Londeners react to fat-shaming with cards that say "you look great!"

[frenchbriefs]

If this were really the case why were there so few fat people in photos taken in the 50s and 60s.

Google for images of blacks taken during the civil rights movement of the 60s. You'll hardly see a single overweight negro.

Compare it with images of blacks today where nobody takes personal responsibility for anything anymore.

compared to the SAF of today,i get on the bus from my ICT camp,i see at least 4 or 5 guys in green camo no.4. that look like teletubbies and fat chipmunks that look like they done eaten a bag of mcdonalds everyday for a month about to burst out of their costumes.

 

[Leongsam]

No one said that all fat people are genetically programmed to be fat. A significant proportion, maybe 10-20%, are. These people need help, not derision.

I'm in that category. I put on weight very easily. I gained 10kg in 3 months when I was a student. Had I not taken measures to reverse the trend, I'd now be a monstrosity if I was still alive.

I was subject to a lot of derision as a result of my weight gain and it made me determined to get back into shape.

In today's politically correct environment I'd be categorised as having a hormone imbalance which would absolve me of any blame for my predicament. It would remove any guilt on my part for not being able to control my weight.

It's because we are not allowed to shame and deride anymore that society has ended up in the mess that it is.

 

[yellowarse]

Rubbish I ride regularly with guys who have lost 30 kg or more within a year of getting on a bike. One guy has lost a whopping 80kg.

It's all about discipline and will power. When you're extremely overweight you start off gradually and build up as the weight comes off.

To lose 80 kg (you didn't mention time frame) you'd have to go on a low-cal diet and an intensive aerobic program for a prolonged period. Not impossible but how many normal people have that kind of will and discipline? Your friend is one exceptional specimen.

The average guy sits on his butt all day in the office, munches on snacks, guzzles beer, plays the odd weekend tennis game, and still keeps his BMI below 25. And you're demanding that kind of superhuman willpower of morbidly obese people (BMI >40)?

Don't you see, most people don't do anything extraordinary and they're still trim ... but you're applying a different standard of discipline to fat people – they must run a marathon a day and eat like a bird to just creep below a BMI of 30. If that's not genetics, I don't know what is.

(BTW, I have good genes. At my most inactive some years back, I stopped exercising completely and just ate about anything I liked and my BMI never went above 22. But I don't lord my good genes over fat people.)

 

[Leongsam]

Yes, no one is claiming that all the fat people or even a majority of them are caused by genetics. But certainly medical science has proven beyond reasonable doubt that genetics plays the key role in many cases.

I absolutely agree that genetics plays a part. I have never argued otherwise.

What I am saying is that if you're genetically predisposed to something undesirable, you need to put in extra effort to combat the issue.

My cousin is as skinny as a rake without having to do an ounce of exercise. I, on the other hand, have to ride at least 250km a week in order to maintain the same lean stature.

When you're disadvantaged in a certain area, that is where extra effort is needed. If you don't make the effort, I have no respect for you because you have no respect for your own body and well being.

 

[Leongsam]

(BTW, I have good genes. At my most inactive some years back, I stopped exercising completely and just ate about anything I liked and my BMI never went above 22. But I don't lord my good genes over fat people.)

I have bad genes. I put on weight very easily and I still have to watch my diet despite the regular exercise.

If I put on weight I would make no excuses. It would be down to my lack of will power and determination to keep in shape. I do not need the medical profession or drug companies to create excuses for my predicament.

I'm hardly an exceptional person but that has not stopped me from developing a routine which maintains my weight at 59kg instead of 100kg or more which is what I would be if I just lazed around and ate whatever I want whenever I felt like it.

I despise fat people because if I can do it I see absolutely no reason why they can't do the same.

 

[yellowarse]

I have bad genes. I put on weight very easily and I still have to watch my diet.

If I put on weight I would make no excuses. It would be down to my lack of will power and determination to keep in shape.

However I'm hardly an exceptional person but that has not stopped me from developing a routine which maintains my weight at 59kg instead of 100kg or more which is what I would be if I just lazed around and ate whatever I want whenever I feel like it.

I despise fat people because if I can do it I see absolutely no reason why they can't either.

Well, so we're agreed genetics do play a part. That's a start.

You mentioned biking 250 km/week. That's exceptional, by any standard. Definitely puts you in the top 5% of the population where exercise is concerned. (I run only 15-20 km a week and none of my friends and colleagues in my age group even comes close to half of my output.)

My point is: The average fat guy has no more or less strong willpower than the average thin guy, neither more nor less lazy. Why condemn them, as if it were some lazy or weak-willed trait rather than lousy metabolism genetics that got them fat in the first place? That's like saying we should condemn low IQ students for not studying 12 hours a day to compensate when nobody in school studies that much anyway.

I've got a staff who only eats one small meal a day. Power walks one hour 3x a week. Decent routine, right? But she can't get her weight below 90kg. Is she so lazy that you must despise her? Do you expect her to cycle 250 km/wk like you, if she's even able to find the time in the first place? She probably does more than 90% of thin folks out there, but her genes work against her.

 

[Leongsam]

I'll give another example.. type 2 diabetes.

I have 2 friends that were diagnosed about the same time 5 years ago.

The ex sinkie guy is overweight and leads a sedentary lifestyle. He opted for drugs treatment and still does not exercise. He is now suffering complications.

The other guy is Kiwi. He decided he wanted to beat the disease through weight loss and exercise and diet modification. I met him through our cycling community. He does regular rides. His diabetes has been beaten through will power. He does not need medication.

 

[yellowarse]

The ex sinkie guy is overweight and leads a sedentary lifestyle. He opted for drugs treatment and still does not exercise. He is now suffering complications.

I get your point. But are you going to despise this ex-sinkie guy more than another overweight guy with an equally sedentary lifestyle but does not have diabetes on account of good genes?

There are many sedentary people out there with very mediocre dietary habits, but they don't get picked upon because they happen to have good genes – they're not fat, they don't have diabetes or hypertension or heart disease. They're certainly not 'better' people than obese people or people with chronic diseases. They're just luckier.

 

[Leongsam]

Well, so we're agreed genetics do play a part. That's a start.

You mentioned biking 250 km/week. That's exceptional, by any standard. Definitely puts you in the top 5% of the population where exercise is concerned. (I run only 15-20 km a week and none of my friends and colleagues in my age group even comes close to half of my output.)

My point is: The average fat guy has no more or less strong willpower than the average thin guy, neither more nor less lazy. Why condemn them, as if it were some lazy or weak-willed trait rather than lousy metabolism genetics that got them fat in the first place? That's like saying we should condemn low IQ students for not studying 12 hours a day to compensate when nobody in school studies that much anyway.

250km a week is not exceptional.

3 rides on the indoor trainer during the week for one hour per session = 30km x 3 = 90km

1 ride on Saturday about 2 hours fast pace = 70km

1 ride on Sunday about 2 hours = 65km (slower ride on sunday)

Commuting on bike when weather permits = about 30km per week total.

I condemn fat people just as I condemn smokers. I used to smoke 2 packs a day when I was in the army. I quit the day of my ROD and never touched another ciggie. If I can do it, why can't others.

Like I said I'm just an ordinary Joe. I run a lousy forum that has made me no money and I struggle daily with my weight. I'm not a genius like Mark Z and I'm not a world class athlete.

My only redeeming quality is I take responsibility for my own failures when they occur. I don't blame the government, the doctors, bad luck, God or any other damned thing that is usually used to absolve people from blame for their own failures.

 

[yellowarse]

250km a week is not exceptional.

3 rides on the indoor trainer during the week for one hour per session = 30km x 3 = 90km

1 ride on Saturday about 2 hours fast pace = 70km

1 ride on Sunday about 2 hours = 65km (slower ride on sunday)

Commuting on bike when weather permits = about 30km per week total.

I condemn fat people just as I condemn smokers. I used to smoke 2 packs a day when I was in the army. I quit the day of my ROD and never touched another ciggie. If I can do it, why can't others.

When I said 'exceptional', I wasn't referring to your achievements, or lack thereof. I was referring to your willpower and discipline – you're definitely in the top band, and you've proven it:

1. 250 km/week, 5 rides a week. The American Heart Association only recommends 50 minutes low-to-moderate intensity workout (e.g. brisk walking) 3 times a week. And most heart patients can't even comply, not to mention your average Joe. (Most of my friends put in only 1 session a week.)

2. You quit smoking (2 packs/day) cold turkey, just like that. How many can do that? You're only the 3rd ex-smoker I've known to have quit like that, and stayed that way. I've known hundreds of smokers and the vast majority couldn't quit, despite trying all kinds of methods – drugs, nicotine patches, acupuncture, e-cigs, etc.

No, I was wrong. I think where willpower and discipline is concerned, you're probably in the top 1%. And you expect the 99% to be like you?

 

[Leongsam]

I get your point. But are you going to despise this ex-sinkie guy more than another overweight guy with an equally sedentary lifestyle but does not have diabetes on account of good genes?

There are many sedentary people out there with very mediocre dietary habits, but they don't get picked upon because they happen to have good genes – they're not fat, they don't have diabetes or hypertension or heart disease. They're certainly not 'better' people than obese people or people with chronic diseases. They're just luckier.

I do not condemn anyone who is suffering from an ailment which they have no control over... eg if they were born without limbs it would be ridiculous if I despised them for not trying hard enough to grow their missing limbs through mind over matter. It simply isn't possible at the moment.

However for health issues and physical traits which someone can overcome with effort and they don't bother, that is when I pass judgement.

If we don't pass judgement over those who put no effort into overcoming adversity, what sort of society have we become?

 

[Leongsam]

No, I was wrong. I think where willpower and discipline is concerned, you're probably in the top 1%. And you expect the 99% to be like you?

I'm honestly, truly not trying to blow my own trumpet. It's really quite easy. For smoking I simply decided that it smelled awful. It was bloody hard for a couple of weeks and then the worst was over. Are you trying to tell me that 99% of the population cannot overcome just a couple of weeks of withdrawal symptoms???

As for exercise it takes just a bit of discipline. It's a lot easier than the cold turkey of quitting smoking.

5 to 6 pm on Monday, Wed, Thursday I climb onto my bike set up on an indoor trainer and run a training DVD that lasts one hour. It's simply a routine. If I don't do it, I have nothing else to do because that time is already allocated to exercise.

Weekends is a lot easier because I am with friends. 2 hours of riding goes by in no time and it is a pleasure not torture.

 

[zhihau]

Are you trying to tell me that 99% of the population cannot overcome just a couple of weeks of withdrawal symptoms???

Those 6 sticks Dunhill bestest to carry around in the past, coupled with a cup of coffee. That's most satisfying for me.

But you're right that we just need to fight the cold turkey period, feel free as a bird once beaten it.

 

[mojito]

Fat people should not reproduce. Exercise only attempts to mask their poor genes from potential mates. Exercise is deception. You don't fool me, Sam. Stop deceiving yourself!

 

[Froggy]

Google for images of blacks taken during the civil rights movement of the 60s. You'll hardly see a single overweight negro.

How could you call them negro? That's so insensitive of you. I really cannot imagine what you call your fellow Maori.

 

[yellowarse]

I'm honestly, truly not trying to blow my own trumpet. It's really quite easy. For smoking I simply decided that it smelled awful. It was bloody hard for a couple of weeks and then the worst was over. Are you trying to tell me that 99% of the population cannot overcome just a couple of weeks of withdrawal symptoms???

Nor am I trying to patronize you. Quitting smoking is hard enough. Staying off is even harder. I know, because I once helped people to quit (am a non-smoker myself). For everyone who succeeds, a hundred fail. Those who succeed by cold turkey are even rarer. One guy I know struggled to go down from 40 cigs a day to 4 cigs in 3 months. Went through a stressful period at work and was back at 40 cigs/day within a week. Another guy went cold turkey like you – succeeded, but relapsed in 6 months and is back to 2 packs a day. It's that difficult. One ex-marijuana addict told me quitting drugs is easier than quitting cigs; he's still smoking.

Check out krafty's thread: http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?221348-how-to-quit-smoking

As for exercise it takes just a bit of discipline. It's a lot easier than the cold turkey of quitting.

Maybe you hang out with a bunch of guys who love biking. A select group, definitely not representative of the general population.

My friends are more diverse. I work out 4 times a week – 2 runs, 2 gym sessions. None, save one, of my friends exercise more than twice a week, usually at the weekend. Half of them don't even exercise at all, except for the odd game of badminton or tennis. They marvel at me, but think I'm nuts for putting in 4 days a week.

Again, when I compare myself with people I know, I realize that what seems to me a matter of routine is actually beyond the level of discipline and perseverance many people are capable of mustering. There are many exercise nuts out there, but they'll always be at the fringe of society, a minority.

We tend to take our positive traits for granted, until we look around us and find that they're really quite uncommon. That's why the world is so fucked up.

 

[SarahPeiLing]

Nor am I trying to patronize you. Quitting smoking is hard enough. Staying off is even harder. I know, because I once helped people to quit (am a non-smoker myself). For everyone who succeeds, a hundred fail..

I've known a lot of people who succeeded in quitting smoking. All it takes is a little will power. Perhaps you are mixing around with people of poor will power. In his memoirs, Lee Kuan Yew said that he quit smoking in two weeks despite having been a chain smoker.

My friends are more diverse. I work out 4 times a week – 2 runs, 2 gym sessions. None, save one, of my friends exercise more than twice a week, usually at the weekend. Half of them don't even exercise at all, except for the odd game of badminton or tennis. They marvel at me, but think I'm nuts for putting in 4 days a week..

Again, I cannot but get the impression that you mix with lackadaisical company. My friends find time to work out despite having to manage children, work, church, and socializing. Its a matter of priorities. Some of them use their regular lunch break to work out and then squeeze in a quick vegetable sandwich on their way back to the office. My colleagues organize runs around Boat Quay every other evening; half of them married by the way so they need to rush back to their families after the run.

 

[yellowarse]

I've known a lot of people who succeeded in quitting smoking. All it takes is a little will power. Perhaps you are mixing around with people of poor will power. In his memoirs, Lee Kuan Yew said that he quit smoking in two weeks despite having been a chain smoker.

I was helping people quit, so I see a much broader spectrum of smokers – those who succeeded, those who succeeded but relapsed, and those who failed. As I say, for every one guy you know who succeeded, I can show you ten who failed. I know one guy who succeeded and relapsed 3 times; he gave up trying.

Why do you think we have one of the highest smoking incidence in the developed world despite our high tobacco taxes? And the incidence is climbing every year.

BTW, LKY is a poor example. He's an extraordinary specimen of iron will and insatiable drive for power. That's why he was who he was. Show me a 'relac one corner' Mat who can quit 2 packs a day cold turkey and I'll buy you lunch.

 

[SarahPeiLing]

I was helping people quit, so I see a much broader spectrum of smokers – those who succeeded, those who succeeded but relapsed, and those who failed. As I say, for every one guy you know who succeeded, I can show you ten who failed.

Why do you think we have one of the highest smoking incidence in the developed world despite our high tobacco taxes? And the incidence is climbing every year.

Okay noted.

 

[yellowarse]

I've actually desisted from talking about the social genesis of obesity, but perhaps now it's as good a time as any other to discuss it.

In many developed countries today, the obesity epidemic is associated with the poor and underclass – blacks and white trailer trash in the US, Maoris in NZ, Abos in Aus, Malays in Singapore, etc. Several factors are being put forward by sociologists and economists:

1. Lack of time for exercise. Most poor people are hourly rated and work long hours to make ends meet. Many hold down 2 or more jobs. Many run single-parent households. Ergo, no time for exercise.

2. Cheap fast food. The poor do not have time to cook healthy meals owing to long work and commuting schedules, so most consume fast food on the move. Moreover, it is actually cheaper to buy fast food than buy organic groceries and cook your own food in many Western countries. (A plate of chicken rice costs less than a balanced home-cooked meal in Singapore too.) But fast food is cheat food: it's processed, high in calories, low in nutrition and contains carcinogens as well as harmful substances like trans fats.

3. Lack of awareness. Many fat people are under-educated and semi-literate, as you'd expect those in the lowest social stratum to be. They don't have an inkling about what a balanced diet is, what kind of foods are harmful, how to count calories, what are the consequences of eating junk food. Esoteric terms like anti-oxidants and metabolic syndrome are Greek to them. I know a young Malay woman who buys french fries for her son every day, because she read somewhere that 'potatoes are good for your health'.

So, obesity is not just about poor willpower and discipline. In its broadest context as a social problem and medical epidemic, it is a problem of poverty. As long as the rich-poor gap keeps on widening, and the poor are perpetually caught in the poverty trap, expect the incidence of obesity to rise exponentially even as the rich get richer and society as a whole gets wealthier.