Mr Low Thia Kiang is honestly right, job credit scheme is HOLLOW!

[Tiu-leh-see-fart]

To successfully alleviate retrenchment, we have to go back to the basics.
Touch our heart and ask why companies retrench workers during bad times?

If there is no demand, the supply will be lessened which means some workers have to go.
Retrenchment does not chiefly the cause of slow demand; there are also other factors like high rental, high port fees, high taxes, environment, etc.

Another issue is crucial to companies ---cheaper labor to gain more profits---this is bottom-line! It does not take a rocket scientist to tell us proper!

But if retrenchment must come, a few hundreds capped at $ 2500 will not do wonder, the principle part of the salary is still a hefty expense.

But one must know that not all companies will retrench workers during bad times, the job credit will make these companies richer, thus blowing away public money for the rich to get richer.

PAP is one good example, it doesn’t retrench civil servants and it will benefit comfortably from the job credit.

During the downturn, cheaper labor will have its advantages over the expensive ones, this is a cruel reality. Put it bluntly, many locals will be retrenched because they demand more salaries to tie over the high cost of living...

Huge retrenchment can be a very personal issue; it has to be dealt with case by case and not just hoping job credit will solve the problem. Lim sway sway also agreed some retrenchment are unavoidable.

If Sheng Siong opens another outlet becos of job credit, then it must be urban legend to create 80 jobs.
If job credit is preferred to Cutting CPF rates that can save jobs, then overpriced HDB houses must be the burden to many leaseholders. Who do not want to be positive, PAP MPs should be retrenched and take up jobs that earn them $800 per month and then start thinking to be motivators to do pep talk.

There are many honest and sincere ways to help Singaporeans during bad times.
Sorry, i forget about PRs or FTs----thousands and thousands of PRs are also depending on this budget to survive, PAP has to love the PRs or FTs, but not forgetting to give the locals the bone.

PAP baboons have to think hard, we cannot give them ideas for free; they are paid millions and millions gawking out of the ivory tower.

Sadly, those who support the scheme must have personal agenda or for the sake of it to exhibit fidelity.
Keep up the good work, Mr Low Thia Kiang.
Truth hurts !

 

[dupersuper]

guys,
here is the email address for low & siew.
if u think they had raised valid concerns & got unjustly fuxx by the pap dogs, do email them a word of encouragement like i did.

low: [email protected]
siew: [email protected] (http://siewkumhong.blogspot.com/)

if kiasi, can use anonymous email here
http://anonymouse.org/anonemail.html

 

[Einfield]

I Hope the WP can propose their own budget.

Publish it on their website.

They must show that they are capable to run as the next government and better then the PAP in term of formulating policies.

The few mins of objections in parliament is not going to change anything.

 

[gunpointing]

Why do you want Opposition to come up with their own budget.

1. Firstly, even it is the best it would not be implemented.
2. Secondly, nobody but the elite know how much we have. How can you ask someone to do up a budget when we do not know what we have in our coffers.
3. Thirdly, questions asked in parliment by WP was thought out carefully and valid. But the answers given were not satisfactory. It is the duty of any citizen to analyse and be critical if necessary if they see shortcomings. That never happens in Singapore and the only effective opposition now seems to be LTK as Mr Chiam is still recuperating. So I think credit as to be given to him for asking difficult questions. He has to face 80 opposition everytime and everywhere he goes.
4. Few mins or few hours who cares. As long as the topic brought up is relevant that is enough. If everybody thinks like you then why bother to have a parliment.
5. Nobody intends to overthrow the current government and I do not think LTK needs to present better policies to show he is better. When the time comes people would judge who is the better candidate or government. Elections are not won by formulating policies but by showing you have the interest of the comman man at heart.

My 2 cents worth without any animosity.

 

[Lestat]

What can one man do against a whole army?

Think '300'

 

[Einfield]

Why do you want Opposition to come up with their own budget.

1. Firstly, even it is the best it would not be implemented.
2. Secondly, nobody but the elite know how much we have. How can you ask someone to do up a budget when we do not know what we have in our coffers.
3. Thirdly, questions asked in parliment by WP was thought out carefully and valid. But the answers given were not satisfactory. It is the duty of any citizen to analyse and be critical if necessary if they see shortcomings. That never happens in Singapore and the only effective opposition now seems to be LTK as Mr Chiam is still recuperating. So I think credit as to be given to him for asking difficult questions. He has to face 80 opposition everytime and everywhere he goes.
4. Few mins or few hours who cares. As long as the topic brought up is relevant that is enough. If everybody thinks like you then why bother to have a parliment.
5. Nobody intends to overthrow the current government and I do not think LTK needs to present better policies to show he is better. When the time comes people would judge who is the better candidate or government. Elections are not won by formulating policies but by showing you have the interest of the comman man at heart.

My 2 cents worth without any animosity.

Don't give me excuse, give me solutions.

If you step into politics and be contented with the MP allowance, then please don't waste our support.

We want someone that can win against all odds, if you can't show me what you are going to do, how to vote you in? We don't need another PAP like wayang party

 

[SamuelStalin]

You do have a point actually. The WP is pretty big, but still, not big enough with just one heavyweight against the heavyweightS of the main party. One man suggesting so much, with the likelihood to be shot down in the end (as one man's logic don't always prevail over the logic of several men?), is simply a waste of time and does nothing for his own image in the eyes of the populace who are not with him.

The alternative parties should form a coalition of sorts and come under one not only to increase their size but also, more heavyweights and able speakers among them can then come forth together in unity to engage in deeper discussions with their main party counterparts in Parliament.

Just my two cents on this.

Why do you want Opposition to come up with their own budget.

1. Firstly, even it is the best it would not be implemented.
2. Secondly, nobody but the elite know how much we have. How can you ask someone to do up a budget when we do not know what we have in our coffers.
3. Thirdly, questions asked in parliment by WP was thought out carefully and valid. But the answers given were not satisfactory. It is the duty of any citizen to analyse and be critical if necessary if they see shortcomings. That never happens in Singapore and the only effective opposition now seems to be LTK as Mr Chiam is still recuperating. So I think credit as to be given to him for asking difficult questions. He has to face 80 opposition everytime and everywhere he goes.
4. Few mins or few hours who cares. As long as the topic brought up is relevant that is enough. If everybody thinks like you then why bother to have a parliment.
5. Nobody intends to overthrow the current government and I do not think LTK needs to present better policies to show he is better. When the time comes people would judge who is the better candidate or government. Elections are not won by formulating policies but by showing you have the interest of the comman man at heart.

My 2 cents worth without any animosity.

 

[dupersuper]

Don't give me excuse, give me solutions.

If you step into politics and be contented with the MP allowance, then please don't waste our support.

We want someone that can win against all odds, if you can't show me what you are going to do, how to vote you in? We don't need another PAP like wayang party

pse read gunpointing msg carefully again.

 

[Lestat]

Why can't some folks READ the postings first before replying?

Seems the fingers are faster than the brain.

 

[SamuelStalin]

What can one man do against a whole army?

Think '300'

No, think John Rambo

 

[DerekLeung]

Companies just expolit the loophole.

In a few more months when everyone forgets.

The sacking and retrenching begins more aggressively.

The credit package just buy time for companies. No one helping the people.

 

[VIBGYOR]

http://forums.fuckwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2258198

In economics, we know that it does not matter if we tax or subsidise the workers or the employers because the end results are the same. The wage the workers receive at the end of the day, and the number of workers employed are the same regardless of whether we tax employers or we tax workers. I prove this using the image (graph) below which I drew using powerpoint.

The graph on the left shows the effects of a one dollar tax on employers. The X-axis is quantity of labour employed and the Y-axis is the wage of workers. Labour demand falls from D to D'. The wage workers receive at the new equilibrium is now W and employers pay W+1 dollars due to the tax.

The graph on the right shows the effect of a one dollar tax on employees. Labour supply falls from S to S'. The wage employers pay is now W, but the wage workers receive is now W-1.

I drew a line that intersects both graphs to demonstrate that W in the first graph is actually the same as (W-1) in the second graph! I can also prove that the quantity of workers who lost their jobs due to the tax is the same in both graphs. We now know that it does not matter if taxes are levied on workers or on employers. Definitely, someone may be able to give a more elegant explanation, or someone else can draw better graphs than me, but this will suffice for now.

Logically, we also know that the effect of subsidies to labour (which work the opposite way from taxes) should also be the same regardless of whether we subsidise employers or subsidise employees. Simply reverse the line movements I made in my graphs!

The Jobs Credit Scheme is a subsidy to employers. So what's the problem here? Chua Mui Hoong on Page B8 of today's Straits Times asked why government funds to reduce the wage bill should go to employers, not workers. Here lies the crux of the debate. In theory, as we already know by now, it does not matter. My graphs have proven this.

Well, what happens if the money given to companies do not go towards the wage bill? It's a no strings attached subsidy. Graphically, we can show the shift in labour demand to the right will be smaller than desired. The effectiveness of the labour subsidy will no longer be as effective as if we deliver the subsidy to workers instead.

Mr Low Thia Kiang also points out that the Jobs Credit Scheme does not discriminate between companies faring badly and those who are still doing well. It is a blunt instrument that may not deliver help where it's most needed.

So is the Jobs Credit Scheme as "bold", "innovative", and "cleverly crafted" as some PAP MPs say? I definitely have my doubts and economics stands on my side. I will be very surprised if MPs like Mdm Halimah Yacob or Mrs Josephine Teo or Ms Jessica Tan or Mr Heng Chee How are economists by trade. These Labour MPs may need to go back to school to brush up their fundamentals.

 

[Einfield]

pse read gunpointing msg carefully again.

To have the interest of the people is to make changes so they can benefit from you.

SO, Nothing short of replacing the existing government can effect that change

It is the duty of the opposition to hammer that across to the people that he got an "Interest" in.

If not, better be a religious leader and every pain and sorrow, it's always "My prayers are with you"

 

[tonychat]

YOu guys wanna bet, after numerous attempt of the Wp to say the scheme is not good, the whole bloody scheme will still carried out.

You wanna bet?????

 

[gunpointing]

Einfield, can we stick to the topic.
Its about the so called Job Credit Scheme. We are not talking about Politics, race, religion.

Its my personal opinion that it the whole budget is top heavy giving heavy emphasis to companies to have a heart. But companies do not think that way. In this time and age where its all about revenue and profit anything that contributes towards cost is a liability.

If this is the approach Govt wishes to take they should at least give more power to the union to protect employees from being taking advantage. 900 employees being retrenched by DBS late last year without consultation with the union should not have been allowed to happen. Failing to take action against such high handedness by an organisation just shows the vulnerable situation that employees are in.

 

[Ramseth]

YOu guys wanna bet, after numerous attempt of the Wp to say the scheme is not good, the whole bloody scheme will still carried out.

You wanna bet?????

What's the betting odds? 82:2?

 

[Man in the streets]

LTK speaks for the people but the PAP dogs speak for somebody else.
PAP top dogs sure ask Mr Low for alternative measures.
As soon as Mr Low and Sylvia propose new measures, the PAP wolves sure attack again.
It takes 30 PAP piglets to present the Budget 09, these piglets should sit in and discuss the budget 09.
parliament is supposed to do brainstorming for a better measure to handle the situation and not attacking oppo memebrs to belittle them.

PAP bastards have no interest for the local people, they decide , and they expect the rest to rubber stamp.
So what if Mr Low proposes a good measure, can tarmugi turn over the asshole Loong's decision?
unless the old fart kicks the bucket, Mr Low and mr chiam will continue to face the PAP running dogs acting not for themselves, speak not from their heart but to please someone else.

Fuck the PAP Deep!

 

[Einfield]

Einfield, can we stick to the topic.
Its about the so called Job Credit Scheme. We are not talking about Politics, race, religion.

Its my personal opinion that it the whole budget is top heavy giving heavy emphasis to companies to have a heart. But companies do not think that way. In this time and age where its all about revenue and profit anything that contributes towards cost is a liability.

If this is the approach Govt wishes to take they should at least give more power to the union to protect employees from being taking advantage. 900 employees being retrenched by DBS late last year without consultation with the union should not have been allowed to happen. Failing to take action against such high handedness by an organisation just shows the vulnerable situation that employees are in.

Did I deviate?

What I suggest, is the crux of the problem.
I agree on Mr Low's observation on the flaw in this scheme, that not all companies need it and therefore will profit from it. We are throwing our reserve on a bad scheme that did not help those who need it most, those already retrenched. Right??

My observation is 100 steps ahead of this scheme, or any other scheme, we need someone who can propose alternative, not just tweak what the PAP dish out.

It may be unfair for Mr Low as I know he is the lone voice in there but it is also this overwhelming odds that gave him the chance to show us all who supported him, the fighting spirit and wisdom and leadership to replace PAP.

Why people still vote for PAP even they are screwing them day in day out? Because no one out there believe there's anyone, besides the late JBJ have what it takes to bring them down.

 

[Angelo]

sigh Job credit Scheme ultimately flow back to GIC coffers. GIC is the biggest employer in Singapore. From left hand to Right hand.

Best part is they still allow more foreigners to stay as PRs to screw the local born.

This is the worst recession we ever seen. And yet we get screwed over once more. yet again. and again.

Is $$$ really that important to LKY that he lose all sense of humanity?

 

[DerekLeung]