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Opposition Party - Lack of Mkting skills/Beneficial Policies/Talent?
- Thread starter iamtalkinglah
- Start date
My only quarrel is why advise others to void their precious vote, that you know in our current political situation is as good as voting for PAP.
That is bcoz by casting a void vote means i'm unhappy with a particular opposition member too.
For instance, if my online discussion with Goh Meng Seng doesn't give me a good impression of him...why should i vote for him?
If he behaves like other forumers that resorted to names calling, vulgarities whenever he "lost" a discussion....i'll think poorly of him.
If he can't control his temper for online discussion, how can he manage
bigger issues?
Note: GMS....pardon me to take you as an example.
It is the same theory as PM Lee when he said he will concentrate his
time to deal with oppositions rather than on national issues if more
oppositions are voted in.
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Bsides high IQ....i guess politicians need high EQ too.
:p We cannot vote any other parties just bcoz PAP is not good. The opposition party have to show to us that they deserve our vote too.
However, if the PAP comes up with good policies backed up with facts/figures that substantiate why they come out with the policies and their thought process etc and if they have already resolved/resolving national issues then isn't it hitting two birds with one stones? They don't need additional efforts to deal with the oppositions.
Singaporeans by their naivete and ignorance end up every election getting conned by the PAP with their consoling talk, and give away their chance to register their grievances at the polls, and then wonder why on earth the PAP was returned to power for 50 years when they were not listened to etc.
Why is it voters don't see, or can't see, that the PAP always sugarcoat their speeches when elections are imminent, and always end up swallowing their bait hook, line and sinker?
If you have been bashed over yr head every day, and when one day a chance appears for you to neutralise the person who bashes you, do you start listening again and believing the person when he tells you he'll stop and he'll get you candies and bring you to a movie? If you do, whose fault is it if yr condition doesnt improve?
Why is it voters don't see, or can't see, that the PAP always sugarcoat their speeches when elections are imminent, and always end up swallowing their bait hook, line and sinker?
If you have been bashed over yr head every day, and when one day a chance appears for you to neutralise the person who bashes you, do you start listening again and believing the person when he tells you he'll stop and he'll get you candies and bring you to a movie? If you do, whose fault is it if yr condition doesnt improve?
That is bcoz by casting a void vote means i'm unhappy with a particular opposition member too.
peace Looks like the TS is a lost cause.
The way he is arguing signals that of the typical 66% where he can be bought by PAP giving him a simple rebate or a $200 progress package and all is forgotten.
PAP MP did do their best in helping people during the Meet-The-People sessions.
Many people will not vote for an unknown opposition members to become their MP.
In Singapore, HDB estates is well-maintained & the living condition here a lot better than Hong Kong, Malaysia & China.
Majority of Singapore Citizen will still vote in PAP :p based their action & track records
If PAP won 95% of nationwide votes every election then I have no problems with them getting 95% parliamentary seats.
so clearly PAP mandate is over exaggerated, seats in parliament is over represented due to the flawed nature of plurality winner election with no proportional representation.
even if we have plurality winner elections with PR. PAP would still get 75% of parliamentary seats with the oppositions grabbing a few seats due to PR system so why not for PAP?
There should be no wasted votes and proportional representation will make every votes count.
so clearly PAP mandate is over exaggerated, seats in parliament is over represented due to the flawed nature of plurality winner election with no proportional representation.
even if we have plurality winner elections with PR. PAP would still get 75% of parliamentary seats with the oppositions grabbing a few seats due to PR system so why not for PAP?
There should be no wasted votes and proportional representation will make every votes count.
Such is the system. Remember, opposition also benefitted from it before. Ling How Doong and Cheo Chai Chen won by thin margins, that is if you want to use the term wasted votes, PAP wasted 48-9% votes then.
It's like football, if you score 2 goals and end up losing 2:3, that's 2 wasted goals.
That's the trouble. The PAP has managed to 'con' these people into thinking that the MP is their local government, a notion advanced by Goh CT using the concept of Town Councils. But do you seriously believe that with more Opp MPs all this will vanish and the HDB estates will become rundown? They only become rundown because the PAP govt abuses the govt machinery to advance their petty partisan politics. Just look back at the announcement of HDB upgrading programmes for PP and HG. Suddenly there the Town Council concept - the elected MP being in charge of TC matters, and HDB upgrading is overseen by PAP MPs in PAP wards - does not apply there to LTK and CST, and the funds stopped flowing. Isnt that petty partisan politics on the part of the govt that have caused the misery?
The anti-PAP sentiments were everywhere in every constituency, yet PP and HG got punished because there, the voters were more loyal to the cause across Singapore and were more brazen to express them in numbers that returned 2 Opp MPs to victory. Voters in other wards acquiesced to treats and threats by a political party in the guise of state governance . And today, we still have people who get seduced by the PAP's siiren song instead of punishing them for what they did to HG and PP at the polls. I wld say that these people let the PP and HG voters down when push came to shove, but free-rode on and enjoyed whatever benefits produced by the parliamentary presence of CST and LTK. It's the selfish kiasu and kiasi Singapore mentality at work, and the Old Man knows it too well and kept playing it and exploiting it. Sinkies have only themselves to blame. They get the govt they deserve.
The anti-PAP sentiments were everywhere in every constituency, yet PP and HG got punished because there, the voters were more loyal to the cause across Singapore and were more brazen to express them in numbers that returned 2 Opp MPs to victory. Voters in other wards acquiesced to treats and threats by a political party in the guise of state governance . And today, we still have people who get seduced by the PAP's siiren song instead of punishing them for what they did to HG and PP at the polls. I wld say that these people let the PP and HG voters down when push came to shove, but free-rode on and enjoyed whatever benefits produced by the parliamentary presence of CST and LTK. It's the selfish kiasu and kiasi Singapore mentality at work, and the Old Man knows it too well and kept playing it and exploiting it. Sinkies have only themselves to blame. They get the govt they deserve.
PAP MP did do their best in helping people during the Meet-The-People sessions.
Many people will not vote for an unknown opposition members to become their MP.
In Singapore, HDB estates is well-maintained & the living condition here a lot better than Hong Kong, Malaysia & China.
Majority of Singapore Citizen will still vote in PAP :p based their action & track records
Proportional representation will fully represent the peoples political will ( percentage of votes = percentage of seats )
plurality voting systems will result in disproportional seat distribution while Plurality with PR will result in a more balanced election system.
and yes, PAP wasted 49% votes back then when Ling and Cheo won. That's why you must give peoples a second vote for favored political party and ideally proportional representation system minimum voting threshold must be a low as possible so that all political parties can share the seats ( no wasted votes again )
and you really can't compare elections to football.
even if one day our oppositions manage to take control of parliament through plurality systems. I still like to see Plurality + PR for our election system. I support this system, not that it gave our oppositions more seats.
I think LTK once said MPs should be purely lawmakers and act as advisers to the constituency he represent. Singapore should have local elections. What LTK suggested is the standard in other countries, not sure how it could work out in Singapore though
Ideally, Singapore should have at least 2 elections, local elections - elect town councilors and who control your town council, and national elections - elect a lawmaker to represent you in parliament.
That may help to separate out the parochial and the national issues. No system is perfect, and citizenry has to make sure it works. In our case, the electorate is still not sophisticated enough, even at middle class level let alone the lower social levels. I suspect a lot of people have no clue how our system works: the executive branch, the legislative and the judiciary. They get hoodwinked by the PAP because they cant tell between the govt talking and the party talking.
you need to have a outright winner in a Presidential or Mayor election.
Parliamentary Assembly are different.
Yes you are right. I am one such person.
All these conversation that you guys are having shows that you guys are lau jiao (old bird). I am lost in what you are talking about.
When you guys are free, please help start explaining a little by little. Only by discussing this, people will start to understand. Where else can we find this information? I think it is only via forums.
S'pore's system is inherited from the UK's Westminster system. Political parties vie for the people's votes in a general election once every 5 years. The winning Party by a simple majority of seats in the Legislative Assembly or Parliament gets to form the head of govt and cabinet. It decides among itself who will be PM who will then be head of the govt, and other Ministers in his Cabinet. As the party in power, it gets to set policy directions. So you have party members appointed by the PM as Ministers who get to head a Ministry each. How many Ministries is up to the govt, so if an Opp party gets into power, it can change, reduce or increase the number and variety. The Minister oversees the deployment of the govt's policies, approves the appt of civil servants (!) etc. Public institutions are entities like by the civil service, stat boards and agencies. Under them are the police, army, CPIB, central bank, AG.
The newspapers and the universities are in name only independent but the PAP makes sure someone from the PAP sits up there to ensure they play ball. Go study the history of how the newpapers (we had such a plurality of them and so fiercely defiant too, in those days) and the Unis all got cleaned up one by one after 1959. The govt appoints suitable candidates to the judiciary. An honest govt will appoint good people to be CJ and judges; but a corrupt govt can also appoint friends, golf buddies, and drinking partners (cronyism) and in-laws, relatives (nepotism) to the posts. Thus, you can see how pervasive the govt is to run the show. Of course, nobody denies it needs this power in the Ministries to do its job. Which is of cos dictated by the PM or head of the party. So if the party starts becoming corrupt, you can see how much it can cover up. This is the side of the Executive branch.
Then you have the parliament or legco (in HK). This is filled by MPs from the party in power, as well as other parties which manage to win seats thru the general elections. This House makes legislation, debates laws, rejects or passes laws and serve as a check and balance to the ruling party's power. If the ruling party is dominant, the Opp influence naturally becomes marginal or zilch. A good govt lifts the Whip during important Bills, meaning that e.g. PAP MPs can follow their conscience to vote on the Bill inst of toeing the party line. A Whip is one who ensures their members toe the line, and empowers him to take disciplinary action if reqd. However, it is not always in the govt's interests to lift the whip, so that it can sail thru with its Bills ( a power the PAP always wants to keep and which it wants to deny to the Opp). That is why we have to strengthen parliament by voting in more Opp MPs to slow it down for a more balanced and proper debate and accountability and to give voice to the people's feelings etc.
Recommended books: Singapore:The Unexpected nation by Edwin Lee; Media Enthralled by Francis Seow; Paths Not taken by Carl Trocki and Michael Barr, for a start.
I also urge other bros on this forum to help in education.
The newspapers and the universities are in name only independent but the PAP makes sure someone from the PAP sits up there to ensure they play ball. Go study the history of how the newpapers (we had such a plurality of them and so fiercely defiant too, in those days) and the Unis all got cleaned up one by one after 1959. The govt appoints suitable candidates to the judiciary. An honest govt will appoint good people to be CJ and judges; but a corrupt govt can also appoint friends, golf buddies, and drinking partners (cronyism) and in-laws, relatives (nepotism) to the posts. Thus, you can see how pervasive the govt is to run the show. Of course, nobody denies it needs this power in the Ministries to do its job. Which is of cos dictated by the PM or head of the party. So if the party starts becoming corrupt, you can see how much it can cover up. This is the side of the Executive branch.
Then you have the parliament or legco (in HK). This is filled by MPs from the party in power, as well as other parties which manage to win seats thru the general elections. This House makes legislation, debates laws, rejects or passes laws and serve as a check and balance to the ruling party's power. If the ruling party is dominant, the Opp influence naturally becomes marginal or zilch. A good govt lifts the Whip during important Bills, meaning that e.g. PAP MPs can follow their conscience to vote on the Bill inst of toeing the party line. A Whip is one who ensures their members toe the line, and empowers him to take disciplinary action if reqd. However, it is not always in the govt's interests to lift the whip, so that it can sail thru with its Bills ( a power the PAP always wants to keep and which it wants to deny to the Opp). That is why we have to strengthen parliament by voting in more Opp MPs to slow it down for a more balanced and proper debate and accountability and to give voice to the people's feelings etc.
Recommended books: Singapore:The Unexpected nation by Edwin Lee; Media Enthralled by Francis Seow; Paths Not taken by Carl Trocki and Michael Barr, for a start.
I also urge other bros on this forum to help in education.
Go library borrow Melanie Chew's "Leaders of Singapore". Very unique & rare interview accounts.
In Toh Chin Chye's interview section: it was revealed by Toh that LKY basically went to pieces after 9 Aug 1965.
Reclusive & withdrawn. retreated to Govt Changi Bungalow. Until cabinet hard to contact him, don't know how to proceed / what's going on. Eventually only in Dec 1965 then reconvene parliament..... all these according to Toh !
I read this many years back, but not sure if NLB still retain this book
Thanks for the information!
I will get a copy to read!
I will get a copy to read!
Exactly. So vote opposition, whatever their objectives.
Yesterday I ask a friend whether he knows that the opposition will be contesting against MBT. He said, "I'll vote for PAP, it's not my problem".
Another friend responded, "You know that PAP is not doing a good job, you support the opposition but as long as it is not your own Constituency. i.e. You wont vote for opposition when it comes to your Constituency".
I didn't respond to my friend cause I am very shocked.
When I go home I chatted with my friend. I am also very shocked that my friend didn't know that 3/5 of the population are foreigners (and he didn't know that MBT are the one who comes up with the HDB policy). He asked me who gave me this statistic. He said that PR should be rich people cause they have high qualification and get high paid jobs.
Of course I disagree with this and cited him the example whereby a childcare teacher got her PR within 2 months and he said a lot of people falsify their salary to get PR. And my own personal experience.
He said, some people pay extra CPF via the Company to prove they have a higher salary and some work extra OT to increase the salary.
I suggested to him to read news on this matter such as the major flaws of the immigration policy. And he ask me what I want him to do, vote for the opposition?
I said no, you have to make your own decisions when it comes to voting but you need to do some reading to make an informed decision.
He replied, then whats the use of getting bothered by this kind of discussion when u can do nothing to improve the situation?
I said you can, by voting for the opposition.
He replied, that why our friend said "You wont vote for opposition when it comes to your Constituency." and he asked me why I didn't discuss the above with him in front of my other friend.
I said because he is not living in Tampines and we are in a public place.
Then he replied, if u feel there's nothing wrong in the discussion then why strangers cannot hear & get educated as well?
I said I don't openly discuss this because people are brainwashed and I am not a saint, I can't help every person, I can only help my friends.
The above is just a summary of our conversation. You know, I feel demoralized.
1) I am not asking my friend to vote for the opposition. I am just asking my friend to read about politics since he is clearly ignorant of what is happening. I'm demoralized that people are not concern of politics and not concern about Singapore.
2) How to remove this perception from my friend? "You know that PAP is not doing a good job, you support the opposition but as long as it is not your own Constituency" which brings back to my question in this thread.
Like I have said, we cannot vote for the opposition just because the PAP is not good, the opposition need to show to us that they deserved our vote. We don't know what the opposition can do for us so naturally as PAP have the track record, people will go for PAP.
3) Why did I discuss this with my friend and he thought I am sabo-ing him? From my interpreting of the conversation above, (see highlighted in red), it is as if I am practicing "You know that PAP is not doing a good job, you support the opposition but as long as it is not your own Constituency"
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