Opposition-bashing in "Opposition unity" forum

[commoner]

just happens that not all Opp supporters are genuinely Opp supporters but wolf in sheep clothing

 

[yellow_people]

It's very easy to be a "threat". Mas Selamat is a bigger threat because an even bigger machinery is gunning for him. That doesn't make Mas Selamat an opposition I want to vote for.

As expected you will slunk away after this.

Your intellilectual dishonesty is telling. You are comparing a bonfide politician and the threat he poses to the hegemony of a totalitarian regime to an alleged terrorist who escaped. .

 

[char_jig_kar]

Dear Scroobal and Perspective



I am afraid Chap represents the "ideological purist" amongst the opposition camps. From his words I see a consistent recurring theme being pushed over and over again as reflected in the recently concluded SDP forum where the like minded preach to the like minded and where ten's of new faces is celebrated as a victory. Where engagement is rhetoric subsituted for thoughtful analysis. Then again with the internet being their new vehicle should you be surprised at the use of clones and nics to manufacture opinion so as to influence off line views ? Moderation and critical thought has its place, and thus chap's view point has to debated and discussed

Chap's argument is circular in many respects not just 360 degrees but more akin to 3600 degrees, he goes round and round so often that he should faint from all that effort.

The current opposition is not opposition enough, the current opposition errrr passes the pap and errr would vote for the PAp. the currrent opposition should be voted out of Parliament because they have failed the people who voted for them. Singaporeans are sheep. voters are sheep, the current opposition says the PAP has a passing grade,( forgetting the other half of the statement, forgetting the PAP gives themselves a first class, forgetting that there might be enough people who would not fail the PAP outright ) , Vote PAP agreed..YSL was an idiot but then will not be the first oppo figure to make a mistake of some form. When will I ever see a NON PAP Gov in my lifetime ? It is only under conditions of perfect democracy that the PAP can be pressured and overthrown.

The SDP draws its strength and its hope from the internet. Perhaps its effect is more real offline then I can recall but its supporters seem hell bent in my view on dominating the Anti PAP space on line by shoving everyone else aside and painting them as not opposition enough

How opposition is opposition enough ? If moderation has won and has kept seats then sad to say moderation is what works whether chap likes it or not. If fervent ideologues win seats then well we would have a different opposition mix.

I will have my disagreements on what is the best method to oppose, but I will always
vote opposition no matter who. Those fervent passionates on the other side I believe will never do the same



Locke

i guess the WP cant help themselves but to do spin here in this thread, just like they always did. maybe its their flair with words which make them enjoy to hear their own words.

its u that got yourself confused and dazed. not me.

there are Oppositions who walk too damn close to the PAP. shouldn't vote them into the parliament. simple as that.

 

[char_jig_kar]

I find this all very funny. We all know from the last GE, 66.6% voted PAP and 33.4% voted Opp. Why are Opp supporters fighting among themselves for that 33.4%, however distributed among all Opp parties still guarantees a sure lose. Shouldn't Opp supporters be going after that 66.6%?

'cause when the fake product try to pass itself to be the real deal, it will not rise up to the challenge, the occasion. and the market share would always be pathetic.

stay true to the Opposition ideologies. thats the whole point. if don't have any ideologies, please go search for it instead of following the pungent whiff of Lee Kuan Yew's fart.

 

[char_jig_kar]

just happens that not all Opp supporters are genuinely Opp supporters but wolf in sheep clothing

exactly. YSL and WP who sided him are good examples, like the wolf in sheep clothing.

 

[Perspective]

Your intellilectual dishonesty is telling. You are comparing a bonfide politician and the threat he poses to the hegemony of a totalitarian regime to an alleged terrorist who escaped. .

Labels, labels again. Nothing new. Next time I'll insist a dog is a cat.

Look at the essence and then your own illustrations. Tell me where Mas has been more threatening than Chee, then come back.

 

[scroobal]

Chap's argument is circular in many respects not just 360 degrees but more akin to 3600 degrees, he goes round and round so often that he should faint from all that effort.

Very well put.

It also reminds me of toddlers throwing tantrums where they want the whole ice cream or nothing at all. I am pretty sure that he was spoilt as a child.

When they grow up, the power of reasoning is shallow and they adopt the "my way or the highway" approach to life.

I knew when GCT praised Steve Chia and subsequently Chiam, it was the kiss of the death. Old man who never ever believed in giving half credits suddenly employed the same with Low when dealing with Chee. True enough the simpletons bit the cherry.

Democracy only works well when education is pretty universal and the level of political intelligence is realtively high.

Samy Vellu did something similar by keeping the tamil masses in estates and championing venacular education. A whole generation has been doomed. The few that went overseas have come back to rattle his cage and a good job they did.

How do you fathom someone who claims to be anti-PAP but who hates opposition so much more than the PAP that they have become an established support level for the PAP.

And in the next breath asking for accountability from the PAP.

 

[scroobal]

i loathed the PAP. so why would i want them to control the parliament?

but to vote for PAP apologist into the parliament, it doesn't benefit the Opposition supporters, except for those who has fetish for the view of a PAP apologist cross dressed as a Opposition MP.

Like I said, just send your name to Istana for PBM.

You ask any old timer and they will tell without batting an eyelid that Harbans Singh was the best thing for the PAP. It made PAP look so good. The press focused on Harbans and his secretary who was his mistress that Singaporeans were not aware that there were other opposition politicians. The press never gave them a chance to create a profile. There was also no internet and things like 41% fall in GIC value will never be known.

 

[leetahbar]

Dear Scroobal and Perspective



I am afraid Chap represents the "ideological purist" amongst the opposition camps. From his words I see a consistent recurring theme being pushed over and over again as reflected in the recently concluded SDP forum where the like minded preach to the like minded and where ten's of new faces is celebrated as a victory. Where engagement is rhetoric subsituted for thoughtful analysis. Then again with the internet being their new vehicle should you be surprised at the use of clones and nics to manufacture opinion so as to influence off line views ? Moderation and critical thought has its place, and thus chap's view point has to debated and discussed

Chap's argument is circular in many respects not just 360 degrees but more akin to 3600 degrees, he goes round and round so often that he should faint from all that effort.

The current opposition is not opposition enough, the current opposition errrr passes the pap and errr would vote for the PAp. the currrent opposition should be voted out of Parliament because they have failed the people who voted for them. Singaporeans are sheep. voters are sheep, the current opposition says the PAP has a passing grade,( forgetting the other half of the statement, forgetting the PAP gives themselves a first class, forgetting that there might be enough people who would not fail the PAP outright ) , Vote PAP agreed..YSL was an idiot but then will not be the first oppo figure to make a mistake of some form. When will I ever see a NON PAP Gov in my lifetime ? It is only under conditions of perfect democracy that the PAP can be pressured and overthrown.

The SDP draws its strength and its hope from the internet. Perhaps its effect is more real offline then I can recall but its supporters seem hell bent in my view on dominating the Anti PAP space on line by shoving everyone else aside and painting them as not opposition enough

How opposition is opposition enough ? If moderation has won and has kept seats then sad to say moderation is what works whether chap likes it or not. If fervent ideologues win seats then well we would have a different opposition mix.

I will have my disagreements on what is the best method to oppose, but I will always
vote opposition no matter who. Those fervent passionates on the other side I believe will never do the same



Locke

KIM JONG IL'S LOOKALIKE RULES!!....well, at least in the internet:p

 

[char_jig_kar]

Very well put.

It also reminds me of toddlers throwing tantrums where they want the whole ice cream or nothing at all. I am pretty sure that he was spoilt as a child.

When they grow up, the power of reasoning is shallow and they adopt the "my way or the highway" approach to life.

another signature move by the WP supporter/ apologist.

to put words into people's mouth. to spin to come up with little white lies here and there, to smear when they fail to defend their stand and take.

when did i suggest all or nothing at all? i am against your suggestion. which is just blindly vote for anyone who run against the PAP. all i suggest, is to ask people to open their eyes, observe, and make prudent judgment before they cast their votes.

thats 'highway' approach?

I knew when GCT praised Steve Chia and subsequently Chiam, it was the kiss of the death. Old man who never ever believed in giving half credits suddenly employed the same with Low when dealing with Chee. True enough the simpletons bit the cherry.

simpletons are those who deduce from these episodes as the reason for some Oppo supporters to get turn off by the PAP apologist. thats truly simpleton.

people has got eyes to see the behavior of the PAP apologist. they could tell. no need to wait for old fart or his lieutenant's gesture, credit towards the PAP apologists to come up with their conclusion on the PAP's apologist true political inclination.

Democracy only works well when education is pretty universal and the level of political intelligence is realtively high.

not true. u must be highly educated, but yet, your level of political intelligence is still in the intermediate level of chasing whiff of PAP's political correctness and world view. immature, and myopic.

How do you fathom someone who claims to be anti-PAP but who hates opposition so much more than the PAP that they have become an established support level for the PAP.

And in the next breath asking for accountability from the PAP.

again, u had shown the trait of the WP supporter/ apologist, who love to put words into people's mouth. i don't hate the Opposition. i hate PAP apologist, wannabes pretend to be Opposition. there's a difference. i guess i have to repeat this statement a lot more time in order for u to register in your short memory.

 

[char_jig_kar]

Like I said, just send your name to Istana for PBM.

You ask any old timer and they will tell without batting an eyelid that Harbans Singh was the best thing for the PAP. It made PAP look so good. The press focused on Harbans and his secretary who was his mistress that Singaporeans were not aware that there were other opposition politicians. The press never gave them a chance to create a profile. There was also no internet and things like 41% fall in GIC value will never be known.

one harbans singh, and it justified the PAP apologist, PAP wannabes in the Opposition to be vote into the parliament? u make me winced. why? u seem smart and yet pathetically stupid.

 

[Perspective]

Dear Scroobal and Perspective

I am afraid Chap represents the "ideological purist" amongst the opposition camps. From his words I see a consistent recurring theme being pushed over and over again as reflected in the recently concluded SDP forum where the like minded preach to the like minded and where ten's of new faces is celebrated as a victory. Where engagement is rhetoric subsituted for thoughtful analysis. Then again with the internet being their new vehicle should you be surprised at the use of clones and nics to manufacture opinion so as to influence off line views ? Moderation and critical thought has its place, and thus chap's view point has to debated and discussed

Chap's argument is circular in many respects not just 360 degrees but more akin to 3600 degrees, he goes round and round so often that he should faint from all that effort.

The current opposition is not opposition enough, the current opposition errrr passes the pap and errr would vote for the PAp. the currrent opposition should be voted out of Parliament because they have failed the people who voted for them. Singaporeans are sheep. voters are sheep, the current opposition says the PAP has a passing grade,( forgetting the other half of the statement, forgetting the PAP gives themselves a first class, forgetting that there might be enough people who would not fail the PAP outright ) , Vote PAP agreed..YSL was an idiot but then will not be the first oppo figure to make a mistake of some form. When will I ever see a NON PAP Gov in my lifetime ? It is only under conditions of perfect democracy that the PAP can be pressured and overthrown.

The SDP draws its strength and its hope from the internet. Perhaps its effect is more real offline then I can recall but its supporters seem hell bent in my view on dominating the Anti PAP space on line by shoving everyone else aside and painting them as not opposition enough

How opposition is opposition enough ? If moderation has won and has kept seats then sad to say moderation is what works whether chap likes it or not. If fervent ideologues win seats then well we would have a different opposition mix.

I will have my disagreements on what is the best method to oppose, but I will always
vote opposition no matter who. Those fervent passionates on the other side I believe will never do the sameLocke

Anyone who has read parties in deeper detail would know that the difference between SDP and WP/SDA/NSP/even RP is hardly the number of issues. Maybe the type but very little difference. The bigger difference is the former will say that GST rise is no good and ensure they go to prison for at least a good 10 days, with all the police and judges looking stupid. The latter will say that GST rise is no good and spread the word through every channels necessary, press releases, questions in Parliament etc., make the ministers jump in anger.

Let's not talk about which is better or worse, right or wrong - but honestly there is no way either side will take the approach of each other. To take back Parliament presence, key people in the SDP will have to wait for a sit-out period, such as 5 years of disqualification or 7 years discharge, in which opportunities will be missed. The latter would have to forego the Parliamentary route because once you do so, you are out of polls and can't look back at the route, it's like a path of no return. To summarise, these are 2 paths that will not meet and therefore can only choose either one, it is impossible to choose both or expect to u-turn without costs.

The poor chap (no pun intended) hasn't grasped the point and kept asking Scro about voting "PAP opposition" when Scro, who is the type who would vote SDP or WP or whatever opposition, has already responded that this concept is a merely figment of imagination.

I kudos the SDP for bringing a new kind of politics into the foray, one that will be immune to the PAP's onslaught. Something JBJ, TLH and FS never thought of. In the ancient past of wars for power, they would be first to lose their lives, but because today's countries takes power by people support, they could still self-preserve as long as they did not flee the country. But unless the onslaught spirals into something much more in Singapore, they may have to wait for a while to never eternity.

 

[Perspective]

Democracy only works well when education is pretty universal and the level of political intelligence is realtively high.

I don't know if Thailand can be considered to have gone the opposite direction. Elections become no-count.

Wonder why these things happen to Asian countries. 9 ASEAN members and we have 2 chaotic democracies, 3 semi-democracies, 2 communist states, 1 military state and 1 monarchy.

 

[kingrant]

but we cant just vote any tom dick and harry into parliament isn't it?

if all tom dick and harry are PAP apologists, wannabes, what is the point to for the opposition supporters to vote them into the parliament?

how many times do u want me to repeat that?

Exactly,you shld still vote for these pple even if they are all screwballs (scroobal -pardon the pun). The grand idea is to cut the PAPvotes. No matter what the PAP wants you to fear that there will be a freak election, high chances are an Opp grand victory win will not come about. What is likely to happen is if you do as you shld do, the margins of PAP wins in each GRC/ward will be narrower. That is shock therapy for the PAP. They can't stand that! So they will still have that majority number of seats in Parliament and still rule, but there will be more Opp who can walk in as NCMPs, and the PAP will be humiliated. These NCMPs will then have a chance at last to prove themselves until the next election.

 

[scroobal]

I don't know if Thailand can be considered to have gone the opposite direction. Elections become no-count.

Wonder why these things happen to Asian countries. 9 ASEAN members and we have 2 chaotic democracies, 3 semi-democracies, 2 communist states, 1 military state and 1 monarchy.

In fact, the pro royalist has always felt and have stated that it has to be a "guided" democracy. For decades the rural folks listened to the king until Thaksin stepped in and began programs for the farmers. Then the farmers realised that the King and royalist have been screwing them. When the royalist lost power, they do not want to be democratic.

Actually the same issues are present in nearly all 3rd world countries as Latin America, Africa , former USSR eastern states.

If you notice that the PAP in the late 80s began a chant that along the following lines
- no all democracies are the same
- singapore version is unique
- cannot apply wetsern model etc
- even for a while came out confucianism with loyalty towards leaders

PAP realised that the younger generation will begin to travel and cannot comprehend single party rule in a democracy.

Even now, we have exchanges of posts with educated people in this forum who still think that there is nothing wrong with single party and actually think the opposition are of bad quality and it has nothing to do with PAP.

 

[scroobal]

Exactly,you shld still vote for these pple even if they are all screwballs (scroobal -pardon the pun). The grand idea is to cut the PAPvotes. No matter what the PAP wants you to fear that there will be a freak election, high chances are an Opp grand victory win will not come about. What is likely to happen is if you do as you shld do, the margins of PAP wins in each GRC/ward will be narrower. That is shock therapy for the PAP. They can't stand that! So they will still have that majority number of seats in Parliament and still rule, but there will be more Opp who can walk in as NCMPs, and the PAP will be humiliated. These NCMPs will then have a chance at last to prove themselves until the next election.

You are absolutely right and well articulated. Can't wait for the day when people begin to think like you and not like what the SPH wants them to think.

 

[scroobal]

when did i suggest all or nothing at all? i am against your suggestion. which is just blindly vote for anyone who run against the PAP. all i suggest, is to ask people to open their eyes, observe, and make prudent judgment before they cast their votes.

Bro, can I just appeal to you for the sake of this country's future alonf these lines

1) Lets not get into petty squabbles about which opposition party likes to wear yellow coloured or pink coloured underwear. Or even if an underwear is ever worn. These have no relevance with the mission at hand of moving towards a multi-party system.

2) Lets focus on reducing the numbers of PAP seats to aleast force them to be responsive and receptive to the public and stop the widening gaps between elite and the rest.

3) Give anyone who is prepared to stand against the PAP a fighting chance to prove herself or himself.

4) Lets not be childish and keep labelling people who you do not like as pro-pap. Do not cut off your nose to spite your face. You fall into the PAP's trap by continuing to condem all opposition parties that are eligible to contest the elections. You know that the PAP likes it because they get to retain their seats intact.

 

[chewed]

Bro, can I just appeal to you for the sake of this country's future alonf these lines

1) Lets not get into petty squabbles about which opposition party likes to wear yellow coloured or pink coloured underwear. Or even if an underwear is ever worn. These have no relevance with the mission at hand of moving towards a multi-party system.

2) Lets focus on reducing the numbers of PAP seats to aleast force them to be responsive and receptive to the public and stop the widening gaps between elite and the rest.

3) Give anyone who is prepared to stand against the PAP a fighting chance to prove herself or himself.

4) Lets not be childish and keep labelling people who you do not like as pro-pap. Do not cut off your nose to spite your face. You fall into the PAP's trap by continuing to condem all opposition parties that are eligible to contest the elections. You know that the PAP likes it because they get to retain their seats intact.

scroobal,

makes you wonder sometimes whose side this CJK chap is on....

 

[char_jig_kar]

Exactly,you shld still vote for these pple even if they are all screwballs (scroobal -pardon the pun). The grand idea is to cut the PAPvotes. No matter what the PAP wants you to fear that there will be a freak election, high chances are an Opp grand victory win will not come about. What is likely to happen is if you do as you shld do, the margins of PAP wins in each GRC/ward will be narrower. That is shock therapy for the PAP. They can't stand that! So they will still have that majority number of seats in Parliament and still rule, but there will be more Opp who can walk in as NCMPs, and the PAP will be humiliated. These NCMPs will then have a chance at last to prove themselves until the next election.

it wont work. u get screwballs PAP apologist to check on PAP, that would not move thing forward. its a setback for Singapore political system. its inertia for our political progress.

 

[char_jig_kar]

Bro, can I just appeal to you for the sake of this country's future alonf these lines

1) Lets not get into petty squabbles about which opposition party likes to wear yellow coloured or pink coloured underwear. Or even if an underwear is ever worn. These have no relevance with the mission at hand of moving towards a multi-party system.

for the politicians and political party, of course their political inclination matters. therefore, it will not move things forward if u get PAP apologist to check on the PAP.

2) Lets focus on reducing the numbers of PAP seats to aleast force them to be responsive and receptive to the public and stop the widening gaps between elite and the rest.

its a illusion. PAP apologist checking on PAP, that's just a wayang show. it will not help in spore's political development. its just marching on the spot. it looks grand, and sounds great, but none is moving forward.

3) Give anyone who is prepared to stand against the PAP a fighting chance to prove herself or himself.

sure. they wanna prove themselves? then stop being a PAP apologist. simple as that.

4) Lets not be childish and keep labelling people who you do not like as pro-pap. Do not cut off your nose to spite your face. You fall into the PAP's trap by continuing to condem all opposition parties that are eligible to contest the elections. You know that the PAP likes it because they get to retain their seats intact.

its not labeling people who i don't like as pro-pap. i didn't condemn ALL OPPOSITION PARTIES. i condemn the PAP apologist and wannabes in the Opposition camp.