother has a lawyer, the representations should be done by him. Get your brother to instruct his lawyer to make the reps. If you are the one who engaged the lawyer, you can give these instructions. Did you or your brother sign a warrant to act?

4. As for which DPP to write to and all other such details, leave it to your brother's lawyer. Reps do not make reference to which DPP, but by the case numbers, eg. DAC 12301 to 12306 of 2010, and the next mention/PTC date.

5. The Attorney-general and the Public Prosecutor are actually the same person, performing the same function. All reps are addressed to the Honourable Public Prosecutor. The present AG/PP is Mr Sundaresh Menon. DPPs are his deputies for carrying out prosecutions. When the same DPPs are performing duties relating to non-criminal matters, they are known as state counsel.

 

[busdriver111]

Ramseth / Scroobal,

This is what I think. Please do correct me where I err. Ramseth, from your experience as an ex police officer. Scroobal, I don't what you do but from the knowledge revealed in your messages, you must be someone in the legal profession.

1. When an FIR is first received by the police, and an offence is revealed, investigations begin and an IP has to be open in the station.

2. During investigations, statements will be taken from witnesses as well as the potential accused person. If investigations show sufficient evidence to prefer charges, the cautioned (short) statement will be taken from the accused and the IP sent to AGC. I think this is what Ramseth means by station charge.

3. At the AGC, the IP will be assigned to a DPP, who reviews the IP and decides whether to proceed with the charges. This is normally in accordance with the recommendations of the IO. I think this is why Ramseth says the plea bargaining starts in the IO's office.

4. However, the ultimate decision lies with AGC. DPPs sometimes do go against the IO's recommendations. Which is why I said station has to confer with AGC on the charges.

5. The accused is brought into custody (if he isn't already) and he is arraigned in court 26 and formally charged. Traffic and some less serious offences (eg gambling, MACs) go to Court 21 and 23 respectively. This is the first mention.

6. During the first mention, the accused if not represented, may ask for time to engage a lawyer. One week is normally given.

7. If he is represented, his laywer may either ask for an adjournment for another mention in Ct 26, in order to apply for statements and make representations.

8. Or he may ask for a PTC date straight away. Technically, if he does so, he is signalling to the court and the prosecution that he intends to claim trial. He is asking for a conference with the court and prosecution before trial.

9. Some cases (eg. CCMS cases and fast track cases where a foreigner is involved) get moved to court 17 directly from 26. The PTC date given will be very early, just one week from the first mention.

10. Representations can be made by the accused or his counsel at anytime during the proceedings. Representations in criminal proceedings are somewhat the equivalent of Order 22A offers to settle in civil suits.

That's understanding of the criminal justice system from the perspective of a bus driver. Ramseth / Scroobal, correct or not?

 

[sharin75]

Sharin,

1. I don't quite understand what you mean by "volunteer" lawyer. How did you get to know him? Was it some free legal clinic? If so, please note that lawyers running free legal clinics are note allowed to handle the cases from the clinic. Law Soc rules prohibit the lawyer from even giving out his name card during such clinics.

2. It seems that you are now most worried about the bill. Ask your brother's lawyer to give you estimated charges. For criminal charges, it should include fees :
(a) for attending all the mentions and PTCs;
(b) for making representations;
(c) for pleading in mitigation; and
(d) for trial. This is normally on a per day basis.
Some lawyers may quote on a per hour basis, but for criminal matters, usually only the big firms do that.

3. It is not too late to make representations at PTC stage. In fact representations can be sent to the AG's at anytime so long as the guilty plea has not been entered.

But since your brother has a lawyer, the representations should be done by him. Get your brother to instruct his lawyer to make the reps. If you are the one who engaged the lawyer, you can give these instructions. Did you or your brother sign a warrant to act?

4. As for which DPP to write to and all other such details, leave it to your brother's lawyer. Reps do not make reference to which DPP, but by the case numbers, eg. DAC 12301 to 12306 of 2010, and the next mention/PTC date.

5. The Attorney-general and the Public Prosecutor are actually the same person, performing the same function. All reps are addressed to the Honourable Public Prosecutor. The present AG/PP is Mr Sundaresh Menon. DPPs are his deputies for carrying out prosecutions. When the same DPPs are performing duties relating to non-criminal matters, they are known as state counsel.

Bro busdriver,

Let's not go into how my bro got to know the "volunteer" lawyer.

Now, my bro confirmed that he did not sign any "warrant to act". Or place any deposit or pay any cents to the lawyer so far.
I have not even met the lawyer (in person) before! Unfortunately, I have to look after my bro cos he surely dont have money to pay! I have only 1 blood related brother!

Can a lawyer represent the accused without "warrant to act"? But any case, I think I should talk personally to the lawyer (since I will be paying), ask what is he going to do and keep us updated of the case. Right? I think it makes more sense.

Judging from the fees you listed, I don't think he will charge extra for "consultation" to find out the status of the case right?

But from experience, how much is the minimum for criminal defence cases?

I need set aside year end bonus for that! Plus the potential fine imposed if convicted! :(

@$#%%$&^%*%^

Now is 1135pm @ 28th Oct

 

[busdriver111]

Sharin,

1. A lawyer can represent a client without obtaining a warrant to act. But it would be foolhardy. It just means that the contract between the lawyer and the client is just made orally or by conduct (eg. client does not object when lawyer tells the court that he is representing this person), and not in writing.

2. Yes, please talk to the lawyer and let him explain everything to you, including how he intends to conduct the proceedings, ie. making reps or not, what he will be asking for in the reps (for all the charges to be dropped, or some to be dropped, or reduced to another section, going to PG or claim trial). Also ask him about the fees.

3. Whether he charges for consultation depends on what kind of fee structure he uses and the levels he quotes. I described more than one example. Eventually, one possible clue to whether they will charge for consultation, is whether his firm is a big international firm that occupies entire floors of some posh building, or a 2-man outfit sharing office with other firms in Chinatown. But you don't have to guess, ask!

4. It is hard to tell you what is the minimum. It all depends on how many mentions and PTC the lawyer has to attend, how times he has to make representations, how complex the issues and how serious the offences.

Further, there is a wide range of fees (and quality of work) in the market. There are some who charge $50 for each mention and $500 for representations, but the reps only regurgitate the charges preferred and the actual representations are essentially 2-liners.

Then there are some who charge a fixed fee ($3k to 10k, for sub-court cases - this can vary depending on the lawyer and the type of charges faced) to do all the mentions and PTCs and make the reps, but the quality of the work is very different.

5. Since the fees is a major concern, get the information from the horse's mouth. Ask your brother's lawyer. Even better, get him to commit it in writing.

All the best.

 

[scroobal]

1 and 2 is correct. No need to go to AG for charging in court. There are exceptions where certain charges must have prior sanction from AG to charge in court. 99.9% of cases goes straight to court with no AG involvement. If the accused pleads guilty, AG will never ever sight the case and it will not appear in their records, only police and court records.

If there is a prima facie case and the appropriate charge is not to be preferred. Cases such as students and where a lesser charge or warning is appropriate, that decision can only be made by DPP from AGC. IO makes the recommendation, must be supported by supervisor before file is referred to DPP. Even the CP or the Minister cannot intervene.

The rest of the steps are ok.

Ramseth / Scroobal,

This is what I think. Please do correct me where I err. Ramseth, from your experience as an ex police officer. Scroobal, I don't what you do but from the knowledge revealed in your messages, you must be someone in the legal profession.

1. When an FIR is first received by the police, and an offence is revealed, investigations begin and an IP has to be open in the station.

2. During investigations, statements will be taken from witnesses as well as the potential accused person. If investigations show sufficient evidence to prefer charges, the cautioned (short) statement will be taken from the accused and the IP sent to AGC. I think this is what Ramseth means by station charge.

3. At the AGC, the IP will be assigned to a DPP, who reviews the IP and decides whether to proceed with the charges. This is normally in accordance with the recommendations of the IO. I think this is why Ramseth says the plea bargaining starts in the IO's office.

4. However, the ultimate decision lies with AGC. DPPs sometimes do go against the IO's recommendations. Which is why I said station has to confer with AGC on the charges.

5. The accused is brought into custody (if he isn't already) and he is arraigned in court 26 and formally charged. Traffic and some less serious offences (eg gambling, MACs) go to Court 21 and 23 respectively. This is the first mention.

6. During the first mention, the accused if not represented, may ask for time to engage a lawyer. One week is normally given.

7. If he is represented, his laywer may either ask for an adjournment for another mention in Ct 26, in order to apply for statements and make representations.

8. Or he may ask for a PTC date straight away. Technically, if he does so, he is signalling to the court and the prosecution that he intends to claim trial. He is asking for a conference with the court and prosecution before trial.

9. Some cases (eg. CCMS cases and fast track cases where a foreigner is involved) get moved to court 17 directly from 26. The PTC date given will be very early, just one week from the first mention.

10. Representations can be made by the accused or his counsel at anytime during the proceedings. Representations in criminal proceedings are somewhat the equivalent of Order 22A offers to settle in civil suits.

That's understanding of the criminal justice system from the perspective of a bus driver. Ramseth / Scroobal, correct or not?

 

[sharin75]

If there is a prima facie case and the appropriate charge is not to be preferred.

Bro,

Can explain abit on the above? If appropriate charge is not preferred, they still charge? Any chance to get "dropped" if appeal through representation?

 

[busdriver111]

Bro,

Can explain abit on the above? If appropriate charge is not preferred, they still charge? Any chance to get "dropped" if appeal through representation?

Prima facie means at first appearance. Prefer a charge means to bring a charge against someone. Includes drafting the charge itself, filing it with the court and AGC, etc.

Once a charge is read out to the accused in open court, this is called an arraignment. For all intents and purposes, this is officially the starting point.

Representations usually are made only after this starting point.

So if the charge is not preferred, then there is nothing to "drop".

 

[busdriver111]

1 and 2 is correct. No need to go to AG for charging in court. There are exceptions where certain charges must have prior sanction from AG to charge in court. 99.9% of cases goes straight to court with no AG involvement. If the accused pleads guilty, AG will never ever sight the case and it will not appear in their records, only police and court records.

If there is a prima facie case and the appropriate charge is not to be preferred. Cases such as students and where a lesser charge or warning is appropriate, that decision can only be made by DPP from AGC. IO makes the recommendation, must be supported by supervisor before file is referred to DPP. Even the CP or the Minister cannot intervene.

The rest of the steps are ok.

I don't quite understand what you are saying. How can 99.9% of cases go straight to court with no AG involvement?

All criminal charges brought by the state, whether it is initiated by the Police, the LTA, Immigration, Customs, CNB, CAD, CPIB, MOM, are all brought in the name of the Public Prosecutor. That is why all criminal cases brought by the state are cited "PP v Name of Accused".

So how can records of a case be kept by the police and the courts, and not by AGC? Apart from the fact that mentions in 26, 21 and 23 are conducted by prosecutors from the CID Prosecution branch, and that police prosecutors do conduct trials for some of the minor offences, there is officially no real relationship between the courts and the police, so far as each case is concerned.

The police is not one of the parties in the criminal case. The PP is. The police cannot be the prosecutor in order to fulfill a judicial ideal that the investigative and accusatory functions should be kept separate.

 

[sharin75]

Prima facie means at first appearance. Prefer a charge means to bring a charge against someone. Includes drafting the charge itself, filing it with the court and AGC, etc.

Once a charge is read out to the accused in open court, this is called an arraignment. For all intents and purposes, this is officially the starting point.

Representations usually are made only after this starting point.

So if the charge is not preferred, then there is nothing to "drop".

Thanks bro for the clarification.

Now we are in midst of PTC, so the 6 charges are considered "preferred" right? If then, why is mentioned that proceed 3, TIC 3?

Now that they are "preferred", the defence is able to raise some reasonable doubts that rendered the charges "not stand", can we assume AP will drop charges?

What happen to the accused then? Free man? In record, considered a criminal? In some employment application, the column where they ask if any criminal charges or convict, then my bro is considered as one?

If yes, I think he can forget abt getting any jobs in future..:(

By the way, if there's a chance of dropping the charges due to some reasonable doubts, would the AP calls further investigation by Police and some other charges are put forward?

Sorry for asking some funny questions.

But all this is in our heads right now...

 

[busdriver111]

Yes, since it's at PTC stage, your brother has been charged.

This mention about 3 to stand and 3 TIC = the prosecution's offer. In other words, prosecution is offering to proceed only with 3 charges, and not the remaining 3. The remaining 3 will be taken into consideration when the court sentences your brother for the first 3 charges.

However, the condition of this offer is that your brother pleads guilty to the 3 charges. If he decides to claim trial, prosecution will proceed with all 6 charges.

In such a situation, the defence counsel may want to make reps to have another charge TIC. ie, proceed only with 2 charges. Especially so if the charges carry custodial sentences. This is because the Criminal Procedure Code stipulates that where a person is convicted of 3 or more charges and sentenced to imprisonment for all 3 (in one sitting), the imprisonment terms of at least 2 charges must run consecutively.

If there are facts with can raise reasonable doubt, please discuss with the lawyer quickly and have him make representations to the prosecution.

If prosecution drops all charges, there are 2 possibilities : DATA or DNAQ.

DATA means discharge not amounting to acquittal. The charges will not proceed, but the prosecution can resurrect the charges in the future. They seldom do resurrrect charges.

DNAQ = discharge amounting to an acquittal. This one has the effect of the court finding the defendant NOT guilty. The charges cannot be resurrected in the future. Game over.

Whether it is DATA or DNAQ, your brother is not a criminal. There is no conviction whatsoever, and there is no entry made with the Criminal Records Office. So he can tick "no" in his employment application.

If there are facts that may raise reasonable doubt, and this is brought to prosecution's attention in representations, the prosecution will try to ascertain the facts with the police. This may include calling for further investigations (eg. police to get further statements from witnesses). Further or different charges may be brought if and only if these further investigations uncover evidence or further or different offences committed.

I notice you mentioned AP in your message. I think you are referring to APP - Assistant Public Prosecutor. These are the most junior in the PP's office. Usually not law-qualified.

 

[simonsoh]

The police is not one of the parties in the criminal case. The PP is. The police cannot be the prosecutor in order to fulfill a judicial ideal that the investigative and accusatory functions should be kept separate.

hmm.. I thought i heard the term Police Prosecutor before...

 

[sharin75]

I notice you mentioned AP in your message. I think you are referring to APP - Assistant Public Prosecutor. These are the most junior in the PP's office. Usually not law-qualified.

Bro,
I assumed only the AP has the power to call for further investigation by police (presumably recommended by DPP) to established some facts made by our representation.

If there are facts that may raise reasonable doubt, and this is brought to prosecution's attention in representations, the prosecution will try to ascertain the facts with the police. This may include calling for further investigations (eg. police to get further statements from witnesses). Further or different charges may be brought if and only if these further investigations uncover evidence or further or different offences committed.

However, by your explanation above, it appears that doing representation may invite additional charges (assumming) the Police "die die" want to find "fault". No offence meant for any police officer (or ex-police officers), but that's the impression I get. Sorry again.

But if don't do any representation, we either have to plead guilty and accept the offer (proceed 3, TIC 3). Otherwise, we have to claim trial.

It's very tricky for us now.

If the police "buay song" we raised some reasonable doubts, resulting them to have to re-investigate, then they may not be so good to offer any TIC again. Am I right? Wah Wah....

In such a situation, the defence counsel may want to make reps to have another charge TIC. ie, proceed only with 2 charges. Especially so if the charges carry custodial sentences. This is because the Criminal Procedure Code stipulates that where a person is convicted of 3 or more charges and sentenced to imprisonment for all 3 (in one sitting), the imprisonment terms of at least 2 charges must run consecutively.

A.If the representation to drop ALL charges Fails:
1. Assuming no further charges being brought against my bro after further investigation by the police.
Can we still continue to write another representation to reduce to 2 charges instead of 3?
Then any imprisonment terms can run concurrently. Is my understanding correct? What about fines? Any "concurrent" fines? Or must be "consecutive"? All the fines add up?

2. Assuming the police add more charges after further investigation
Then chances of TIC virtually "zero" am I right? And the DPP may proceed with all the 6 plus all new additional charges without any TIC. I think this assumption is reasonable?
Then any imprisonment terms would be consecutive.All the fines add up?


B.If the representation to drop ALL charges Successful:
1. Assuming no further charges being brought against my bro after further investigation by the police.
My bro is a free man.

2. Assuming the police add more charges after further investigation
Then depending on the nature of the charges, my bro may be charged differently and have different TIC. Correct?
If this is correct, then I only have one word to say....they are out to nail my bro and must see him "die". Someone may not agree, but that's how I feel.

I guess we have to be extra careful. Any wrong step will get my bro into different hot soup altogether.

Bro, is my analysis correct?

One last thing, for whatever reason if the state found my bro guilty, besides paying the fine and defence lawyer fees, do we need to pay any court fees? PTC fees etc? In short, beside the fine and lawyer fees, no need to pay anybody anymore correct?

 

[scroobal]

PP in name only via fiat, similar to crown, regina, rex etc. AG has no records only statistics except for those files referred to AGC. Where DPP from AGC is present in court, the file has gone to them for prosecution. The bulk of the cases do not.

Those cases that are serious or complicated and where accused claims trial, it turned over to DPP.

The accusatory and investigation functions do not follow similar distinction as
normal institutions of state such as legislative, executive and judiciary etc. We however do not go to the French extreme where the magistrate supervises Police investigation. The AG and DPP has every right to supervise investigation and they have done so in the past and continue to do so especially protracted investigations. If you retrieve Investigation Papers from the Pulay Senang and the Sunny Ang cases, you will see Francis Seow's has literarily supervised the investigation.

Glen Knight did the same for the MCA Chairman over the stock exchange manipulation.

The reason they began introducing legally qualified DPP to cover the role of Police Prosecutors from CID were over professional competence and to raise the bar.

I don't quite understand what you are saying. How can 99.9% of cases go straight to court with no AG involvement?

All criminal charges brought by the state, whether it is initiated by the Police, the LTA, Immigration, Customs, CNB, CAD, CPIB, MOM, are all brought in the name of the Public Prosecutor. That is why all criminal cases brought by the state are cited "PP v Name of Accused".

So how can records of a case be kept by the police and the courts, and not by AGC? Apart from the fact that mentions in 26, 21 and 23 are conducted by prosecutors from the CID Prosecution branch, and that police prosecutors do conduct trials for some of the minor offences, there is officially no real relationship between the courts and the police, so far as each case is concerned.

The police is not one of the parties in the criminal case. The PP is. The police cannot be the prosecutor in order to fulfill a judicial ideal that the investigative and accusatory functions should be kept separate.

 

[scroobal]

Bro, by the way thanks for stepping in and helping our forummer in time of need. Your patience in explaining the details are appreciated. From time to time we have good chaps that come in to provide guidance and you are certainly one.

I know for a fact, many lawyers don't bother to explain to the extent that you have and they were paid for their services.

Yes, since it's at PTC stage, your brother has been charged.

 

[scroobal]

Minor correction, the explanation is vice versa. Its likely to be DNAQ.

DATA means discharge not amounting to acquittal. The charges will not proceed, but the prosecution can resurrect the charges in the future. They seldom do resurrrect charges.

DNAQ = discharge amounting to an acquittal. This one has the effect of the court finding the defendant NOT guilty. The charges cannot be resurrected in the future. Game over.
.

 

[scroobal]

Its best to ask your brother what extactly he did and do so away from the rest of the family. The accused will seldom disclose his full culpability to his own family as he does not want to hurt them. And outsiders will never raise the matter with the family or provide details because it is sensitive. The family is usually the least informed in the whole neighbourhood.

I am saying this because to be effective in your representation, you have to put one spin and not multiple spins.

If you raise a doubt on the investigation or the competency of the investigation, AG will inevitably reject the representation and send it for trial. The trial is actually there for the accused to fight false or inappropriate allegations (charges) brought by the Police. Its is also an opportunity to show the incompetency of the Police amongst other things. The AG is not the place to arbitrate on the case and it was never meant to be.

Significant material facts that were not investigated properly and which is highlighted by your representation has to be "significant" and "material". Here are some examples;
1) My brother was never in the country when the incident occurred
2) The person that my brother is said to have cheated was dead long before the said incident.
3) My brother was diagnosed as impotent after a traffic accident and therefore could not have raped her

In essence, unless there significant and or material defect in the investigation, representation is basically to plea bargain or to seek mercy by providing some good reasons why he should not bear the full brunt of the law.

Bro,
I assumed only the AP has the power to call for further investigation by police (presumably recommended by DPP) to established some facts made by our representation.
?

 

[sharin75]

I am saying this because to be effective in your representation, you have to put one spin and not multiple spins.

If you raise a doubt on the investigation or the competency of the investigation, AG will inevitably reject the representation and send it for trial. The trial is actually there for the accused to fight false or inappropriate allegations (charges) brought by the Police. Its is also an opportunity to show the incompetency of the Police amongst other things. The AG is not the place to arbitrate on the case and it was never meant to be.

In essence, unless there significant and or material defect in the investigation, representation is basically to plea bargain or to seek mercy by providing some good reasons why he should not bear the full brunt of the law.

Bro,

Then it's slightly different than what busdriver's version.

You meant representation basically "plea bargain" to mitigate the charges....

You are saying the AG will either go trial (if the representation did raise a reasonable doubt) and let the judge decide if the accused should be acquited based on "significant" and "material" facts raised by accused.

Or they will accept plea from the accused. That is to accept "proceed 3 and TIC 3".

No way to get a "DATA" or "DNAQ" without going through a trial.

In short, die die will have to go trial in order to be acquited.

Also, die die have to face few days trial and pay all the legal fees.

Must prepare $$$....

Am I correct based on your posting above? Thanks for the clarification.

 

[busdriver111]

hmm.. I thought i heard the term Police Prosecutor before...

Yes and you heard correctly. There is a prosecution branch in the police and officers from there do the mentions in court 26, 21 and 23. They also conduct trials on behalf of the prosecution for some minor offences such as gambling.

However, all state prosecutions are brought in the name of the Public Prosecutor. In other words, these police prosecutors are representing the PP when doing their work.

 

[busdriver111]

Bro,
I assumed only the AP has the power to call for further investigation by police (presumably recommended by DPP) to established some facts made by our representation.



However, by your explanation above, it appears that doing representation may invite additional charges (assumming) the Police "die die" want to find "fault". No offence meant for any police officer (or ex-police officers), but that's the impression I get. Sorry again.

But if don't do any representation, we either have to plead guilty and accept the offer (proceed 3, TIC 3). Otherwise, we have to claim trial.

It's very tricky for us now.

If the police "buay song" we raised some reasonable doubts, resulting them to have to re-investigate, then they may not be so good to offer any TIC again. Am I right? Wah Wah....





A.If the representation to drop ALL charges Fails:
1. Assuming no further charges being brought against my bro after further investigation by the police.
Can we still continue to write another representation to reduce to 2 charges instead of 3?
Then any imprisonment terms can run concurrently. Is my understanding correct? What about fines? Any "concurrent" fines? Or must be "consecutive"? All the fines add up?

2. Assuming the police add more charges after further investigation
Then chances of TIC virtually "zero" am I right? And the DPP may proceed with all the 6 plus all new additional charges without any TIC. I think this assumption is reasonable?
Then any imprisonment terms would be consecutive.All the fines add up?


B.If the representation to drop ALL charges Successful:
1. Assuming no further charges being brought against my bro after further investigation by the police.
My bro is a free man.

2. Assuming the police add more charges after further investigation
Then depending on the nature of the charges, my bro may be charged differently and have different TIC. Correct?
If this is correct, then I only have one word to say....they are out to nail my bro and must see him "die". Someone may not agree, but that's how I feel.

I guess we have to be extra careful. Any wrong step will get my bro into different hot soup altogether.

Bro, is my analysis correct?

One last thing, for whatever reason if the state found my bro guilty, besides paying the fine and defence lawyer fees, do we need to pay any court fees? PTC fees etc? In short, beside the fine and lawyer fees, no need to pay anybody anymore correct?

1. Preferring new charges is only a technical possibility. If they do, it shows that their investigations now complete when they filed the present six. Seldom happens at this relatively late stage. Is there sometime not revealed or are you being paranoid? Why would the police die die want to nail him or frame him. Did he offend someone or what? The likelihood is negligible.

The police will not buay song that reasonable doubt has been raised in the representations. They are not that petty and they are too busy for that. If DPP says drop charges, even better for the IO because less work for him.

2. There are three options now :
(a) accept prosecution's offer and PG to 3 charges; OR
(b) make representations and raise your reasonable doubt; OR
(c) claim trial and face 6 charges.

Before a decision is made, your brother and/or you should have a thorough discussion with the lawyer. Let him assess the viability of your reasonable doubt defence.

Notwithstanding what Scroobal has stated, I am of the opinion that it is possible for all charges to be dropped after representations are made, and the accused person walks free after an open court mention to register the DATA or DNAQ. I have personally seen it happen before.

In other words, representations can be made to ask for all charges to be dropped, not just plea bargaining or reduction.

Whatever it is, don't take my word for it. Go and speak to the real professional representing your brother.

 

[Ramseth]

Yes and you heard correctly. There is a prosecution branch in the police and officers from there do the mentions in court 26, 21 and 23. They also conduct trials on behalf of the prosecution for some minor offences such as gambling.

However, all state prosecutions are brought in the name of the Public Prosecutor. In other words, these police prosecutors are representing the PP when doing their work.

Police prosecutor job ends at mention, plead guilty or not guilty. Plead guilty and the case ends with the sentence. Plead not guilty and claim trial, then public prosecutor from AGC takes over. The is usual for minor cases. That's why I say it's possible to settle it at the police station for a charge with a sentence you could afford. That's the fastest and cheapest way. However, for major cases, there's the possibility of no plea taken. That's not the same as pleaing not guilty. That's usually when a lawyer is already hired and questioning the magnitude of the charge.