Chitchat Koreans & Japanese Engineering and Pride

[scroobal]

Sincere apologies, I thought you were referring to your sister site. Was not aware of the sister site's origins.

"Aggregated" implies that content is taken from other sources and merely reproduced.

This forum here is a mixture of aggregated news and original content such as papsmearer's and yours.

The sex forum started off with 100% original content written by yours truly.

 

[scroobal]

Look at US which is a melting pot and the results they achieved.

It's a bit of an unfair comparison, considering Singapore is a melting pot of different cultures while the countries mentioned are homogenous in nature. Homogenous nations tend to be more advanced in most fields because they already possess cohesion among its citizens, while Singapore is just forcefully melded together and cohesion is still an issue at times

 

[scroobal]

i know of a retired SIA exec nearing 70 years of age. He goes haywire when you mention productivity in Singapore. He lives abroad and gets really upset when he sees the numbers of workers, lack of tools and automation and the presence of a supervisor standing around to complete simple tasks. He told me that SIA implemented a remuneration model that broke down some of the salary components to allowances. If you can't do a particular task, you would lose the allowance. He said cabin crew was paid also by the number of flights they did.

For 40 years I have been hearing the productivity song, the upgrading song, the whatever till you get tired & weary & wonder, what has it brought you? more Foreigners....the same old thing that you have to be productive or you will..... mind you this started in 1976, when the British pulled out of the Suez Canal... back then with the 'copy me' Japanese QC' circles & Japanese way of work, Taiwanese Methods of.....what progress had it brought us?

The same old shits.....with the same old government, devoid of any new, innovative ideas os their own..other than copy others...& fail terribly in copying too...

We need a drastic change....for the better...

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Singkieland will never be an innovative place or have it's own talent in innovative and R&D etc bcos the pap is determine to have political control at all costs. Tat is why the Foreigners can come in here n get jobs easily. These foreign trash Will always support pap. Home grown talent can easily revolt against the pap. Look at the better quality candidates in the opposition? If more locals were like tat...pap will be screwed . In those countries mention by the TS... they are all democracies n the govt does not dominate society like y the way the pap does in singkieland.

 

[frenchbriefs]

Singapore is a small country. It cannot be everything to everyone.

If you look at the USA you'll find that different cities have have evolved with different strengths for a variety of reasons. NYC's strengths are financial because of it's pedigree.

The Bay Area is the technology hot bed again because of its roots.

If NYC wanted to transform itself to compete with the West Coast it would be a long and painful transition which probably would fail.

Considering the fact the Singapore is only 50 years old it has done a remarkable job of reinventing itself from trading to manufacturing to services all within 4 and a bit decades. Credit has to be given to the government as these changes would never have evolved naturally.

Ultimately the people of Singapore have to decide, in collaboration with the government, what they are good at compared to the competition. It will take time but it will happen.

whats so special about our economy?we are just a rental economy thats all,rent out office space,retail space,industrial office space,residential space etc etc.we invite hundreds of mncs to camp in our tax haven money laundering hub and import 1.4 million fts,and then build tons and tons of office buildings,condos,shopping malls,hdbs and industrial buildings and rent them out......when i look at the sg stock market and all the stocks in my sg stock portfolio practically 80 percent are reits or related to real estate.the sg reit market outweighs the non reit companies by far,when i look at the top biggest and wealthiest sg stock market investors blogs,majority of what they own are reits and a handful of other sg companies that are overall insignificant makeup of their portfolios.....our entire economy is one big real estate ponzi.......once my portfolio reach a sizeable amount like 100k or so,im going to start actively diversifying into US markets.sg reits have juicy returns but with the economy slowing down and passing rents in the market showing signs of stress and occupancy rates falling and upcoming oversupply in the pipeline.....things arent looking very good for sg.

 

[Leongsam]

whats so special about our economy?we are just a rental economy thats all,rent out office space,retail space,industrial office space,residential space etc etc.we invite hundreds of mncs to camp in our tax haven money laundering hub and import 1.4 million fts,and then build tons and tons of office buildings,condos,shopping malls,hdbs and industrial buildings and rent them out......when i look at the sg stock market and all the stocks in my sg stock portfolio practically 80 percent are reits or related to real estate.the sg reit market outweighs the non reit companies by far,when i look at the top biggest and wealthiest sg stock market investors blogs,majority of what they own are reits and a handful of other sg companies that are overall insignificant makeup of their portfolios.....our entire economy is one big real estate ponzi.......once my portfolio reach a sizeable amount like 100k or so,im going to start actively diversifying into US markets.sg reits have juicy returns but with the economy slowing down and passing rents in the market showing signs of stress and occupancy rates falling and upcoming oversupply in the pipeline.....things arent looking very good for sg.

In order to rent stuff out there needs to be a demand. The fact that there is a demand for Office space in Singapore proves that the Singapore government is doing an excellent job.

Many other cities in the world just wish that they could get the same returns that Singapore achieves but they can't because they have not created a city that is desirable to live and work in.

 

[frenchbriefs]

In order to rent stuff out there needs to be a demand. The fact that there is a demand for Office space in Singapore proves that the Singapore government is doing an excellent job.

Many other cities in the world just wish that they could get the same returns that Singapore achieves but they can't because they have not created a city that is desirable to live and work in.

our demand relies on external economies,singapore is completely incapable of generating economic growth on our own,demand is falling rapidly....we havent seen the returns since the growth spurts from 2003 to 2007 and 2009 to 2012 when rents reached amazing levels.in fact our gdp per capital levels have actually shrunk back to pre 2012 levels.

if u want to see the true economic state of sg dont bother looking at the interest rates or unemployment rate or what not,just look at the real estate market.

 

[Narong Wongwan]

Leadership and innovation are lacking in Singapore. I would suggest that the education system largely inhibits these. An exceptional person may spring up every now and then but just looking at who helms MRT and other such Sinkie Corporations and you can see its mostly the exam smart yes men who are more capable leading soldiers rather than civilians.
If these are the best we can offer then surely we need foreign talent.

Our army's rank and file is conscription system....most soldiers are there against their will....
Are you sure those exam smarts yes men are capable of leading soldiers?
Hell sure I dun want to wait for a war to find out

 

[Leongsam]

our demand relies on external economies,singapore is completely incapable of generating economic growth on our own,demand is falling rapidly....we havent seen the returns since the growth spurts from 2003 to 2007 and 2009 to 2012 when rents reached amazing levels.in fact our gdp per capital levels have actually shrunk back to pre 2012 levels.

if u want to see the true economic state of sg dont bother looking at the interest rates or unemployment rate or what not,just look at the real estate market.

Singapore may not be perfect and there are ups and downs but overall it is doing much better than most other cities of the world.

Considering the fact that it started with a hodge podge assortment of chicken farmers and rubber tappers I'd say it has been a remarkable achievement.

It is easy to take pot shots from the sidelines but you have to admire the PAP for what it has done thus far. It could have ended up so much worse.

 

[Velma]

Look at US which is a melting pot and the results they achieved.

Indeed, they are the leaders of most fields for now, maybe except for Table Tennis

But America only became a superpower after the Second World War, when the other nations were wrecked while they remained relatively unharmed

Before it attained superpower status, it went through a lot of turbulence before it is where it is now.

After the independence in 1776, America fought against the British again in 1812, suffered a devastating civil war that nearly took the U out of USA and then fought with the Mexicans in their border wars. Even when they opened their borders to immigrants, there were lots of social problems, not forgetting the ongoing war between the settlers and the red Indians. The Irish came in droves and they were a source of social problem with their own enclaves and gangs. Then the Italians which need no further explanation regarding their mafia. Of course, not forgetting the blacks who toiled in America but their presence remained a source of friction and still segregated by the whites back then.

Even in the 19th and early 20th century, many homogenous European nations were ahead of America. The British had their powerful navy and numerous colonies, the French with their North African colonies, the Dutch with the East Indies. In fact, back then, America was besieged with social problems and stood out little. America was considered the sick man among the whites.

When World War II broke out, the Americans were rotundly trashed by the Germans in their first few battles in North Africa (Kasserine Pass) whereas the British managed to stall the Germans despite their lesser numbers. It was well known that the British army was far superior in tactics and plans compared to the Americans, who were still using First World War weapons and tactics. Even the American guns were considered antique to what the Germans were carrying and their planes obsolete compared to the Japanese zero fighters. It was only after America managed to poach the Germans and Japanese bright minds that kickstarted their rise to the top.

My point is that it is always the homogenous nations that will always have the upper hand as they do not suffer from social issues or a divided demography. Singapore is still ironing out the social issues, now worsened by the influx of FTs. The problem is also that our education system discourages critical thinking and we are unable to poach the talents from other nations, only the charlatans

 

[scroobal]

I think we are biting more than we can chew. I cannot remember Goh Keng Swee , Ho Sui Sen or Old Man ever talking about innovation. Jurong Industrial Estate was built to create jobs and that was the mantra. We needed to bring in foreign companies, get them to invest in factories to manufactures good that can be exported. It was always along these lines. The first I ever heard about innovation is when Philip Yeo was banging his drums about biotechnology and we can discover and lead in bioscience once we get our 1,000 post grad with PHD thru A*star door.

Then we One-North - and the innovation drumbeat was getting louder. One-North is more or less complete and it is essentially R&D him of quite am immense scale covering Rochester Park, part of Queenstown, right half of Buona Vista and Kent Ridge.

The latest is Jurong Innovation District - this one even has the word "innovation" in it. The only difference is that the focus is back to manufacturing if you read the literature.

This govt has to realise that job created must be for the locals first. Thats the purpose of creating factories, businesses etc.

 

[scroobal]

Actually no. Ford and automation began in the US before World World II. It was also the Americans that led the way in finance by creating the world first stock exchange etc in the 20th century. The reason we are not aware of the US and its achievements prior to WWII was because we were part of the British empire and a colonial entity within the empire. Our textbooks were written by the British and we learnt more about British and only saw Western Cowboy movies. When the US entered the war, they had their weapons including ships, carrier groups that they designed and built. I have no doubt that Germany and Japan had more advanced weapons because both these nations were on war footing for than 10 years prior to the war because of the expansionist policies.

It was their industrial might that they paid for WWII and subsequently for the Marshal Plan to rebuild burnt-out Europe.

I do agree homogenous societies do have some advantages but it is culture and politics that drives many as in Korea and Japan. Take Han China which is homogenous compared to Japan and Korea - its the culture that separates China from the other 2.

Indeed, they are the leaders of most fields for now, maybe except for Table Tennis

But America only became a superpower after the Second World War, when the other nations were wrecked while they remained relatively unharmed

Before it attained superpower status, it went through a lot of turbulence before it is where it is now.

After the independence in 1776, America fought against the British again in 1812, suffered a devastating civil war that nearly took the U out of USA and then fought with the Mexicans in their border wars. Even when they opened their borders to immigrants, there were lots of social problems, not forgetting the ongoing war between the settlers and the red Indians. The Irish came in droves and they were a source of social problem with their own enclaves and gangs. Then the Italians which need no further explanation regarding their mafia. Of course, not forgetting the blacks who toiled in America but their presence remained a source of friction and still segregated by the whites back then.

Even in the 19th and early 20th century, many homogenous European nations were ahead of America. The British had their powerful navy and numerous colonies, the French with their North African colonies, the Dutch with the East Indies. In fact, back then, America was besieged with social problems and stood out little. America was considered the sick man among the whites.

When World War II broke out, the Americans were rotundly trashed by the Germans in their first few battles in North Africa (Kasserine Pass) whereas the British managed to stall the Germans despite their lesser numbers. It was well known that the British army was far superior in tactics and plans compared to the Americans, who were still using First World War weapons and tactics. Even the American guns were considered antique to what the Germans were carrying and their planes obsolete compared to the Japanese zero fighters. It was only after America managed to poach the Germans and Japanese bright minds that kickstarted their rise to the top.

My point is that it is always the homogenous nations that will always have the upper hand as they do not suffer from social issues or a divided demography. Singapore is still ironing out the social issues, now worsened by the influx of FTs. The problem is also that our education system discourages critical thinking and we are unable to poach the talents from other nations, only the charlatans

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

That's not true I graduated from SU and went on to start Singapore's most successful on line sex hub which certainly didn't fit into any mould. In fact it was so far beyond the boundaries that it has been causing controversy from the day one.

The amount of venom and hatred that I have received in my in-box over the years would be enough to make any lesser mortal crumble. Luckily my idol LKY taught me to stand strong in the face of adversity so I have withstood the onslaught with my integrity intact.

In statistics you are an extreme outlier.

Good that you don't faint under pressure. Your sex hub is one of the pockets of sanity.

 

[Velma]

Actually no. Ford and automation began in the US before World World II. It was also the Americans that led the way in finance by creating the world first stock exchange etc in the 20th century. The reason we are not aware of the US and its achievements prior to WWII was because we were part of the British empire and a colonial entity within the empire. Our textbooks were written by the British and we learnt more about British and only saw Western Cowboy movies. When the US entered the war, they had their weapons including ships, carrier groups that they designed and built. I have no doubt that Germany and Japan had more advanced weapons because both these nations were on war footing for than 10 years prior to the war because of the expansionist policies.

It was their industrial might that they paid for WWII and subsequently for the Marshal Plan to rebuild burnt-out Europe.

I do agree homogenous societies do have some advantages but it is culture and politics that drives many as in Korea and Japan. Take Han China which is homogenous compared to Japan and Korea - its the culture that separates China from the other 2.

Fair enough for my lack of knowledge of America and I stand corrected.

As you said it is culture and politics that drove countries like Korea and Japan. But diverse societies like Singapore, it is hard to even have a culture. We all know the basic pointers of Japanese and Korean culture, but it will be difficult to even establish a culture for Singapore. Even among the four main races of Singapore, each has a different work ethic and perception of quality. For the Japanese and Koreans, they already have a fixed and excellent work ethic (though stifling). They have the greater freedom to innovate as identity is already established. In Singapore, we are still trying to establish though the government has already derailed it through mass importing of FTs and we are back to square one.

It is a shame frankly, Singapore has talents but they were crushed by a system that destroys thinking out of the box

 

[krafty]

looking at japan, many naive asian chinese especially the younger gen X and after, are seduced by the "kawaii" appeal of nihon jun products. behind all these kawaii products, can you really think about it, the deep minds behind their creators. nihon are very spectacular in this, no doubt about it. they deserve to win the world war 2 with their brains and brutality. also, look at their main staple, they eat raw fish, etc. sashimi, what kind of human beings eat their food raw? only animals do, so to speak that their behaviour is close to animals. it was only later, sushi start to find its way to popularity in other asian countries and we are near to their animals' tastebud.

for their electronic products, korean products are leading all over nihon currently. when electronics were expensive in the 80's and 90's, jap. was leading then. when prices for electronics fall in the new millennial, and it get cheaper and cheaper, korean then wrangle its way to lead over them. is it coincidence or another strategy crafted by the nihon, or really the korean is better, i am doubtful. for some reason, i reckon it is politically motivated. japs are very very meticulous and very highly strategic in the way they think and do tasks from my experience with them, their elites of course and i dun work with their rice farmers.

i also stand to be corrected, there may be other trending news that i have neglected.:o

 

[JohnTan]

Yesterday had dinner with a French Naval Engineer and his wife. In the course of the conversation he expressed great admiration for Korean and Japanese engineering standards and particularly the pride across all ranks in completing their job. He had been stationed in both countries and cited example of their work, the grasp of engineering principles and they ability to challenge convention. He also said that many women worked in shipyards as skilled artisans, welders and technicians. Also said that as a workforce they were much better than the Europeans. He said that the Germans, French and the British have at the moment leadership over innovation and design and this is more towards their long history of democracy, transparency and freedom of expression. And this is also driven by individuals who are prepared to push their personal boundaries.

He said that that the Japan and Korea would eventually be on par with the Europeans on innovation and design.

3 things came out very clearly in the conversation - engineering prowess, pride in their job and the women doing skilled work in shipyards. Good to hear stories such as this. I was not aware of the role of women in this area of the workforce.

So how much do the Japs and Koreans pay their engineers? More than they pay lawyers and doctors?

The real amount of respect shown to a profession is in their median income. No amount of bullshit verbal respect can compare to an actual pay package and generous bonus.

 

[scroobal]

I do agree that our current system crushes the individual and does not tie our society with the right values thus giving rise to culture likes the Koreans and Jaoanese. I remember in the 70s and 80s, we were a proud young nation and everyone was keen to enter the workforce. There was a job for everyone and we wanted to contribute to the success of Singapore. Not anymore.

Now we are fighting to hold on to our jobs. What a shame.

Fair enough for my lack of knowledge of America and I stand corrected.

As you said it is culture and politics that drove countries like Korea and Japan. But diverse societies like Singapore, it is hard to even have a culture. We all know the basic pointers of Japanese and Korean culture, but it will be difficult to even establish a culture for Singapore. Even among the four main races of Singapore, each has a different work ethic and perception of quality. For the Japanese and Koreans, they already have a fixed and excellent work ethic (though stifling). They have the greater freedom to innovate as identity is already established. In Singapore, we are still trying to establish though the government has already derailed it through mass importing of FTs and we are back to square one.

It is a shame frankly, Singapore has talents but they were crushed by a system that destroys thinking out of the box

 

[halsey02]

I do agree that our current system crushes the individual and does not tie our society with the right values thus giving rise to culture likes the Koreans and Jaoanese. I remember in the 70s and 80s, we were a proud young nation and everyone was keen to enter the workforce. There was a job for everyone and we wanted to contribute to the success of Singapore. Not anymore.

Now we are fighting to hold on to our jobs. What a shame.

I remember being 'preached' if we must not ask for too much salary, bonuses etc..be productive, or else the companies will shift to places like Batam...etc....but then they open the doors for foreigners to come in & depress the local wages...& employers got spoilt by the free flow cheap labours & started to condemn the educated , trained local staff, which once was one of the best in Asia....labelling them as demanding, costly & unproductive....

We could not fight for our jobs anymore...the government is helping 3rd world countries...many gave up the fight & stop looking for work...how can we fight?....as workers that is.....these foreigners, are paid 1/4 of what we need to SURVIVE HERE, PAY FOR AN EXPENSIVE GOVERNMENT IN TAXES...(DIRECT & INDIRECT), they can work more than the approved hours, ( for they do not have families here), & demand less..

Back in the 70's & 80's....we were proud to be SINGAPORE WORKERS....the place I work in, became the training center for our subsidiaries in Thailand, Indonesia, Brunei, Malaysia, Papua New Guinea, West Timor & the Pacific Islands..Fiji, New Caledonia..Micronesia etc...& even Korea & Japan...HK etc... then came the 90's....we were systematically replaced by workers, from Malaysia, Philippines, India, HK, Bangladesh & now, every emerging countries on this planet...Now in 2016, the company I had left, that once train the workers of the countries I had mentioned....had shifted the training centre to be based in MALAYSIA & set up, sub-training center in Thailand & last heard in Yangoon...even Dhaka...

What have we? UNIONS to fight for the Singapore workers???are we proud to be Singapore workers anymore....or workers working for the PAP..not SINGAPORE...

 

[currypuff]

I also cannot recall offhand any outstanding achievements from NUS/NTU graduates. They fit the mould of a cookie-cutter society and that's what we have evolved into. The only arena where a few Singaporeans have shown creativity is the arts scene, but it gets rapidly quashed by government funding issues and artists gets compromised.

Singapore resembles more a transit hub rather than a place where good ideas can get seeded and grow.

The more creative arts scene is dominated by LGBT who are also closet 'creative' drug users. How are we going to be innovative when during our foundation education period, we passed our O' Level by memorising and spotting questions and answers from 10 YEAR series?

 

[Dark Knight]

After all these years when we take a closer look at our little red dot, innovation .... be it in engineering, R&D, invention etc is really a joke.
From the start, our education system has always been pegged to the economic direction which the gahbrament think and wanted it to be steered towards. On one hand they wanted Sillypore to be the hub of everything but on the other hand never failed to intervene in any industry that makes $$$ for them. Hence you don't see much start up companies that can really make it locally all be it going global with their business ideas, products and innovation. Which ever playing field that is lucrative in making and milking $$$, the gahbrament will lay their hands on them and that's where the local firms begin to realize their greatest competitor is non other than all those GLCs which have all the funding to sustain their business in the long run. Even GLCs themselves are no better in terms of innovation in engineering and scientific research. Just take a look at our ST Marine, ST Kinetics etc. Do you really trust all those machines that they so called designed and made themselves when using them in real war time? I can bet you that all those machines can't really take much punishment and will easily failed when comes to war.
So .... what have those engineers, scholars in DSTA really came out with after all these years? They have wasted most of the defense budget in trying to develop all kinds of useless toys which is a copy of others design and ended up you don't even get to hear any good reviews about them.
So long there's GLCs competing with the local firms, we won't get to see much innovation at all. We ended up learning the know how instead of know why.