Serious Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old!

[Papsmearer]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

You only know how to use vulgar language curse and swear insult others and belittle other people.

There is no need to resort to that lah. I am a medical doctor mah. I am not some financial adviser or financial guru or banker or real estate expert. Of course I don't know the nitty gritty details.

So thank you for sharing about the residents owning the physician structure of the building on a 99 year leasehold land.

But my argument still stands that what happens in the even there are no takers for an en block of a 99 year old leasehold condo? No private developers coming in for an offer simply cos SLA will not approve a higher plot ratio? What happens?

There may not be a legal precedence yet in Singapore but what happens in the even the residents own the building sitting on a land that runs out its 99 year leasehold? Again I am no lawyer. And I acknowledge that.

This is a forum for discussion right?

Papsmearer you are too full of yourself. Every discussion and disagreement you take it so personally and curse and swear vulgarities at people shows your character.

You are such a pathetic piece of shit. You have been
attacking me for weeks because you still don't grasp the principal differences between a HDB lease and a true leasehold. I am going to fuck your shit up, and I am going to show everyone here why you have selective amnesia. When you attack someone here, u better get ready to get some shit back. don't come and plead here that I am using vulgarities and what not on you. U call me an ignorant fool on a topic that I know like the back of my hand and one that I make my living on, I will call you anything I want. Got it, asshole?

nayr69sg

Alfrescian


Join DateApr 2010Posts1,184 My Reputation Points: 497 / Power: 7

[h=2]

Re: Pioneer Sinkies In Geylang To Be Homeless In 3 Years Time When Lease Runs Out![/h]

Where is papsmearer? Where is the enbloc rescue team huh?

Leasehold same as freehold?

Papsmearer you are the stupid ignorant fool!​

 

[JohnTan]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

If you think there is market forces in singapore, then I have some land in Tekong I want to sell you. There is zero, nada, zilch market forces in singapore. Think about it. If one entity owns 80% of the housing in singapore and 90% of the land, how can there be a market?. There is a monopoly, but no market. The entity sets and manipulates the price of the land, and as a monopoly, we have no choice but to pay for it. So far, the entity has decided that they want to pocket lots of money from property manipulation. The only way they can do that is to manipulate the price constantly upwards. The side benefit is that some existing flat owners will also make some money. A rising tide floats all boats as they say. Other shitizens will be priced out of the market or end up heavily in debt. This is also happening now.

There are market forces in Singapore.

No one is forcing sinkies to pay $1M for HDB apartment in Duxton or Bishan. No one is forcing anyone to buy tiny condo units for $900k. But property continues to trade at high valuations because people believe that property is worth that much or they can collect a lot of rental revenue.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

Yeah and the way i see how tall and dense HK apartments are, i don't see why any of the old 99 year old Spore condo cannot qualify for "urban renewal" to make it more dense. As it is now, the same size land in the past can already yield like 1.5 times the number of units in the same area. So give another two decades, surely can become 2 or more times and can enbloc for sure. Huat ah!

U wish. remember what Lawless Wrong said in his facebook page. Only 4% of all HDb flats have been identified as SERS or En Bloc quality. Why? Think about it. If you are the PAP, why would u let the peasants make big money in en bloc when you can chase them out using other means and then en bloc it yourself and keep the profits? That is what is happening in the vast majority of cases. Look at the older estates like Queenstown. How many residents there got en bloc? How about zero? Most likely, the en blocs will happen in oppo strongholes to make peasants there thankful to the PAP for creating direct wealth for them. HK apartments are a lot denser then zikapore ones. This is true. but do you want to live like that?

 

[ginfreely]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

U wish. remember what Lawless Wrong said in his facebook page. Only 4% of all HDb flats have been identified as SERS or En Bloc quality. Why? Think about it. If you are the PAP, why would u let the peasants make big money in en bloc when you can chase them out using other means and then en bloc it yourself and keep the profits? That is what is happening in the vast majority of cases. Look at the older estates like Queenstown. How many residents there got en bloc? How about zero? Most likely, the en blocs will happen in oppo strongholes to make peasants there thankful to the PAP for creating direct wealth for them. HK apartments are a lot denser then zikapore ones. This is true. but do you want to live like that?

I said old Spore condo, not HDB. Really? No chance? That's sad. Never mind i guess i will bring the balance lease to heaven next time for my own enjoyment after i expired on earth.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

There are market forces in Singapore.

No one is forcing sinkies to pay $1M for HDB apartment in Duxton or Bishan. No one is forcing anyone to buy tiny condo units for $900k. But property continues to trade at high valuations because people believe that property is worth that much or they can collect a lot of rental revenue.

its not really market forces here. The pricing is by and large dictated by the HDB/PAP. Look at the situation of the person who paid $1 million for the HDB flat. What are his options? Can he buy the same flat for $300K? $500K? He wishes he can but he cannot because the HDB controls all the pricing directly or indirectly and hence he cannot find flats in this price range. But on the other hand, he cannot go private condo either, because they are all selling for over $1 million. why is private condos so expensive?This happens when URA/SLA puts up land for tender and sets a floor price. Developers have no choice but to pay these big monies for land or else they cannot get in the game. The land costs is passed on to the end user and hence you have condos for well over $1 million that is just nothing fancy. So, when you look at this Duxton flat buyer, he cannot get a cheap flat and he cannot afford a private condo, all thanks to the PAP. Plus he likely has swallowed all the PAP bullshit about owning a HDB flat like owning a real flat. Hence, you have what it is. Nothing market about it.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

I said old Spore condo, not HDB. Really? No chance? That's sad. Never mind i guess i will bring the balance lease to heaven next time for my own enjoyment after i expired on earth.

Sorry Gin,
I mistakenly read your post. the answer is yes, its likely but again, its like tikum tikum. The rule now is that 80% of the owners or owners that hold 80% of the shares in whole building must agree to the en bloc. The most recent public case about 4 years ago, was Horizon Towers, of which i know personally. HT is a 99 year lease condo in prime location on Leonie Hill rd. Originally, 80% of the owners agree to en bloc but some of the others who did not agree went to court because they thought the developer was offering too little. They were right and after several years in court, the judge killed the deal. D'Leedon was an example of a successful en bloc. It only had 618 units under the old name Farrer Court, but each owner sold for over $2 million to the developer who en bloc them. Most of them paid under $600K for their units. When you can walk away with over $1.5 million in profit back in 2007 on your unit, there is no issue to find 80% owners who agree. The developer who en bloc them turned Farrer court into 1,715 units. So he made very good money even after paying so much for Farrer Court.

So the answer to your question is yes. There is a chance for en bloc. But the developer must see what URA permits him to do. If URA will permit 1.5 -3 times more units on the same piece of land, he might be tempted to offer to en bloc the building. The owners have to see what the developer is offering in order to be enticed to sell. As you can see from my example. Horizon Towers owners did not think offer was good enough, while Farrer Court owners were very happy with the offer. URA also very happy if the land is owned by a stat board because top up fees back to 99 years and also development fees and stamp duties on new and extra units will make a lot of money for them. If the land is owned privately, a renegotiation to top up is essential.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

for hdb flat, it's a 99-year prepaid tenancy. the hdb (also gov linked) leases the land from gov. the hdb "owner" does not sign a leasehold agreement directly with gov entity which acquires the land. this is unique to sg. only sinkies can believe in and commit to this surreal sense of "ownership" with their money. the rest of the world except nk will find it quite impossible to sell tenancy as ownership. most important is sinkies' acceptance and gullibility. if sinkies accept and believe, mountains can be moved and seas reclaimed.

Yes, you are right. But sinkies are stupid. They have been fed lies all their lives. The PAP and every MP and Minister tells them they are home owners and they own their flats, etc. they are too lazy to ask the question "If I really own my flat why does it say I am the tenant and the HDb is the landlord in my documents?"

 

[nayr69sg]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

Sorry Gin,
I mistakenly read your post. the answer is yes, its likely but again, its like tikum tikum. The rule now is that 80% of the owners or owners that hold 80% of the shares in whole building must agree to the en bloc. The most recent public case about 4 years ago, was Horizon Towers, of which i know personally. HT is a 99 year lease condo in prime location on Leonie Hill rd. Originally, 80% of the owners agree to en bloc but some of the others who did not agree went to court because they thought the developer was offering too little. They were right and after several years in court, the judge killed the deal. D'Leedon was an example of a successful en bloc. It only had 618 units under the old name Farrer Court, but each owner sold for over $2 million to the developer who en bloc them. Most of them paid under $600K for their units. When you can walk away with over $1.5 million in profit back in 2007 on your unit, there is no issue to find 80% owners who agree. The developer who en bloc them turned Farrer court into 1,715 units. So he made very good money even after paying so much for Farrer Court.

So the answer to your question is yes. There is a chance for en bloc. But the developer must see what URA permits him to do. If URA will permit 1.5 -3 times more units on the same piece of land, he might be tempted to offer to en bloc the building. The owners have to see what the developer is offering in order to be enticed to sell. As you can see from my example. Horizon Towers owners did not think offer was good enough, while Farrer Court owners were very happy with the offer. URA also very happy if the land is owned by a stat board because top up fees back to 99 years and also development fees and stamp duties on new and extra units will make a lot of money for them. If the land is owned privately, a renegotiation to top up is essential.

What are the chances for a private developer to be able to get a URA permit to build 1.5-3 times the 1,715 units that D'leedon has currently in the future?

D'leedon is still 99- year leasehold.

 

[aurvandil]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

Queenstown and Toa Payoh will be the acid test when high density HDB flats reach the end of their 99 year lease period.

 

[AhNehs]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

Queenstown and Toa Payoh will be the acid test when high density HDB flats reach the end of their 99 year lease period.

It will be an election issue in your children's gen and your children's children gen. Meanwhile, just kick the can down the road.

 

[nayr69sg]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

Back in 2003 I had predicted that in the future the PAP will dangle en bloc for flats approaching end of lease during elections. Imagine vote PAP flat get enbloc. Vote opposition left with $0.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

What are the chances for a private developer to be able to get a URA permit to build 1.5-3 times the 1,715 units that D'leedon has currently in the future?

D'leedon is still 99- year leasehold.

U are asking me? Someone you called "stupid ignorant fool"? hahahah, you are really pathetic.

 

[nayr69sg]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

U are asking me? Someone you called "stupid ignorant fool"? hahahah, you are really pathetic.

Yes I admit I was wrong. Sorry. I really don't know much about this leasehold thing.

 

[potter]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

Why need to wait for 50 yrs to look @ the outcome. you can check on this group in 20+ from now.
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/cs/infoweb/residential/living-in-an-hdb-flat/for-our-seniors/how-it-works

 

[ginfreely]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

Sorry Gin,
I mistakenly read your post. the answer is yes, its likely but again, its like tikum tikum. The rule now is that 80% of the owners or owners that hold 80% of the shares in whole building must agree to the en bloc. The most recent public case about 4 years ago, was Horizon Towers, of which i know personally. HT is a 99 year lease condo in prime location on Leonie Hill rd. Originally, 80% of the owners agree to en bloc but some of the others who did not agree went to court because they thought the developer was offering too little. They were right and after several years in court, the judge killed the deal. D'Leedon was an example of a successful en bloc. It only had 618 units under the old name Farrer Court, but each owner sold for over $2 million to the developer who en bloc them. Most of them paid under $600K for their units. When you can walk away with over $1.5 million in profit back in 2007 on your unit, there is no issue to find 80% owners who agree. The developer who en bloc them turned Farrer court into 1,715 units. So he made very good money even after paying so much for Farrer Court.

So the answer to your question is yes. There is a chance for en bloc. But the developer must see what URA permits him to do. If URA will permit 1.5 -3 times more units on the same piece of land, he might be tempted to offer to en bloc the building. The owners have to see what the developer is offering in order to be enticed to sell. As you can see from my example. Horizon Towers owners did not think offer was good enough, while Farrer Court owners were very happy with the offer. URA also very happy if the land is owned by a stat board because top up fees back to 99 years and also development fees and stamp duties on new and extra units will make a lot of money for them. If the land is owned privately, a renegotiation to top up is essential.

I think as long as can get offer near asking price from developer, 80% agreement from owners not difficult to get. So many enbloc cases went through, very few end up like horizon tower.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

Why need to wait for 50 yrs to look @ the outcome. you can check on this group in 20+ from now.
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/cs/infoweb/residential/living-in-an-hdb-flat/for-our-seniors/how-it-works

wah lau, you bring this up. LOL. I can start an entire thread on this scam for gullible sinkies.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

I think as long as can get offer near asking price from developer, 80% agreement from owners not difficult to get. So many enbloc cases went through, very few end up like horizon tower.

enbloc now very rare. U barely hear about them anymore. the problem with en blocs is that many times, its driven by the property agents. they will entice the owners with so many outlandish claims about how much they can get them from a developer. Its not really realistic. i can tell you its better for a developer to quietly buy as many units in the target building as possible. using proxy companies or other such entities so as not to tip off the rest of the owners. If they can buy up 10% or even 20% of all the units, they already have a big head start if they try to en bloc it. The problem is the asking price is so high and unrealistic that many developers don't bother anymore. they cannot make money. If the market value for the condo is $1200 PSF. the owners will ask for $1800 PSF from the developer to en bloc. but its possible that beyond $1500 PSF, his project is not feasible. try telling the owners to come down to $1500 PSF. Good luck.

 

[ginfreely]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

enbloc now very rare. U barely hear about them anymore. the problem with en blocs is that many times, its driven by the property agents. they will entice the owners with so many outlandish claims about how much they can get them from a developer. Its not really realistic. i can tell you its better for a developer to quietly buy as many units in the target building as possible. using proxy companies or other such entities so as not to tip off the rest of the owners. If they can buy up 10% or even 20% of all the units, they already have a big head start if they try to en bloc it. The problem is the asking price is so high and unrealistic that many developers don't bother anymore. they cannot make money. If the market value for the condo is $1200 PSF. the owners will ask for $1800 PSF from the developer to en bloc. but its possible that beyond $1500 PSF, his project is not feasible. try telling the owners to come down to $1500 PSF. Good luck.

Oic never mind wait two decades and see how. When the apartment is very old, the owners will all want to enbloc at a reasonable price.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

Oic never mind wait two decades and see how. When the apartment is very old, the owners will all want to enbloc at a reasonable price.

When the apartment buildings start getting old, they will have a lot of replacement capital expenses. eg. roof, lifts, etc. Also a lot maintenance issues resulting in higher and higher conservancy fees and contingent funding. A proactive MCST might even start polling the owners to see if there is any interest in en bloc. If there is enough interest, they can approach several developers to offer their building for en bloc. rather then wait for the developers to come sniffing around. that way, owners can cash out before being stuck with a lot of bills and a depreciating asset down the road. P.S. if you know any such building, message me. No, seriously.

 

[ginfreely]

Re: Lawrence Wong: Leasehold HDB Good Store of Asset Value! Easy To Monetize When Old

When the apartment buildings start getting old, they will have a lot of replacement capital expenses. eg. roof, lifts, etc. Also a lot maintenance issues resulting in higher and higher conservancy fees and contingent funding. A proactive MCST might even start polling the owners to see if there is any interest in en bloc. If there is enough interest, they can approach several developers to offer their building for en bloc. rather then wait for the developers to come sniffing around. that way, owners can cash out before being stuck with a lot of bills and a depreciating asset down the road. P.S. if you know any such building, message me. No, seriously.

Seriously my condo is two decades old but i think it looks like new. Especially my unit that i take tender loving care and even replaced with all new aircon.