Penalty for acquiring another passport

[Trout]

Woo, nice, N.Korea, even more siao than me, hahaha.

Havana is now very touristy ( I went with a couple of friends, flew from Toronto, spent around $1000 CAD total for 8 days there.)...went down to see their 'green revolution', after watching a documentary on How Cuba survived Peak Oil and getting interested about the place. Actually Singapore can learn alot from there now, particularly how global trade has virtually stagnated...

The general tourist area is very touristy, but then you realised the locals are getting paid like shit and making miserable wages if they don't work in the tourism related areas and the govt tries its best to segregate the non-tourism workers from the tourists...heck, they even have 2 different currencies within Cuba, one for the local folks and one for the tourists - CUC (for tourists only) & CUP(for cubans only)

Would love to get my hands on the CUP though, hehehe, everything in Cuba instantly becomes cheaper if you can buy stuff in CUP, as the real locals vendors take only CUP, the tourist trap places are the only places that take CUC, but the $$ exchanger there only allows you to change for CUC and the price ends up being similar to prices of stuff in US and Canada if you buy stuff using CUC.

Might be meeting my Dad in Moscow for a business trip year-end, and maybe go on my own to Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan after I finish the biz trip with him. 'Roots-finding' trip, so as to speak...;-)

I agree with Jim Rogers on the need to see the world firsthand to understand the trends. Unlike him, my gut feeling is different, and I have my bets elsewhere, though I have some hedges in China.

Cheers,
Trout

Looks like you have been to some pretty diverse interesting places Bro...what was Havana like?

Oh and you are right about the Singgie passport thinggy...I went to North Korea and then shortly after that had to visit the States, also no problems with US Immigration

 

[ashjaw]

hi trout, I'm really very envious of you... get to explore these places !!!

This thread has been very educational for me, thanks guys for your inputs!!!

 

[neddy]

Singapore passport one of the best passports to have - clears you through customs easy. I know of no other passports which can get you into Iran, Armenia, Georgia, Azeribaijian, Nagorno-Karabakh, Cuba and then into USA with no questions asked. Of coz, you must done nothing wrong as well.

Cheers,
Trout

When I went on my Trans-Siberian trip many years ago, I got detained at the Russian border because of the Singapore passport. Why is a Chinese travelling on an unknown passport.

Also, when I travelled from Germany to Austria, I was kicked of the train by Czech border guard because Singapore passport holder need a Transit visa to pass through (short cut) to Wien whereas Malaysian passport holders don't.

Finally, I was unable to go into Damascus because as a Singapore passport holder, I sympathise with Occupied Palestine (what Syrians called Israel) I have to stay 21 days in Amman before making another attempt. I slipped some US$ bills into the passport and it worked.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Our very own Tom Friedman eh, cool

About N Korea, was in Pyongyang and Kaesong...quite an interesting experience and not all that bad as potrayed by the international media...there is even a singapore law firm connection there...DPRK is trying to build up a presence of sorts in processing contracts, something similar to what PRC did, although it is very much in the infancy stage and subject to political winds of change.

Woo, nice, N.Korea, even more siao than me, hahaha.

I agree with Jim Rogers on the need to see the world firsthand to understand the trends. Unlike him, my gut feeling is different, and I have my bets elsewhere, though I have some hedges in China.

Cheers,
Trout

 

[Trout]

When I went on my Trans-Siberian trip many years ago, I got detained at the Russian border because of the Singapore passport. Why is a Chinese travelling on an unknown passport.

Also, when I travelled from Germany to Austria, I was kicked of the train by Czech border guard because Singapore passport holder need a Transit visa to pass through (short cut) to Wien whereas Malaysian passport holders don't.

Finally, I was unable to go into Damascus because as a Singapore passport holder, I sympathise with Occupied Palestine (what Syrians called Israel) I have to stay 21 days in Amman before making another attempt. I slipped some US$ bills into the passport and it worked.

Never had a problem in Russia and I was there 3 times in the last 3 yrs, nor Switzerland, Italy, Germany or Austria, was there just last summer to visit my brother.

Don't know Israel...never been there. I've been called a possible candidate for the anti-christ by a couple of my associates, so probably won't want to step in there in fear of triggering Armageddon. I love this world too much to see it end, hahaha.

Cheers,
Trout

 

[Trout]

When I went on my Trans-Siberian trip many years ago, I got detained at the Russian border because of the Singapore passport. Why is a Chinese travelling on an unknown passport.

Also, when I travelled from Germany to Austria, I was kicked of the train by Czech border guard because Singapore passport holder need a Transit visa to pass through (short cut) to Wien whereas Malaysian passport holders don't.

Finally, I was unable to go into Damascus because as a Singapore passport holder, I sympathise with Occupied Palestine (what Syrians called Israel) I have to stay 21 days in Amman before making another attempt. I slipped some US$ bills into the passport and it worked.

Think so how I got put on infraction watch yesterday (no idea why), and my reply to you was put on hold. Well, here it is again.

I've been in Russia twice in the summer in the last 3 years, Karzan, St. Peterburg, Moscow, and never had a problem with my SG passport.

I was just in Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, Switzerland last year to visit my brother in Zurich, and no problems on the trains going between those countries. Could be because of the EU harmonization stuff as well.

Never been to Israel, so can't comment. If I get involved in a project down there, perhaps I'll let you know if I have any issues with the red passport. ;-)

Cheers,
Trout

 

[Trout]

hi trout, I'm really very envious of you... get to explore these places !!!

This thread has been very educational for me, thanks guys for your inputs!!!

When your family has a bit of business connections, its easy to travel. My dad was the one of the first Singaporeans to go into Eastern Europe and the Central Asian states seeking business opportunities when the Iron Curtain fell in the late 80s, early 90s...hence the opportunities to go there. You noticed I've never been to S.America, as no connections in S.America. When you can justify an ROI for a trip, it makes it worthwhile to take the trip. Would never go on a trip just purely for sightseeing.

The Cuba trip is actually very common for Canadian snowbirds, and I wanted to learn about their "Special period" and the opportunities which will present itself during that time, since the whole world is currently facing an equivalent "Special period" now.

Cheers,
Trout

 

[neddy]

Think so how I got put on infraction watch yesterday (no idea why), and my reply to you was put on hold. Well, here it is again.

I've been in Russia twice in the summer in the last 3 years, Karzan, St. Peterburg, Moscow, and never had a problem with my SG passport.

I was just in Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, Switzerland last year to visit my brother in Zurich, and no problems on the trains going between those countries. Could be because of the EU harmonization stuff as well.

Never been to Israel, so can't comment. If I get involved in a project down there, perhaps I'll let you know if I have any issues with the red passport. ;-)

Cheers,
Trout

Nice to know things have changed. But still, with a Singapore passport, I cannot think of any country that offers reciprocal public health service as well as working holidays.

Are you a dual national?

I noticed that some visas cheaper with Singapore passport (eg 5 Jordanian dinar for a Singapore, but 25 JD for USA) With 2 passports or more, travel can be made easy.

Also, once, a colleague had to be evaucated from a war zone and even though he entered a country on an Italian passporte, he called up the OZ embassy for help and was evacuated by the Ozzies...

 

[Trout]

Nice to know things have changed. But still, with a Singapore passport, I cannot think of any country that offers reciprocal public health service as well as working holidays.

Are you a dual national?

I noticed that some visas cheaper with Singapore passport (eg 5 Jordanian dinar for a Singapore, but 25 JD for USA) With 2 passports or more, travel can be made easy.

Also, once, a colleague had to be evaucated from a war zone and even though he entered a country on an Italian passporte, he called up the OZ embassy for help and was evacuated by the Ozzies...

Have a Canadian PR, still thinking of whether to convert to citizenship when the time comes next year. If the official stance changes to "okay for dual citizenship" as opposed to a "don't ask, don't tell" stance, then would definitely take it and use my sg passport more for exotic location travel, and the Canadian one for first-world country type travel. At the moment, still weighing the options.

Cheers,
Trout

 

[Papsmearer]

I guess my problem is being nurtured in a society where fear is instilled as part of the growing process (education, military, perhaps society as well?).

Normally I'll enter SG with my family only for a few weeks each time to visit the folks and relatives. If being interrogated and the call is required to be made, I suppose I'll have to renounce my Singaporean citizenship to remove any implications on my children, if any, as they were not registered as Singapore citizens since their birth. I'm kinda the link between the Singapore and my kids in terms of this.

Thank you for your time in replying, same to you ahleebabasingaporethief.

U sir, for want of a better word, is a FUCKING MORON. Many people have pointed out to u in this thread that it is ILLEGAL in singapore to hold 2 passports or be the citizen of singapore and another country. U refuse to accept this and try to find a back door way. U are a typical kiasu idiot. Many people like u travel in and out of singapore while being citizens of another country and are unmolested when they do so. The reason they are not unmolested is not because there is no law against this, there is. ITs because they choose not to enforce it and hence u are not in jail. Occasionally, they need to make an example of someone, and they will arrest some unfortunate at the airport and publicise it widely. If u are the unlucky one, too bad.

Do u seriously think that the NRO does not know that u are an Aussie citizen or PR? When u emigrated there, and applied to the local police station for a criminal check letter, do u think they don't what it is for? When the Aussie embassy sends u to their doctor for the medical test, do u think he does not quietly pass your name on to the authorities? They have a 1000 and one ways to confirm that u have emigrated there. They chose not to enforce it for reasons of bad PR.

Now ask yourself what are the possible reasons for keeping the S'pore citizenship? To save on visa fees? To travel to more places?

Now ask yourself what are the advantages to giving it up and going Aussie all the way:
- U get all your CPF money now, and not later when they could lose it all for you.
-U get to invest your CPF money in a house or business in Australia.
-U avoid all these angst when u return to Singapore
- U are now an FT in SIngapore as opposed to a local
- Your children admire u more because u are not the kiasu fence sitter anymore.

 

[Jason.T]

U sir, for want of a better word, is a FUCKING MORON. Many people have pointed out to u in this thread that it is ILLEGAL in singapore to hold 2 passports or be the citizen of singapore and another country. U refuse to accept this and try to find a back door way. U are a typical kiasu idiot. Many people like u travel in and out of singapore while being citizens of another country and are unmolested when they do so. The reason they are not unmolested is not because there is no law against this, there is. ITs because they choose not to enforce it and hence u are not in jail. Occasionally, they need to make an example of someone, and they will arrest some unfortunate at the airport and publicise it widely. If u are the unlucky one, too bad.

Do u seriously think that the NRO does not know that u are an Aussie citizen or PR? When u emigrated there, and applied to the local police station for a criminal check letter, do u think they don't what it is for? When the Aussie embassy sends u to their doctor for the medical test, do u think he does not quietly pass your name on to the authorities? They have a 1000 and one ways to confirm that u have emigrated there. They chose not to enforce it for reasons of bad PR.

Now ask yourself what are the possible reasons for keeping the S'pore citizenship? To save on visa fees? To travel to more places?

Now ask yourself what are the advantages to giving it up and going Aussie all the way:
- U get all your CPF money now, and not later when they could lose it all for you.
-U get to invest your CPF money in a house or business in Australia.
-U avoid all these angst when u return to Singapore
- U are now an FT in SIngapore as opposed to a local
- Your children admire u more because u are not the kiasu fence sitter anymore.

Hi Papsmearer,

It seems like there are loads of anger & frustration in your post. Economic situation affecting you? Take it easy, life's too short to build up all the negative energy over something so trivial... well... it will all be trivial to us at some point in time, for example when we are lying on our death beds in the final moments of our lives.

Anyway, back to the topic...

All this while, I've only provided quotes from sites of the governing bodies (which I hope they still exist since my previous postings). What I'm trying to find out so far is exactly what Scroobal mentioned in his previous reply to this thread - "black & white" information, which I now understand is not available. I hope not to speculate and especially not to make any decisions based on assumptions.

Many people do want to hold on to their Singapore passports for several reasons, some could have already been listed by you but I'm sure that there are many more reasons which we wouldn't know unless we engage with the rest. Yes, "trying to find the back door" or "being kaisu", together with other terms coined by Singaporeans, do fit into the actions of what many Singaporeans overseas including myself are doing. I do not see anything wrong with having more options available, even if there is NO reason behind that. "Cannot meh?"

Of course naturally when the stakes of keeping these options open are too high, I believe people holding on to dual passports will be pushed to make the step and renounce Singapore citizenship - after all, we have come so far...

Hopefully this thread can steer towards a more positive direction or a neutral one at least.

JT

 

[Satan]

I was quite worried when I went into the States late last year for a couple of job interviews, because I had all the above custom stamps on my SG passport from my travels in 2007/08 (Yes, I was stupid enough to not ask the Cuban and Iranian customs not to stamp my passport.).

Surprise, surprise, I just went straight through - No questions asked. Its no wonder its the passport of choice for people with complicated backgrounds.

Cheers,
Trout

Bro Trout, I really envy you for being able to travel to so many ' exotic' places. *smile* Guess than you have a good reason for holding on to your Singapore passport. Guess if you are not so worried about your CPF, then its all right to hold on to 2 passports.

 

[Satan]

Guys, don't want to start a completely new thread on this. I'll be applying for my Ozzie citizenship sometime this month. My son however is only 9 years old now and I guess he wouldn't be able to renounce his Singapore citizenship till he is 21. The thing here is, could I renounce my citizenship and get my CPF out even though he could not till he reaches 21? I intend to apply for an Ozie passport for him and my daughter as well. How about my daughter? She is 11 now. Can she renounce her citizenship in Singapore or will she have to wait till 21 as well?

 

[silentmusic]

Congrats on applying Oz c'ship!
re your qn: Have you checked with ICA? they are the best people to answer.

 

[scroobal]

All singaporeans below the age of 21 cannot renounce their citizenship and that includes females even if they are married.

Go ahead and apply for citizenship for the whole family. Your son and daughter can make their decision when they reach 21.

Once you get your citizenship and passport, you can apply to renouce your citizenship and withdraw your citizenship. You can do both remotely. Suggest you download the forms from ICA and CPF. ICA takes about 6 weeks, CPF within days( application can only be made after receiving notification from ICA on successful renunciation of SG citizenship. Money to your OZ acct via TT or bankers cheque. No need for any other member of your family to renounce their citizenship for you to renounce and withdraw CPF.

You be required to hand over your SGP NRIC, Passports etc.

As your son left befvore 11 years, he need not do ns. Unless he renews his passport when it expires at age 11, applies for NRIC or returns to school locally etc. However he needs to follow the rules to seek final exmeption.
- Apply for exit permit at age 13 ( no need to pay bond if you have already left
- register for NS at age 16.5 ( I know its a weird term if you are seeking NS)

He will be given at the time of registration until the age of 21 when he has to give up his citizenship if he does not want to do NS. All the above applies even if he holds an OZ citizenship as he is still considered singaporean.

I know a couple of "heros" never did the above and now the kids can't visit singapore.

In the meantime, you will not be hassled travelling on either passports.

Guys, don't want to start a completely new thread on this. I'll be applying for my Ozzie citizenship sometime this month. My son however is only 9 years old now and I guess he wouldn't be able to renounce his Singapore citizenship till he is 21. The thing here is, could I renounce my citizenship and get my CPF out even though he could not till he reaches 21? I intend to apply for an Ozie passport for him and my daughter as well. How about my daughter? She is 11 now. Can she renounce her citizenship in Singapore or will she have to wait till 21 as well?

 

[Satan]

Thanks bro Scroobal. Appreciate your detailed response.

 

[Papsmearer]

Hi Papsmearer,

It seems like there are loads of anger & frustration in your post. Economic situation affecting you? Take it easy, life's too short to build up all the negative energy over something so trivial... well... it will all be trivial to us at some point in time, for example when we are lying on our death beds in the final moments of our lives.

Anyway, back to the topic...

All this while, I've only provided quotes from sites of the governing bodies (which I hope they still exist since my previous postings). What I'm trying to find out so far is exactly what Scroobal mentioned in his previous reply to this thread - "black & white" information, which I now understand is not available. I hope not to speculate and especially not to make any decisions based on assumptions.

Many people do want to hold on to their Singapore passports for several reasons, some could have already been listed by you but I'm sure that there are many more reasons which we wouldn't know unless we engage with the rest. Yes, "trying to find the back door" or "being kaisu", together with other terms coined by Singaporeans, do fit into the actions of what many Singaporeans overseas including myself are doing. I do not see anything wrong with having more options available, even if there is NO reason behind that. "Cannot meh?"

Of course naturally when the stakes of keeping these options open are too high, I believe people holding on to dual passports will be pushed to make the step and renounce Singapore citizenship - after all, we have come so far...

Hopefully this thread can steer towards a more positive direction or a neutral one at least.

JT

Please do not confuse my so call negativity with my economic situation. My economic situation is just fine, thank you. What I wanted to point out to everyone else who cares to read this thread is that u are a moron for trying to have your cake and eat it too. Kiasu people like u will never be happy. U know why? Because u are an ingrate. If you really want to succeed in Australia or which ever country u choose as your new home, than u need to renounce your S'pore citizenship, and give your new home the full undivided loyalty that it deserves. Why? Because when u do that, u have NO CHOICE BUT TO SUCCEED IN YOUR NEW COUNTRY. FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION. Without the crutch of your sinkie citizenship to fall back on, u will be forced to adapt and succeed.

U know how many people like you, that I know off, have gone to places like Canada and what not, and than move back to S'pore in less than a year? More than half a dozen. They always have some shit excuse like "the weather is too cold", "the taxes are too high", "cannot get a good paying job in the same career as in S`pore`etc. These people are losers. In the meantime, there are thousands of other sinkies that would give their right testicle for a chance to emigrate to a country like Canada or Australia.

Your new country will embrace u like it has embrace all other immigrants before u. If you are any kind of hard working, you and your spouse will be able to afford a freehold bungalow, and 2 cars. Your children will get first priority in uni, and not have to compete with FTs for places. Depending on the country u go to, your health care is completely paid for unlike singapore. You will get an old age pension when u retire, and free medical care. If you are unemployed, you will get benefits from the govt. Non of these is available via the PAP. U work a 40 hour work week and get paid for OT, not the 60 or 70 hour work weeks here. No wasted 2 years of NS, plus 3 years of Reservist for your sons. There are too many more benefits to list. In return, your new country asks for your loyalty. And ingrate fuckers like you try to hold on to a passport from a country that does not even give u 10% of what your new country does. And than have the audacity to come on this forum and try to think of ways on this forum on how to screw your new country over by retaining 2 passports.

U are not even honest with yourself. What u call òptions, are simply ungrateful kiasu behaviour. Your best bet is to give your place to another singaporean who will gladly kiss this shithole goodbye, take out all his CPF and give himself a real brand new start in Australia. Not a pseudo immigrant like you.

 

[neddy]

Please do not confuse my so call negativity with my economic situation. My economic situation is just fine, thank you. What I wanted to point out to everyone else who cares to read this thread is that u are a moron for trying to have your cake and eat it too. Kiasu people like u will never be happy. U know why? Because u are an ingrate. If you really want to succeed in Australia or which ever country u choose as your new home, than u need to renounce your S'pore citizenship, and give your new home the full undivided loyalty that it deserves. Why? Because when u do that, u have NO CHOICE BUT TO SUCCEED IN YOUR NEW COUNTRY. FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION. Without the crutch of your sinkie citizenship to fall back on, u will be forced to adapt and succeed.

U know how many people like you, that I know off, have gone to places like Canada and what not, and than move back to S'pore in less than a year? More than half a dozen. They always have some shit excuse like "the weather is too cold", "the taxes are too high", "cannot get a good paying job in the same career as in S`pore`etc. These people are losers. In the meantime, there are thousands of other sinkies that would give their right testicle for a chance to emigrate to a country like Canada or Australia.

Your new country will embrace u like it has embrace all other immigrants before u. If you are any kind of hard working, you and your spouse will be able to afford a freehold bungalow, and 2 cars. Your children will get first priority in uni, and not have to compete with FTs for places. Depending on the country u go to, your health care is completely paid for unlike singapore. You will get an old age pension when u retire, and free medical care. If you are unemployed, you will get benefits from the govt. Non of these is available via the PAP. U work a 40 hour work week and get paid for OT, not the 60 or 70 hour work weeks here. No wasted 2 years of NS, plus 3 years of Reservist for your sons. There are too many more benefits to list. In return, your new country asks for your loyalty. And ingrate fuckers like you try to hold on to a passport from a country that does not even give u 10% of what your new country does. And than have the audacity to come on this forum and try to think of ways on this forum on how to screw your new country over by retaining 2 passports.

U are not even honest with yourself. What u call òptions, are simply ungrateful kiasu behaviour. Your best bet is to give your place to another singaporean who will gladly kiss this shithole goodbye, take out all his CPF and give himself a real brand new start in Australia. Not a pseudo immigrant like you.

You are quite right. I gave up my Singapore citizenship because it had became a burden. It did came across my mind about the following factors :-

1. SGD is more stable. [That is because it is controlled by govt]
2. Sg healthcare is better [Not true anymore. In fact, I have less avenue to seek redress if anything go wrong]
3. If anything happen in any of the countries, I can escape to another. [Fat hope. I do not wish to live long term in Singapore anymore]
4. Countries like Australia give its citizens to be dual nationals. So, if people want to enjoy these benefits, it is their choice. People are know to plead for reinstatement of Aus citizenship after bad-mouthing Australia when giving up Aussie citizenship. I just pity these people.

CANBERRA, April 26 AAP - Pixie Skase, the widow of fugitive businessman Christopher
Skase, is free to once again become an Australian .

Citizenship Minister Peter McGauran today said legal advice indicated there was little
prospect of success in any appeal against the decision of the Administrative Appeal Tribunal
allowing her to renew her citizenship.

He said he believed Mrs Skase had received a very lucky judgment in her favour.

Mr McGauran said she and her husband, failed businessman Christopher Skase, both repudiated
their Australian citizenship and became citizens of Dominica in 1998

 

[scroobal]

I think the point that the threadstarter was making is if you have choice of holding on to both a Mars bar and Kit Kat, why give one up. Once you have received an OZ citizenship, holding on to a Singapore citizenship does not require you do anything extra. In fact, as other have pointed out in their posts, sometimes entry in a certain country using the Singapore passpost will not require a visa and vice versa.

This thread has nothing do with which country is better. It more on best of both worlds. Having your cake and eating it.

ps. now that I have mentioned food, is Ming Palace still around?

You are quite right. I gave up my Singapore citizenship because it had became a burden. It did came across my mind about the following factors :-

 

[Papsmearer]

I think the point that the threadstarter was making is if you have choice of holding on to both a Mars bar and Kit Kat, why give one up. Once you have received an OZ citizenship, holding on to a Singapore citizenship does not require you do anything extra. In fact, as other have pointed out in their posts, sometimes entry in a certain country using the Singapore passpost will not require a visa and vice versa.

This thread has nothing do with which country is better. It more on best of both worlds. Having your cake and eating it.

ps. now that I have mentioned food, is Ming Palace still around?

u are mistaken. What the thread starter is saying is that he now has a Mars bar. For some reason he is so dissatisfied with it that he has at considerable time and expense acquired a kit Kat. Now he is trying to hold on to both. The question he has to ask himself is if he was so dissatified with the Mars bar in the first place, why even consider keeping it now that he has the Kit Kat? Got it?