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NSman who died had NOT submitted medical certificate
- Thread starter Maximilian Chua-Heng
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Have an MC? Say so
Corrupted PAP covering up...
http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/news/story/0,4136,178867,00.html?
Have an MC? Say so
NSmen say they didn't experience any stigma calling in sick
By Andre Yeo
October 04, 2008
EXERCISE: PteFoo was doing the routine morning 5BX when he collapsed at the chin-up bar. ST FILE PICTURE
HE had a medical certificate (MC) for a hamstring strain, yet he kept quiet about it.
Private Joe Foo Wei Rong, 20, of the 4th Battalion Singapore Infantry Regiment at Lim Chu Kang Camp 1, later collapsed and died after doing chin-ups.
They were part of the NSF's daily basic exercise routine, commonly known in the army as 5BX, which he would not have had to do if he had submitted his MC.
The question is: Why did Pte Foo not inform his camp of the MC?
Is there a stigma for doing so?
Four NSmen told The New Paper that they had never felt any such stigma.
Onus on individual
They also felt that it was the individual's responsibility to report his medical condition, even if there was 'perceived pressure' not to do so.
Pte Foo was doing some chin-ups when he fell at 6.05am and never regained consciousness. The Ministry of Defence initially thought he did not have any medical problems.
But on Tuesday, Pte Foo's father told The Straits Times his son had suffered a seizure in 2004 and had collapsed at home.
He said Pte Foo was also given three days' medical leave at the Singapore General Hospital for a hamstring strain.
Yesterday, Mindef released a statement saying it had discovered Pte Foo's MC in his cupboard, for medical leave from 28 to 29Sep for 'sprains and strains of knee and leg'.
The camp's medical centre has no records of Pte Foo's MC. He was also supposed to be on light duties from 30Sep to today.
Former NSFs said that if they felt unwell, they would report sick at their medical centres or inform their superiors if they had an MC from an external doctor.
Mr David Lee, 36, a business development manager, said he never felt pressured to not report sick if he had felt unwell.
He said: 'To be fair, I don't think our superiors ever pressured me not to take an MC. And these days, they are quite welfare-oriented.
'Maybe he (Pte Foo) felt there was no need to report sick given the type of training he knew he was going to undergo.
'Or maybe he did not want to go through the hassle of getting his MC endorsed at the medical centre.'
Mindef said MCs from outside doctors must be endorsed by camp doctors before they are accepted.
Marketing manager Crispian Leong, 36, also said his superiors never gave him any grief over his MCs.
He said: 'It's common for accidents to happen during training. So I felt I should pay more attention to my health. If you have an MC, be fair to yourself and tell your superiors.'
Others like production technician Syarul Nizam, 25, said some might not want to report sick for fear of being thought of as malingerers. He said he had never faced that problem but felt others might have been subjected to some unkind words.
He said: 'Some people might be influenced by comments that they were malingering, but you should not let that affect you.'
Mr Lyndon Chua, 32, recalled going through the standard obstacle course with a fever just to avoid returning for make-up training over the weekend.
He said: 'In hindsight, I should not have done it. People who do that are putting their lives at unnecessary risk.'
Perhaps some people have a wrong idea of what an MC really stands for.
A general practitioner, Dr Eric Chiam, 36, said patients must take their MCs seriously as they reflect a doctor's opinion of their fitness level for certain duties.
He said MCs are given on the basis that the patient is not well and should not go to work or perform certain duties.
He said: 'It's our advice to the patient based on what we see. We document it through the MC. When we prescribe medication, we expect the patient to consume it to get better.
'Similarly, when we prescribe rest or an excuse from a certain activity, we hope the patient would do the same.
'MCs represent our firm and final recommendation and we hope it would be followed through.'
Corrupted PAP covering up...
http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/news/story/0,4136,178867,00.html?
Have an MC? Say so
NSmen say they didn't experience any stigma calling in sick
By Andre Yeo
October 04, 2008
EXERCISE: PteFoo was doing the routine morning 5BX when he collapsed at the chin-up bar. ST FILE PICTURE
HE had a medical certificate (MC) for a hamstring strain, yet he kept quiet about it.
Private Joe Foo Wei Rong, 20, of the 4th Battalion Singapore Infantry Regiment at Lim Chu Kang Camp 1, later collapsed and died after doing chin-ups.
They were part of the NSF's daily basic exercise routine, commonly known in the army as 5BX, which he would not have had to do if he had submitted his MC.
The question is: Why did Pte Foo not inform his camp of the MC?
Is there a stigma for doing so?
Four NSmen told The New Paper that they had never felt any such stigma.
Onus on individual
They also felt that it was the individual's responsibility to report his medical condition, even if there was 'perceived pressure' not to do so.
Pte Foo was doing some chin-ups when he fell at 6.05am and never regained consciousness. The Ministry of Defence initially thought he did not have any medical problems.
But on Tuesday, Pte Foo's father told The Straits Times his son had suffered a seizure in 2004 and had collapsed at home.
He said Pte Foo was also given three days' medical leave at the Singapore General Hospital for a hamstring strain.
Yesterday, Mindef released a statement saying it had discovered Pte Foo's MC in his cupboard, for medical leave from 28 to 29Sep for 'sprains and strains of knee and leg'.
The camp's medical centre has no records of Pte Foo's MC. He was also supposed to be on light duties from 30Sep to today.
Former NSFs said that if they felt unwell, they would report sick at their medical centres or inform their superiors if they had an MC from an external doctor.
Mr David Lee, 36, a business development manager, said he never felt pressured to not report sick if he had felt unwell.
He said: 'To be fair, I don't think our superiors ever pressured me not to take an MC. And these days, they are quite welfare-oriented.
'Maybe he (Pte Foo) felt there was no need to report sick given the type of training he knew he was going to undergo.
'Or maybe he did not want to go through the hassle of getting his MC endorsed at the medical centre.'
Mindef said MCs from outside doctors must be endorsed by camp doctors before they are accepted.
Marketing manager Crispian Leong, 36, also said his superiors never gave him any grief over his MCs.
He said: 'It's common for accidents to happen during training. So I felt I should pay more attention to my health. If you have an MC, be fair to yourself and tell your superiors.'
Others like production technician Syarul Nizam, 25, said some might not want to report sick for fear of being thought of as malingerers. He said he had never faced that problem but felt others might have been subjected to some unkind words.
He said: 'Some people might be influenced by comments that they were malingering, but you should not let that affect you.'
Mr Lyndon Chua, 32, recalled going through the standard obstacle course with a fever just to avoid returning for make-up training over the weekend.
He said: 'In hindsight, I should not have done it. People who do that are putting their lives at unnecessary risk.'
Perhaps some people have a wrong idea of what an MC really stands for.
A general practitioner, Dr Eric Chiam, 36, said patients must take their MCs seriously as they reflect a doctor's opinion of their fitness level for certain duties.
He said MCs are given on the basis that the patient is not well and should not go to work or perform certain duties.
He said: 'It's our advice to the patient based on what we see. We document it through the MC. When we prescribe medication, we expect the patient to consume it to get better.
'Similarly, when we prescribe rest or an excuse from a certain activity, we hope the patient would do the same.
'MCs represent our firm and final recommendation and we hope it would be followed through.'
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Re: Have an MC? Say so
servicemen themselves arent qualified to assess their own physical condition. they may feel 100% on the morning of training, but in actual fact, they're probably 70-80%. nobody can really be certain of the level of muscle fatigue he's having.
let's not forget... they now pump our boys with water parade regime that is probably intense enough to drown a cow. so much water intake in a short span of 8hours, not forgetting before and/or after meals. including the last dosage before lights out....
all that amount of water intake would suffice to ensure that our boys visit the toilet several times in the night, n if they choose not to wake up to relief... they'd be encountering bladder and/or kidney problems... as well as water retention problems.
hence, during pre-training briefing.... when the conducting/ safety officer asks:
anybody nt feeling well?
anybody suffering from flu, fever, diarohea for the last 3days?
anybody didnt have 7hrs of (uninterrupted) sleep last night?
pls sound off now...
we can be sure that the entire coy is unfit for training, cos they keep waking up to pee. so if the section mates take turns to wake up n pee... how do we ensure uninterrupted sleep??
servicemen themselves arent qualified to assess their own physical condition. they may feel 100% on the morning of training, but in actual fact, they're probably 70-80%. nobody can really be certain of the level of muscle fatigue he's having.
let's not forget... they now pump our boys with water parade regime that is probably intense enough to drown a cow. so much water intake in a short span of 8hours, not forgetting before and/or after meals. including the last dosage before lights out....
all that amount of water intake would suffice to ensure that our boys visit the toilet several times in the night, n if they choose not to wake up to relief... they'd be encountering bladder and/or kidney problems... as well as water retention problems.
hence, during pre-training briefing.... when the conducting/ safety officer asks:
anybody nt feeling well?
anybody suffering from flu, fever, diarohea for the last 3days?
anybody didnt have 7hrs of (uninterrupted) sleep last night?
pls sound off now...
we can be sure that the entire coy is unfit for training, cos they keep waking up to pee. so if the section mates take turns to wake up n pee... how do we ensure uninterrupted sleep??
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who haven't reported sick before to MO? Everyone knows that camp MOs are the most cynical lot whenever anyone reporting sick to them...the first thing on their mind is that one is there to "keng"...
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now a days that three stripes counts for nothing...in the past you need to progress from CPL after passing out from Safinco or now SISPEC then probably get promoted to SGT after some time but now practically after passing out from SISPEC, all become "SARJUN"....like a mass production factory..
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during my time, i was among the early few to be interviewed for ocs, i declined, and they insisted i go sispec, hoping that i would see the 'light' and change my mind & cross-over to ocs. likewise i declined.
during PC interview for ocs/sispec, my reason given: "being a commander, regardless of rank, i'm not only charged/commissioned with responsibility to lead & inspire the men, but also the life & death of my men. holding the rank is no joke, and i do not intend to take that up, even if you force feed me.
on top of that, in doing so, i subject myself to extra years of service during reservist. i've got better things to do in life, than to serve extra years in a corp that trains on fiction. I just want to serve & complete my obligation and get on with my life"
my PC choked and fell silent (i'm very certain that he probably never thought about the invisible responsibilities of being a commander, and was awakened by my perspective). i was refered to my plt sgt & CSM for some brainwashing, but my decision didnt falter.
after the episode in BMT, i was posted to living hell, where i witnessed and was proven that my insights be true & correct, that the corp was made up of rice-bowl minded regulars (with little or no integrity for the man standing next to him, regardless of rank). they lived & breathed the motto 'just follow law'
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lol... the joke doesnt end there. they even have the cheek to call themselves 'specialist'.
in corps of other nationalities, sgt is sgt, specialist is specialist. they're different & seperate entities altogether. sgt is a rank (needless for explanation to the limitations of wat rank is all about), while specialist means, they're trained & proficient in specialized skills/ trg for specific task executions - fyi, their specialists can be of other ranks lower than sgt.
the doctrines in our armed forces is nothing but a big joke. trained on fictional basis, believing that our preconceived engagement ratio will win battles. but winning battles cant guarantee that we'd win wars.
they convince themselves on paper that we'd succeed in battles, totally forgetting all algorithms of other unexpected elements. ie: blown up bridges only moments b4 crossing, minimal or no terrain contour lines during planning to determine & ascertain feasibility of movement, realistic time to objective, unexpected mindfields to clear, kid themselves into believing that our troops can teleport themselves to objective location. all they ever think is, that the enemy is sleeping or welcomes us with red carpet & confetti.
if any here have ever set in the ops planning, they kid themselves into believing that we're only fighting man to man, flesh to flesh. while we believe that we'd cover troopers with arti-shellings on red land/army, they forget that red land/army can also return arti shells on our blue land/army too (which is potential to wipe out a good portion of our 'operational ready' & unsuspecting troopers on the ground).
simple basic neccessities for map reading, navigation (via compass and/or constellation), basic survival courses are only exclusive to commanders from sgt & above.... they kid themselves into believing that commanders have immunity against enemy frag. when in fact, such skills r necessary at individual level, as imperitive as 1st aid is knowledge is.
our army is nothing by wayang. when the commander is down, the section 2ic is clueless, cos he's never taught to read maps, he's never taught basic jungle survival. hence, if the re-supply train is intercepted by the enemy, all will go into 24hr ramadan.
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very unusual, can die after doing chin ups?
not unusual at all.....coz ns will kill us irregardless of wat we do......
itz hopeless.....he will wake up from his grave.....
..... still hlding his old golf balls !!
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The F@#K officer kill that NSman for no accepting the MC. I do believe that what happen.
Now must investigate what really happen to the MC slip. Check for the finger print if I'm the parent.
SAF will try very hard to cover up.
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No offense taken.
I "was" a 3rd sgt back in those days, i know what u r trying to say lolx, n it is all true. lolx
TT is why i seriously dun think PTE will no endose his 3days MC, be cos to any NSF, 3days of MC is god sent gift
think this issue will go down together with toilet break issue
Next time when submit MC do it infront of all you company. That will be prove if something happen due to OC reject the MC.
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company? lidat the related body have brainwash so many of them?
very tiring effort for them leh. spare sum thoughts can or not. they are paid very high to do lazy jobs wor.
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The F@#K officer kill that NSman for no accepting the MC. I do believe that what happen.
Now must investigate what really happen to the MC slip. Check for the finger print if I'm the parent.
SAF will try very hard to cover up.
Dun think PC or who ever in charge is in a position of rejecting the MC...even camp MOs...all need to do is present to medic who will submit to MO to endorse...
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