Pope Francis: Evolution is real

[drifter]

It hardly needs to be said that the ignorant village atheist drifter cannot demonstrate that belief in God is irrational. Yet the moment that the atheist attempts to use logic to show that, he ends up first having to assume the existence of God in order for his argument to even get off the ground.

I'm surprise you can use " belief " to link up with rational
You do speak " volume "
belief
bɪˈliːf/
noun
1.
an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.
"his belief in extraterrestrial life"

 

[Frodo]

I'm surprise you can use " belief " to link up with rational
You do speak " volume "
belief
bɪˈliːf/
noun
1.
an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.
"his belief in extraterrestrial life"

Ummm....you are forgetting something.....as an ignorant village atheist you have to believe with all your heart, soul, and mind that the universe made itself from nothing, by nothing, and through nothing. Talk about being irrational!

 

[drifter]

Ummm....you are forgetting something.....as an ignorant village atheist you have to believe with all your heart, soul, and mind that the universe made itself from nothing, by nothing, and through nothing. Talk about being irrational!

Don't embarrass yourself further , who told you that the earth is make up of nothing ? You know what , you are the reason why stupid ppl exists

 

[Frodo]

Don't embarrass yourself further , who told you that the earth is make up of nothing ? You know what , you are the reason why stupid ppl exists

Theists exist, that's why atheists like you exist. And who you calling stupid? Oops, you just mocked and insulted yourself. Well done IVA

 

[drifter]

Theists exist, that's why atheists like you exist. And who you calling stupid? Oops, you just mocked and insulted yourself. Well done IVA

Whose am I calling stupid ? Of course I'm calling you stupid , need me to spell out your nick to make it more obvious ?

 

[Frodo]

Whose am I calling stupid ? Of course I'm calling you stupid , need me to spell out your nick to make it more obvious ?

Where's that "I'm with stupid" sign when I need it?

 

[drifter]

Where's that "I'm with stupid" sign when I need it?

You can look in between your bible story book pages ...

Proverbs 12:1 :

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.


See, don't need any proof

 

[drifter]

Blind sheep

Isaiah 55:8-9 ESV :

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[Frodo]

Blind sheep
G
Isaiah 55:8-9 ESV :

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Even dumberer IVA.

 

[drifter]

Even dumberer IVA.

That's the best you can go ? Let's see the evolution result of your jesus
[video=youtube;4iOKjDWmDdQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iOKjDWmDdQ&sns=em[/video]

 

[Frodo]

That's the best you can go ? Let's see the evolution result of your jesus
[video=youtube;4iOKjDWmDdQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iOKjDWmDdQ&sns=em[/video]

Don't flatter yourself, it doesn't need my best to respond to your low level rants. Empty vessels like you make the most spams on the forums.

 

[drifter]

Don't flatter yourself, it doesn't need my best to respond to your low level rants. Empty vessels like you make the most spams on the forums.

Yes , I spam this page with intelligent and logical post unlike you who spreads delusion which is deadly diseases , more fatal then Ebola

 

[Frodo]

Yes , I spam this page with intelligent and logical post unlike you who spreads delusion which is deadly diseases , more fatal then Ebola

Since this thread contains intelligent discussion with agora I shall not derail this thread with your nonsense. Shoo...be gone. Will troll you on other threads.

 

[drifter]

Since this thread contains intelligent discussion with agora I shall not derail this thread with your nonsense. Shoo...be gone. Will troll you on other threads.

Why let me lead you half way don't want to entertain me :(

 

[Frodo]

Why let me lead you half way don't want to entertain me :(

Butthurt IVA spotted! LOL!

Don't worry, there's more than you can handle in the other threads where your atheism is being trolled. Meanwhile, do keep this thread free from your nonsense and don't hijack further my good going dialogue with agoraphobic. Be a good boy. Play elsewhere.

 

[Agoraphobic]

I can simplify that statement, at least the way I see it is "We will never know in our lifetime the answers to those questions." Whether we will find or not in the future, I don't know, but we will keep searching.

Our moral values stem from our need to survive, to preserve ourselves (our genes?) and if it means cooperating with our fellow beings, we will. Which also means if it means to kill our fellow beings, we might. And also for the orderly function of the community we live in. What separates us from animals, is culture. In our cultures, we have also created religion, although that has seen a shift towards science, but not totally because there is one thing that science cannot do - that is, alter our conscience.

Cheers!

Is your agnosticism about the spiritual things a matter of "we DO not know" or "we CAN never know"? I mean, we have the Bible that tells us that Jesus KNOWS about what is going to happen when we die, and He has told us about it. So Jesus DO claim to know what will happen. What do you do with that information then? Or if you decide it is "we CAN never know", how do you know that? Or how can you know that we can never know? Your claim to knowing that is being challenged.

Whatever moral principles you choose to live by, it reflects the fact that there are objective moral values to which we can attest to. But just where do such moral values come from? Why are we obligated to act morally towards one another? What sets us apart from the animals? Again it must come from God, a moral Being who created us as moral beings, and only human beings are made in His image. That's the distinction between man and animals.

 

[Agoraphobic]

I started this thread not to target the Pope or his character/personality, but to highlight his statement which shows the papal authority giving consideration to another view which for most of its history has been on opposite of the church's view. Science and the church may be converging in some views which tore them apart and unfortunately got many scientists into their bad books, labelled as heretics. The modern Vatican is much more open to other views and where they are correct, have accepted them. In his position, the Pope has to be careful about his public statements because the Catholic organization encompasses a wide and diverse range of peoples, from the scientifically advanced North American and European countries to the somewhat ill-informed traiditional societies in Africa and some Asian countries which differ from each other in their outlook to life. He is not mad, but he is in a tough position.

Cheers!

Pope Francis must be mad! Has he not read Hebrew 4:12? God created Adam and Eve and we all are their descendants.

"All Scripture is inspired by God." Hebrew 4:12..................

 

[Frodo]

I can simplify that statement, at least the way I see it is "We will never know in our lifetime the answers to those questions." Whether we will find or not in the future, I don't know, but we will keep searching.

Our moral values stem from our need to survive, to preserve ourselves (our genes?) and if it means cooperating with our fellow beings, we will. Which also means if it means to kill our fellow beings, we might. And also for the orderly function of the community we live in. What separates us from animals, is culture. In our cultures, we have also created religion, although that has seen a shift towards science, but not totally because there is one thing that science cannot do - that is, alter our conscience.

Cheers!

But one can also be using "we will never know in our lifetime" as an EXCUSE not to consider what has been presented to him as arguments/case for God, isn't it? Since we only have this lifetime, it makes good sense to consider based on what we know rather than to delay or postpone belief based on what we don't know. In fact, that's what Pascal's Wager is all about too.

Evolutionary morality is what you are suggesting. But what you do not have is a mechanism for that. Not only that, you have also shown what is the logical outcome of such a theory of morality (killing others in order to survive), it is really no morality at all. To say that culture is what separates us from animals is to beg the question. How come we have cultural mores, but not animals? Once more evolutionism cannot account for such things at all. Thus the best answer, and the right answer, is that only humans are created in God's image. That's where we got our conscience from, God put it there. Unfortunately sin has affected our conscience too, but it is there, telling us that something is really wrong when we have done wrong.

 

[Frodo]

I started this thread not to target the Pope or his character/personality, but to highlight his statement which shows the papal authority giving consideration to another view which for most of its history has been on opposite of the church's view. Science and the church may be converging in some views which tore them apart and unfortunately got many scientists into their bad books, labelled as heretics. The modern Vatican is much more open to other views and where they are correct, have accepted them. In his position, the Pope has to be careful about his public statements because the Catholic organization encompasses a wide and diverse range of peoples, from the scientifically advanced North American and European countries to the somewhat ill-informed traiditional societies in Africa and some Asian countries which differ from each other in their outlook to life. He is not mad, but he is in a tough position.

Cheers!

The idea that science and religion has been at loggerheads for centuries is a myth that has been swallowed whole by many people who are ignorant of those who has worked hard to peddle this lie. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_thesis

The first people who opposed Darwin were the scientists, not Rome. Just as it was error for the church to marry itself to the Ptolemaic/Aristotelic science of the day, it is wrong for it to marry itself to the naturalism/evolutionism paradigm of today. http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/retrograde/aristotle.html

 

[Agoraphobic]

It is not an excuse, it is a reason, an explanation of the state of things. I am not saying there is NO god if we use the term God to describe the being(s) that formulated our existence, all I am saying is that we are still investigating, searching. And to accept this god as it was described by the bible is not questioning a lot of things/faults with this "creator" (eg. why are some bloke born defective, albino, etc.) And if this God is compassionate, there sure is a lot of evil on this planet!

Evolutionary morality, the way I see it is that humanity is at least growing in our species. We have culture (or at least some of us do) is because we are more enlightened. We can still be savage and violent in our ways, but at least when times are good, we do share. We are discovering more and more with the passage of time, understanding world we live in. Through this knowledge, we overcome famine, disease, and shelter ourselves from calamities, God doesn't provide these, we have to depend on ourselves.

Our conscience, it's evolving. Naturally, we had less compassion/care during our days as wanderer gatherers, today as city folk, we have lost a lot of that brutishness. If God put it in us, it was this brutishness he put, not morality.

Cheers!

But one can also be using "we will never know in our lifetime" as an EXCUSE not to consider what has been presented to him as arguments/case for God, isn't it? Since we only have this lifetime, it makes good sense to consider based on what we know rather than to delay or postpone belief based on what we don't know. In fact, that's what Pascal's Wager is all about too.

Evolutionary morality is what you are suggesting. But what you do not have is a mechanism for that. Not only that, you have also shown what is the logical outcome of such a theory of morality (killing others in order to survive), it is really no morality at all. To say that culture is what separates us from animals is to beg the question. How come we have cultural mores, but not animals? Once more evolutionism cannot account for such things at all. Thus the best answer, and the right answer, is that only humans are created in God's image. That's where we got our conscience from, God put it there. Unfortunately sin has affected our conscience too, but it is there, telling us that something is really wrong when we have done wrong.