Chitchat Only a software glitch - train collision

[nayr69sg]

Sinkies dumb lah. Next GE still vote KBW and PAP

 

[congo9]

Pay them decent salary. But over time , their salary will rise.
As for SW, they need no pay. All you need is to constant update and upgrade. Get people to debug and put on patches. When freak accident happen, all you need is to pay the medical and some court fees if everything is not according to plan.

As a business man, i am for SW to help to drive. My long term cost is lot more cheaper.
As a layman, i am for driver with SW help. it make me feel safer . If SW fail, driver will kick in. If driver fail, SW will kick in.

But then in this case, both failed at the same time. Pathetic ...

 

[Seee3]

'moving block' system will stop all trains if the system cannot identify the location and length of one of the trains.

If a train stalled because signal from the last car is intermittently disrupted, the system will stop all trains. To recover this train one can either repair or replace the signal transmitter of the last car. Maybe an easier way is to switch off the signal from the last car and switch on the transmitter from another car.

No problem if it is a fixed block system because no train will move into the station as long as there is a train in it (the station is definitely designated as one of the fixed block).

Things change operating under moving block system. When the signal from the last car is switched off and the signal from another car is activated, the system will recalibrate the length of the train and the moving block. The system will register that the train is shorter as it decides on the length of the train based on signal from the 1st and last car. It didn't know that the end signal is not coming from the last car.

With a shorten train length, the moving block will be shortened and the system will move the rear train forward.

Above is based on the little knowledge of a layman on the operation of signal system. Please feel free to correct all errors.

 

[kkbutterfly]

must have over dug and injured the dragon veins.
$1 Bagua coins can no longer suppress the angry dragon. That's why all lines have endless problems.
They need to engage the same fengshui master who draft for mbs's FS to see if she can suppress the angry dragon.

 

[Seee3]

In their report they said that the driver inadvertently switched off the safety feature of the first train.

A more accurate description may be that the driver switched off the signal transmitter of the last train car, NOT KNOWING that it is a safety feature that stops the train behind from moving.

In fixed block system, the station itself is the safety feature. As long as the system detects that there is a train in that location, no other train can move in there.

In 'moving block' system, the signal from the last car helps the system to decide where the rear train should stop. Therefore, if signal from the 6th car is switched off and that from the 3rd car is activated, the system will conclude that the rear train can move forward by 3 car length and cause a collision.

 

[zhihau]

That sounds like the smoking gun!

 

[sweetiepie]

In their report they said that the driver inadvertently switched off the safety feature of the first train.

A more accurate description may be that the driver switched off the signal transmitter of the last train car, NOT KNOWING that it is a safety feature that stops the train behind from moving.

In fixed block system, the station itself is the safety feature. As long as the system detects that there is a train in that location, no other train can move in there.

In 'moving block' system, the signal from the last car helps the system to decide where the rear train should stop. Therefore, if signal from the 6th car is switched off and that from the 3rd car is activated, the system will conclude that the rear train can move forward by 3 car length and cause a collision.

my uncle say after reading your post, he feel that mrt driver carry more heavy responsibility than what he thought.
He say the salary is far below that of a pilot. He also say mrt driver should have first officer, 2nd officer and captain. Where is the first and 2nd officer and they should carry a briefcase of manuals on a trolley.

 

[halsey02]

In their report they said that the driver inadvertently switched off the safety feature of the first train.

A more accurate description may be that the driver switched off the signal transmitter of the last train car, NOT KNOWING that it is a safety feature that stops the train behind from moving.

In fixed block system, the station itself is the safety feature. As long as the system detects that there is a train in that location, no other train can move in there.

In 'moving block' system, the signal from the last car helps the system to decide where the rear train should stop. Therefore, if signal from the 6th car is switched off and that from the 3rd car is activated, the system will conclude that the rear train can move forward by 3 car length and cause a collision.

In their report, did they mention the Nationality of the driver?. or did the driver, volunteered to drive the train on the day of the accident?, for the actual driver was on a skiving certificate, oops!, Sick Certificate...or the driver had the heart for SMRT..volunteered??

We can explain & explain till the cows come home....we will still be back to the same basic, the government is inefficient & is now watered down to anything the owned or have their hands on it. No use explaining, they will just, "improved" on it & get whatever going again & somewhere down the future, the same thing will occur again. The same will repeat itself, the top will never be sacked...only the common garden variety type, workers.

If Cow$8 have honour....like he pointedly told the WP, COMMIT HARAKIRI....you think he has that kind of honour?

 

[hofmann]

The solution are automated trains. Robots don't accidentally make mistakes, only the ones they are programed to.

my uncle say after reading your post, he feel that mrt driver carry more heavy responsibility than what he thought.
He say the salary is far below that of a pilot. He also say mrt driver should have first officer, 2nd officer and captain. Where is the first and 2nd officer and they should carry a briefcase of manuals on a trolley.

 

[hofmann]

To be fair, the government is still pretty good at the other stuff they do, like housing as some have pointed out.

The specific problem is the MRT and transport. Ministry of transport was spun off in 2001 (same time frame as appoint of saw) and since then, we've had a string of failures in the ministry.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_for_Transport_(Singapore)

I'm certain there's a connection between the start of our transport woes and the creation of the ministry in 2001.

In their report, did they mention the Nationality of the driver?. or did the driver, volunteered to drive the train on the day of the accident?, for the actual driver was on a skiving certificate, oops!, Sick Certificate...or the driver had the heart for SMRT..volunteered??

We can explain & explain till the cows come home....we will still be back to the same basic, the government is inefficient & is now watered down to anything the owned or have their hands on it. No use explaining, they will just, "improved" on it & get whatever going again & somewhere down the future, the same thing will occur again. The same will repeat itself, the top will never be sacked...only the common garden variety type, workers.

If Cow$8 have honour....like he pointedly told the WP, COMMIT HARAKIRI....you think he has that kind of honour?

 

[Seee3]

The solution are automated trains. Robots don't accidentally make mistakes, only the ones they are programed to.

Changing from fixed block to moving block is in the direction of automation. NEL line is operating using moving block and they go driverless. However, I think they still need an attendant to take care of emergency.

Full automation cannot reset the operation when there is a faulty train. Human is still needed to recover and remove the faulty train from the track.

Drivers only follow instruction. The technical guy at site or from central control must know the system well to issue correct instruction.

 

[Leckmichamarsch]

did ah neh ftrash wrote the software? why isn't he identified??
why no thorough testing of the software before release - just like the DBS stock trading software I was irritated with - had to alert them 3 times for 3 diff problems!! No doubt Gupta got the el cheapo software from KelingLand!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dr.wailing]

So scary one.....

A software glitch led to a train collision.

What if it was a hardware glitch? Explosion?

 

[gatehousethetinkertailor]

 

[sweetiepie]

my uncle say khaw say heng ah, bo wah a dai chi oh..

 

[Seee3]

Amazing! The Moving block i.e. "protective bubble" of first train was removed by a trackside device. If there is no protection bubble from the first train, why did the 2nd train actually stopped about 10m away and only started to move again 1 minute later? Might as well say the bubble was burst by a prick.

Contractor didn't swallowed a dead cat but a dead tiger.

 

[virus]

$8 cowdung has a lot of thales to sell... if only he listen to the wisdom of ancient china he could have save us plenty of cash and no need to raise tax. paying more tax for incompetent leedership is not a solution.

 

[gatehousethetinkertailor]

 

[halsey02]

To be fair, the government is still pretty good at the other stuff they do, like housing as some have pointed out.

The specific problem is the MRT and transport. Ministry of transport was spun off in 2001 (same time frame as appoint of saw) and since then, we've had a string of failures in the ministry.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_for_Transport_(Singapore)

I'm certain there's a connection between the start of our transport woes and the creation of the ministry in 2001.

To be fair, it is not, we want to point at them for how the country is being run or what they are good or not good at. We are talking about about hiding under layers of incompetency & paying through our noses for people who are just that & the worse part, they will still stick around & collect, benefits etc. I am working in the private sector, I have performances like the MOT or!...I would have been given the WC ( walking certificate) the minute I step into office & will be escorted off the office & building in which the office is locate by the security staff.

Mechanical things breakdown over time, hardware wears out, software needs to be updated & upgraded, that we and all the ah pek at the coffee shop will understand.

Did Desmond Kwek offered to resign? or 'un-volunteer' himself?, or Khaw, say the same thing for not able to run a ministry efficiently...or commit harakiri as he so pointedly said to the oppositions??

I am not against the PAP, I grew up with them...you mentioned HDB..I grew up with HDB...& so many other government bodies, that made Singapore, is today.

We have an inefficient leader who leads a team of equally inefficient people & there is absolutely no check & balnaces & if there are implemented by them , it like the local saying " ownself, check ownself".

It is not what they are good at & not good....they are paid salaries that is the most expensive on this planet earth, they should be VERY GOOD & any of them fail, THEY MUST BE BOOTED OUT like in the private sector & Khaw should 'commit hara kiri".

Are we waiting for a software glitch, a maintenance guffaw, or blame it on god incident that happen, that people died travelling on the trains?? then, we sit up & say....we will still vote for the PAP.

 

[Seee3]

More nonsense to confuse the public. Let's get the fact clear :

1. From Pasir Ris to Ponieer it is under old system - fixed block, so train behind cannot move if the 'fixed block' in from is occupied.

2. From Pioneer to Tua, it is under their so-called bubble system, ie moving block

For moving block system, the key safety feature is that when any one train loses its "protective bubble", the system will stop all trains under automatic mode. That was what happened to the circle line the last time. The system kept receiving conflicting signals.

So we can override the system to go on restricted manual mode as reported. Isn't it a clear breach of safety rule to allow a faulty train to operate on manual mode without a protective bubble and at the same time allowing the trains behind to continue on automatic mode; knowing that the system cannot "sense" the faulty train. They have also not explained why the 2nd train knew how to stop 36m away if there was no bubble in front before moving off again 1 minute later.

Notice that the 6 car and 3 car info is now not in the explanation.