Nur Dianah's Article & the Big Guns of Humanity

[shOUTloud]

Precisely why it is a great article. folks should re-read the article again with this in mind. That was the main thrust of the article.

There will always be stereotypes. I am sure the minorities view the Chinese as money grabbing heartless creatures. Shall we start beating our chests about it?

The thing is respect has to be earned. You cannot demand it cos even if you get it from demand, you will feel that it is cheapened. This is a paradox that we need to solve.

If the Malay community feels that their current lifestyles are the best, then there is nothing to be ashamed about. There is no need to spend hundreds of dollars voting for Taufik.

There are pple who actually respect and admire the Malays for having the mentality to take it easy and not be too stressed.

BUT ... they felt the need to celebrate the top-scoring PSLE girl.

What does that mean? They chose to cast aside their own yardsticks and use other pple's yardsticks to measure themselves. Why?

Maybe Nur Dianah should continue to do some more soul searching.

 

[scroobal]

It is such an irony.

So many people tried to keng and siam NS (army) or hope to go to NS (police) so as to avoid all the strenuous physical training. Better still, if can get exempted, that would be something worth celebrating.

No one in his right mind will do NS. Thats why its mandatory. If you are the only kid in the block that is exempted for a non-medical reason, you stand out and aspersions are cast at you. There is also the point that "you have not served the country" tag for the rest of your life.

Human beings are gregarious animals. They seek acceptance in society and if the price is a painful initiation such as NS and done in numbers, people will do it.

When you were a kid and you were not invited to a birthday party, how did you feel. When you are an adult and again you are not invited by the same lot. Not an irony is it?

What amazes me in this thread is that people immediately assumed that she was asking for special privileges. I guess we are all not immuned to stereotyping.

 

[scroobal]

Dear Scroobal,

I had read the article previously and now that I re-read it again, I am still unsure what she is trying to say.

1. Is she asking for the government not to discriminate against Malays? Ok, fine but is discrimination by the government the roots of Malays' problems? Will getting one Malay general, two Malay ministers and three Malay GLC CEOs turn their community into an economic powerhouse?

Look at Malaysia and Indonesia and their struggles so far. Is it really so simple?

2. Is she exhorting her community to wake up? Somehow I dun see that coming through.

The thing is that I see the Malay community moving in the similar direction as the Indian community. Instead of a diamond shaped social strata with a large middle class, it might become a pear with a small top tier and a big fat bottom. But who is to blame?

The government? Why? Because they dun allow the Malays to join the Armour troopers or Commandoes?

Please give me a break!

You are right, you still don't get it, just as the Indon Malays, the Malaysian Malays and the Vietnamese who sent their ethnic minority Chinese adrift in the high seas. In all these cases the majority have a long way to go.

 

[shOUTloud]

When a pregnant woman asks for a seat to be given up for her in a MRT, she is asking for a privilege. It is not an entitlement.

When a blind man asks for someone to help him across the road, he is asking for a privilege. It is not an entitlement.

When a minority asks for respect, is it an entitlement or privilege? Respect has to be earned. No other way about it. I just feel that an important issue, NS, has been blown out of proportion by someone who does not even need to do NS. We can have a Malay Chief of Army but so what, the community will still feel disadvantaged.

If you read the stupid racist writeup by Afian (spelling?), it was even worse. Now we have to apologise for being uncomfortable with people who wrapped up their women (including children) because they cannot deal with their own lust. We have to apologise for a Malay officer striving to prove that he is as good as the rest (and so have to tekan a Malay OCT harder).

Look at the Indian community, we have so many Indian ministers and professionals. All at the top of their game. But we also have the other end of their social strata. Does their community walk around with a puffed-up chest or are they wallowing in self pity? I dun know the real answer as the Indians I know are top professionals and the Indians I read in the papers kill their girlfriends and beat their wives.

 

[shOUTloud]

You are right, you still don't get it, just as the Indon Malays, the Malaysian Malays and the Vietnamese who sent their ethnic minority Chinese adrift in the high seas. In all these cases the majority have a long way to go.

yeah, this whole discussion really goes over my head.

 

[scroobal]

When a pregnant woman asks for a seat to be given up for her in a MRT, she is asking for a privilege. It is not an entitlement.

When a blind man asks for someone to help him across the road, he is asking for a privilege. It is not an entitlement.

When a minority asks for respect, is it an entitlement or privilege? Respect has to be earned. No other way about it. I just feel that an important issue, NS, has been blown out of proportion by someone who does not even need to do NS. We can have a Malay Chief of Army but so what, the community will still feel disadvantaged.

If you read the stupid racist writeup by Afian (spelling?), it was even worse. Now we have to apologise for being uncomfortable with people who wrapped up their women (including children) because they cannot deal with their own lust. We have to apologise for a Malay officer striving to prove that he is as good as the rest (and so have to tekan a Malay OCT harder).

Look at the Indian community, we have so many Indian ministers and professionals. All at the top of their game. But we also have the other end of their social strata. Does their community walk around with a puffed-up chest or are they wallowing in self pity? I dun know the real answer as the Indians I know are top professionals and the Indians I read in the papers kill their girlfriends and beat their wives.

Thats why I like anon forums. People pour our their feelings and one gets a reasonable reading than the press or the politically correct open discussions. Note your first post and this.

Its one good way to seek and address what needs to be done. There is no doubt that we all have to pull up our bootstraps. She also noted that they have do much more than the rest and she is right.

 

[Hakka Tiow]

Yes, yes, yes.......................... Hope we can all lay our cards on the table and work towards a common goal.

Hi Scroobal,
As an obvious intellectual, why don't you lead the way to offer ideas and solutions to this issue and galvanise others to do so as well before the PAP hijack, spin and claim it as their own agenda.

 

[Hans168]

I hv a neighbour - Chinese woman married to a Malay. Their daughter is intelligent - graduated as dental student. Went to UK for further degree but told parents she will be staying back in UK.... does it mean she get better recognised there with her tudung? Should not a Malay like her be back in sg????

 

[Hans168]

Nur Dianah should go more often to Geylang Serai, Chinatown & Little India - just to compare the 3. Soon she will discover how wrong she has been in wallowing in the cesspool.

 

[HalalOink]

Nur Dianah is staying in the Geylang Serai area, well at least from what I know, her parents do... If I'm not wrong her father is a well known figure in the Malay community...

 

[shOUTloud]

Thats why I like anon forums. People pour our their feelings and one gets a reasonable reading than the press or the politically correct open discussions. Note your first post and this.

Its one good way to seek and address what needs to be done. There is no doubt that we all have to pull up our bootstraps. She also noted that they have do much more than the rest and she is right.

maybe I have become a racist over the years or I am just not aligned with the sufferings of the minority in Singapore. I still cannot understand her grief. I guess I am too out of touch in this topic.

 

[scroobal]

maybe I have become a racist over the years or I am just not aligned with the sufferings of the minority in Singapore. I still cannot understand her grief. I guess I am too out of touch in this topic.

No bro, you are certainly not a racist. I have seen your posts/comments before over the years. Its fair and straight forward. Its just that we tend to move away from things that impede our goals or things that we think are not working well.

Clearly the challenge is more on the Malays as a community to stop giving excuses and amend those issues that are they are aware of and in a position to do something about.

What we have to do for want of a better argument, is to remove aspects of inequality that we created so that excuses if any are taken away. Then the ball is in their court.

I am just delighted that she did not ask for special treatment. Its not like the Sikhs in Southall, London marching down main street asking for Punjabi to be in the school curriculumn. I will be the first one to tell them to hop back to India.

 

[Hans168]

Osman Harun or O Wok??

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Yes, yes, yes.

Now exacerbated by the PAPs well intended but badly executed FT policy. Ironically I think Singaporeans were more united and inclusive in the 70s and early 80s, a concrete example being the Kallang Roar of consistently over 50k true born and bred Singaporeans of all races (I was one of them with my Dad, Grandad and brothers) cheering on the Lions made of true born and bred Singaporeans of all races from Eric Payne, Samad Alipitchai, Quah Kim Song, Mohd Noir and S Rajagopal to Fandi, not forgetting the late Uncle Choo as coach. And Singaporean generations X, Y, Z and beyond would do well to remember that true born and bred Singaporeans in the form of Wong Peng Soon;Ong Poh Lim and Ismail Marjan actually won All England and Thomas Cups for Singapore(Malaya) in the 50s.

AOur outward show of harmony towards race and religion has not yet translated into true inclusiveness.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

On the issue of the HDB ethnic quota policy, I do not question the basic rationale of the policy which is obviously well intended. What I seriously question however is the way it has and is being executed i.e. the unreasonable, unfair and inequitable financial pain that the ethnic minorites have to sometimes bear as a result of the same. This is NOT good in the long run and something practical and constructive should be done about it asap.

I have never doubted the PAP's political motives in forced segregation so as to removed pockets of concentrated racial based votes. I would also add that for those who have seen the UK and seen how allowing british communities to congregate together has lessened British Muslim Integration in society as a whole. Forced integration is definitely the lesser of the two evils and helps create a far more tolerant color blind society. Are we perfect ? Not by a long shot but I believe that if there was no "forced" living together things would be a lot lot worse.


Locke

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Perhaps the comments below may address your question

[COLOR="Magenta[B]"]"This is an article which needed to be written. Some of the discriminatory practices against the minorities (whether intentional or otherwise) should be highlighted. Of course, it would have helped the cause better if someone from the majority group had pointed out these practices. But such observations seem to be in short supply, and so the minorities have to speak for themselves - even though we may be potrayed as adopting a victim's persona."[/[/B]COLOR]Kanwaljit Soin

"Ms Nur Dianah Suhaimai's essay made all the non-Malay Singaporeans more aware of how our Malay compatriots feel about being Singaporeans."Tommy Koh

I wish everyone well but I am still not sure the reason for that article.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

I shall leave Lockeliberal to answer for himself, but as for Dianah, I don't think she was calling for "affirmative action/bumi policy", at all I should add. The gist of her grouses (valid or otherwise) can be summed up by her title "The least favourite child" i.e. the feeling that the Singapore Malays are not fully trusted and respected as equal Singaporeans by non Singapore Malays.

As for the formation of political parties based soley on ethnicity and religion, I say thread with great caution in Singapore's context i.e. multi-racial, multi-religious, multi-cultural society. For a wise, erudite and insightful analysis on this very same issue I suggest you go read a recently published book on the writings of one of Singapore's great thinkers, the late S Rajaratnam. In short, Rajaratnam opined that these sort of political parties would invariably play into the hands of the ethnic majority chauvinists who would slyly support ethnic minorities to form their own political parties and thereafter 'sweep the decks' when the ethnic majority party(s) inevitably rule supreme because of the numbers game.

So are we talking for a start, some sort of mini affirmative action, bumiputra policy here? I remember SM Goh's words or something to that effect, in reaction to the tudung controversy some years back, " If we give them that,
what will they ask for next?"

To fast track the aspirations for change, why not form a political party. That way who knows, as a coalition member they can made demands which would be given better consideration than the present status quo.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

[COLOR="Magenta[B]"]"...However, while I wish for fairer judgment from others, it is equally critical for the Malay community not to be haunted by fear of stereotype and discrimination. Though alluring and convenient, the use of discrimination to explain all our failures can do great harm to our spirit."[/B][/COLOR]
Khartini Khalid

"...Being critical of the Malays is not racism but judging a person based on racial stereotypes is. While Singapore extols fairness and equality and has done much to reduce racism, it still exists and will continue to do so. Why? Because of the inherent nature of human beings. We have our flaws afterall, and prejudice, sadly, is one of them. If we really cannot eliminate it, what we can do is to minimise it as much as possible."
Natasha Majeed

Nowhere in that article did she ask for special privileges, access to jobs, or any form of affirmative action or special treatment. She basically does not want the race to be treated as pariahs. They are prepard to do NS like any other Singaporean. They also do not want to be stereotyped. Its also a lesson to the Malays not to be parochial ie. Taufik affair.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

To be treated as EQUAL Singaporeans Bro, to be accorded the same trust and respect that is accorded to fellow NON Singapore Malays.

Btw care to elaborate on this statement of yours?:

The thing is that I see the Malay community moving in the similar direction as the Indian community. Instead of a diamond shaped social strata with a large middle class, it might become a pear with a small top tier and a big fat bottom.

Dear Scroobal,

I had read the article previously and now that I re-read it again, I am still unsure what she is trying to say.

1. Is she asking for the government not to discriminate against Malays? Ok, fine but is discrimination by the government the roots of Malays' problems? Will getting one Malay general, two Malay ministers and three Malay GLC CEOs turn their community into an economic powerhouse?

Look at Malaysia and Indonesia and their struggles so far. Is it really so simple?

2. Is she exhorting her community to wake up? Somehow I dun see that coming through.

The thing is that I see the Malay community moving in the similar direction as the Indian community. Instead of a diamond shaped social strata with a large middle class, it might become a pear with a small top tier and a big fat bottom. But who is to blame?

The government? Why? Because they dun allow the Malays to join the Armour troopers or Commandoes?

Please give me a break!

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Do you have to earn the right to be "trusted", especially after 43 years of Independence?

The thing is respect has to be earned. You cannot demand it cos even if you get it from demand, you will feel that it is cheapened. This is a paradox that we need to solve.

.