NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Election

[elephanto]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

We seem to be talking about two different times.

Regardless, for me it is as simple as voting into parliament, the people that will safeguard my socoi-economic well-being, allow for freedom of expression without indulging in hate mongering, allow for a vigorous and truthful media, allow for interested parties to participate freely in all aspects of civil society without fear, promote economic and social progress amongst the population etc etc etc.

In short, all the good things that a decent and honest government should provide to their citizens.

So we have common ground. I believe the vast majority of forummers here will want the above too.

IN 45 years of PAP rule, they have done nothing but to impose economic slavery on their citizens and dealt multiple death blows to any decent, able and caring opposition.

This is an extreme sweeping statement. Be fair, CAN'T be nothing

Those who think that the PAP will win the next GE should join the PApies

This is a Fascist statement.
You have to strike a balance between having a sense of reality & working towards ensuring better governance.


As I have said previously, the 33% have to do their part. The 66% are still your fellow citizens.

This is what I find totally disagreeable. 33% have to do their part? They have DONE their part by voting for the opposition !

The other 66% must ACT & seize their moment of truth ! you can't make the 33% responsible for ongoing PAP dominance !

Do your part to convince the 66%.

Agree. like what you are doing here - venting, criticising, encouraging, sharing POVs BUT the onus is NOT on the 33% to convince the 66%s


The end must come for the PAPies. You have a choice. Either you vote for the PAP or you vote for yourself, your family and your loved ones. It's you or them. And you know where their allegiance lies. Do you know where your allegiance lies?

PAP must be pressured & sent a powerful message from the electorate.

But you throw them out IMMEDIATELY, is an alternative govt IMMEDIATELY available ?

Throw them out at once and INSTANTLY our woes solved & all the complexities of policy & governing gone ?

Our main difference is the speed of change & ways of change - violent or in phases.

This dilemma is akin to that faced by Chinese parents in the 50s/60s/70s. They love their Chinese heritage but will send children to English schools for practical reasons.

Many Singaporeans have the same aspiration of government as described by you at the beginning of this post.

But they will vote PAP for track record on govt & hopefully return 5-8 maybe even 10 opposition MPs for a start to nurture the development of alternative govt.

This is not having your cake & eat it - it should be more Singaporeans' unique way of evolving your governing institution - Parliament.

Civil Society / Political associations / NGOs must all contribute to ideas & policy alternatives - isn't 'active citizenry' an S21 pillar too ?

 

[zujjkiol]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

Opposition parties respond to ESC report

SINGAPORE: Several opposition parties have responded to the Economic Strategies Committee's (ESC) report and in general, they felt the recommendations were a thrust in the right direction - though more could be done.

While the Workers' Party will give its views when Parliament debates the Budget in March, when Singapore People's Party secretary-general Chiam See Tong will also have a chance to respond, other parties not represented in Parliament seized the chance to comment yesterday.

The Reform Party and National Solidarity Party (NSP) cited similar aspects of the report for discussion: The lot of low-wage workers, ways to help local small-and-medium enterprises and how the economy should grow.

In a media statement, Reform Party secretary-general Kenneth Jeyaretnam called for a minimum wage - in tandem with the proposed hike in foreign worker levies - to "force" employers to use labour more productively. He said the ESC's suggestion to raise levies "may be a means of achieving the same goal but does not directly raise or put a floor under the wages of less-skilled Singaporean workers".

He added: "It may look more efficient on economic grounds, but if employers go further afield in search of cheaper and cheaper labour, it may nullify the effects of the increased levy."

The NSP did not offer suggestions on how to help low-wage workers, but secretary-general Goh Meng Seng felt the ESC should not dissect the economic issues without considering the social, cultural and political ramifications. "We need a more holistic approach instead of formulating quick fixes for short term gains," he said.

On ways to encourage more start-ups, both parties agreed Government-linked companies hindered the growth of local SMEs. The NSP said the Government should "provide funds and facilities for technological research and upgrading SMEs into Original Equipment Manufacturers". If not, local SMEs would remain "mere vendors providing parts and services for MNC plants".

Mr Jeyaretnam suggested "dismantling or privatising the whole GLC structure", including Temasek Holdings and the Government of Singapore Investment Corporation.

On the ESC's suggestions for growing Singapore into a Global-Asia Hub, the Reform party said manufacturing should eventually comprise less than 20 to 25 per cent of the economy, as suggested by the ESC, "given Singapore's limited land and other resources".

Mr Goh suggested wooing regional economies to overcome constraints: "There's no mention whether Singapore will work actively towards a more comprehensive free trade zone in South-east Asia."

He also expressed concern at the possible plan to price energy to reflect real costs.

"Singapore's energy pricing is already on the high side in this region. We should take care of implementing pricing policy that would affect our cost of living, as well as doing business," he said.

The possibility of nuclear energy as an option for Singapore worried both parties, due to Singapore's small size and dense population.

Moreover, on the ESC's overarching theme of improving productivity, the Reform Party said it "supports in-principle the idea of a high-level national council to boost productivity".

As for higher investments in education, Mr Jeyaretnam said the target amount should rise to between 5 and 6 per cent of gross domestic product, from the current average of 2.8 per cent over the last five years, to be on par with other advanced countries.

Meanwhile, the Singapore Democratic Party called the ESC's suggestions "old wine in a new skin". SDP secretary-general Chee Soon Juan said: "Save for the development of nuclear power, haven't we heard all this before?"

He cited examples such as the Government's National Technology Plan in 1991 to become a world-class innovation-driven economy by 1995; the SME21 plan in 1996, targeted at helping start-ups; and the 2001 Economic Review Committee report, which touched on using levies to regulate the demand for foreign workers.

"If all these initiatives had been effective, why the persistent problem of declining productivity and the need for another report?" he said.

Dr Chee said it will present "concrete alternative proposals in the days and weeks ahead".

- TODAY/sc

 

[Perspective]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

I don't think Shin Leong will do that lah. Why would he want to do that?

I still maintain cordial relationship with WP. We have parted our ways but still keep in touch. Besides, it will make WP look pretty bad if it wants to send a team there for a 3 corner fight.

It is very clear from last week that PAP has identified NSP as the main opponent in Tampines. While MM Lee made his remarks about Mah BT has to defend his policies, it is pretty clear that it was a response to my minister-ministry-specific approach.

The sparring has begun with identified opponents. Even Today newspaper specifically wanted a response from me instead of WP. It is unwise for WP to step into the ring at half time.

Goh Meng Seng

The above reads like a discouragement or disagreement to have a 3 corner fight, for reasons I can understand. But from another (rarely articulated) point of view, voters have more choices. Would that not mean more options in PAP, NSP, WP, SDP, RP etc.

In summary, it can be argued that avoiding 3 corners and having concepts like "unwise" to come can be seen as anti-liberal.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

The above reads like a discouragement or disagreement to have a 3 corner fight, for reasons I can understand. But from another (rarely articulated) point of view, voters have more choices. Would that not mean more options in PAP, NSP, WP, SDP, RP etc.

In summary, it can be argued that avoiding 3 corners and having concepts like "unwise" to come can be seen as anti-liberal.

You have lost your perspective.

When you have a true multi-party parliament, multi-corners fight would be natural. I don't mind to have multi-corners fight actually in such situation. The system might have evolved into proportional representation by then. Or two or three different alliances. Whatever. As long as there is balance of power within the parliamentary powers like the Nordic countries, that's fine with me.

But in Singapore's present context, the main problem lies in the monopoly of power. The political/democratic development aim right now is so obvious to many people here, i.e. to break the monopoly of power.

Your writing here really reminds me of Yaw SL's rational in voting PAP; he has lost the perspective of present reality. With all those idealism of free choice, he has forgotten what he is fighting for, what he is standing for. Same for you here.

I could safely say that anyone who agrees to multi-corners fight in present Singapore's context are ones who have "highfalutin ideals" with no foot on the ground of reality.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Perspective]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

You have lost your perspective.

When you have a true multi-party parliament, multi-corners fight would be natural. I don't mind to have multi-corners fight actually in such situation. The system might have evolved into proportional representation by then. Or two or three different alliances. Whatever. As long as there is balance of power within the parliamentary powers like the Nordic countries, that's fine with me.

But in Singapore's present context, the main problem lies in the monopoly of power. The political/democratic development aim right now is so obvious to many people here, i.e. to break the monopoly of power.

Your writing here really reminds me of Yaw SL's rational in voting PAP; he has lost the perspective of present reality. With all those idealism of free choice, he has forgotten what he is fighting for, what he is standing for. Same for you here.

I could safely say that anyone who agrees to multi-corners fight in present Singapore's context are ones who have "highfalutin ideals" with no foot on the ground of reality.

Goh Meng Seng

Perhaps, but I think it is playing the devil's advocate either

If the monopoly of power was such an issue and/or the main issue, there should only be one opposition force. It is a fact that several opposition parties exist.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

Perhaps, but I think it is playing the devil's advocate either

If the monopoly of power was such an issue and/or the main issue, there should only be one opposition force. It is a fact that several opposition parties exist.

On the contrary, I think if there is one huge monopoly, there should be a few opposition parties to take it down. If there is only one slightly bigger ship and it was sunk totally, there will be no lifeboats for all.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Perspective]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

On the contrary, I think if there is one huge monopoly, there should be a few opposition parties to take it down. If there is only one slightly bigger ship and it was sunk totally, there will be no lifeboats for all.

Goh Meng Seng

This is not disagreeable. But if I apply the same theory, this is when you have all parties including PAP relatively the same size. But in Singapore's present context where all parties add together cannot total to the size of the PAP, so applying the same theory of reducing monopoly, all parties should be one.

On your newest theory, I don't see any indication that the PAP can "sink" any "ship" totally. Even if it could, I don't think any other smaller, what you refer to as "ships", can take over. Also, the "bigger ship" tends to rub off on the "smaller ships". On the whole, the theory is moot.

I am in favour of avoiding 3 corner fights because for "small ants", any pie is big, and not for the reason that it makes people look "bad" and "unwise". The difference is that the former minimises 3 corners and come to it only if need be, the latter says, "This is my turf, you die die don't come please" which is my impression of the post I first replied to.

There might a day where every party can field nearly all the seats yet the PAP continues to win all except one or two. I wonder if your theory when applied means any opposition party which can field 84 candidates in a monopoly should withdraw most of them for the sake of monopoly.

We also need to differentiate between a 3 corner in one GRC and a 3 corner in every contested GRC. If it is 3 corner everywhere, yes, but a 3 corner in a minority does not mean people do not want to beat monopoly. It only means the existence of several parties are causing criss-crosses.

 

[fivestars]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

The public will happy to see Opposition Unite and contest with PAP old folk home.

Who to contest let the Party CEC to decide.

Which party to contest let SDP, NSP, WP, RP and SDA CEC to debate. No solution, SDA and NSP had to decide 5 parties voting. If SDP, NSP and SDA vote NSP, WP vote WP and RP vote RP, majority win will contest the GRC. It is fair.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

I guess you get the context all mixed up.

When the opponent is one big elephant and as you said, all parties come together will not be even half of it, do you seriously think that combining together and fight a conventional warfare will give you victory?

It will need a multi-prone approach and a single entity with single strategy alone may not be able to achieve the ultimate aim. For example, it will take a diverse strategy to fight PAP on all fronts right now. From the conservative WP to the NVA strategy of SDP. If we stick to either one of them, we may not see progress.

Only when you start off with a diverse number of parties, then at the end of the day, when the elephant falls, we could see true multi-party system building up.

Having said that, while all parties are using different strategy, it is important to bear in mind that at this very moment, we have a common aim and we should not dilute our overall effort.

Apparently you show displeasure of NSP stating their turf early. There is nothing wrong with that. As far as I am concern, it is just a continuity of what NSP has done in the past, contesting in Tampines. Besides, we prefer to lit the fire as early as possible and indeed, we have successfully raise awareness and profile of Tampines contest with a calibrated measures and strategy. It would be rather opportunistic for others trying to ride on this tide. The situation is just like NSP and PAP have already started warming up and throwing punches in the boxing ring and other people try to jump into the ring half time.

While other parties may have their many concerns and for whatever reasons that they do not want to "show their cards" or start engaging PAP on the electoral front, so be it. But there are no grounds for complain later.

Goh Meng Seng

This is not disagreeable. But if I apply the same theory, this is when you have all parties including PAP relatively the same size. But in Singapore's present context where all parties add together cannot total to the size of the PAP, so applying the same theory of reducing monopoly, all parties should be one.

On your newest theory, I don't see any indication that the PAP can "sink" any "ship" totally. Even if it could, I don't think any other smaller, what you refer to as "ships", can take over. Also, the "bigger ship" tends to rub off on the "smaller ships". On the whole, the theory is moot.

I am in favour of avoiding 3 corner fights because for "small ants", any pie is big, and not for the reason that it makes people look "bad" and "unwise". The difference is that the former minimises 3 corners and come to it only if need be, the latter says, "This is my turf, you die die don't come please" which is my impression of the post I first replied to.

There might a day where every party can field nearly all the seats yet the PAP continues to win all except one or two. I wonder if your theory when applied means any opposition party which can field 84 candidates in a monopoly should withdraw most of them for the sake of monopoly.

We also need to differentiate between a 3 corner in one GRC and a 3 corner in every contested GRC. If it is 3 corner everywhere, yes, but a 3 corner in a minority does not mean people do not want to beat monopoly. It only means the existence of several parties are causing criss-crosses.

 

[Perspective]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

I guess you get the context all mixed up.

When the opponent is one big elephant and as you said, all parties come together will not be even half of it, do you seriously think that combining together and fight a conventional warfare will give you victory?

It will need a multi-prone approach and a single entity with single strategy alone may not be able to achieve the ultimate aim. For example, it will take a diverse strategy to fight PAP on all fronts right now. From the conservative WP to the NVA strategy of SDP. If we stick to either one of them, we may not see progress.

Only when you start off with a diverse number of parties, then at the end of the day, when the elephant falls, we could see true multi-party system building up.

Having said that, while all parties are using different strategy, it is important to bear in mind that at this very moment, we have a common aim and we should not dilute our overall effort.

Apparently you show displeasure of NSP stating their turf early. There is nothing wrong with that. As far as I am concern, it is just a continuity of what NSP has done in the past, contesting in Tampines. Besides, we prefer to lit the fire as early as possible and indeed, we have successfully raise awareness and profile of Tampines contest with a calibrated measures and strategy. It would be rather opportunistic for others trying to ride on this tide. The situation is just like NSP and PAP have already started warming up and throwing punches in the boxing ring and other people try to jump into the ring half time.

While other parties may have their many concerns and for whatever reasons that they do not want to "show their cards" or start engaging PAP on the electoral front, so be it. But there are no grounds for complain later.

Goh Meng Seng

Firstly this is a discussion to stretch our mental defence and debate abilities including mine own. In such instances there's no right and wrong. It's always easy to talk to people who agree with us but I personally prefer to engage people who disagree with me. I don't about you though. But you don't need to convince me but people would question if your positioning modus operandi is like wanting the best of both worlds. Many people I'd come across would debate for or against what would suit them in Scenario A and B, without realising that the +ve he had stood for in A is actually the -ve he had debated against in B.

On your point now. "From the conservative WP to the NVA strategy of SDP." Therefore again applying the same logic, WP and SDP offers difference choices and along with PAP gives 3 different choices as disparate as to each other as they are to PAP. After all, based on this logic voters of WP should not be voting for SDP, and vice versa SDP voters do not vote for WP, similarly PAP voters do not vote for WP/SDP and vice versa, though like I said this is all hypothesis.

Lastly I'm fine if you wish to pepper your points with "getting context all mixed up" or "lost perspective" as they are subjective but I think as a politician and party leader one of your biggest problems would be "Apparently you show displeasure of NSP stating their turf early." I know conjured magic is fun but it's best to keep these online only, even then you have to hope that the MSM doesn't pick them up.

 

[Perspective]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

To add - I agree with not-one-party to take on the PAP, as all of them growing together would form a multiparty environment. But one who argues for true multipartisanship, which can occur even in the event of monopoly, must not be too disagreeable that it comes in the form of several choices for a voter.

As opposition parties are close to covering all the wards in Singapore - we might even have a full contest in this year's election - the next election in 2015 could see unavoidable 3 corners as each starts to grow. Telling others not to come may seems a bit defeatist.

On your point on NSP preparing early, it is a very good move. It is even more important that NSP show fearlessless and forthcomingness in the event that the parties stated by the MSM to plan to go to Tampines (RP, SDP, WP - which I doubt so).

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

As I say, you have put the cart in front of the horse!

In this present context, there is a monopoly and the main aim is clear. In order to break the monopoly, the opposition parties cannot fight each other. Their efforts should be concentrated on reducing the power of PAP.

We could only talk about CHOICES if and only if WE HAVE THE ENVIRONMENT and CONDITIONS for having that! It is strange that for someone like you cannot understand this. It is just like saying you want to fly before even you can walk!

I do not think the opposition parties could cover all wards. In fact I would say that if you want to cover all wards it is very easy, just send dummies. But is that what you meant about choices?

The pie is big enough for this moment. While I do not discount the possibility of a multi-corner fight in future, but right now, no one party has any critical mass in parliament. The urgency is about breaking PAP's monopoly. not so much of going into multi-party contest to provide choices!

For the record, there will be no "TRUE MULTIPARTISANSHIP" when there is monopoly of power. You are truly mistaken.\

Goh Meng Seng

To add - I agree with not-one-party to take on the PAP, as all of them growing together would form a multiparty environment. But one who argues for true multipartisanship, which can occur even in the event of monopoly, must not be too disagreeable that it comes in the form of several choices for a voter.

As opposition parties are close to covering all the wards in Singapore - we might even have a full contest in this year's election - the next election in 2015 could see unavoidable 3 corners as each starts to grow. Telling others not to come may seems a bit defeatist.

On your point on NSP preparing early, it is a very good move. It is even more important that NSP show fearlessless and forthcomingness in the event that the parties stated by the MSM to plan to go to Tampines (RP, SDP, WP - which I doubt so).

 

[methink]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

GMS, You on the right track. Three corner fights are not favour by the people. We should be fighting the monster to get in parliament and not each other.

I hope to see you take on that little monster Mah Boh Tan and give the PAP a real humbling lesson!

Let this be a lesson to the BIG monster LKY that it is time for him to go too! We shall not be cowed by their threats!

 

[Robert Half]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

In Singapore. 3 corner fights will give PAP a great advantage & an opposition party may probably lose its election deposits

In Taiwan Presidential Election 2000, remember how DPP Ah Bian won 39.3% in the 3 ways fight
to become the first non-KMT President of Taiwan, ROC

 

[kingrant]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

3 corner fights or straight fights? Which is better? Why don't we try some math to do a what-if analysis?

Suppose in a 3 corner fight, we have the following outcome:

PAP: 40%, Opp party X: 30%, Opp party Y: 25%, rest :spoilt votes

So PAP wins by a slim majority. But actually, both Opp parties garnered a total of 55% even tho they lost.

This can mean that had they come together, they could have won with a 15% margin.

Suppose party Y didnt contest. There are 2 possibilities:

a. People who don't like X (for some reason) but felt they dont want to waste the vote on Y. People like Yaw. They might cast their votes for PAP.

Result: PAP's win 65% vs Opp. 30%

b. People who hated the PAP and it's all-or-nothing and will commit kamikaze (like me). So assume they'll pitch in all for the Opp party X.

Result: Opp party X wins 55% vs PAP 40%

Now suppose X didnt contest. The results will be :

a. PAP wins 70% vs Opp Y 25%
b. Opp Y wins 55% vs PAP 40%.

What can we conclude here? I would say the following:

1. with 3 corner fights, there are more choices for the voters. The result could reflect a lower overall majority to the PAP. In some cases, one of the Opp parties may win if it is particularly popular. In that case, it reverts to a virtual straight fight.

2. straight fights do seem advantageous for the Opp esp if the party is well prepared in that ward, with the general adverse sentiments against the PAP. Otherwise, the PAP can win with a bigger majority, if the voters are swayed by PAP's carrots and an Opp party with an unfavourable image there.

Welcome other conculsions from forum bros.

 

[kingrant]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

Also, if 2 strong opp parties go into a 3 corner, they'll kill each other to the great delight of PAP.

So Opp parties should come to an agreement not to fight in 3 corners if both are strong.

In straight fights, even a lesser party or an independent can win if the ground sentiment against PAP is very strong. But chances are the strong parties will come in then as predators.

 

[Sideswipe]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

why are we talking about 3 corners fight?

There has never been 3 corner GRC fights ever in our GE history. Independent candidates have disappeared for 2 GE already and are unlikely to return.

But last GE I think WP did say they want to contest Sembawang GRC then SDP suddenly appeared and targeted the GRC. Was WP AMK GRC team originally meant for Sembawang GRC?

 

[popdod]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

If oppositions still going for 3 corner fights in the coming election,
i think thatz it for singaporeans.


This is NOT the time to give voters the choice for different parties
but
how can we break this monopolised political party by consolidating our limited strength.

:( :o :(

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

If oppositions still going for 3 corner fights in the coming election,
i think thatz it for singaporeans.


This is NOT the time to give voters the choice for different parties
but
how can we break this monopolised political party by consolidating our limited strength.

:( :o :(

Please tell that to Perspective.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[popdod]

Re: NSP's Secretary General Goh Meng Seng said it intends to contest the General Elec

He can read lah...not as if he ish illiterate.

:( :o :(