Living in JB 2 (Johore)

[ginfreely]

No body like this, if the government have choice, i don't think they want to do that, no country wanted to do that for no reason, i am not sure about the autual motive behind, thousand of reason from economic point from view, no offence and seriously i don't think those scholar behind are not as good as ordinary ppl like us, still working for someone and struggling to survive. Anyway, Singapore is still 1 of the healthy umployment rate in the world. I read some good quote from someone, could be 1 of you here.

Complains are just voices from the people, some valid, some nonsensical. It takes wise leaders to discern which is which. It takes lazy leaders to ignore all. It takes morally corrupted leaders to sleeve out those which serves their own purposes. It takes stupid leaders to work on all complains.

Unemployment rate is low as a whole but what is the Singaporeans only unemployment rate? It was never disclosed. All data for "locals" include PRs. No choice? The whole world governments have choice, only Singapore govt has no choice but to open the floodgate to let in so many third world countries workers to depress the workers' wages and take away Singaporeans' jobs?

While the workers wages are being depressed, at the same time, the SG govt's wages increased alot. Their pay/bonus was linked to GDP only, by letting in so many people within a short time, the demand for housing, retail etc increased and GDP increase means their pay/bonus will increase. 8 months bonus or something like that.

How the many people let in and Singaporeans are going to live in a small island was not part of the SG govt's considerations. This explained why nothing was done on housing, MRT and other infrastructure for the few years that they were letting in the tonnes of people. Infact, the SG govt reduced the supply of HDB during this time while they were letting in so many people knowingly.

Complaints? I think if this kind of things happened in Malaysia or other countries, it will not be complains but protests and riots already.

 

[Icyraine]

Sorry to say but some cannot survive and leave early lo, how to survive until today.

The aging issue in Malaysia is much better hence you will see lesser elderly as compare to Singapore.

I have to give it to u on this one! like that also can?? hahaha.

 

[Whathefish]

Unemployment rate is low as a whole but what is the Singaporeans only unemployment rate? It was never disclosed. All data for "locals" include PRs. No choice? The whole world governments have choice, only Singapore govt has no choice but to open the floodgate to let in so many third world countries workers to depress the workers' wages and take away Singaporeans' jobs?

While the workers wages are being depressed, at the same time, the SG govt's wages increased alot. Their pay/bonus was linked to GDP only, by letting in so many people within a short time, the demand for housing, retail etc increased and GDP increase means their pay/bonus will increase. 8 months bonus or something like that.

How the many people let in and Singaporeans are going to live in a small island was not part of the SG govt's considerations. This explained why nothing was done on housing, MRT and other infrastructure for the few years that they were letting in the tonnes of people. Infact, the SG govt reduced the supply of HDB during this time while they were letting in so many people knowingly.

Complaints? I think if this kind of things happened in Malaysia or other countries, it will not be complains but protests and riots already.

Eh Hillside bro, the phrase i coined one leh, plaguarise give credits lah :P
"Totally agree. Complains are just voices from the people, some valid, some nonsensical. It takes wise leaders to discern which is which. It takes lazy leaders to ignore all. It takes morally corrupted leaders to sleeve out those which serves their own purposes. It takes stupid leaders to work on all complains. " - whathefish, 7/12/2011 posted

 

[yonglip]

There is indeed space constraints in Singapore. But I realise that we have lots of freedom here. Freedom to roam the streets , freedom to jog at night along park connectors, freedom to walk to a nearby food court for supper. Most HDBs come with a beautiful park and that is our garden and playground. Elderly mobile people in Singapore are free to go down to coffeeshops for coffee and meals anytime and can even do their daily marketing for the family. Some even walk their grandkids to school. Great transport system here is a plus.

However, I know of elderly men or women who are stuck in their terrace houses with grilles in Malaysia and are not mobile at all - they can't move around easily as there are no public transport accessible and they cannot drive - they can only wait for their children to bring them out during the weekends.

So who is the one living in the cage?

Bro. Agree that there is loads of physical freedom for elderly to roam around SG, unaided even. But i worry in the future most of this roaming might be to report for work (hopefully not to clean toilet) even when i am way past my expiry date.

To me, financial freedom is the key to an enriching retirement life,..in other words, i dont mind being caged while watching happyTV, surfing internet, looking after my nice plants/grandkids, devoting more time to my religion i.e. basically doing the things i like and not having to worry about whether my kids will be kind enough to give me the next allowance or whether my bills have all been settled.

For me, the Msia property allows me to take a closer step towards acheiving this goal.

cheers.

 

[ginfreely]

In Spore I know many Spore citizens complain that foreigners are treated best but lets face it, Sporeans are still able to buy heavily-subsided flats with CPF grants and additional CPF grants and when the time comes, point a middle finger to Spore and convert to RM or RMB to retire in another country.

...

You sound like ALL Singaporeans are entitled to buy heavily-subsidized flats and get CPF grants and additional CPF grants. But let's face it, not all Singaporeans have such privilege. I am 100% Singaporean, not born rich, not rich and just average wage earner also never qualified for a new HDB flat in my life. I know of many others who don't qualify too if they are single or married later in life (so their combined wages are above $8k or now $10k).

 

[vincentck]

with macs singaporean can stay here for long time or forever at this moment, i don't noticed singaporean banned for entering msia so far, do you know msia will ban for entering spore if staying spore for more than 1 or 2 months without proper permit?

I can attest to this as I was prohibited from entering SG back in year 2009. Apparently a Msian can only stay 60 out of 90 days in SG. ONce the 60 days is up, the Msian needs to wait for a month or so before he can enter SG. Fortunately at that time, my friend was able to fetch me from Tuas checkpoint into JB so I didn't have to spend the night at the ICA office.

Your "affordability" comparison is not correct. Given the same affordability, the person easily can buy 2x landed of your example in Msia, stay in one, rent out one for added returns.

At a broad view of statistics, 30-40 years for ordinary pple to pay loan in Malaysia is not correct. You're quoting those lower income groups.

A typical white-collar could earn 1/2 our pay adjusted via exchange, but only need to pay for less than 1/4 of the housing loan in real terms. So how could he need 30-40 years to pay off?
Check out international affordability index papers too. The affordability index for malaysia is way way better than sg.

Actually I beg to differ. The affordability comparison is quite realistic not taking into account the property type. In KL, there are condos selling at RM500k for a 1000sf, similar to HDBs selling at S$400k for a similar size. Msians cannot use EPF to fully pay the instalments, so cash is used every month to settle the instalments while in SG, a lot of ppl (SPRs and S'poreans) pays the instalments from the CPF. To afford 2 landed properties in KL, one would need to use both husband and wife's income to apply for the bank loan.

And yes, it's normal for ppl to take 30-40 years home loan, up to a max of 65 years old. Majority of my friends only bought a property when they hit 30. I bought my first apmt (not condo) when I was 29 yrs old at RM175k, located 20km from KL city center. Don't forget the loan interest rates are high in Msia.

Then millions of those FTs come drive up HDB prices and take away jobs at all levels, we Singaporean not supposed to complaint. We suppose to be grateful that they are doing us a great service. Now even to the extend that some of us are force to stay in JB, also must be grateful that it is make possible by PAP. Thank you , all my dear FTs in Singapore .

There are only 1.3million+ foreigners in SG with the citizens and SPRs totalling 3.77mil people. And it's the FTs and S'poreans who are driving up the prices, and of course the Gov for selling the HDBs at market price, and profiting from it. I still don't understand why the SG Gov allows the citizen to buy more than one HDB if HDB is meant to be public housing and ensure that all are able to afford the "affordable" HDBs.

I used to complain and whine about the losers in the PAP administrations, esp Mah Bow Tan. But his inept and sub-par intelligence and competence in lowering the property prices have benefitted us indirectly as many Singaporeans are "forced" to sell or rent out their HDBs to stay in a 3 storey terrace in Malaysia. They get to live life to the fullest in JB thanks to Singapore's rising expenses. If Singapore prices are affordable, many Sporeans would live in a HDB forever without knowing that JB is actually a value-for-money HOME for them.

That's true... definitely the push factor is the main reason by we started looking for something out of SG.

Disclaimer: BTW, these are all for discussion purpose... no offence is meant and I agree that both countries has their pros and cons.

 

[whoami]

I can attest to this as I was prohibited from entering SG back in year 2009. Apparently a Msian can only stay 60 out of 90 days in SG. ONce the 60 days is up, the Msian needs to wait for a month or so before he can enter SG. Fortunately at that time, my friend was able to fetch me from Tuas checkpoint into JB so I didn't have to spend the night at the ICA office.

I still don't understand why the SG Gov allows the citizen to buy more than one HDB if HDB is meant to be public housing and ensure that all are able to afford the "affordable" HDBs.

Wonder whether got such ruling when We sporean go over JB i.e. 60/90days ruling?

Hmm...dont quite understand. U mean I can buy more than one HDB flat??

 

[ginfreely]

After they get all the subsidies for HDB, education and government subisdies, and when they finally finished, they still have an advantage. The second generation Singaporean has a choice to choose to convert back to being a Malaysian again. Not alot of people knows about this.

Oh now then I know got such benefit to convert back to Malaysian for second generation Singaporean. Only heard that Indians and Pinoys can convert back to their own citizenship easily. Nowadays see quite a number of Indians and Pinoy new citizens.

 

[ginfreely]

Yes, PM me. I can pass you some contacts.

Hi Wuqi, can I have the CCTV contacts too. Thanks.

 

[Whathefish]

Actually I beg to differ. The affordability comparison is quite realistic not taking into account the property type. In KL, there are condos selling at RM500k for a 1000sf, similar to HDBs selling at S$400k for a similar size. Msians cannot use EPF to fully pay the instalments, so cash is used every month to settle the instalments while in SG, a lot of ppl (SPRs and S'poreans) pays the instalments from the CPF. To afford 2 landed properties in KL, one would need to use both husband and wife's income to apply for the bank loan.

And yes, it's normal for ppl to take 30-40 years home loan, up to a max of 65 years old. Majority of my friends only bought a property when they hit 30. I bought my first apmt (not condo) when I was 29 yrs old at RM175k, located 20km from KL city center. Don't forget the loan interest rates are high in Msia..

For your e.g. The Mthly installments for the 500k RM msia house is RM 2445, the HDB one is SGD 1478, after exchange, it's RM3547 which is 45% more.
The weird thing is what are you comparing Msia Condo to HDB? You mentioned your appt is at 175k, isn't that a fairer comparison to HDBs?

The problem is, some u you tried to downgrade Msian's property types, compare landed to our HDB, compare condos to our HDB.. is that even a correct comparison?

Another issue, using CPF vs EPF comparison is also not correct. Even though they can't use much of the EPF for housing, their interest rates on EPF is very high, which can be plough for retirement. When you use CPF for housing, you DON't earn the interest, just mitigate the housing interest. To compare both, you're to take retirement as the "end state".

 

[Icyraine]

haha!!!! i was a FT, soon i will be FT, i will be commute daily, please welcome me and welcome you, cheers!!

:*: what are u trying to say??

 

[yonglip]

I mentioned this before in the forum. For every new convert that buys a home and stays in JB, there is an equal number of old timer who tried, regretted and is thinking of moving back to SG.

I have an elderly friend who bought a place in Jb 2 years ago. Rented out his HDB in SG and stayed in JB for the last 2 years. Unfortunately, heard from him recently that he is looking to sell his place and move back to SG. Reasons: he doesnt drive and the place is lacking in amenities. Also being a single, it can get extremely lonely for him. When i ask him to learn driving and buy a cheap M'sia car, he says he doesnt want to spend the money and dont think he wants to try driving,..scared even. I have also heard of stories of whole families who uprooted from SG and is now thinking of coming back.

I always believe that JB is not for everybody especially those who think that uprooting to JB will avoid many of the problems one is currently facing in SG. Just becos someone else is thriving doesnt mean that you will also thrive. Sadly the person doesnt realised that locality is not the problem, the problem is with him (attitude). So going anywhere for that matter he will also encounter the same obstacles, JB or otherwise.

There could be people who stumbled onto this forum, read it religiously for days end, and figured that if that guy can do it, i can also do it. worse if the person have not even been to JB all his life and whatever knowledge is gleaned from this forum. I still remember reading many pages ago where someone commented the one and only place he know in JB is HH. never even been to other parts of JB and yet is ready to settle in JB.


Cheers.

 

[Icyraine]

Just came bk fr jb, went to bk Indah to buy bulbs, reached 640pm, e shops there so early closed de. So went to hh pasar malam to jalan. The stalls just begin to open. So not so crowded.

cystal, where is the pasar malam at HH? i didnt know there is one.... coz i am not staying there yet.

 

[euphony]

i think most of us once had gainful employment full time in the very beginning. the PR can then be sponsored/seconded by the company. Prior to the new millenium, ICA sends letters of offers for PR to all of us when we graduated from poly and/or uni automatically, that's how I gained my PR status. After that, how one chooses to reap the benefits is completely up to the individual. that's how you separate the wheat from the chaff, you can't really say I forbid you in making wise choices - like the aforementioned individual right?

And to emphasis the point, that yonglip bro has mentioned. Some are living comfortably in JB whilst others don't. A good handful of us are indeed enjoying our time because we've either eliminated the need to commute daily back to sg or have very liberal schedules and are enjoying the cheaper side across the red dot with minimal stress. u've gotta work the system not fault it.

To me ....SPR living in JB and not really working in singapore but holding on to HDB to collect rental ....sounds like a flaw in the system. The key is that he is not exactly working in SG.
But my thinking may be wrong.
I did not know that becoming a part time housing agent also can qualify as SPR.

 

[edragon]

I mentioned this before in the forum. For every new convert that buys a home and stays in JB, there is an equal number of old timer who tried, regretted and is thinking of moving back to SG.

I have an elderly friend who bought a place in Jb 2 years ago. Rented out his HDB in SG and stayed in JB for the last 2 years. Unfortunately, heard from him recently that he is looking to sell his place and move back to SG. Reasons: he doesnt drive and the place is lacking in amenities. Also being a single, it can get extremely lonely for him. When i ask him to learn driving and buy a cheap M'sia car, he says he doesnt want to spend the money and dont think he wants to try driving,..scared even. I have also heard of stories of whole families who uprooted from SG and is now thinking of coming back.

I always believe that JB is not for everybody especially those who think that uprooting to JB will avoid many of the problems one is currently facing in SG. Just becos someone else is thriving doesnt mean that you will also thrive. Sadly the person doesnt realised that locality is not the problem, the problem is with him (attitude). So going anywhere for that matter he will also encounter the same obstacles, JB or otherwise.

There could be people who stumbled onto this forum, read it religiously for days end, and figured that if that guy can do it, i can also do it. worse if the person have not even been to JB all his life and whatever knowledge is gleaned from this forum. I still remember reading many pages ago where someone commented the one and only place he know in JB is HH. never even been to other parts of JB and yet is ready to settle in JB.


Cheers.

I met a couple who have been staying in Setia's project for a few months and the lady told me that she is afraid someone will climb in through the roof and it is affecting her so it is not good for her staying in this new taman.

Can she eventually overcome this fear or phobia?
Or, is it more deep rooted like loneliness similiar to your elderly friend.

I reckon it take a strong and independent person to overcome all this psychological barriers, definitely not everyone's cup of tea.

 

[hillside]

:*: what are u trying to say??

sorry my england not so good, i worked in Spore until 2005, currently working in Msia and going to work in Spore soon (welcome me), will stay in JB (welcome you).

 

[wuqi256]

I met a couple who have been staying in Setia's project for a few months and the lady told me that she is afraid someone will climb in through the roof and it is affecting her so it is not good for her staying in this new taman.

Can she eventually overcome this fear or phobia?
Or, is it more deep rooted like loneliness similiar to your elderly friend.

I reckon it take a strong and independent person to overcome all this psychological barriers, definitely not everyone's cup of tea.

There will always be phobias, real or imagined. It does not take much but alot of perseverance and just a willingness to see things through
rather than run at the first sign of trouble (that type of attitude will never take you anywhere).

Speaking of Setia, they are launching an international school and those folks who already purchased Eco Setia or Setia @ Bukit Indah including
Skyloft would get first dibs on registering for the school. Just thought this information will be useful.

 

[maxpark]

Was traveling past few days and the pages literally flew away!

It's an interesting discussion on living in JB vs Singapore pros and cons.

Personally, I dont think there is a specific answer as to which is better ... as each of us here, view it from different backgrounds, circumstances, priorities and resources... not to mention age, experience, money, connections, etc.


You see my grass green green, I may see your grass greener still... never end one lar...

 

[wuqi256]

I mentioned this before in the forum. For every new convert that buys a home and stays in JB, there is an equal number of old timer who tried, regretted and is thinking of moving back to SG.

I have an elderly friend who bought a place in Jb 2 years ago. Rented out his HDB in SG and stayed in JB for the last 2 years. Unfortunately, heard from him recently that he is looking to sell his place and move back to SG. Reasons: he doesnt drive and the place is lacking in amenities. Also being a single, it can get extremely lonely for him. When i ask him to learn driving and buy a cheap M'sia car, he says he doesnt want to spend the money and dont think he wants to try driving,..scared even. I have also heard of stories of whole families who uprooted from SG and is now thinking of coming back.

I always believe that JB is not for everybody especially those who think that uprooting to JB will avoid many of the problems one is currently facing in SG. Just becos someone else is thriving doesnt mean that you will also thrive. Sadly the person doesnt realised that locality is not the problem, the problem is with him (attitude). So going anywhere for that matter he will also encounter the same obstacles, JB or otherwise.

There could be people who stumbled onto this forum, read it religiously for days end, and figured that if that guy can do it, i can also do it. worse if the person have not even been to JB all his life and whatever knowledge is gleaned from this forum. I still remember reading many pages ago where someone commented the one and only place he know in JB is HH. never even been to other parts of JB and yet is ready to settle in JB.


Cheers.

Agree, the mindset must change, else it will be just like those who went to NZ, AU and Canada who came back in the end. Thats why from the onset, i have always advised to come and see for yourself and then make an informed decision. Seeing is believing but of course there is still no 100% guarantee it will suit your needs. I did talk much about HH even though i did post and recommend about various other properties too. Those who just read part of the forum may have not seen my other property postings. I have never stopped anyone to find out more or to seek out other properties though and have even assisted some of them through PMs or emails when they have doubts about the development they purchased. Both of my closest relatives bought at Nusa Duta.
Still find it somehow strange though i have always said EL is the best, somehow the opinion about HH stuck. Only exception was a bro who was keen on East Ledang but bought Skyloft instead.

This forum, for all its information is not a 100% foolproof guide or guarantee in life. That is why forummers who PMed me asking for guarantee of safety 5 metres away from her car after alighting from the CW3 bus. I politely provided her the information and suggested her to stay in Singapore instead. It was a weird question though as apparently she has been to many countries, some worse than Malaysia in terms of safety.

On and off you will see people posting crime stuff in JB, i neither moderate (even when its just posting of news without any contribution from the poster) nor post any reply about these. The other thread about SG crime and the newspapers should have already make things quite plain what my thoughts about crime is and to take into consideration, the context and the relativity of things.

 

[wuqi256]

cystal, where is the pasar malam at HH? i didnt know there is one.... coz i am not staying there yet.

When you are driving towards HH after passing Jusco on your left, continue on and its at the first row of shophouses on your left. Quite a good turnout tonight as i was driving home.
There is another segment of shophouses further down where there won't be a pasar malam but you will see loads of exotic animals.