Monumental Policy Error by PAP

[eatshitndie]

Dear Scroobal

The scale and type of military diplomacy engaged with China indicates to me relatively at least "engagement" but not a full fledged military alliance. You have to look at what is being done with China vis sa vis what is being done with the rest of the world , both covert and overt, in particular

1. Israel
2. USA and Taiwan
3. Australia
4. Thailand
5. Indonesia
6. Burma
7. India and Rest of SEA

in terms of scale and types of troops undergoing joint training. China had previously offered Singapore Hainan Island as a full fledged substitute for Starlight. After 15 odd years Starlight is here and will continue to stay. Facilities available to the Chinese South SEAS fleet and PACCOM in Singapore ? Type of troops being trained and where they are training ? Its obvious where SG see's the real value lying and where SG's see's is as nother form of diplomatic engagement.

So what we have is a closer political and trade engagement leading to closer military to military ties but never on the same level and scale as other more important partners. Note Mahatir was screaming like a virgin being raped when SG offered basing rights when the Phillipines threw the US out in a fit of nationalistic fervor, after q5 years they have quietly accepted the need for a stronger US presence. The same will be for China I suspect if they start screaming.



Cheers


locke

you're correct on this. this has nothing to do with race, but some lunatics across and within the border will want people to think it is. the dilemma that sg faced in light of the starlight debacle has been lifted, not only with this but also the change of attitude by prc towards the new taiwanese gov. it's kind of "share the wealth and best practice" among regional players. if someone were to harp on the race card, he is going the wrong end of the stick. and it must be challenged viciously, cos that's not what it is, perceived or not.

 

[scroobal]

Note that it is counter-terrorism and not a military exercise. More in the line of civil disorder and para military matter but with a main military unit. I guess they are sending out weather ballons. Its on chinese soil and not in singapore, again testing waters. Do recall the reaction that they received when they invited the Isreal head of State and got an immediate adverse reaction from the neighbours.

As you probably know both Singapore and Malaysia are tied at the hips where Myanmar is concerned because of the vested commercial interest and the overlord is china.

Geopolitically, in a sea of Malays one wonders why the need to wake sleeping dogs. Is it to counter Obama's tilt to the otherside?


Will be interesting to see how this develops.

Dear Scroobal

The scale and type of military diplomacy engaged with China indicates to me relatively at least "engagement" but not a full fledged military alliance. You have to look at what is being done with China vis sa vis what is being done with the rest of the world , both covert and overt, in particular

1. Israel
2. USA and Taiwan
3. Australia
4. Thailand
5. Indonesia
6. Burma
7. India and Rest of SEA

in terms of scale and types of troops undergoing joint training. China had previously offered Singapore Hainan Island as a full fledged substitute for Starlight. After 15 odd years Starlight is here and will continue to stay. Facilities available to the Chinese South SEAS fleet and PACCOM in Singapore ? Type of troops being trained and where they are training ? Its obvious where SG see's the real value lying and where SG's see's is as nother form of diplomatic engagement.

So what we have is a closer political and trade engagement leading to closer military to military ties but never on the same level and scale as other more important partners. Note Mahatir was screaming like a virgin being raped when SG offered basing rights when the Phillipines threw the US out in a fit of nationalistic fervor, after q5 years they have quietly accepted the need for a stronger US presence. The same will be for China I suspect if they start screaming.



Cheers


locke

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroobal

The little red dot's foreign policy ethos, mentality, has been borne out of pragmatism and its roots in its turbulent creation. Race, Malay Nationalism, Malay, dominance, Malay Supremacy will continue to be an undercurrent to relationships between Singapore and Malaysia. The inherent fear of a Malaysia Indonesia alliance has been diminished over the years as Indonesia has gone down differing roots. With Indonesia we have a relationship based on traditional "win win" alliances "corporation" etc not withstanding the occasional disagreements over investments, military training, air space etc. With Malaysia history and race underlines everything.

The US and PACCOM have been the allies of choice for Singapore. As LKY has put it a benevolent hegemonic power and the only remaining super power. China will in the future I believe secure its place as a dominant power in Asia. Whether that rise is peaceful, whether that power is exercised benevolently , whether it serves as a source of stability or instability to the Asia Pacific .........all that only time will tell. The growing engagement with China in trade diplomacy and now military terms positions the little red dot for deeper engagement with a greater china of the future which is a force and actor for stability. If on the other hand the china of the future turns out to be very different, then such military engagements can be as easily stopped or reversed.




Locke

 

[scroobal]

I am still curious to see its development. One very small component is the firing coordinates that US manufactured RSAF aircraft possess which our neighbours don't which was well articulated by Mahathir. Now that we play in the same playground with PRC, what will that entail.

Do remember that ISD had to detain an ex-SAF ranking regular who went over to a GLC arms dealer for selling secrets to the Malaysians in the mid 90s.

Or is it kiss and make up over the SPH Journalist affair whose ultimate employer was not SPH.

Interesting times.

The growing engagement with China in trade diplomacy and now military terms positions the little red dot for deeper engagement with a greater china of the future which is a force and actor for stability.
Locke

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroobal

Ahhh that is why the insides of our US made aircraft all come from Country X or Mexicans :_)) With regards to spying on friends errrrrr lets get real, friends spy on friends and on enemies, its a given, the only question is whether or if it is handled maturely if the spies are caught :_)). That is no one makes a bit fuss about it if they are caught with their pants down, because errr everyone has their pants down.


Locke

 

[Frankiestine]

lets get real, friends spy on friends and on enemies, its a given, the only question is whether or if it is handled maturely if the spies are caught :_)). That is no one makes a bit fuss about it if they are caught with their pants down, because errr everyone has their pants down.
Locke

Interestingly the question is, are those people that our "ears and eyes" are currently spying on are considered our friend or our enemy?

 

[scroobal]

Its becoming similar to the way Temasek behaves - erratic. In both cases, the veil of secrecy does not call for accountability.

Interestingly the question is, are those people that our "ears and eyes" are currently spying on are considered our friend or our enemy?