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Mah Bow Tan say citizens had been hearing MYTH on HDB flats

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NATIONAL Development Minister Mah Bow Tan spent some time in Parliament yesterday addressing popular misconceptions about Singapore's public housing market.

MYTH: There are not enough HDB flats to meet demand.
HIS RESPONSE:
# The HDB released 13,500 new flats last year and will release another 12,000 or more this year. This is more than the total number of flats in Clementi or Jurong East (about 23,000 flats each).
# The massive oversubscription rates for new flats are misleading. That is because half the number of flat applicants choose not to book a flat when invited to do so. Many say this is because they could not get a flat of their choice, yet in recent selection exercises, one-third rejected flats on the first day of selection, when all the flats were available.
# Some first-time buyers have complained that they have tried repeatedly to get a flat to no avail. But when the HDB reviewed 477 such cases in the last six months, it found only 29 appeals (6 per cent) were genuine.

CASE STUDY: Mr C complained about his lack of success in getting a flat. The HDB's checks found that he had submitted four applications, three of which were in highly popular mature estates. In six months, he consecutively rejected three offers of flats: one offer of 121 flats in Punggol/Sengkang because he had been 'targeting a unit in Buangkok'; another offer of 143 flats in Punggol because 'the units left are facing the mosque'; and a third offer of 14 flats in Serangoon, Yishun, Ang Mo Kio, Tampines and Woodlands because these were not his 'choice' flats.

MYTH: HDB flats are unaffordable.
HIS RESPONSE:
# On top of the CPF Housing Grant of $30,000 or $40,000, there is an Additional Housing Grant (AHG) for lower-income families of up to $40,000. As of Jan 31, the Government disbursed more than $330 million in AHG to more than 20,000 families.
# The median house price is 5.8 times the median household income in Singapore. In comparison, the ratio is 7.1 in London and 19.8 in Hong Kong.
# The average mortgage payment for new flats in non-mature estates sold in 2009 was 22 per cent of monthly household income. This is well below the affordability benchmark of 30 per cent to 35 per cent.
# Four out of five Singaporean new flat buyers service their housing loans from CPF savings, without any cash payment.

CASE STUDY: Mr and Mrs S, with a $4,500 monthly income, bought a four-room flat in Punggol for $297,900. They received $10,000 in grants and took a concessionary loan of $268,100 (90 per cent of the price) from the HDB. The couple's monthly instalment is $1,073, or 24 per cent of their income. They can use $1,035 from the CPF to service the mortgage and end up paying only $38 monthly in cash.

MYTH: PRs push up prices.

HIS RESPONSE:
# The median cash-over-valuation (COV) paid by permanent residents have been the same as the median COV nationwide for the last two quarters.
# Cases of PRs paying high COV are the exception. Of 37,205 resale transactions in 2009, 58 cases had COV exceeding $70,000. Of this, only eight (14 per cent) involved PRs.

MYTH: Private property owners push up prices.
HIS RESPONSE:
# Their number is not large enough to push up prices. Of the 58 resale transactions last year with COV exceeding $70,000, only 11 cases (19 per cent) involved private property owners.

MYTH: Subletting of HDB flats is rampant.
HIS RESPONSE:
# Of the 682,000 flats that have fulfilled current Minimum Occupation Period requirements, only 3 per cent are sublet. This suggests most flat owners are buying their flats for occupation, and not rental.
 
MYTH : Singapore will enter world cup qualifier in 10 years time.
 
Why is there a need to give grants and in some cases more than 1. Obviously because the flats are basically unaffordable. Without those grants, the loan servicing factor would go way past 30% of disposable income which is a world wide benchmark.

After 50 years of PAP governments, Singaporeans still need govt grant to buy public housing. There is no pride despite working their arse out to recieve a handout from the govt. In all other countries, grants are only given during difficult times such as recession to help the construction sector and keep jobs.

Why can't 86% of Singaporeans afford public housing without a grant for 50 fucking years. Obviously the PAP like the feudals want peasants to feel grateful to lord of the manor.
 
Whatever the ah mah say it just prove me one thing..when LKY chased away all the heartlander from all the kampong, there was a big conspiracy behind..
 
Sounds like a point-by-point rebuttal to NSP Sec-Gen Goh Meng Seng.

NATIONAL Development Minister Mah Bow Tan spent some time in Parliament yesterday addressing popular misconceptions about Singapore's public housing market.

MYTH: There are not enough HDB flats to meet demand.
HIS RESPONSE:
# The HDB released 13,500 new flats last year and will release another 12,000 or more this year. This is more than the total number of flats in Clementi or Jurong East (about 23,000 flats each).
# The massive oversubscription rates for new flats are misleading. That is because half the number of flat applicants choose not to book a flat when invited to do so. Many say this is because they could not get a flat of their choice, yet in recent selection exercises, one-third rejected flats on the first day of selection, when all the flats were available.
# Some first-time buyers have complained that they have tried repeatedly to get a flat to no avail. But when the HDB reviewed 477 such cases in the last six months, it found only 29 appeals (6 per cent) were genuine.

CASE STUDY: Mr C complained about his lack of success in getting a flat. The HDB's checks found that he had submitted four applications, three of which were in highly popular mature estates. In six months, he consecutively rejected three offers of flats: one offer of 121 flats in Punggol/Sengkang because he had been 'targeting a unit in Buangkok'; another offer of 143 flats in Punggol because 'the units left are facing the mosque'; and a third offer of 14 flats in Serangoon, Yishun, Ang Mo Kio, Tampines and Woodlands because these were not his 'choice' flats.

MYTH: HDB flats are unaffordable.
HIS RESPONSE:
# On top of the CPF Housing Grant of $30,000 or $40,000, there is an Additional Housing Grant (AHG) for lower-income families of up to $40,000. As of Jan 31, the Government disbursed more than $330 million in AHG to more than 20,000 families.
# The median house price is 5.8 times the median household income in Singapore. In comparison, the ratio is 7.1 in London and 19.8 in Hong Kong.
# The average mortgage payment for new flats in non-mature estates sold in 2009 was 22 per cent of monthly household income. This is well below the affordability benchmark of 30 per cent to 35 per cent.
# Four out of five Singaporean new flat buyers service their housing loans from CPF savings, without any cash payment.

CASE STUDY: Mr and Mrs S, with a $4,500 monthly income, bought a four-room flat in Punggol for $297,900. They received $10,000 in grants and took a concessionary loan of $268,100 (90 per cent of the price) from the HDB. The couple's monthly instalment is $1,073, or 24 per cent of their income. They can use $1,035 from the CPF to service the mortgage and end up paying only $38 monthly in cash.

MYTH: PRs push up prices.
HIS RESPONSE:
# The median cash-over-valuation (COV) paid by permanent residents have been the same as the median COV nationwide for the last two quarters.
# Cases of PRs paying high COV are the exception. Of 37,205 resale transactions in 2009, 58 cases had COV exceeding $70,000. Of this, only eight (14 per cent) involved PRs.

MYTH: Private property owners push up prices.
HIS RESPONSE:
# Their number is not large enough to push up prices. Of the 58 resale transactions last year with COV exceeding $70,000, only 11 cases (19 per cent) involved private property owners.

MYTH: Subletting of HDB flats is rampant.
HIS RESPONSE:
# Of the 682,000 flats that have fulfilled current Minimum Occupation Period requirements, only 3 per cent are sublet. This suggests most flat owners are buying their flats for occupation, and not rental.
 
CASE STUDY: Mr C complained about his lack of success in getting a flat. The HDB's checks found that he had submitted four applications, three of which were in highly popular mature estates. In six months, he consecutively rejected three offers of flats: one offer of 121 flats in Punggol/Sengkang because he had been 'targeting a unit in Buangkok'; another offer of 143 flats in Punggol because 'the units left are facing the mosque'; and a third offer of 14 flats in Serangoon, Yishun, Ang Mo Kio, Tampines and Woodlands because these were not his 'choice' flats.

You going to buy a $300,000 property, tied up for 30 years loan and you want to anyhow choose an apartment? Imagine signing a mortgage of 30 years, a $300,000 property and everyday wake up and wish you never bought the place. Not everyone can buy 10 HDB flats with an annual salary of $3,000,000.

CASE STUDY: Mr and Mrs S, with a $4,500 monthly income, bought a four-room flat in Punggol for $297,900. They received $10,000 in grants and took a concessionary loan of $268,100 (90 per cent of the price) from the HDB. The couple's monthly instalment is $1,073, or 24 per cent of their income. They can use $1,035 from the CPF to service the mortgage and end up paying only $38 monthly in cash.

When Mr. and Mrs. S kena retrenched or replaced by cheaper, better, faster and younger FTs, think they can afford $1,000 cash mortagage payment? If their children are smart to go Hwa Chong Institute/NUS but not enough to get scholarships, they can afford to pay $6,000 annual tuition fees? Hopefully they don't get sick and if not, they have to downgrade and find ways and means to buy a resale flat with COV $50,000. KNN

# The median cash-over-valuation (COV) paid by permanent residents have been the same as the median COV nationwide for the last two quarters.
# Cases of PRs paying high COV are the exception. Of 37,205 resale transactions in 2009, 58 cases had COV exceeding $70,000. Of this, only eight (14 per cent) involved PRs.

Same as past 2 quarters, why not past 5 years to reflect the influx of FTs? Please tell the people that ONLY 14% (8 sales) SUCCEED in buying at $70,000 and over. He has failed to report on many failed transactions of PR offerings of $50,000. Wanna smoke people, smoke properly.
MYTH: Private property owners push up prices.
HIS RESPONSE:
# Their number is not large enough to push up prices. Of the 58 resale transactions last year with COV exceeding $70,000, only 11 cases (19 per cent) involved private property owners.

11 cases (19%) of private property owners succeeded in buying resale with COV over $70,000. My agent friends was saying 30-40,000 sometimes offered by private owners are rejected by sellers.

MYTH: Subletting of HDB flats is rampant.
HIS RESPONSE:
# Of the 682,000 flats that have fulfilled current Minimum Occupation Period requirements, only 3 per cent are sublet. This suggests most flat owners are buying their flats for occupation, and not rental.

This is a good one. 3% sublet. I think we need the primary six PSLE students to do maths now. How many PRs in Singapore? 3% of 682 units can sublet. How many PRs bought resale HDB. The rest of PRs slept on the streets? KNN, MBT don't do their job, HDB don't do their jobs, WKS don't do their jobs, the whole f###ing government is not doing his job.

KNNBCCB so much for 1st world city with the highest paid poltician in the book of guiness records. Anyone submit for that yet? Also why choose the COV $70,000? SInce the averge is only $24,000 or something, why not quote COV over $30,000, why must be $70,000?
 
I think he is living in his own Myth.

How many young couples under 30 years old who want a new flat could possibly earn a total of $4500? Unless you are a university graduates... but wait, how many percentage of the cohort are graduates?

It means that the statistics is skewed. Those who could not afford to buy flats would not be captured in this little statistics.... couples who earn less than $3000 may not want to buy flats but chose to live with their parents!

He is really out of touch with the reality on the ground.

Goh Meng Seng
 
Those who couldn't afford won't even bother to apply and hence their numbers won't show up on Mah Bow Tan's stats.
 
PAP-Government-led HDB flats has become increasingly unaffordable. If case studies are needed, then consider the whole spectrum of cases available. Check with young couples and see if they are sponging off their parents whilst saving up for their own flats.

Maybe what Mah says is true. Or untrue. I do not know.

What is true however is that PAP-Government-led HDB flat prices are extremely high in the inner and suburban areas, compared to those days before they implement the new citizens policy. They need to investigate into those reasons and determine reality from myth. Why the sudden jump in those areas? Who are demanding it? Who are the buyers - new citizens? Is the increase beyond normal inflation before the new citizens policies?

Maybe Mah has already explained all these. It is best however to show us the raw statistics - number of new citizens in the inner, suburban areas and the price trend of HDB flats. We can make our own analysis.
 
Maybe Mah has already explained all these. It is best however to show us the raw statistics - number of new citizens in the inner, suburban areas and the price trend of HDB flats. We can make our own analysis.

Prior to his budget speech, Mr Mah has been releasing a whole series of statistics. Unfortunately, many of these have been exposed as being "funny numbers" by netizens.

The first of these releases in the HDB Sample Household Survey 2008. Goh Meng Seng did 2 articles to explain what was wrong with the numbers.

http://singaporealternatives.blogspot.com/2010/02/call-for-clarity-from-mah-bow-tan-and.html

http://singaporealternatives.blogspot.com/2010/02/no-clarity-yet-but-more-questions-on.html

Independently, Leong Sze Hian did an analysis and came to a similar conclusion.

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02...-their-flats-–-really-or-just-half-the-story/

After being exposed for the first time, Mr Mah then instructed 2 "independent" professors to contribute an article to the ST to show HDB flats are affordable. These professors used an apple=orange=pear methodolody to try and show that HDB flats are affordable by comparing Singapore to the most expensive cities in the world. It got exposed by Dr Ng in Temaset Review (TR).

Temasek Review is currently unavailable and I will post up the url for the article when TR comes back on line.

Later in a stunning revelation, it was found that the two "independent" professors were not so "independent" after all. One of the professors was in fact on the board of HDB. He is also a grassroots leader in one of the CCs. The details are in TR and I will post the url when TR comes back online.

If you chew through all the articles, you will be able to see the dodgy "statistical massage" that are in this speech. It is amazing that despite knowing that his opponents are aware of the truth, he decided to use those numbers anyway in Parliament.
 
Dear Aurvandil,

It just shows that he is running out of ammo.

Initially, he used some example of a couple with $3000 income to show that they could well afford a $250K flat. Now, he shifted his goal post using an example of a couple with $4500. LOL!

But yet, he refused to acknowledge that this is based on 30 years mortgage! This is really interesting....

Goh Meng Seng

Prior to his budget speech, Mr Mah has been releasing a whole series of statistics. Unfortunately, many of these have been exposed as being "funny numbers" by netizens.

The first of these releases in the HDB Sample Household Survey 2008. Goh Meng Seng did 2 articles to explain what was wrong with the numbers.

http://singaporealternatives.blogspot.com/2010/02/call-for-clarity-from-mah-bow-tan-and.html

http://singaporealternatives.blogspot.com/2010/02/no-clarity-yet-but-more-questions-on.html

Independently, Leong Sze Hian did an analysis and came to a similar conclusion.

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02...-their-flats-–-really-or-just-half-the-story/

After being exposed for the first time, Mr Mah then instructed 2 "independent" professors to contribute an article to the ST to show HDB flats are affordable. These professors used an apple=orange=pear methodolody to try and show that HDB flats are affordable by comparing Singapore to the most expensive cities in the world. It got exposed by Dr Ng in Temaset Review (TR).

Temasek Review is currently unavailable and I will post up the url for the article when TR comes back on line.

Later in a stunning revelation, it was found that the two "independent" professors were not so "independent" after all. One of the professors was in fact on the board of HDB. He is also a grassroots leader in one of the CCs. The details are in TR and I will post the url when TR comes back online.

If you chew through all the articles, you will be able to see the dodgy "statistical massage" that are in this speech. It is amazing that despite knowing that his opponents are aware of the truth, he decided to use those numbers anyway in Parliament.
 
Anyone who've watch the British sitcom Only Fools And Horses (humungously popular in late 80s and early 90s) would know. A 30-year mortgage on a 99-year lease is asking you to pay 99 years worth of rent within 30 years. The British have a public housing rental system too, but there's no centralised equivalent to HDB, the town councils directly control rental or lease. The town councillors are directly elected and have no function in Parliament, just manage the town; national Parliament MPs are elected separately. A block of flats need not be whole block rental or lease. Some units can be rented, some units can be leased, up to the tenants.
 
My sister just got married and bought a new HDB near my parents house but HDB did not award them the grant for staying closer to parents. Besides, the price has skyrocketed and her family bought at rediculous high price with many PRs/foreigners joining the same queue in the ballot. She ended up not getting her ideal unit for such hefty prices. What shit grant was MBT talking about and what ideal home was he painting of?
 
Anyone here has any links to the MYTHS of Mah BT?

Goh Meng Seng
 
Anyone here has any links to the MYTHS of Mah BT?

Goh Meng Seng

Lim Swee Say talked about selling Triumph bras in Parliament, how to use different lightings for different ages to make the women look good in bras to improve sales productivity, also got no link. Not even reported at all as far as I know. Irene Ng also tak boleh tahan shut him up with Not All Women Are Like That. Lee Hsien Loong lowered his head and looked like pretending to be in deep thought.
 
mbt.jpg


MBT: Goal 2010 is to be the fortune God!
 
FAPee TRAITOR Ministers being paid by the millions every year to betray Sporns in their own country - Is that a MYTH too?
 
Mah Bow Tan...thinks that we the citizens of SINkingpore, are "bong Gan" ( stupid in Hainanese), now he is into mythology....

Soon, he will be singing Hainanese oprea......I thought he said he did not know why the prices of the flats had gone up?

or was that a myth? or some Hainanese tales?:p
 
CASE STUDY: Mr C complained about his lack of success in getting a flat. The HDB's checks found that he had submitted four applications, three of which were in highly popular mature estates. In six months, he consecutively rejected three offers of flats: one offer of 121 flats in Punggol/Sengkang because he had been 'targeting a unit in Buangkok'; another offer of 143 flats in Punggol because 'the units left are facing the mosque'; and a third offer of 14 flats in Serangoon, Yishun, Ang Mo Kio, Tampines and Woodlands because these were not his 'choice' flats.

=> But will Mabroky himself accept these 'palaces' himself? If he doesn't, what makes him think that others should accept them?
 
MYTH: PRs push up prices.
HIS RESPONSE:
# The median cash-over-valuation (COV) paid by permanent residents have been the same as the median COV nationwide for the last two quarters.
# Cases of PRs paying high COV are the exception. Of 37,205 resale transactions in 2009, 58 cases had COV exceeding $70,000. Of this, only eight (14 per cent) involved PRs.

MYTH: Private property owners push up prices.
HIS RESPONSE:
# Their number is not large enough to push up prices. Of the 58 resale transactions last year with COV exceeding $70,000, only 11 cases (19 per cent) involved private property owners.

=> How does Mabroky benchmark the palaces' prices then?
 
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