Lawrence Wong, let me tell you the real reason behind why fertility rates are dropping and people are not getting married

[TerrexLee]

Stop listening to the filtered bullsh1t that your ministries and data analysts are feeding you in painting a nice picture. Data can be manipulated but ground sentiments are genuine.

Want to know why people are not dating or getting married, and young couples are not having as many kids as the country would like to have? Besides the small proportion that is by choice, let me tell you what the people on the ground are facing

1. High HDB prices. You can rely on your stats to say that median income is rising, salaries in certain sectors are top globally etc. the truth is that home prices have vastly outpaced wages. HDB is ramping up supply? So what? Did you see the ratio of applicants vs available units in each launch? 5-7 people applying for each unit? Even in non mature estates? Just ask around incognito, how many people have applied for BTO for many times and cannot get it? Even if so lucky to get a good number, how’s that 4-6 years of waiting time?

you let new citizens apply, you let second timers apply. Your ministry has no conviction in imposing more serious measures like increasing the MOP to 10-15 years, capping resale profits, do a big claw back of the subsidies given. Some households get their BTO and leave it empty, only for them to sell when MOP is up. Some lock up 1 room to rent out the whole unit to bypass the MOP renting rule. You can say that HDB has enforcement actions for such cases, but honestly, how often are they caught?

You turn an almost blind eye to the resale HDB market, allowing it to be controlled by market forces despite it being a public housing, with superficial “cooling measures” that don’t even address the root cause of speculation and lack of supply. You let SPRs buy public flats, competing with genuine Singaporean buyers. In return, your BTO prices are then supported by the “market prices”, letting you price them high. $877k for a AMK BTO? $500k for A Tengah BTO? And you say you want to keep HDB affordable?

you support controlled capitalism as this is a strong voting base, understandably you don’t want to curtail Singaporean’s aspiration of upgrading. These people buy private properties, hoarding their HDB flats to rent out, further worsening the supply situation, depriving people who genuinely need housing. It is in national interest as the taxes that come from such consumption adds to the national coffers.

2. You harp on having a good work life balance, flexible working, yet everything is about “monitor, recommend, suggest” and not “implement, enforce”. Your willingness or rather unwillingness to directly intervene for fear of companies relocating simply means that your words are weak, since there are no actionable plans. It’s just talk, monitor and talk again. How many companies are have unofficial long working hours? SG’s productivity doesn’t originate from its innovation. It comes at the expense of actual working hours, people exchanging their time to administer your GDP tools. This is why you have a hard time getting exponential growth. Young couples work long hours, going home without the mood to date or have any personal life to pursue familihood.

3. Mobility - one of the factors influencing familihood is mobility. Directly, it affects quality of life. Indirectly, it affects your mood, your subconscious habits, you perception towards having to do something vs wanting to do something. You claim that COE is a form to controlling car population. COE itself is already a quota. Regardless of whether COE is at $1 or at $1m a piece, the quota is the same. But you decide to leave COE allocation to market forces. Who bids the highest will get it. What’s wrong with earning more money plus this is the most transparent way of allocation. But is it equitable? Families buy 5-6 cars to park at home, while people who actually need a car for mobility needs (eg young families with children or elderly parents) are priced out of a bread and butter car. You present info that implies fleet owners bid more than half of CAT A COEs, yet say such fleet owners do not impact prices. You claim that SG public transport is sufficient. Of course everything is sufficient. Leftover food can also be eaten, sufficient for sustenance. But for young families, have you tried to push a stroller or a wheelchair into buses or MRT during peak hours? Or the fact that people’s workplaces and childcare are not always next to their houses? With a 1-2 hours travelling 1 way, how many will have energy for familihood or for dating?

Lawrence Wong, if you genuinely want to tackle these issues, you need to first understand the actual root causes and not just look at the data. The data is just a reflection of the RESULT of the root cause. What’s the point of tackling the result when the underlying cause is not addressed? It’s just pasting a band aid over a festering wound. The wound will continue to rot if you don’t treat it.

 

[batman1]

Pap are aliens living in outer space.

 

[Leoric]

Pap are aliens living in outer space.

Roti Prata is their favorite breakfast

 

[mahjongking]

of course PAP understands, they just DONT give a fuck to locals

he missed out rising coffeeshop food prices

 

[laksaboy]

There's a very easy way to solve the problem: impose strict quotas on female employees and university students. Allocate most of the vacancies for males. Give it a few years and the problem will rectify itself.

Of course, the likes of AWARE will throw a hissy fit, and the eunuch-technocrats are scared shitless about offending them. Therefore the slow economic and demographic suicide will continue unabated.

Go on, keep believing that flexi work hours, baby bonus, maternity leave, building more childcare facilities etc will solve the problem. They make for great soundbites for shameless career politicians to showcase how hardworking they are.

Then again, maybe it's not a problem. It's part of the grand goal for depopulating the planet for a more 'sustainable future'. Ask your globalist masters at the WEF and the UN.

 

[congo9]

This is what he call evidence base policy making. That means they will look at the statistic and start to make amendments to the existing policy or formulate new ones.

 

[red amoeba]

whatever PAP do, nothing will reverse the low fertility. they can stop smoking whatever they have in the pipe.
the world is getting from bad to worse.

 

[jw5]

The real reason is that when the guys shoot, they cannot hear the "pew pew pew" sound anymore.

 

[JohnTan]

1. High HDB prices. You can rely on your stats to say that median income is rising, salaries in certain sectors are top globally etc. the truth is that home prices have vastly outpaced wages. HDB is ramping up supply? So what? Did you see the ratio of applicants vs available units in each launch? 5-7 people applying for each unit? Even in non mature estates? Just ask around incognito, how many people have applied for BTO for many times and cannot get it? Even if so lucky to get a good number, how’s that 4-6 years of waiting time?

So there is strong demand for PAP's flats after all.

Some households get their BTO and leave it empty, only for them to sell when MOP is up.

That's the beauty of property investment. For a small deposit, you now legally own a $500k property. Only an idiot does math and calculate how old he'll be before he pays off the HDB loan.

A more savvy investor would have flipped the HDB flat after 5 years and made a hefty profit at the expense of new citizens and PRs, scoring a huge win for Team Singapore against new sinkies and foreigners.

2. You harp on having a good work life balance, flexible working

Look at how active and vibrant our nightlife is. That means people have to work in the evenings and at nights. You want work-life balance, move to NZ or Australia, where poeple knock off at 5pm, including those in retail and many F&Bs.

 

[nightsafari]

Sorry John.

Can't agree with you here.

So there is strong demand for PAP's flats after all.

Since when was lack of demand ever an issue??

That's the beauty of property investment. For a small deposit, you now legally own a $500k property. Only an idiot does math and calculate how old he'll be before he pays off the HDB loan.

A more savvy investor would have flipped the HDB flat after 5 years and made a hefty profit at the expense of new citizens and PRs, scoring a huge win for Team Singapore against new sinkies and foreigners.

The only reason why your methodology even remotely works is because of constantly increasing prices. It still doesn't address the original problem of hardships for the family. In fact it is proof that the original commentary is correct and it is too difficult/expensive to raise a family in Singapore. The moment the constant price increases stop, a lot of people will be left underwater. Not a sound method for housing a populace.

Look at how active and vibrant our nightlife is. That means people have to work in the evenings and at nights. You want work-life balance, move to NZ or Australia, where poeple knock off at 5pm, including those in retail and many F&Bs.

And move I believe they will. Those with the funds at least. Those without may be forced to look for cheaper pastures.

 

[eatshitndie]

a sinkie couple with kids can afford a maid. in sillycon valley, having a non-live-in maid (8am to 5pm) can cost $3.69k a month and live-in maid can cost $6.9k a month. sinkies with kids should count their lucky stars.

 

[cow138]

Well said. Instead of continue to monitor should work on implement and enforce.. these two key phrases are hardly heard at all.. always status quo and apply market forces to solve problems

 

[JohnTan]

The only reason why your methodology even remotely works is because of constantly increasing prices.

My methodology doesn't "remotely" works. It simply works! Ask any sinkie who bought BTO in the 1970s - 1990s whether they made money from their BTO. Even many sinkies today are making money from their BTOs because they know the resale market will offer a higher price for their flats.

A lot of sinkies forget or are completely ignorant about the concept of financial leverage when it comes to buying property, equating it to buying groceries or food, where you have to pay up all at once and cannot owe.

In fact it is proof that the original commentary is correct and it is too difficult/expensive to raise a family in Singapore.

There are families around with 5 or more kids. They are doing just fine. None of them have literally starved to death like what many beng sinkies like to claim.

The moment the constant price increases stop, a lot of people will be left underwater. Not a sound method for housing a populace.

I think Singapore is doing far better than HK for public housing. The government here prioritizes housing for its citizens. It's totally opposite in HK, where the government uses environmentalist groups to sue and block nearly all attempts to expand land use for public housing.

The PAP is constantly investing money to expand public infrastructure, parks and good jobs. All those contribute to higher demand for housing within Singapore. If you want very low housing prices, you are welcome to move to another country where public transport and utilities is underdeveloped.

 

[nightsafari]

My methodology doesn't "remotely" works. It simply works! Ask any sinkie who bought BTO in the 1970s - 1990s whether they made money from their BTO. Even many sinkies today are making money from their BTOs because they know the resale market will offer a higher price for their flats.

A lot of sinkies forget or are completely ignorant about the concept of financial leverage when it comes to buying property, equating it to buying groceries or food, where you have to pay up all at once and cannot owe.

I don't think they're ignorant about financial leverage at all. A lot of people I randomly sample are leveraged to the hilt. And again the reason it works is because of ever increasing prices. If the prices choose to fall, well good luck to the leveraged ones.

There are families around with 5 or more kids. They are doing just fine. None of them have literally starved to death like what many beng sinkies like to claim.

Fine and starving to death are quite far apart. How about squeezed?

I think Singapore is doing far better than HK for public housing. The government here prioritizes housing for its citizens. It's totally opposite in HK, where the government uses environmentalist groups to sue and block nearly all attempts to expand land use for public housing.

The PAP is constantly investing money to expand public infrastructure, parks and good jobs. All those contribute to higher demand for housing within Singapore. If you want very low housing prices, you are welcome to move to another country where public transport and utilities is underdeveloped.

HK is poor comparison. The housing warlords own that country.

I have to agree that on your last point is correct. The work done has generally been better than most governments.

But still, back to the crux of the original point. While the work done has been good, I feel that a good portion is lost somewhere. Whether through repetitive work or wasted money or overly high salaries I don't know, but the original point is that the families are squeezed hard enough to feel the pressure.

Pointing out that you can, indeed must, make hay from leveraging on property is precisely the kind of pressure that people feel. Again, you have proven the original poster correct.

 

[nightsafari]

a sinkie couple with kids can afford a maid. in sillycon valley, having a non-live-in maid (8am to 5pm) can cost $3.69k a month and live-in maid can cost $6.9k a month. sinkies with kids should count their lucky stars.

that's because sinkie has no minimum wage requirements. Sinkie maids are paid less than illegal chicos.

 

[JohnTan]

I don't think they're ignorant about financial leverage at all. A lot of people I randomly sample are leveraged to the hilt. And again the reason it works is because of ever increasing prices. If the prices choose to fall, well good luck to the leveraged ones.

Really? That's good to know.

A lot of oppies like to complain about the prices of HDB and when they can fully pay off the housing loan, or needing $700k to buy a $700k. That reeks of complete ignorance of financial leverage or never having once bought a home.

HK is poor comparison. The housing warlords own that country.

Most of the land, is actually owned by the HK government. When the HK government wants to allocated more land for housing, converting forested land to public housing, they've historically faced lawsuits from environmentalist groups. And these lawsuits drag on for years before construction can even start.

7% of HK's land is allocated for housing, and 74% allocated for nature parks and reservoirs. With such limited supply, property prices remain high. And unlike the PAP government, HK government derives a lot of their budget from land sales and high property prices.

Pointing out that you can, indeed must, make hay from leveraging on property is precisely the kind of pressure that people feel. Again, you have proven the original poster correct.

Sinkies must make money from HDB property just like people must breathe. Don't make it sound so bad.

Back in the days when sinkies were earning $500 a month, they could buy a HDB flat costing $30k by putting down a small deposit. But that small deposit makes them the legal owner of a $30k flat. You can't put down $1 deposit at a supermarket and walk off with $50 worth of groceries.

Nearly everyone makes use of financial leverage when they buy a house or a car, whether they stay in Singapore or overseas.

 

[tobelightlight]

Nearly everyone makes use of financial leverage when they buy a house or a car, whether they stay in Singapore or overseas.

Financial leverage is a fancy marketing term used here to make you in debt for the next 20 to 40 years. That is low IQ.

 

[JohnTan]

Financial leverage is a fancy marketing term used here to make you in debt for the next 20 to 40 years. That is low IQ.

Most sinkies sell their homes between 5 - 10 years. Low IQ sinkies believe that they have to service their loans for the next 30 years.

 

[tobelightlight]

Most sinkies sell their homes between 5 - 10 years. Low IQ sinkies believe that they have to service their loans for the next 30 years.

Then they have to service thier new home loan again, isn't that back to low IQ again?

 

[JohnTan]

Then they have to service thier new home loan again, isn't that back to low IQ again?

Not if they sold their homes at a good profit and bought a cheaper home elsewhere.