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Long Term becomes WRONG TERM! WHERE ARE YOUR EYES?

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
Long Term becomes WRONG TERM! I must first qualify this: this is a quote I get out of Sammyboy forum recently.

When Singapore government Sovereign Wealth funds like Temasek Holdings and GIC started to throw money in Citibank, Merryl Lynch and UBS last year, there were so much coverage about what a "good bargain" they have gotten. I was very skeptical about such deals for the simple reason that nobody, professional investors, will walk into such deals at the first sight of trouble. This is simply because one would not be able to assess the seriousness of the whole issue at first instance when there were almost simultaneously three BIG international banks putting up the red cards together.

Any investors or fund managers worth his salt would have become very wary and cautious when he is put into such situation. At most, he would put a small bet into one, not ALL THREE together. But this is NOT the case for Singapore Government's investment arms. They WALK RIGHT INTO the center of financial tornado WITH THEIR EYES WIDE OPEN, or do they have eyes in the first place? Even if the chances of these banks making a come back are more than 60%, I guess any prudent investors would have waited slightly longer, just for the stock price to fall further.

The irony is that after the ill-fated investments were made, our PAP ministers backed these ill-fated investments up WITH THEIR EYES WIDE OPEN again. They claimed these are GOOD BARGAINS. And when the stock prices start free falling, they still claim that these are for LONG TERM INVESTMENT.

Mind you, our ministers are EXTRAORDINARY politicians (or technocrats, if you may want to cal them) that demands the WORLD'S HIGHEST PAY as political office holders. They self-proclaimed to be WORLD CLASS TALENTS who are running a WORLD CLASS country. And thus, they demand WORLD CLASS salaries for their "services to the country". But it seems that they are just like any ordinary fund managers when they made such ill-fated judgment! We would expect TOP MONEY with TOP PERFORMANCE, not MEDIOCRE PERFORMANCE, right?

Well, never mind if you justify that I am talking on hindsight, which I know I am not. I was one of the few that cast doubts on such investment moves at that time. Simply because I believe we could wait for a little while longer to get the REAL BARGAIN if we really believe that these would be good buy. Waiting a little bit longer will also allow us to assess the extend of the problems these banks are facing. Either way, we win. Besides, we are just a little tiny red dot with limited reserves which are meant for our very own survival if anything hit us back home. We should not think too greatly of ourselves as the "world saver" of the day. Prudence is lost when arrogance emerges. This is the golden truth.

Back home here, the whole nation has just found out that the lack of prudence is not just limited to the Government's SWF. The ruling party's municipal Town Councils, which have accumulated quite a huge amount of funds over the years, have made great blunders in making EYE OPENING investments in the HIGH RISK structured financial products which the pitiful returns that do not match the risks embedded.

Even the government statutory boards, which I believe, includes the defacto Central Bank MAS, have made such EYE OPENING BLUNDERS, even under the WATCHFUL EYES of the WORLD CLASS TALENTED Ministers. It all happens when MAS decided to go on imprudence deregulation on the financial system back in 2000. These toxic financial products should not be allowed to be sold in Singapore to retail investors in the very first place. Whose fault? Obviously its the MAS' fault to start with. MAS should have assessed such products WITH THEIR EYES OPEN.

Well, some claims that people invest, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. No big deal. However, THIS IS THE PEOPLE'S MONEY, not theirs to start with. If any ministers or PAP MPs made losses in their OWN investments in these structured products, I swear that I won't laugh or MOCK at them by saying they "WALK IN WITH EYES OPEN". Nope. Its perfectly alright to make a mistake on their personal investments. BUT IT IS NOT OK for them to show such TOTAL INCOMPETENCY when it comes to investing PUBLIC MONEY!

The irony is that instead of doing the SIMPLE DECENT THING of apologizing for the various mistakes made in such investments, these WORLD CLASS POLITICIANS actually have the cheeks to DEFEND their position by saying "it's a small sum" (nearly a peanut or what?), its small percentage, their investment is "top secret" and even go to such an extend of being ARROGANT in declaring that Singaporeans "SHOULD BE GRATEFUL TO THEM" for their past success in investments!

As I have said, Prudence is lost when Arrogance emerges. If you are a company director and you pay TOP MONEY to employ supposedly TOP TALENTS to help you run the company. The company makes money in the first few years, do you need to be "grateful" to these TOP TALENTS that demanded TOP MONEY? Well, maybe so, but less so; because it is simply JUST A DEAL and TOP MONEY warrants TOP PERFORMANCE, this is natural. But when the company starts to lose BIG MONEY, would you just sit there and say take the crap of these TOP TALENTS refusing to admit their mistakes but keep reminding you that you should be grateful to them for their past good performance?

From the assertion of LONG TERM has turned into WRONG TERM. Hopefully it will not turn into LOST TERM. Our PAP ELITES are totally lost; LOST OF FORESIGHT, HELICOPTER SIGHT and what is more interesting is that we are witnessing them losing HUMILITY but GAINED SUBSTANTIALLY on ARROGANCE.

I guess the worst is yet to come. Temasek Holdings with GIC combined, have lost multi-billion dollars for the last one and a half year. This is substantial lost in terms of losses per capital. And yet, we are still witnessing Temasek Holdings and GIC pumping money relentless into the world's financial institutions, which in my view, putting too much risks in throwing good money after bad ones. When will they learn to be prudent? This is just the beginning of the whole crisis. They lost huge amount in the "prelude" back in 2007 and now, they are pumping money in just like that when apparently this is only the beginning of a long drawn crisis!

Heaven please helps us!

Goh Meng Seng
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Long Term becomes WRONG TERM! I must first qualify this: this is a quote I get out of Sammyboy forum recently.

When Singapore government Sovereign Wealth funds like Temasek Holdings and GIC started to throw money in Citibank, Merryl Lynch and UBS last year, there were so much coverage about what a "good bargain" they have gotten. I
The way the PAP Govt strutted its stuff claiming exceptional talent, exceptional pay, one would have expected exceptional results. No one expected mediocre results let alone a bailout, a failure in 2 out of the 3.

If the fucking arsehole who is still squatting for 49 years rent free has any shame, he would apologise and step down and ask his daughter to step down as well.
 

AWARENESS

Alfrescian
Loyal
Prudence is lost when arrogance emerges. This is the golden truth.


Heaven please helps us!

Goh Meng Seng[/QUOTE]

Prudence is lost when arrogance emerges,
Arrogance emerges when ignorance surfaces.
IGNORANCE.....WORLD CLASS?????

Many suffer because of ignorance, do they or will they?
 

myfoot123

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
The irony is that instead of doing the SIMPLE DECENT THING of apologizing for the various mistakes made in such investments, these WORLD CLASS POLITICIANS actually have the cheeks to DEFEND their position by saying "it's a small sum" (nearly a peanut or what?), its small percentage, their investment is "top secret" and even go to such an extend of being ARROGANT in declaring that Singaporeans "SHOULD BE GRATEFUL TO THEM" for their past success in investments!

One good example is Lee Bee Wah, todate she has not uttered any sincered apology and still blame the team leaders and newspaper. Than there is this Mdm Peanut lady, who claimed SGD600,000 salary is peanut.

As I have said, Prudence is lost when Arrogance emerges. If you are a company director and you pay TOP MONEY to employ supposedly TOP TALENTS to help you run the company. The company makes money in the first few years, do you need to be "grateful" to these TOP TALENTS that demanded TOP MONEY? Well, maybe so, but less so; because it is simply JUST A DEAL and TOP MONEY warrants TOP PERFORMANCE, this is natural. But when the company starts to lose BIG MONEY, would you just sit there and say take the crap of these TOP TALENTS refusing to admit their mistakes but keep reminding you that you should be grateful to them for their past good performance?
Goh Meng Seng

Didn't DBS retrench 900 staff whom I believed some are top talent but the world is realistic, if you loss you go. But among PAP, you loss you stay and blame the people. That explains why many dogs enjoy working for their master.
 

kuntakinte

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Mr Goh,

I mean Goh Meng Seng. After reading your posting, I have mixed feelings. It gives me the impression that you are doing a diagnosis, which is of not much value. To put it crudely, you are knocking the shin of Temasek and PAP.

Next, it seems that the CEO of Temasek, namely, Ho Ching, is good at making lousy investment decisions - money losing deals; Global Crossing, Micropolis, Shin corp, and others. So, naturally, when she made the decisions to invest in those money losing investments - It DOES NOT come with any surprise at all !!! The more money she loses for Temasek, the higher salary she will get, and more power she will acquire. Not forgetting that she is the most powerful woman in Asia.

Sorry, if PAP had not screwed these Sinkies enough for these sinkies to feel it, they will still win the election in the next round. Probably, the winning percentage may drop to 55% to 56%, but they will still win. WHY ???

They are too many morons in Singapore that still believe in them.

Like my pro-KMT taiwanese friend said during the corrupted Chen era, "Taiwan is a democratic country, the minority (like him, a pro-KMT supporter) has to yield to the majority (voters for DPP)"

What do I care ? I dun care and I dun give a damn, I make my living, I screw PAP in small way, and I still survive in dire time knowing that the morons help me to survive !!!

Look at the morons that queue up at the car showrooms........ Do Sinkies learn ?? Hardly........


Long Term becomes WRONG TERM! I must first qualify this: this is a quote I get out of Sammyboy forum recently.

When Singapore government Sovereign Wealth funds like Temasek Holdings and GIC started to throw money in Citibank, Merryl Lynch and UBS last year, there were so much coverage about what a "good bargain" they have gotten. I was very skeptical about such deals for the simple reason that nobody, professional investors, will walk into such deals at the first sight of trouble. This is simply because one would not be able to assess the seriousness of the whole issue at first instance when there were almost simultaneously three BIG international banks putting up the red cards together.

** Rest is snipped to save space ***

Goh Meng Seng
 

depeche

Alfrescian
Loyal
Long Term becomes WRONG TERM! I must first qualify this: this is a quote I get out of Sammyboy forum recently.

When Singapore government Sovereign Wealth funds like Temasek Holdings and GIC started to throw money in Citibank, Merryl Lynch and UBS last year, there were so much coverage about what a "good bargain" they have gotten. I was very skeptical about such deals for the simple reason that nobody, professional investors, will walk into such deals at the first sight of trouble. This is simply because one would not be able to assess the seriousness of the whole issue at first instance when there were almost simultaneously three BIG international banks putting up the red cards together.

Any investors or fund managers worth his salt would have become very wary and cautious when he is put into such situation. At most, he would put a small bet into one, not ALL THREE together. But this is NOT the case for Singapore Government's investment arms. They WALK RIGHT INTO the center of financial tornado WITH THEIR EYES WIDE OPEN, or do they have eyes in the first place? Even if the chances of these banks making a come back are more than 60%, I guess any prudent investors would have waited slightly longer, just for the stock price to fall further.

The irony is that after the ill-fated investments were made, our PAP ministers backed these ill-fated investments up WITH THEIR EYES WIDE OPEN again. They claimed these are GOOD BARGAINS. And when the stock prices start free falling, they still claim that these are for LONG TERM INVESTMENT.

Mind you, our ministers are EXTRAORDINARY politicians (or technocrats, if you may want to cal them) that demands the WORLD'S HIGHEST PAY as political office holders. They self-proclaimed to be WORLD CLASS TALENTS who are running a WORLD CLASS country. And thus, they demand WORLD CLASS salaries for their "services to the country". But it seems that they are just like any ordinary fund managers when they made such ill-fated judgment! We would expect TOP MONEY with TOP PERFORMANCE, not MEDIOCRE PERFORMANCE, right?

Well, never mind if you justify that I am talking on hindsight, which I know I am not. I was one of the few that cast doubts on such investment moves at that time. Simply because I believe we could wait for a little while longer to get the REAL BARGAIN if we really believe that these would be good buy. Waiting a little bit longer will also allow us to assess the extend of the problems these banks are facing. Either way, we win. Besides, we are just a little tiny red dot with limited reserves which are meant for our very own survival if anything hit us back home. We should not think too greatly of ourselves as the "world saver" of the day. Prudence is lost when arrogance emerges. This is the golden truth.

Back home here, the whole nation has just found out that the lack of prudence is not just limited to the Government's SWF. The ruling party's municipal Town Councils, which have accumulated quite a huge amount of funds over the years, have made great blunders in making EYE OPENING investments in the HIGH RISK structured financial products which the pitiful returns that do not match the risks embedded.

Even the government statutory boards, which I believe, includes the defacto Central Bank MAS, have made such EYE OPENING BLUNDERS, even under the WATCHFUL EYES of the WORLD CLASS TALENTED Ministers. It all happens when MAS decided to go on imprudence deregulation on the financial system back in 2000. These toxic financial products should not be allowed to be sold in Singapore to retail investors in the very first place. Whose fault? Obviously its the MAS' fault to start with. MAS should have assessed such products WITH THEIR EYES OPEN.

Well, some claims that people invest, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. No big deal. However, THIS IS THE PEOPLE'S MONEY, not theirs to start with. If any ministers or PAP MPs made losses in their OWN investments in these structured products, I swear that I won't laugh or MOCK at them by saying they "WALK IN WITH EYES OPEN". Nope. Its perfectly alright to make a mistake on their personal investments. BUT IT IS NOT OK for them to show such TOTAL INCOMPETENCY when it comes to investing PUBLIC MONEY!

The irony is that instead of doing the SIMPLE DECENT THING of apologizing for the various mistakes made in such investments, these WORLD CLASS POLITICIANS actually have the cheeks to DEFEND their position by saying "it's a small sum" (nearly a peanut or what?), its small percentage, their investment is "top secret" and even go to such an extend of being ARROGANT in declaring that Singaporeans "SHOULD BE GRATEFUL TO THEM" for their past success in investments!

As I have said, Prudence is lost when Arrogance emerges. If you are a company director and you pay TOP MONEY to employ supposedly TOP TALENTS to help you run the company. The company makes money in the first few years, do you need to be "grateful" to these TOP TALENTS that demanded TOP MONEY? Well, maybe so, but less so; because it is simply JUST A DEAL and TOP MONEY warrants TOP PERFORMANCE, this is natural. But when the company starts to lose BIG MONEY, would you just sit there and say take the crap of these TOP TALENTS refusing to admit their mistakes but keep reminding you that you should be grateful to them for their past good performance?

From the assertion of LONG TERM has turned into WRONG TERM. Hopefully it will not turn into LOST TERM. Our PAP ELITES are totally lost; LOST OF FORESIGHT, HELICOPTER SIGHT and what is more interesting is that we are witnessing them losing HUMILITY but GAINED SUBSTANTIALLY on ARROGANCE.

I guess the worst is yet to come. Temasek Holdings with GIC combined, have lost multi-billion dollars for the last one and a half year. This is substantial lost in terms of losses per capital. And yet, we are still witnessing Temasek Holdings and GIC pumping money relentless into the world's financial institutions, which in my view, putting too much risks in throwing good money after bad ones. When will they learn to be prudent? This is just the beginning of the whole crisis. They lost huge amount in the "prelude" back in 2007 and now, they are pumping money in just like that when apparently this is only the beginning of a long drawn crisis!

Heaven please helps us!

Goh Meng Seng

So has they decided now is the time to invest with Sand for the casino project? That makes good sense...invest locally!
 

Hope

Alfrescian
Loyal
The way the PAP Govt strutted its stuff claiming exceptional talent, exceptional pay, one would have expected exceptional results. No one expected mediocre results let alone a bailout, a failure in 2 out of the 3.

If the fucking arsehole who is still squatting for 49 years rent free has any shame, he would apologise and step down and ask his daughter to step down as well.
a paper loss of about 50 billion,and what the PAP has done to redeem is to start doing some things which they refused to do and now doing a little,that is to help the people.

The loss of our national wealth to the Ang Nohs and Uncle Sam,(because we gave the money to Ang Mohs -they sold HIGH,and Uncle Sam just took over CitiGroup at probably around US$2.00 per share,compared to PAP US$33.00 per share)

I call on PM Lee to look seriously at his weaknesses,it may not be too late to change some of his very bad habits,even many,either ignorant(the 66.67%) or people with ulterior motives,(for example,those Ang MOHS who are out to swindle him),do cheer him on often,and proclaimed that nothing need to be changed,I hope it is not too late for him and for the people of Singapore.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Singaporeans must learn to be more appreciative of the great deeds our leaders have performed.

Ahem!, of course I am appreciative!, look at the chaos in Bangkok!, and I know that all my blood ,sweat & tears hard earned, retirement money will be there for me, to take till I am 85 & beyond; not like the U.S., where you can kiss your pension almost goodbye..

I look around me, I have been so well look after, kudos to WKS & his home team, I am so safe from terrorist like MSK & others...

I am appreciative, yes sir!:rolleyes:
 

Hope

Alfrescian
Loyal
Long Term becomes WRONG TERM! I must first qualify this: this is a quote I get out of Sammyboy forum recently.

When Singapore government Sovereign Wealth funds like Temasek Holdings and GIC started to throw money in Citibank, Merryl Lynch and UBS last year, there were so much coverage about what a "good bargain" they have gotten. I was very skeptical about such deals for the simple reason that nobody, professional investors, will walk into such deals at the first sight of trouble. This is simply because one would not be able to assess the seriousness of the whole issue at first instance when there were almost simultaneously three BIG international banks putting up the red cards together.

Any investors or fund managers worth his salt would have become very wary and cautious when he is put into such situation. At most, he would put a small bet into one, not ALL THREE together. But this is NOT the case for Singapore Government's investment arms. They WALK RIGHT INTO the center of financial tornado WITH THEIR EYES WIDE OPEN, or do they have eyes in the first place? Even if the chances of these banks making a come back are more than 60%, I guess any prudent investors would have waited slightly longer, just for the stock price to fall further.

The irony is that after the ill-fated investments were made, our PAP ministers backed these ill-fated investments up WITH THEIR EYES WIDE OPEN again. They claimed these are GOOD BARGAINS. And when the stock prices start free falling, they still claim that these are for LONG TERM INVESTMENT.

Mind you, our ministers are EXTRAORDINARY politicians (or technocrats, if you may want to cal them) that demands the WORLD'S HIGHEST PAY as political office holders. They self-proclaimed to be WORLD CLASS TALENTS who are running a WORLD CLASS country. And thus, they demand WORLD CLASS salaries for their "services to the country". But it seems that they are just like any ordinary fund managers when they made such ill-fated judgment! We would expect TOP MONEY with TOP PERFORMANCE, not MEDIOCRE PERFORMANCE, right?

Well, never mind if you justify that I am talking on hindsight, which I know I am not. I was one of the few that cast doubts on such investment moves at that time. Simply because I believe we could wait for a little while longer to get the REAL BARGAIN if we really believe that these would be good buy. Waiting a little bit longer will also allow us to assess the extend of the problems these banks are facing. Either way, we win. Besides, we are just a little tiny red dot with limited reserves which are meant for our very own survival if anything hit us back home. We should not think too greatly of ourselves as the "world saver" of the day. Prudence is lost when arrogance emerges. This is the golden truth.

Back home here, the whole nation has just found out that the lack of prudence is not just limited to the Government's SWF. The ruling party's municipal Town Councils, which have accumulated quite a huge amount of funds over the years, have made great blunders in making EYE OPENING investments in the HIGH RISK structured financial products which the pitiful returns that do not match the risks embedded.

Even the government statutory boards, which I believe, includes the defacto Central Bank MAS, have made such EYE OPENING BLUNDERS, even under the WATCHFUL EYES of the WORLD CLASS TALENTED Ministers. It all happens when MAS decided to go on imprudence deregulation on the financial system back in 2000. These toxic financial products should not be allowed to be sold in Singapore to retail investors in the very first place. Whose fault? Obviously its the MAS' fault to start with. MAS should have assessed such products WITH THEIR EYES OPEN.

Well, some claims that people invest, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. No big deal. However, THIS IS THE PEOPLE'S MONEY, not theirs to start with. If any ministers or PAP MPs made losses in their OWN investments in these structured products, I swear that I won't laugh or MOCK at them by saying they "WALK IN WITH EYES OPEN". Nope. Its perfectly alright to make a mistake on their personal investments. BUT IT IS NOT OK for them to show such TOTAL INCOMPETENCY when it comes to investing PUBLIC MONEY!

The irony is that instead of doing the SIMPLE DECENT THING of apologizing for the various mistakes made in such investments, these WORLD CLASS POLITICIANS actually have the cheeks to DEFEND their position by saying "it's a small sum" (nearly a peanut or what?), its small percentage, their investment is "top secret" and even go to such an extend of being ARROGANT in declaring that Singaporeans "SHOULD BE GRATEFUL TO THEM" for their past success in investments!

As I have said, Prudence is lost when Arrogance emerges. If you are a company director and you pay TOP MONEY to employ supposedly TOP TALENTS to help you run the company. The company makes money in the first few years, do you need to be "grateful" to these TOP TALENTS that demanded TOP MONEY? Well, maybe so, but less so; because it is simply JUST A DEAL and TOP MONEY warrants TOP PERFORMANCE, this is natural. But when the company starts to lose BIG MONEY, would you just sit there and say take the crap of these TOP TALENTS refusing to admit their mistakes but keep reminding you that you should be grateful to them for their past good performance?

From the assertion of LONG TERM has turned into WRONG TERM. Hopefully it will not turn into LOST TERM. Our PAP ELITES are totally lost; LOST OF FORESIGHT, HELICOPTER SIGHT and what is more interesting is that we are witnessing them losing HUMILITY but GAINED SUBSTANTIALLY on ARROGANCE.

I guess the worst is yet to come. Temasek Holdings with GIC combined, have lost multi-billion dollars for the last one and a half year. This is substantial lost in terms of losses per capital. And yet, we are still witnessing Temasek Holdings and GIC pumping money relentless into the world's financial institutions, which in my view, putting too much risks in throwing good money after bad ones. When will they learn to be prudent? This is just the beginning of the whole crisis. They lost huge amount in the "prelude" back in 2007 and now, they are pumping money in just like that when apparently this is only the beginning of a long drawn crisis!

Heaven please helps us!

Goh Meng Seng
The 50 billion loss has finally taught Madam HO one thing,that is you must average yr cost DOWN,so she is waiting for the bottom to buy again,I would not fault her on tis Ah Ben's investment stratery,but I would like to caution,do not average down into companies going bankrupt,as our painful experience before.

Most of the 66.67% assume that banks would not go bankrupt,so we wait for 5,10 years,the share price would surely recover 5,10 times.

In fact,this was the grestest mind MM Lee's calculation too as he made it very plain in his speeches before.but it does not work any more.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
GMS, don't worry lah!, there are still plenty of 'grains' in the silos, come january 20 2009, just before Lunar new Year, they will give you & me, some "hong bao", "ang pow", whatever...don;t expect much this time, some small bao...don;t worry lah!...

long term investment...your great, grand children will appreciate..right down to your 4th generation...don't worry, lah!
 

miosux

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Mr Goh,

They are too many morons in Singapore that still believe in them.

Like my pro-KMT taiwanese friend said during the corrupted Chen era, "Taiwan is a democratic country, the minority (like him, a pro-KMT supporter) has to yield to the majority (voters for DPP)"

fren, you've hit the nail on the head. any government is a reflection of the citizenry, and our "world class gov" is in truth, as moronic as the morons who voted them in.

the 66% majority will remain as morons for a long time to come and the minority have 2 choices:

1. yield to the morons (if they're like u and don't give a shit)
2. educate the morons to lift them out of their moronic state (if they care enough about this little red dot)
 

madmansg

Alfrescian
Loyal
goh meng seng is just a parsasite jumping on to the financial crisis for his own political gain. The underlying problems is that we have SAF generals in Temasek making investment decision when they know nothing about it. This SAF is killing Sg theme has been around for more than ten yeasr already. Goh Meng Seng is spin off from SAF and is one of the reason for what is ailing singapore. He is very much the problem and certainly not the solution.
 
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