New developments to share

[snowbird]

MY implement new technology surely will experience severe teething issues. it's the "style".

I wonder if they ever conducted any serious trial runs before implementing them.
Anyway, all those "new technology" were now all mothballed and left to collect dust.
Another hundreds of millions of ringgit were just wasted.

 

[malpaso]

I wonder if they ever conducted any serious trial runs before implementing them.
Anyway, all those "new technology" were now all mothballed and left to collect dust.
Another hundreds of millions of ringgit were just wasted.

masuk one lah.

 

[teanotcoffee09]

In SG context, I feel the ability to rebuild also plays a part in determining the price leh. But I haven't visited enough landed projects in SG to get a clearer picture. My 'gut feel' is that all things being equal, individual titles will still carry a premium in SG compared to strata. That's just my gut feel though.....

However, I do have Singaporean friends who do not like SG strata-titled because of the inability to demolish and rebuild though. For Malaysia context, I guess that's only an issue come 30 years down the road, as strata titled landed is still a relatively new concept here.

Am I right to say if I don't want too drastic change in the appearance of my neighbourhood years down the road, better to stick with strata? I am looking at some private estates in SG where all houses look so different from one another. Really affects visual appearance of the whole neighbourhood.

Anyway, thanks for the good discussion between individual and strata title.

 

[malpaso]

Am I right to say if I don't want too drastic change in the appearance of my neighbourhood years down the road, better to stick with strata? I am looking at some private estates in SG where all houses look so different from one another. Really affects visual appearance of the whole neighbourhood.

Anyway, thanks for the good discussion between individual and strata title.

i must say in singapore, maybe you have a chance to have uniform looking houses if it's a strata titled development.
in johor, it may be difficult. even for strata, since malaysians are famous for bending rules. i/e anyhow huntum.

 

[ginfreely]

or setia staff gave misinformation, yes. they sometimes give misleading info. .

Strata title means common consensus. So you're right. After 5 years, setia will hand over to JMB. After that, our residents who form the committee will run the show, and we put it to a vote to ammend the by laws. Hence, the residents may decide, in due course, to allow extensions to the facade, or whatever changes in by laws - such as decreasing the maintenance fee or increasing, and so on. pretty much similar to singapore condo living. It will still remain strata. Strata means strata title, it can't be converted to individual lot, because then , who owns the land and roads and swimming pool But strata means ruling by committee and consensus, so we can change our own by law to allow extensions. Nothing to do with it being strata or not.

Also, I'm not defending strata or individual. i really don't know which is better. depends on one's needs.

edited: for eg: this may happen to old individual titled tamans where impromptu formed G&G schemes were implemented: (just saw this on star news): http://www.starproperty.my/index.ph...ates-and-barriers-in-three-pj-neighbourhoods/
http://www.starproperty.my/index.ph...ake-down-illegal-guard-booths-and-boom-gates/


roof leak for landed strata , take care from sinking fund? hmm. doesn't sound right. I believe it won't be. . from some other thread in SB here, I read that even cost of painting of the house external wall will be borne by individual owners, not from sinking fund (but we have to follow the color code given to maintain a uniform facade).

No, the salesperson say the voting after 5 years is for changing to individual title, not voting for extension, only if people voted to change to individual title then the extension is allowed. If strata also can do extension, then it is not strata as strata properties mean that the home owners only own the interior and the exteriors are the common property. If people can do extension on common property without taking ownership, this will pose problem in future like who'll maintain this extension? Especially when ownership change hands and the new owner may not agree to maintain the extension of the previous owner.

As for roof and exerior repairs and painting of landed properties taken care by management office, right or not I'm not sure but this is what I heard from Leisure farm salesperson for their terrace houses previously and it sure tallies to what I know strata properties are like SG strata condo, the roof and exterior repairs and painting are all taken care by management office - this I'm sure - only interior problem such as water leakage that is inter-floor is the responsibility of the owner (higher floor unit responsible 100%).

If the Msia strata landed houses expect the owners to paint the exterior walls, this will pose problems as such painting and repairs are usually required every five years for proper maintenance and upkeep and that is why the management office has to carry such major repairs and painting every five years. Leave it to the individual owners mean that sure there'll be owners who do not wish to carry out the painting every five years, maybe they want to do it only in the 6th or 10th year and that means the estate facade will be affected even if the same paint code is used.

As for the news you posted about old taman originally not being G&G and now set up barriers and the barriers get removed, I think the new G&G estates do not face the same issue as they were planned from the onset to be G&G including the roads. So far, haven't seen any too.

 

[ginfreely]

The 'price differential' is not valid in most cases. Note that Strata is priced psf (built up) whereas individual is priced psf (land). In SG, for the same piece of land size, the built up can be a few times more, hence lower strata psf.

Very few people realize this difference and hence many will make judgement by comparing apples with oranges.

Precisely the strata built up can be a few times for the same piece of land size means the density is higher. And built up is a few times more is usually because the strata land size is very small and thus the strata houses are built tall and narrow. Landed properties in SG is a matter of prestige. Many people may have mistaken by comparing apple and orange but many people also form the market judgement, rightly or wrongly.

 

[malpaso]

No, the salesperson say the voting after 5 years is for changing to individual title, not voting for extension, only if people voted to change to individual title then the extension is allowed. If strata also can do extension, then it is not strata as strata properties mean that the home owners only own the interior and the exteriors are the common property. If people can do extension on common property without taking ownership, this will pose problem in future like who'll maintain this extension? Especially when ownership change hands and the new owner may not agree to maintain the extension of the previous owner.

As for roof and exerior repairs and painting of landed properties taken care by management office, right or not I'm not sure but this is what I heard from Leisure farm salesperson for their terrace houses previously and it sure tallies to what I know strata properties are like SG strata condo, the roof and exterior repairs and painting are all taken care by management office - this I'm sure - only interior problem such as water leakage that is inter-floor is the responsibility of the owner (higher floor unit responsible 100%).

If the Msia strata landed houses expect the owners to paint the exterior walls, this will pose problems as such painting and repairs are usually required every five years for proper maintenance and upkeep and that is why the management office has to carry such major repairs and painting every five years. Leave it to the individual owners mean that sure there'll be owners who do not wish to carry out the painting every five years, maybe they want to do it only in the 6th or 10th year and that means the estate facade will be affected even if the same paint code is used.

As for the news you posted about old taman originally not being G&G and now set up barriers and the barriers get removed, I think the new G&G estates do not face the same issue as they were planned from the onset to be G&G including the roads. So far, haven't seen any too.

SG strata titled condo or malaysia strata titled condo the exterior painting is expensed from the sinking fund, that is true. Am not sure how it works for strata landed in singapore, maybe someone can share their experience. I would think the strata titles for landed housing tend to be slightly different from a condo, since, as in SEC, our houses have a gate and perimeter wall surrounding each unit. What this means is that whatever bounded by the perimeter wall and gate is under the onus of the lot's owner to upkeep. For instance, in a condo, the 4 feet of tiles just outside my front door and the down spotlight above it, are considered owner care (ie I will have to pay myself to upkeep them). Beyond that (lift lobby tiles) are common property. Hence, I believe I would have to pay to paint the exterior of my future SEC house, but strictly follow the color code provided by Setia (or in future, the council). Actually, this was told to me by my salesguy - i had asked him about it. The painting of the poolhouse, the landscape beyond my front gate, guardhouse etc is , of course, expensed from the sinking fund.

As for converting strata to individual title, I am quite sure you were misinformed. The land title cannot anyhow be changed without going back to the authorities (even then, is it possible??), and all the strata title issued to owners will need to be changed to individual titles. Furthermore, (1) strata and individual titled properties conform to different set of legislations, (2) if converted to individual titles, who owns the roads, landscaping, poolhouse, guardhouse? It just doesn't make sense.

Hence, I don't think this is possible. I believe your sales person is actually refering to the by-laws governing the precinct. In this case, he/she is right that after 5 years, the owners will need to form the JMB and take over from setia. It is then up to us to table motion to allow extensions, and if carried through in the AGM by majority voting, then extension is allowed. Meaning to say, after 5 years, we may set our own rules, or amend certain by laws which were set up by the original owners (meaning the developers). Moreover, I had already clarified the meaning of strata titled property with the setia appointed solicitor during my SPA signing. You can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strata_title

as for the PJ furore, you are right. They are old tamans that did not get approval from MBPJ on their security installations. Newer G&G from developers probably would have all the necessary approvals done. I also need to add that I am not for or against strata or individual titles. So far, I think both have their own merits.

 

[ginfreely]

SG strata titled condo or malaysia strata titled condo the exterior painting is expensed from the sinking fund, that is true. Am not sure how it works for strata landed in singapore, maybe someone can share their experience. I would think the strata titles for landed housing tend to be slightly different from a condo, since, as in SEC, our houses have a gate and perimeter wall surrounding each unit. What this means is that whatever bounded by the perimeter wall and gate is under the onus of the lot's owner to upkeep. For instance, in a condo, the 4 feet of tiles just outside my front door and the down spotlight above it, are considered owner care (ie I will have to pay myself to upkeep them). Beyond that (lift lobby tiles) are common property. Hence, I believe I would have to pay to paint the exterior of my future SEC house, but strictly follow the color code provided by Setia (or in future, the council). Actually, this was told to me by my salesguy - i had asked him about it. The painting of the poolhouse, the landscape beyond my front gate, guardhouse etc is , of course, expensed from the sinking fund.

As for converting strata to individual title, I am quite sure you were misinformed. The land title cannot anyhow be changed without going back to the authorities (even then, is it possible??), and all the strata title issued to owners will need to be changed to individual titles. Furthermore, (1) strata and individual titled properties conform to different set of legislations, (2) if converted to individual titles, who owns the roads, landscaping, poolhouse, guardhouse? It just doesn't make sense.

Hence, I don't think this is possible. I believe your sales person is actually refering to the by-laws governing the precinct. In this case, he/she is right that after 5 years, the owners will need to form the JMB and take over from setia. It is then up to us to table motion to allow extensions, and if carried through in the AGM by majority voting, then extension is allowed. Meaning to say, after 5 years, we may set our own rules, or amend certain by laws which were set up by the original owners (meaning the developers). Moreover, I had already clarified the meaning of strata titled property with the setia appointed solicitor during my SPA signing. You can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strata_title

as for the PJ furore, you are right. They are old tamans that did not get approval from MBPJ on their security installations. Newer G&G from developers probably would have all the necessary approvals done. I also need to add that I am not for or against strata or individual titles. So far, I think both have their own merits.

Your strata landed has an individual front gate seems different from other strata landed houses that usually with no individual front gate. Like those Leisure farm terrace/town houses that are strata title got no individual front gate.

As for changing to individual title, it does seem weird now that you mentioned although it didn't seem anything wrong when I first heard it from the salesperson. I thought in Msia everything is possible. However, voting to allow extension after 5 years is weird too for strata properties to allow extension.

 

[malpaso]

Your strata landed has an individual front gate seems different from other strata landed houses that usually with no individual front gate. Like those Leisure farm terrace/town houses that are strata title got no individual front gate.

As for changing to individual title, it does seem weird now that you mentioned although it didn't seem anything wrong when I first heard it from the salesperson. I thought in Msia everything is possible. However, voting to allow extension after 5 years is weird too for strata properties to allow extension.

you mean in LF, the committee uses the sinking fund to repaint all the houses in the precinct every few years? that is interesting. based on what i researched so far, the owners of those LF strata house will still have their lot boundary (perhaps virtually, since there is no perimeter wall/ gate) clearly specified in their title deed. whatever area falling within their lot boundary should technically be maintained by the owner (i.e not common area). if for eg the lot boundary is the center of their walls, then makes sense that the outside wall is "common area" and expense is then covered by the sinking fund. but that would also mean the porch is also common property then, since it falls outside the lot boundary. that means, if the tiles of the porch in front of the house is cracked, management would also repair it?

As for the issue of extensions, it doesn't seem weird to me. Think of it as you and a XX number of others who jointly own a piece of land. Based on majority, everyone can agree to pass a new by-law to allow extensions. This may come with restrictions, or meet a certain requirements - for eg: "only extensions to front porch is allowed with color matching the house facade". It is really up to the community to decide what and how. The strata title act does not legislate the items of the by-laws. I suppose there is a set of common by-laws that are adopted by developers over the years, and these are used as a template for most strata titled developments. But once the community forms the JMB and takes over, I don't see why new bylaws or amendments cannot be adopted.

 

[ginfreely]

you mean in LF, the committee uses the sinking fund to repaint all the houses in the precinct every few years? that is interesting. based on what i researched so far, the owners of those LF strata house will still have their lot boundary (perhaps virtually, since there is no perimeter wall/ gate) clearly specified in their title deed. whatever area falling within their lot boundary should technically be maintained by the owner (i.e not common area). if for eg the lot boundary is the center of their walls, then makes sense that the outside wall is "common area" and expense is then covered by the sinking fund. but that would also mean the driveway is also common property then, since it falls outside their lot boundary.

As for the issue of extensions, it doesn't seem weird to me. Think of it as you and 300 others who jointly own a piece of land. Based on majority, everyone can agree to pass a new by-law to allow extensions. This may come with restrictions, or meet a certain requirements - for eg: "only extensions to front porch is allowed with color matching the house facade". It is really up to the community to decide what and how.

If strata allow extension then it is no different from individual title houses and that is what is weird. As for Leisure farm strata terrace houses, what the salesperson told me then was no extension is possible at all and the roof and exterior repair and painting will all be taken care of by management office.

 

[malpaso]

If strata allow extension then it is no different from individual title houses and that is what is weird. As for Leisure farm strata terrace houses, what the salesperson told me then was no extension is possible at all and the roof and exterior repair and painting will all be taken care of by management office.

wah you reply before i finished editing.
no lah, friend. strata title is just a type of title deed. it does not state "cannot allow extension".
but when developer construct a new development, they form the first management corp, which is for five years.
every mangament body will have a set of by-law.
in this by-law, setia (or gamuda, or UEM) state 'cannot do extension'.
this is to maintain nice uniform facade. (so that they can sell the remaining precinct, and not have potential buyers be turned off by rojak row of houses)

but after 5 years, all the owners will elect their own JMB.
The JMB now have the power to table motion to change certain law.

So, yes. in future, even if strata title, you may end up with a committee and all your neighbours want to allow extensions. you can vote against it in the AGM , of cos, but majority wins.

as for LF, it is a 'atas' development. so th developer is surely very strict with the owners. and also majority singaporean and foreign owners, i think these group of people prefer a uniform facade.
In reality - don't have to look so far. I am sure, within 1 year of getting my SEC keys, I will see some neighbour make extension already. sad, but i expect it.

 

[ginfreely]

wah you reply before i finished editing.
no lah, friend. strata title is just a type of title deed. it does not state "cannot allow extension".
but when developer construct a new development, they form the first management corp, which is for five years.
every mangament body will have a set of by-law.
in this by-law, setia (or gamuda, or UEM) state 'cannot do extension'.
this is to maintain nice uniform facade. (so that they can sell the remaining precinct, and not have potential buyers be turned off by rojak row of houses)

but after 5 years, all the owners will elect their own JMB.
The JMB now have the power to table motion to change certain law.

So, yes. in future, even if strata title, you may end up with a committee and all your neighbours want to allow extensions. you can vote against it in the AGM , of cos, but majority wins.

In reality - don't have to look so far. I am sure, within 1 year of getting my SEC keys, I will see some neighbour make extension already. sad, but i expect it.

Oh okay then, I accept that strata also can vote for extension. Seriously, all along I thought strata means cannot have extension whatsoever forever.

 

[malpaso]

Oh okay then, I accept that strata also can vote for extension. Seriously, all along I thought strata means cannot have extension whatsoever forever.

basically if want uniform facade for loong time (don't say forever la ok), better to buy in very atas development like LF, EL, etc. i would imagine owners there are mostly against extensions and renovations.

 

[nextreal]

Queue can be very bad at Tuas. I was once stuck 4 hours in the stupid queue. From then on, i never ever ever choose Tuas.

I had the opposite experience. The longest I have queued is 4 hrs into JB on a very early Sat morning, but that was due to Mas Selamat's escape. All outgoing cars were also subjected to 100% checks. More recently, on a hazy evening in June, I queued for 2.5hrs to get home.

I never had a long queuing experience at Tuas.

actually i found that if the singapore side woodlands cam traffic is clear, the JB side even if stretch across the whole causeway, takes "only" about 1/2 hour (or less) to clear. not really that awful. i can imagine how pissed off i would be if i had to pay higher toll and get stuck 4 hours at tuas!

Still remember the time when MY first introduced the fingerprint recognition thingy, the jam on MY side at one time was more than 7 hours!
So with the same amount of traffic going thru at both 2nd Link CIQ at the same time, when one is smooth flowing while the other is having heavy jam, then the problem lies with the CIQ management on that side.
Just like when returning to SG, you need to stop the car, open the car boot and let the officer check etc is slowing the flow.

I don't think it was as quickly as 30 min, but I too have the feeling that it usually was quicker at the Malaysian end at both Woodlands and Tuas, for both in and outbound. The half-hearted car boot check at Singapore's end is just choking up the queue at times, especially at Woodlands side.

 

[nextreal]

In reality - don't have to look so far. I am sure, within 1 year of getting my SEC keys, I will see some neighbour make extension already. sad, but i expect it.

I don't think it's individual-titled there, but I saw some owners at Nusa Sentral already extending their second level balcony, erecting higher walls and changing the color of their facade already.

 

[Funniman]

Oh okay then, I accept that strata also can vote for extension. Seriously, all along I thought strata means cannot have extension whatsoever forever.

Interesting discussion on strata and individual titles. I never know so much about strata before.

Perhaps you guys may want to note that any extension is subjected to local by laws enforced by the municipal council irregardless.

Some of the known facts are:

The dividing fencing wall must not exceed 5 feet high and it must contain at least 1/3 open space which means you cannot have a full brick wall but half wall, half grille type. It is for ventilation purposes.

Corner lots must be at least 10 ft away from boundary. It essentially mean that you can have extension but must be 10 ft away. Reason is the clearences for fire trucks, cranes to move around corners.

Toilets must have windows.

Of course, all building extension plans must be submitted and approved as a new Certificate of Fitness would be issued by the local council after the extension had been completed.

 

[malpaso]

I don't think it was as quickly as 30 min, but I too have the feeling that it usually was quicker at the Malaysian end at both Woodlands and Tuas, for both in and outbound. The half-hearted car boot check at Singapore's end is just choking up the queue at times, especially at Woodlands side.

it is 30 min or less. i timed it for a couple of times already in the past few months.

 

[malpaso]

Interesting discussion on strata and individual titles. I never know so much about strata before.

Perhaps you guys may want to note that any extension is subjected to local by laws enforced by the municipal council irregardless.

Some of the known facts are:

The dividing fencing wall must not exceed 5 feet high and it must contain at least 1/3 open space which means you cannot have a full brick wall but half wall, half grille type. It is for ventilation purposes.

Corner lots must be at least 10 ft away from boundary. It essentially mean that you can have extension but must be 10 ft away. Reason is the clearences for fire trucks, cranes to move around corners.

Toilets must have windows.

Of course, all building extension plans must be submitted and approved as a new Certificate of Fitness would be issued by the local council after the extension had been completed.

i also didn't know nuts about strata landed until i started asking and researching back in june!

Yup, i concur with your observation. There are the private property by laws, but they cannot contravene the state council laws. Hence, a group of private strata titled property owners cannot enact their own by law to allow, say - stockpiling weapons in the poolhouse. Hence, major structural changes to houses still need to obtain CF / approvals from local authorities even if majority owners are for it.

 

[Chocolate]

Am I right to say if I don't want too drastic change in the appearance of my neighbourhood years down the road, better to stick with strata? I am looking at some private estates in SG where all houses look so different from one another. Really affects visual appearance of the whole neighbourhood.

Anyway, thanks for the good discussion between individual and strata title.

Even in strata some renegade owners will push the limits and break the rules, make changes without approval. It happened in one development here where my friend's house was afefcted as her neighbour actually put up a fencing on the common shared wall. All the management did was to send him a letter asking him to remove it adn when eh refused there was discussion on whther to take legal action against him. The problem is legal action means money from the common fund, many of the other neighbours refused to support this , so they voted against it. When she complained to BCA she was told its a private estate so its for the Management to take action. Eventually in some developments like the one I stayed in owners also start to depart from the design and change their facade , e.g boxing up balcony, some corner units even using common spaces by doing their own landscaping there and claiming its for their privacy and since they maintain it why should anyoen complain.It just led to a lot of quarrels but nothing resolved as legal action costs money and people are not willing to pay when they are not personally affected when their unit may be far from that unit.So it really not that simple. In MY I think it will be the same. There is a limit to what the MA can do.

 

[Chocolate]

SG strata titled condo or malaysia strata titled condo the exterior painting is expensed from the sinking fund, that is true. Am not sure how it works for strata landed in singapore, maybe someone can share their experience.

You're right, all common areas are maintained by the Management but for big expenses, it must be either approved by council or voted on at AGM/EGM. The problem with this is I found people to be self serving and would only support what benefitted them. E.g any attempts to upgrade maintain pool would not be supported by those who don't use it, just like in condos here.As for painting there is a ruling on an obligation to paint in a certain number of years by the authorities that also applies to all condos here, but in MY I dont know if this is so as I see many dilapidated developments.
Even in MY , in G&G estates once developer hands over, we will face some chalnenges of strata owners, e/g some owners may default on Maiantenance fees and the rest of us will have to subsidize them, it happens here also and MA may have a hard time getting the money if they leave unit vacant. But at least we're responsible for own unit and there are less issues that need to be agreed on.