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Kelvin Seet's Letter on HDB prices

dysentry

Alfrescian
Loyal
***********************

Note for readers:
1 Reproduced below is the full text of my letter to TODAY Voices section --- which was rejected(read: censored) for publication for the obvious reason that I had exposed "The HDB Flat Pricing Scam" (which not many S'poreans are aware of).

2 Key Issue --- The HDB (under $2m Minister Mah Bow Tan) had used the clever term "market subsidy" to confuse buyers of HDB new flats into thinking their flats are "heavily subsidized" (Mah's own words) by the PAP Govt.
In fact, there is no "cash subsidy" at all and the HDB is actually raking in a cleverly-disguised profit !

3 For greater public awareness, please help to forward to as many people as possible and ask them to do likewise (for "the multiplier effect").
More informed voters can then vote appropriately at the next 2011 General Elections to send a strong message to the PAP Govt to provide truly-affordable housing for the people.



Original Text of my email letter to TODAY newspaper:

In his letter "Resale flats out of reach" (TODAY Jan 17), Mr Anthony Tan highlighted the problems faced by many first-time HDB flat-buyers. Allow me to trace the root cause behind their dilemma.

As a 60-year old educated Senior Citizen, I surf the Internet regularly to gauge the true concerns of young Singaporeans, who are mostly hesitant to speak up openly.

I empathise with their growing despair on home ownership. Many are resigned that private flats are now way beyond their reach. All they simply want is a basic no-frills inexpensive flat --- with enough money left to decorate it to their own personal taste into a cosy home!

However, even with HDB flats, they are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea --- either wait 4 years for "expensive" new flats or else pay "sky-high" prices for resale flats. They are rightly concerned that a $1 million HDB resale flat may not be that far-fetched.

One worry is that, despite such high prices, few buyers will feel the pinch immediately because up to 90% of the cost can be financed by long-term home loans stretching up to 30 years.

So many seldom give a second thought that if they borrow, say, $300,000 under a 30-year loan, they could ultimately cough up nearly $600,000 in total capital and interest repayments.

Another worry: If a young couple have to sink so much of their hard-earned income and CPF savings into their brick-and-cement flat, how much monies will there be left to raise a family and sent their children to university --- not to mention providing for their own healthcare and retirement needs in their golden years?


In the 1970s, the starting graduate salary was $1000 per month. Then, in the HDB Marine Parade Estate, prices of new 5-rm, 4-rm and 3-rm flats were $35,000, $20,000 and $17,000 respectively. In 1990, average price of new 5-rm flats was $70,000. Such prices then reflected a "cost-based pricing approach".

Now, starting graduate salary is 3 times higher at $3,000 per month but prices of similar HDB new flats have gone up by 10 times to 30 times. The massive price hikes were largely the result of the HDB switching over to a "market-based pricing approach".


Since 2002, many have queried the HDB in newspaper forums on how its new flats are actually priced. Last December, the HDB finally confirmed that "the prices of new HDB flats are based on the market prices of resale HDB flats, and not their costs of construction."

This is a simple-to-understand example using data from 2000, when 5-rm new flats were priced upwards of $200,000.

However, from actual tendered contracts of HDB Building Contractors, the Construction Cost per flat was about $50,000. Adding on an estimated $70,000 for Land Cost & Other Related Costs, the Total Breakeven Cost per flat was about $120,000 --- which HDB should set as the selling price, since it is supposed to be a not-for-profit, low-cost public housing developer.

But, under the market-based pricing approach, HDB will first look at the then prevailing market price of, say $260,000 of a 5-rm resale flat. It will then pick a lower figure of, say $200,000 as the selling price for the 5-rm new flat --- never mind if its actual Total Breakeven Cost was only $120,000.

The HDB can then say the new flat buyer is getting a "market subsidy" of $60,000 arising from the difference between the resale flat price and new flat price. Notice, under such an approach, there is absolutely no "cash subsidy" granted at all to the new flat buyer. Instead, the HDB is actually collecting a profit of $80,000 per flat (representing a 67% profit margin). In contrast, private developers normally earn around 20% profit margin for assuming business risks.

Most importantly, this HDB market-based pricing approach had resulted in new flat prices and resale flat prices chasing each other in an upward spiral ---- that is financially disadvantageous to buyers of both new and resale flats.

Should HDB deem the above example as simplistic or misleading, the onus lies with it to rebut and substantiate with its own detailed data.

HDB should also provide its public response to this remaining burning question --- Why is the HDB not really helping first-time buyers of new flats by passing on to them the substantial cost-savings from economies-of-scale in massive HDB developments through pricing new flats on a "cost-based break-even" approach?


We have also since moved from small "pigeon-holes" to tiny "bee-hives" --- extremely costly beehives, to be precise! HDB new flats are now built smaller, closer and at higher price.

The HDB itself had stopped building the larger 1200 sq ft 5-room and 1400 sq ft Executive flats. Current prices of 1000 sq ft 4-rm HDB new flats range from $200,000 (in Senkang) to $400,000 (in Telok Blangah) and up to the whopping $590,000 (in Boon Keng, under Design, Build and Sell Scheme by private developer).

Our politicians constantly exhort Singaporeans to treat Singapore as "home" literally and figuratively. To help solve our Procreation Problem, young couples are also reminded not to delay marriage and have three or more children. Pray tell us how do you squeeze two parents, three children, one maid and possibly one or two elderly in-laws in a 1000 sq ft "bee-hive"?

When young, educated and mobile Singaporeans are short-changed on such basic "quality of life" aspirations as a truly-affordable and decent-size home for their loved ones, is it any wonder many are contemplating to be "quitters" rather than "stayers"?
__________________
www.kelvinseet.com

kelvinseet.blogspot.com
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
Actually resale prices are dictated by market forces, more by flat dwellers themselves who wants high valuation, many cash above valuation.

Honestly, which flat owner doesn't want to make money when they buy/sell HDB flat if they could?
 

congo9

Alfrescian
Loyal
Actually resale prices are dictated by market forces, more by flat dwellers themselves who wants high valuation, many cash above valuation.

Honestly, which flat owner doesn't want to make money when they buy/sell HDB flat if they could?
That does nt explain why HDB shd peg their new selling price of property to the resale price.

But in the 1st place , if HDB has price their flat to the cost of building a single flat , will the resale price of the the flat be that high ? Will there be so called cash above valuation ? Nothing of this sort will happen !
 

zhihau

Super Moderator
SuperMod
Asset
Our politicians constantly exhort Singaporeans to treat Singapore as "home" literally and figuratively. To help solve our Procreation Problem, young couples are also reminded not to delay marriage and have three or more children. Pray tell us how do you squeeze two parents, three children, one maid and possibly one or two elderly in-laws in a 1000 sq ft "bee-hive"?

When young, educated and mobile Singaporeans are short-changed on such basic "quality of life" aspirations as a truly-affordable and decent-size home for their loved ones, is it any wonder many are contemplating to be "quitters" rather than "stayers"?
kelvinseet.blogspot.com

so simple... migrate loh :p:p:p

disclaimer: i'm trying real hard to persuade my old ones to go with me too...
 
Q

Qinhuang

Guest
The private property price is going down like 30 to 40 %.

If HDB follow this nature, PAP will lose votes. So whether recession or golden period, HDB price is the same.

So, at all costs to stay in power, all bullshits must be installed to make sure Pigeon holes price rise above all even if market is at the crossroads.

PRs are let in to boost the HDB price--this is a cruel policy to corrupt the local minds of COV.

Unless you bought HDB pigeon holes at the 70's or 80's , you may make some money but you will carry the same burden if you buy resale flats once more.

Lanpar parlan.

The HDB high -price saga will continue until Lee Kuan Yew passes away.
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
That does nt explain why HDB shd peg their new selling price of property to the resale price.

But in the 1st place , if HDB has price their flat to the cost of building a single flat , will the resale price of the the flat be that high ? Will there be so called cash above valuation ? Nothing of this sort will happen !

Let's say HDB do not peg their price to resale market,

I forsee demand for HDB resale to drop. When demand for HDB resale drops, price will also drop. When price drop, buy HDB direct flats will also drop, since it must be much lower than HDB resale.

What happens next will be flat dwellers all start to cry why their homes got no price and no value and they are making losses. Already like what you all said its 99 year pigeon lease and yet now its losing more money.

If HDB from lease becomes each and every owner will have their own title deed. Wha, everyone will be so happy, but another set of problems will happen. Who will want to buy private property when there is simply no difference now between a HDB and a condo when both you get to have your own deeds
 
Q

Qinhuang

Guest
HDB flats like one N-korea border city is a propaganda city.

Govt housing supposes to be affordable.

But PAP becos of greed and power, has politicised the HDB housing.

HDB price down, the lee family is dethroned.

So at all costs, the HDB saga will go on until when it reaches it limits, the system implodes----Ah Mah runs road.



Let's say HDB do not peg their price to resale market,

I forsee demand for HDB resale to drop. When demand for HDB resale drops, price will also drop. When price drop, buy HDB direct flats will also drop, since it must be much lower than HDB resale.

What happens next will be flat dwellers all start to cry why their homes got no price and no value and they are making losses. Already like what you all said its 99 year pigeon lease and yet now its losing more money.

If HDB from lease becomes each and every owner will have their own title deed. Wha, everyone will be so happy, but another set of problems will happen. Who will want to buy private property when there is simply no difference now between a HDB and a condo when both you get to have your own deeds
 

zhihau

Super Moderator
SuperMod
Asset
I forsee demand for HDB resale to drop. When demand for HDB resale drops, price will also drop. When price drop, buy HDB direct flats will also drop, since it must be much lower than HDB resale.

this is where i beg to differ, the price of a brand new HDB pigeon could be fixed at its construction costs, plus a few percentage points for small profit if you may; and it need not bother about the prices of the resale flat and need not be fixed below the market resale value.

if the prices of the resale flat goes lower than that of a brand new HDB pigeon hole, that's merely a true reflection of the market being observed. afraid that the truth hurts? :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
 

0939

Alfrescian
Loyal
It is also got to do with HDB raising their price particularly in 1985 where mass constructions of flats. Those were the time the flats were still affordable as many have
amassed their CPF during those periods where CPF 25-25% contributions.
The price of the HDB flats now are closed to private properties. Young couples with high hopes of owning such flats have to start from the beginning to build up their CPF funds.
How are they going to buy let alone paying the first instalment, unless their parents are rich enough to pay for the. With the CPF capped at $4000 ceiling, a total of 35% of the contributions, much of it to special accounts and a total combined income of max $8000. They are not getting anywhere but with a 30-year loan. Will they have enough minmum sum for retirements.
I am now monitoring the progress of my 20-year old daughter started her career earning an average of $3000 as a sales exec. In 5 years time, how much will her CPF in ordinary account and also monitoring the prices of HDB flats. Looks like she gonna needs the help of the parent unless she married a rich man.
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
this is where i beg to differ, the price of a brand new HDB pigeon could be fixed at its construction costs, plus a few percentage points for small profit if you may; and it need not bother about the prices of the resale flat and need not be fixed below the market resale value.

if the prices of the resale flat goes lower than that of a brand new HDB pigeon hole, that's merely a true reflection of the market being observed. afraid that the truth hurts? :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Actually I am not saying you are wrong, what i am saying is, most of the prices are driven by greed from flat dwellers where they want to sell their resale flats at high price.

Direct entry prices and resale flats can have a huge gap, however demand for resale will then drop.
 

zhihau

Super Moderator
SuperMod
Asset
It is also got to do with HDB raising their price particularly in 1985 where mass constructions of flats. Those were the time the flats were still affordable as many have
amassed their CPF during those periods where CPF 25-25% contributions.
The price of the HDB flats now are closed to private properties. Young couples with high hopes of owning such flats have to start from the beginning to build up their CPF funds.
How are they going to buy let alone paying the first instalment, unless their parents are rich enough to pay for the. With the CPF capped at $4000 ceiling, a total of 35% of the contributions, much of it to special accounts and a total combined income of max $8000. They are not getting anywhere but with a 30-year loan. Will they have enough minmum sum for retirements.
I am now monitoring the progress of my 20-year old daughter started her career earning an average of $3000 as a sales exec. In 5 years time, how much will her CPF in ordinary account and also monitoring the prices of HDB flats. Looks like she gonna needs the help of the parent unless she married a rich man.

3K as a sales exec?!?!?!

i feel so short-changed :(:(:(
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
I am now monitoring the progress of my 20-year old daughter started her career earning an average of $3000 as a sales exec. In 5 years time, how much will her CPF in ordinary account and also monitoring the prices of HDB flats. Looks like she gonna needs the help of the parent unless she married a rich man.

That will solely depend on how much she can save. The CPF will probably be for her monthly instalments. And if her spouse is making 3K a month, total they will have 6K month. For a 4 room flat direct entry from HDB, they should not have a big problem. She doesn't even need to hook a rich fish. :p
 

SIFU

Alfrescian
Loyal
Let's say HDB do not peg their price to resale market,

I forsee demand for HDB resale to drop. When demand for HDB resale drops, price will also drop. When price drop, buy HDB direct flats will also drop, since it must be much lower than HDB resale.

What happens next will be flat dwellers all start to cry why their homes got no price and no value and they are making losses. Already like what you all said its 99 year pigeon lease and yet now its losing more money.

If HDB from lease becomes each and every owner will have their own title deed. Wha, everyone will be so happy, but another set of problems will happen. Who will want to buy private property when there is simply no difference now between a HDB and a condo when both you get to have your own deeds

so u mean u want a car salesman to sell a 40k car to you at 70k, so that in future u can sell that car for a higher price??:confused:
 

congo9

Alfrescian
Loyal
Let's say HDB do not peg their price to resale market,

I forsee demand for HDB resale to drop. When demand for HDB resale drops, price will also drop. When price drop, buy HDB direct flats will also drop, since it must be much lower than HDB resale.

What happens next will be flat dwellers all start to cry why their homes got no price and no value and they are making losses. Already like what you all said its 99 year pigeon lease and yet now its losing more money.

If HDB from lease becomes each and every owner will have their own title deed. Wha, everyone will be so happy, but another set of problems will happen. Who will want to buy private property when there is simply no difference now between a HDB and a condo when both you get to have your own deeds
The HDB has went down on this slippery road because of GREED ! There is no way of turning back now.

But when your newly build HDB is on the lease for 99 yrs only , it shd not be a few hundred K for a pigeon hole. It too bloody expensive. That is blantant profiteering in the name of providing affordable to the mass !

This hike in prices indirectly has made Singapore too expensive for MNC to come in and operate. Simply because, the new flat owner need to have a lot more money to pay off the debt they incurr. That why Singaprean cant work for S$800 per month job for a married man. That why u see so many PRC and Mymmar people coming in to take all these jobs. It simply not viable to work ..........
 

zhihau

Super Moderator
SuperMod
Asset
Actually I am not saying you are wrong, what i am saying is, most of the prices are driven by greed from flat dwellers where they want to sell their resale flats at high price.

Direct entry prices and resale flats can have a huge gap, however demand for resale will then drop.

if you noticed back in the mid-90s, the prices of the HDB for resale flat have been pushed up by speculation. the influx of the HongKongers prior to 97 did have some impact. sadly to say, despite of the financial crisis back in the late 90s, couldn't do much to the greed that has been sown, hence the implementation of the 5-year mandatory occupancy ruling prior to any resale.

greed is one thing, demand/supply dynamics is another. HDB was the pioneering arm of the Government to provide CHEAP and AFFORDABLE housing for the nation. so who cares about the resale value of the flats? let it rise and fall accordingly to the demand/supply dynamics. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
 

0939

Alfrescian
Loyal
That will solely depend on how much she can save. The CPF will probably be for her monthly instalments. And if her spouse is making 3K a month, total they will have 6K month. For a 4 room flat direct entry from HDB, they should not have a big problem. She doesn't even need to hook a rich fish. :p

She has high hope. That is the problem with the young generation. They
want to be better than their parents. Because I stayed in a condo. Buying a 3 or 4 rooms isn't the problem. At least a condo HDB type. Thats where our Gahmen knows their weaknesses.
 
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