Yes. and its not worth the torture that the female members of your family has to go thru. I will be very frank, these ladies who you see in the pictures were usually mistresses or second wives and their familes and they were abandoned. You should talk to some of your Indonesia Chinese friends and get the real story. They know that are responsible for it. Its a real sad world.
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Never forget 10 years ago.
- Thread starter Lentor
- Start date
Yes. and its not worth the torture that the female members of your family has to go thru. I will be very frank, these ladies who you see in the pictures were usually mistresses or second wives and their familes and they were abandoned. You should talk to some of your Indonesia Chinese friends and get the real story. They know that are responsible for it. Its a real sad world.
How come you discriminate others like that?
You want them to launch terrorist attacks and bomb all churches around the world ah? For your "Goat" sake, can you chrikukustians don't disrupt all our world peace?
Bro, thanks for pointing the direction, will do some checking.
Ethnic Chinese tell of mass rapes
Ethnic Chinese women cower from rioters
Reports are beginning to emerge that hundreds of women and girls of Chinese descent were raped during the riots that swept over Indonesia last month.
The BBC Correspondent Matt Frei reports on the harrowing accounts of rape
As more women and girls - previously too scared to speak - come forward, a disturbing pattern of systematic rape has been revealed.
According to witnesses, the rioters would attack houses, rape the younger women, burn the house, and then move on to the next house. Girls as young as 11 were targeted, and were often raped in front of their families by as many as 10 men.
Ethnic Chinese, who made up only about 3% of Indonesia's population, have traditionally been made into scapegoats. When the rioting broke out in May, many Chinese shops and houses were looted and burned to the ground, and tens of thousands of Chinese fled the country.
The truth comes out
The BBC Jakarta correspondent says that many of the ethnic Chinese are Christian, and it was at church that they first overcame their shame and spoke about what happened.
As one woman spoke out about her experiences, another stood up and told a similar story, prompting others to do the same.
A terrible realisation dawned on congregations in Jakarta and elsewhere: the Chinese women had become victims of what looked like a campaign of mass rape.
Crisis groups have been set up to help the women, but there are still many unanswered questions, and there has been little official recognition of what happened.
The extent of the violence
It is still not known how many women and girls were raped. Many have already fled from Indonesia, and others are still too traumatised to report it and fear further retaliation.
An ethnic Chinese hotel manager, Lim Sian Tie, said many women tried to hide.
"The trauma is so unbearable, they don't want to see anybody. That is quite understandable. If they are known to have been gang raped they would prefer to commit suicide."
Our correspondent says that many of those who could not flee are still in hospital, their minds scarred and their bodies often horribly mutilated.
A doctor at the hospital said that she knew of at least 400 cases of rape. In one incident 68 Chinese women and girls were raped by groups of as many as 10 men who systematically worked through the floors of an apartment block in a middle-class, residential district.
Unanswered questions
Frequently the women were raped in front of their families and neighbours. One man described how he helped a mother and three daughters escape the country.
"On May 14 my friend's three daughters were put on the back of a truck by a group of men. They were repeatedly raped from four in the afternoon until three in the morning. The youngest was 14."
Our correspondent says the unanswered question haunting the Chinese community, still numb with fear, is who did this?
A number of victims have said that the men who raped them had crew cuts and tattoos and that they seemed to be drugged, or drunk. In the rumour mill of Jakarta, some have pointed to the same renegade units in the army which allegedly encouraged the rioters and looters.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/indonesia/special_report/118576.stm
Ethnic Chinese women cower from rioters
Reports are beginning to emerge that hundreds of women and girls of Chinese descent were raped during the riots that swept over Indonesia last month.
The BBC Correspondent Matt Frei reports on the harrowing accounts of rape
As more women and girls - previously too scared to speak - come forward, a disturbing pattern of systematic rape has been revealed.
According to witnesses, the rioters would attack houses, rape the younger women, burn the house, and then move on to the next house. Girls as young as 11 were targeted, and were often raped in front of their families by as many as 10 men.
Ethnic Chinese, who made up only about 3% of Indonesia's population, have traditionally been made into scapegoats. When the rioting broke out in May, many Chinese shops and houses were looted and burned to the ground, and tens of thousands of Chinese fled the country.
The truth comes out
The BBC Jakarta correspondent says that many of the ethnic Chinese are Christian, and it was at church that they first overcame their shame and spoke about what happened.
As one woman spoke out about her experiences, another stood up and told a similar story, prompting others to do the same.
A terrible realisation dawned on congregations in Jakarta and elsewhere: the Chinese women had become victims of what looked like a campaign of mass rape.
Crisis groups have been set up to help the women, but there are still many unanswered questions, and there has been little official recognition of what happened.
The extent of the violence
It is still not known how many women and girls were raped. Many have already fled from Indonesia, and others are still too traumatised to report it and fear further retaliation.
An ethnic Chinese hotel manager, Lim Sian Tie, said many women tried to hide.
"The trauma is so unbearable, they don't want to see anybody. That is quite understandable. If they are known to have been gang raped they would prefer to commit suicide."
Our correspondent says that many of those who could not flee are still in hospital, their minds scarred and their bodies often horribly mutilated.
A doctor at the hospital said that she knew of at least 400 cases of rape. In one incident 68 Chinese women and girls were raped by groups of as many as 10 men who systematically worked through the floors of an apartment block in a middle-class, residential district.
Unanswered questions
Frequently the women were raped in front of their families and neighbours. One man described how he helped a mother and three daughters escape the country.
"On May 14 my friend's three daughters were put on the back of a truck by a group of men. They were repeatedly raped from four in the afternoon until three in the morning. The youngest was 14."
Our correspondent says the unanswered question haunting the Chinese community, still numb with fear, is who did this?
A number of victims have said that the men who raped them had crew cuts and tattoos and that they seemed to be drugged, or drunk. In the rumour mill of Jakarta, some have pointed to the same renegade units in the army which allegedly encouraged the rioters and looters.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/indonesia/special_report/118576.stm
Now you guys know why i did not donate a single cent to indonesia whenever a natural disaster like tsunami or earthquake happen? They are babarians.
You must be young. Yours friend behave like that cos they have never been agitated or instigated. Also, they r a minority in Sin. If they were agitated, trust me, they will behave like their fellow friends in indonesia.
Dear all,
Look around you and the various religious beliefs in this world. Some religions slaughtered sheeps, cows in cold blood etc during their festive celebration and the whole floor, stairway, roads were in blood bath (yesterday yahoo news). In contrast, Buddhism forbids the killing of life, all sorts of lives. During vesak day, we let go animals and birds to express our compassion. Can you see which religion is more humane?
Look around you and the various religious beliefs in this world. Some religions slaughtered sheeps, cows in cold blood etc during their festive celebration and the whole floor, stairway, roads were in blood bath (yesterday yahoo news). In contrast, Buddhism forbids the killing of life, all sorts of lives. During vesak day, we let go animals and birds to express our compassion. Can you see which religion is more humane?
I understand!
I don't think you got the picture. This is not about religion. Ever heard about Cambodia, every heard about genocide in cambodia. Guess what was the national religion. Ever heard about Thailand's where the army shoots at students on so many occasions, Guess what religion.
I have little faith in the religions of the world. Your first duty is to your fellow man, no matter what colour, creed or religion he is.
Those events took place because the banking sector in Indonesia collapsed. Guess who were running the banks. Guess who siphoned off the money leaving empty shells. Money that was important to the people. It matter little if these people were muslims, buddhist, christians or jews. They would still done the same thing. There was nothing religious about this.
Where do you think the men were and why only the women and children were in the homes.
Does it not strike you that something odd was taking place. This is not the first time that this has happenned. Why are the Chinese still there?
Ethnic Chinese Moved Assets Overseas Before Riots Erupted : Wary in Jakarta
By Philip SegalPublished: SATURDAY, MAY 16, 1998
HONG KONG: With billions in Swiss banks, hotels in California, pulp mills in China and cellular-phone networks in the Philippines, wealthy members of Indonesia's ethnic Chinese community have been hedging their bets for decades. This week, that planning may be paying off.
Even before crowds of rioters ripped through Chinese-owned businesses Thursday and Friday, any Indonesian company with substantial foreign debt was probably insolvent anyway. Now, as mobs burn down Chinese houses and attack ethnic Chinese cars packed with family members, cash and jewelry on the road to the Jakarta airport, some of Indonesia's richest citizens can at least take some comfort that billions of dollars are already safely invested overseas.
"The cynic or leftist would say they were getting their money out," said Eugene Galbraith, head of research at ABN-AMRO Bank in Hong Kong, who spent more than a decade working in Indonesia. "They would probably say, and I would say, they were quite wisely hedging as any rich person would seek to do."
Race riots are nothing new to Indonesia. After the carnage in 1965 against ethnic Chinese during and after the coup that brought President Suharto to power, came riots against the Japanese in 1974. For many years, the Chinese have been the repeated targets of mob rage across Indonesia, in racial flare-ups that mostly failed to gain international attention.
"There's been capital flight for a long time," said a consultant with a major accounting firm in Jakarta. "The money invested here has turned around and left."
Today in Business with Reuters
Indexes rise slightly as a terrible month endsU.S. consumers retreat and brace for leaner timesBarclays seeks $11.8 billion injectionBut over the last few weeks, the scale of the capital flight has grown exponentially, he said.
The wisdom of international hedging was not lost on Indonesia's richest ethnic Chinese businessman, Soedono Salim, one of whose houses in Jakarta was set on fire by mobs this week.
A poor immigrant from China who came to Indonesia 60 years ago, he was fortunate enough to meet and becomes friends with a future army general and president, Mr. Suharto. Mr. Salim's real name is Liem Sioe Liong, but like many of Indonesia's Chinese, he adopted an ethnic Indonesian name long ago.
Unlike hundreds of thousands of middle-class Chinese across Indonesia who may own a shop, a house, a car and maybe an apartment abroad, Mr. Salim has been shipping his money offshore for years.
Much of rich Indonesia's money has flowed to the Singapore offices of European private banks and into property investments, according to Mr. Galbraith, although the length of the list of foreign public companies controlled by Indonesia's ethnic Chinese is by any standard impressive.
The Salim group controls First Pacific Co., which is listed on the Hong Kong stock exchange and has investments across Asia.
Indonesia's second-richest ethnic Chinese clan, the Wijayas, is also well provided for outside of Indonesia. Headed by a man whose real name is Oei Ek Tjhong, the family controls the Sinar Mas group of companies in Indonesia, but also owns hotels in California and Texas, as well as the New York-listed Asia Pulp and Paper Co., which has operations in Indonesia and across the region as well.
Credit Suisse First Boston said in March that "even with the economic turmoil of 1997, the company should continue to expand its capacity in Indonesia and China at a 27 percent rate through 2000."
A smaller but still wealthy empire is controlled by the Wanandi family, which has a stake in Arvin Industries Inc., a U.S. auto-parts maker.
Dharmala Group, owned by ethnic Chinese, holds a listed Hong Kong company with interests in Hong Kong, China and the Philippines.
Analysts cautioned against isolating Indonesia's ethnic Chinese as the source of capital flight, with rumors buzzing around the capital of as much as $14 billion amassed by Mr. Suharto alone. As with all such discussions, there is probably no way to measure Indonesian capital flows accurately, given the extent to which corruption has eroded the practice of record keeping in the country.
"I don't think it's only the Chinese that have taken these sorts of measures," said Simon Francis, an analyst at Credit Suisse in Singapore. Ethnic Indonesians, known as Pribumis, have also stashed billions offshore, he said. "There's no way to quantify how much money has flown out."
As for how quickly the billions of dollars that have left Indonesia would find their way back to the country once the unrest subsided, Mr. Francis was pessimistic. "People are going to be much more wary now," he said.
http://www.iht.com/articles/1998/05/16/tycoons.t.php
By Philip SegalPublished: SATURDAY, MAY 16, 1998
HONG KONG: With billions in Swiss banks, hotels in California, pulp mills in China and cellular-phone networks in the Philippines, wealthy members of Indonesia's ethnic Chinese community have been hedging their bets for decades. This week, that planning may be paying off.
Even before crowds of rioters ripped through Chinese-owned businesses Thursday and Friday, any Indonesian company with substantial foreign debt was probably insolvent anyway. Now, as mobs burn down Chinese houses and attack ethnic Chinese cars packed with family members, cash and jewelry on the road to the Jakarta airport, some of Indonesia's richest citizens can at least take some comfort that billions of dollars are already safely invested overseas.
"The cynic or leftist would say they were getting their money out," said Eugene Galbraith, head of research at ABN-AMRO Bank in Hong Kong, who spent more than a decade working in Indonesia. "They would probably say, and I would say, they were quite wisely hedging as any rich person would seek to do."
Race riots are nothing new to Indonesia. After the carnage in 1965 against ethnic Chinese during and after the coup that brought President Suharto to power, came riots against the Japanese in 1974. For many years, the Chinese have been the repeated targets of mob rage across Indonesia, in racial flare-ups that mostly failed to gain international attention.
"There's been capital flight for a long time," said a consultant with a major accounting firm in Jakarta. "The money invested here has turned around and left."
Today in Business with Reuters
Indexes rise slightly as a terrible month endsU.S. consumers retreat and brace for leaner timesBarclays seeks $11.8 billion injectionBut over the last few weeks, the scale of the capital flight has grown exponentially, he said.
The wisdom of international hedging was not lost on Indonesia's richest ethnic Chinese businessman, Soedono Salim, one of whose houses in Jakarta was set on fire by mobs this week.
A poor immigrant from China who came to Indonesia 60 years ago, he was fortunate enough to meet and becomes friends with a future army general and president, Mr. Suharto. Mr. Salim's real name is Liem Sioe Liong, but like many of Indonesia's Chinese, he adopted an ethnic Indonesian name long ago.
Unlike hundreds of thousands of middle-class Chinese across Indonesia who may own a shop, a house, a car and maybe an apartment abroad, Mr. Salim has been shipping his money offshore for years.
Much of rich Indonesia's money has flowed to the Singapore offices of European private banks and into property investments, according to Mr. Galbraith, although the length of the list of foreign public companies controlled by Indonesia's ethnic Chinese is by any standard impressive.
The Salim group controls First Pacific Co., which is listed on the Hong Kong stock exchange and has investments across Asia.
Indonesia's second-richest ethnic Chinese clan, the Wijayas, is also well provided for outside of Indonesia. Headed by a man whose real name is Oei Ek Tjhong, the family controls the Sinar Mas group of companies in Indonesia, but also owns hotels in California and Texas, as well as the New York-listed Asia Pulp and Paper Co., which has operations in Indonesia and across the region as well.
Credit Suisse First Boston said in March that "even with the economic turmoil of 1997, the company should continue to expand its capacity in Indonesia and China at a 27 percent rate through 2000."
A smaller but still wealthy empire is controlled by the Wanandi family, which has a stake in Arvin Industries Inc., a U.S. auto-parts maker.
Dharmala Group, owned by ethnic Chinese, holds a listed Hong Kong company with interests in Hong Kong, China and the Philippines.
Analysts cautioned against isolating Indonesia's ethnic Chinese as the source of capital flight, with rumors buzzing around the capital of as much as $14 billion amassed by Mr. Suharto alone. As with all such discussions, there is probably no way to measure Indonesian capital flows accurately, given the extent to which corruption has eroded the practice of record keeping in the country.
"I don't think it's only the Chinese that have taken these sorts of measures," said Simon Francis, an analyst at Credit Suisse in Singapore. Ethnic Indonesians, known as Pribumis, have also stashed billions offshore, he said. "There's no way to quantify how much money has flown out."
As for how quickly the billions of dollars that have left Indonesia would find their way back to the country once the unrest subsided, Mr. Francis was pessimistic. "People are going to be much more wary now," he said.
http://www.iht.com/articles/1998/05/16/tycoons.t.php
we Chinese are a sick people, we sell our fathers and mothers for money. for $$$ we can rob rape kill, tts why pple hate us so much. we are a shameless race, a shameless people.
When I returned to Jakarta after the situation returned to normal, the Chinese still had tremendous political and economic influences. Yet, I could not understand why they could not use their clout to see these animals were brought to justice. Many of these locations were supposedly guarded by designated Army Units, so there has to be accountability.
The Angmos who were running the NGOs in Indonesia were more concerned than fellow chinese who went on to buy new cars. What was also amazing was that the homes of Chinese Businessman were untouched, only the small shops at the chinese sector.
It happenned in the 40,50s,60s,................... and its goes on. Why the fuck are they still there?
Ever see Indonesian Chinese standing in front of Indonesia Embassy in Singapore protesting during the heights of the riot, ever see any sign of they seeking help from the wider world community. Really weird.
I was once told after much querying that Indonesia is the last El Dorado in Nanyang. The fear that they might be sent back from El Dorado is a genuine fear. I guess therein lies the answer.
The Chinese is unique.Anywhere in the globe, be it africa, india or some remote islands, we can see the foorsteps of Chinese ancestors and their 3rd or 4th geneation descendents. We have migrants element in our blood. We are like the grass...we get burn and we will grow again. We have the never-say-die spirit. A chinese poems reads: 'ye huo shao bu jin, chun feng chui you sheng' (the wild fire burn rampantly, comes next spring we will grow).
1. In Indonesia, it’s an overt clash with OTHER faith and race. The majority are not tolerant of other pp. Malaysia is basically the same except that there’s higher proportion of Chinese and Indians. That's why is much contained.
2. What u mentioned is ideal..in actual fact, when war erupts in Sin, u think you can have the assurance that all sin pp will think like you? Or u think our govt share you thoughts?
3. Indo banks were mainly run by Chinese and other conglomerates. You think it's by luck?? These chinese come from china, empty handed, worked hard, just like our forefathers who took months by boats to come to Singapore. The indo Chinese learned indo language, worked very hard, start from small businesses and achieved their present status. No govt assistance. All start from scratch. What is wrong with that? They can take their money to wherever they want. Cannot meh?
4. Chinese are like the wild grass..they get burned but they will grow. We are extremely flexible and have a never-say-die attitude. This is in our blood.
Read the malaysia news and hear what the politicians there say..In umno meeting, they raised the kris and threatened to bathe it with chinese blood. Who said it before..the present DPM Najib (when he was unmo youth) and present umno youth chief hishamuddin. note: both their fathers were ex-prime ministers.
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