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Islamic scholar says ‘if the Quran says that the Earth is flat, then it has to be flat’

Loofydralb

Alfrescian
Loyal
Most of his assertions are conditional. Plus he is not a natural Arabic speaker, a very complex language, full of nuances, layered meanings, hints of the opposite.
He should be discussing it with other scholars, not the public as we would be out of depth in it, and then present their consensus or differences.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
This article is more than 2 years old.
Hypertorus model of the Universe.

In a hypertorus model of the Universe, motion in a straight line will return you to your original ... [+]
ESO and deviantART user InTheStarlightGarden
What is the shape of the Universe? If you had come along before the 1800s, it likely never would have occurred to you that the Universe itself could even have a shape. Like everyone else, you would have learned geometry starting from the rules of Euclid, where space is nothing more than a three-dimensional grid. Then you would have applied Newton’s laws of physics and presumed that things like forces between any two objects would act along the one and only straight line connecting that. But we’ve come a long way in our understanding since then, and not only can space itself be curved by the presence of matter and energy, but we can witness those effects. Yet somehow, when it comes to the Universe as a whole, space itself appears indistinguishable from perfectly flat. Why is this? That’s what Stan Echols wants to know, writing in to ask:


“Why is the universe relatively flat instead of being shaped like a sphere? Doesn’t the universe also expand perpendicularly to the relatively flat surface?”

Let’s start off with the old definition of space, which is probably what most of us picture: some sort of three-dimensional grid.

We often visualize space as a 3D grid, but this isn't necessarily true.

We often visualize space as a 3D grid, even though this is a frame-dependent oversimplification when ... [+]
ReunMedia / Storyblocks

In Euclidean geometry, which is the geometry that most of us learn, there are five postulates that allow us to derive everything we know of from them.


  1. Any two points can be connected by a straight line segment.
  2. Any line segment can be extended infinitely far in a straight line.
  3. Any straight line segment can be used to construct a circle, where one end of the line segment is the center and the other end sweeps radially around.
  4. All right angles are equal to one another, and contain 90° (or π/2 radians).
  5. And that any two lines that are parallel to each other will never intersect.

Everything you’ve ever drawn on a piece of graph paper obeys these rules, and the thought was that our Universe just obeys a three-dimensional version of the Euclidean geometry we’re all familiar with.
MORE FOR YOU

New Warning Issued For Google’s 1.8 Billion Gmail Users​


New iPhone 15 Leaks Reveal Stunning Apple Design Decisions​


Ukrainian Separatists Built Crude Rockets—And Deployed Them Opposite The Entire Ukrainian Marine Corps​


But this isn’t necessarily so, and it’s the fifth postulate’s fault. To understand why, just look at the lines of longitude on a globe.
Diagram of Earth's International Date Line (IDL), opposite Prime (Greenwich) meridian.

This diagram of a globe is centered on Earth's International Date Line (IDL), and also shows lines ... [+]
De Agostini via Getty Images

Every line of longitude you can draw makes a complete circle around the Earth, crossing the equator and making a 90° angle wherever it does. Since the equator is a straight line, and all the lines of longitude are straight lines, this tells us that — at least at the equator — the lines of longitude are parallel. If Euclid’s fifth postulate were true, then any two lines of longitude could never intersect.
But lines of longitude do intersect. In fact, every line of longitude intersects at two points: the north and south poles.
The reason is the same reason that you can’t “peel” a sphere and lay it out flat to make a square: the surface of a sphere is fundamentally curved and not flat. In fact, there are three types of fundamentally different spatial surfaces. There are surfaces of positive curvature, like a sphere; there are surfaces of negative curvature, like a horse’s saddle; there are surfaces of zero curvature, like a flat sheet of paper. If you want to know what the curvature of your surface is, all you have to do is draw a triangle on it — and the curvature will be easier to measure the larger your triangle is — and then measure the three angles of that triangle and add them together.
The angles of a triangle add up to different amounts depending on their spatial curvature.

The angles of a triangle add up to different amounts depending on the spatial curvature present. A ... [+]
NASA / WMAP science team
Most of us are familiar with what happens if we draw a triangle on a flat, uncurved sheet of paper: the three interior angles of that triangle will always add up to 180°. But if you instead had a surface of positive curvature, like a sphere, your angles will add up to a greater number than 180°, with larger triangles (compared to the sphere’s radius) exceeding that 180° number by greater amounts. And similarly, if you had a surface of negative curvature, like a saddle or a hyperboloid, the interior angles will always add up to less than 180°, with larger triangles falling farther and farther short of the mark.
This realization — that you can have a fundamentally curved surface that doesn’t obey Euclid’s fifth postulate, where parallel lines can either intersect or diverge — led to the now-almost 200 year old field of non-Euclidean geometry. Mathematically, self-consistent non-Euclidean geometries were demonstrated to exist independently, in 1823, by Nicolai Lobachevsky and Janos Bolyai. They were further developed by Bernhard Riemman, who extended these geometries to an arbitrary number of dimensions and wrote down what we know of as a “metric tensor” today, where the various parameters described how any particular geometry was curved.
In the early 20th century, Albert Einstein used Riemann’s metric tensor to develop General Relativity: a four-dimensional theory of spacetime and gravitation.
An illustration of gravitational lensing with background light bent by foreground masses.

An illustration of gravitational lensing showcases how background galaxies — or any light path — is ... [+]
NASA/ESA
In straightforward terms, Einstein realized that thinking of space and time in absolute terms — where they didn’t change under any circumstances — didn’t make any sense. In special relativity, if you traveled at speeds close to the speed of light, space would contract along your direction of motion, and time would dilate, with clocks running slower for two observers moving at different relative speeds. There are rules for how space and time transform in an observer-dependent fashion, and that was just in special relativity: for a Universe where gravitation didn’t exist.
But our Universe does have gravity. In particular, the presence of not only mass, but all forms of energy, will cause the fabric of spacetime to curve in a particular fashion. It took Einstein a full decade, from 1905 (when special relativity was published) until 1915 (when General Relativity, which includes gravity, was put forth in its final, correct form), to figure out how to incorporate gravity into relativity, relying largely on Riemann’s earlier work. The result, our theory of General Relativity, has passed every experimental test to date.
What’s remarkable about it is this: when we apply the field equations of General Relativity to our Universe — our matter-and-energy filled, expanding, isotropic (the same average density in all directions) and homogeneous (the same average density in all location) Universe — we find that there’s an intricate relationship between three things:

  • the total amount of all types of matter-and-energy in the Universe, combined,
  • the rate at which the Universe is expanding overall, on the largest cosmic scales,
  • and the curvature of the (observable) Universe.

Dr. Ethan Siegel, with one formulation of the first Friedmann equation.

A photo of me at the American Astronomical Society's hyperwall in 2017, along with the first ... [+]
Perimeter Institute / Harley Thronson
The Universe, in the earliest moments of the hot Big Bang, was extremely hot, extremely dense, and also expanding extremely rapidly. Because, in General Relativity, the way the fabric of spacetime itself evolves is so thoroughly dependent on the matter and energy within it, there are really only three possibilities for how a Universe like this can evolve over time.

  1. If the expansion rate is too low for the amount of matter-and-energy within your Universe, the combined gravitational effects of the matter-and-energy will slow the expansion rate, cause it to come to a standstill, and then cause it to reverse directions, leading to a contraction. In short order, the Universe will recollapse in a Big Crunch.
  2. If the expansion rate is too high for the amount of matter-and-energy within your Universe, gravitation not only won’t be able to stop and reverse the expansion, it might not even be able to slow it down substantially. The danger of the Universe experiencing runaway expansion is very great, frequently rendering the formation of galaxies, stars, or even atoms impossible.
  3. But if they balance just right — the expansion rate and the total matter-and-energy density — you can wind up with a Universe that both expands forever and forms lots of rich, complex structure.

This last option describes our Universe, where everything is well-balanced, but it requires a total matter-and-energy density that matches the expansion rate exquisitely from very early times.
A closed (bottom), open (top) or critical (middle) Universe.

The intricate balance between the expansion rate and the total density in the Universe is so ... [+]
Ned Wright’s Cosmology tutorial
The fact that our Universe exists with the properties we observe tells us that, very early on, the Universe had to be at least very close to flat. A Universe with too much matter-and-energy for its expansion rate will have positive curvature, while one with too little will have negative curvature. Only the perfectly balanced case will be flat.
But it is possible that the Universe could be curved on extremely large scales: perhaps even larger than the part of the Universe we can observe. You might think about drawing a triangle between our own location and two distant galaxies, adding up the interior angles, but the only way we could do that would involve traveling to those distant galaxies, which we cannot yet do. We’re presently limited, technologically, to our own tiny corner of the Universe. Just like you can’t really get a good measurement of the curvature of the Earth by confining yourself to your own backyard, we can’t make a big enough triangle when we’re restricted to our own Solar System.
Thankfully, there are two major observational tests we can perform that do reveal the curvature of the Universe, and both of them point to the same conclusion.
The angular size of fluctuations that appear in the CMB reveals the Universe's curvature.

The appearance of different angular sizes of fluctuations in the CMB results in different spatial ... [+]
Smoot group at Lawrence Berkeley Labs
1.) The angular size of the temperature fluctuations that appear in the Cosmic Microwave Background. Our Universe was very uniform in the early stages of the hot Big Bang, but not perfectly uniform. There were tiny imperfections: regions that were slightly more or less dense than average. There’s a combination of effects that take place between gravity, which works to preferentially attract matter and energy to the denser regions, and radiation, which pushes back against the matter. As a result, we wind up with a set of patterns of temperature fluctuations that get imprinted into the radiation that’s observable, left over from the hot Big Bang: the cosmic microwave background.
These fluctuations have a particular spectrum: hotter or colder by a certain amount on specific distance scales. In a flat Universe, those scales appear as they are, while in a curved Universe, those scales would appear larger (in a positively curved Universe) or smaller (in a negatively curved Universe). Based on the apparent sizes of the fluctuations we see, from the Planck satellite as well as other sources, we can determine that the Universe is not only flat, but it’s flat to at least a 99.6% precision.
This tells us that if the Universe is curved, the scale on which its curved is at least ~250 times larger than the part of the Universe that’s observable to us, which is already ~92 billion light-years in diameter.
Growth of structure from CMB fluctuations to early and modern galaxies.

We can look arbitrarily far back in the Universe if our telescopes allow, and the clustering of ... [+]
E.M. Huff, the SDSS-III team and the South Pole Telescope team; graphic by Zosia Rostomian
2.) The apparent angular separations between galaxies that cluster at different epochs throughout the Universe. Similarly, there’s a specific distance scale that galaxies are more likely to cluster along. If you put your finger down on any one galaxy in the Universe today, and moved a certain distance away, you can ask the question, “how likely am I to find another galaxy at this distance?” You’d find that you would be most likely to find one very nearby, and that distance would decrease in a particular way as you moved away, with one exceptional enhancement: you’d be slightly more likely to find a galaxy about 500 million light-years away than either 400 or 600 million light-years away.
That distance scale has expanded as the Universe has expanded, so that “enhancement” distance is smaller in the early Universe. However, there would be an additional effect superimposed atop it if the Universe were positively or negatively curved, as that would affect the apparent angular scale of this clustering. The fact that we see a null result, particularly if we combine it with the cosmic microwave background results, gives us an even more stringent constraint: the Universe is flat to within ~99.75% precision.
In other words, if the Universe isn’t curved — for example, if it’s really a hypersphere (the four-dimensional analogue of a three-dimensional sphere) — that hypersphere has a radius that’s at least ~400 times larger than our observable Universe.
The quantum fluctuations that occur during inflation getting stretches across space.

The quantum fluctuations that occur during inflation do indeed get stretched across the Universe, ... [+]
E. SIEGEL / BEYOND THE GALAXY
All of that tells us how we know the Universe is flat. But to understand why it’s flat, we have to look to the theory of our cosmic origins that set up the Big Bang: cosmic inflation. Inflation took the Universe, however it may have been previously, and stretched it to enormous scales. By the time that inflation ended, it was much, much larger: so large that whatever part of it remains is indistinguishable from flat on the scales we can observe it.
The only exception to the flatness is caused by the sum of all the quantum fluctuations that can get stretched across the cosmos during inflation itself. Based on our understanding of how these fluctuations work, it leads to a novel prediction that has yet to be tested to sufficient precision: our observable Universe should actually depart from perfect flatness at a level that’s between 1-part-in-10,000 and 1-part-in-1,000,000.
How inflation and quantum fluctuations give rise to the Universe we observe today.

The quantum fluctuations that occur during inflation get stretched across the Universe, and when ... [+]
E. SIEGEL, WITH IMAGES DERIVED FROM ESA/PLANCK AND THE DOE/NASA/ NSF INTERAGENCY TASK FORCE ON CMB RESEARCH
Right now, we’ve only measured the curvature to a level of 1-part-in-400, and find that it’s indistinguishable from flat. But if we could get down to these ultra-sensitive precisions, we would have the opportunity to confirm or refute the predictions of leading theory of our cosmic origins as never before. We cannot know what it’s true shape is, but we can both measure and predict its curvature.
Although it appears indistinguishable from flat today, it may yet turn out to have a tiny but meaningful amount of non-zero curvature. A generation or two from now, depending on our scientific progress, we might finally know by exactly how much our Universe isn’t perfectly flat, after all.

Send in your Ask Ethan questions to startswithabang at gmail dot com!

Follow me on Twitter. Check out my website or some of my other work here.
 

duluxe

Alfrescian
Loyal
This article is more than 2 years old.
Hypertorus model of the Universe.

In a hypertorus model of the Universe, motion in a straight line will return you to your original ... [+]
ESO and deviantART user InTheStarlightGarden
What is the shape of the Universe? If you had come along before the 1800s, it likely never would have occurred to you that the Universe itself could even have a shape. Like everyone else, you would have learned geometry starting from the rules of Euclid, where space is nothing more than a three-dimensional grid. Then you would have applied Newton’s laws of physics and presumed that things like forces between any two objects would act along the one and only straight line connecting that. But we’ve come a long way in our understanding since then, and not only can space itself be curved by the presence of matter and energy, but we can witness those effects. Yet somehow, when it comes to the Universe as a whole, space itself appears indistinguishable from perfectly flat. Why is this? That’s what Stan Echols wants to know, writing in to ask:


“Why is the universe relatively flat instead of being shaped like a sphere? Doesn’t the universe also expand perpendicularly to the relatively flat surface?”

Let’s start off with the old definition of space, which is probably what most of us picture: some sort of three-dimensional grid.

We often visualize space as a 3D grid, but this isn't necessarily true.'t necessarily true.

We often visualize space as a 3D grid, even though this is a frame-dependent oversimplification when ... [+]
ReunMedia / Storyblocks

In Euclidean geometry, which is the geometry that most of us learn, there are five postulates that allow us to derive everything we know of from them.


  1. Any two points can be connected by a straight line segment.
  2. Any line segment can be extended infinitely far in a straight line.
  3. Any straight line segment can be used to construct a circle, where one end of the line segment is the center and the other end sweeps radially around.
  4. All right angles are equal to one another, and contain 90° (or π/2 radians).
  5. And that any two lines that are parallel to each other will never intersect.

Everything you’ve ever drawn on a piece of graph paper obeys these rules, and the thought was that our Universe just obeys a three-dimensional version of the Euclidean geometry we’re all familiar with.
MORE FOR YOU

New Warning Issued For Google’s 1.8 Billion Gmail Users

New iPhone 15 Leaks Reveal Stunning Apple Design Decisions

Ukrainian Separatists Built Crude Rockets—And Deployed Them Opposite The Entire Ukrainian Marine Corps

But this isn’t necessarily so, and it’s the fifth postulate’s fault. To understand why, just look at the lines of longitude on a globe.
Diagram of Earth's International Date Line (IDL), opposite Prime (Greenwich) meridian.'s International Date Line (IDL), opposite Prime (Greenwich) meridian.

This diagram of a globe is centered on Earth's International Date Line (IDL), and also shows lines ... [+]
De Agostini via Getty Images

Every line of longitude you can draw makes a complete circle around the Earth, crossing the equator and making a 90° angle wherever it does. Since the equator is a straight line, and all the lines of longitude are straight lines, this tells us that — at least at the equator — the lines of longitude are parallel. If Euclid’s fifth postulate were true, then any two lines of longitude could never intersect.
But lines of longitude do intersect. In fact, every line of longitude intersects at two points: the north and south poles.
The reason is the same reason that you can’t “peel” a sphere and lay it out flat to make a square: the surface of a sphere is fundamentally curved and not flat. In fact, there are three types of fundamentally different spatial surfaces. There are surfaces of positive curvature, like a sphere; there are surfaces of negative curvature, like a horse’s saddle; there are surfaces of zero curvature, like a flat sheet of paper. If you want to know what the curvature of your surface is, all you have to do is draw a triangle on it — and the curvature will be easier to measure the larger your triangle is — and then measure the three angles of that triangle and add them together.
The angles of a triangle add up to different amounts depending on their spatial curvature.

The angles of a triangle add up to different amounts depending on the spatial curvature present. A ... [+]
NASA / WMAP science team
Most of us are familiar with what happens if we draw a triangle on a flat, uncurved sheet of paper: the three interior angles of that triangle will always add up to 180°. But if you instead had a surface of positive curvature, like a sphere, your angles will add up to a greater number than 180°, with larger triangles (compared to the sphere’s radius) exceeding that 180° number by greater amounts. And similarly, if you had a surface of negative curvature, like a saddle or a hyperboloid, the interior angles will always add up to less than 180°, with larger triangles falling farther and farther short of the mark.
This realization — that you can have a fundamentally curved surface that doesn’t obey Euclid’s fifth postulate, where parallel lines can either intersect or diverge — led to the now-almost 200 year old field of non-Euclidean geometry. Mathematically, self-consistent non-Euclidean geometries were demonstrated to exist independently, in 1823, by Nicolai Lobachevsky and Janos Bolyai. They were further developed by Bernhard Riemman, who extended these geometries to an arbitrary number of dimensions and wrote down what we know of as a “metric tensor” today, where the various parameters described how any particular geometry was curved.
In the early 20th century, Albert Einstein used Riemann’s metric tensor to develop General Relativity: a four-dimensional theory of spacetime and gravitation.
An illustration of gravitational lensing with background light bent by foreground masses.

An illustration of gravitational lensing showcases how background galaxies — or any light path — is ... [+]
NASA/ESA
In straightforward terms, Einstein realized that thinking of space and time in absolute terms — where they didn’t change under any circumstances — didn’t make any sense. In special relativity, if you traveled at speeds close to the speed of light, space would contract along your direction of motion, and time would dilate, with clocks running slower for two observers moving at different relative speeds. There are rules for how space and time transform in an observer-dependent fashion, and that was just in special relativity: for a Universe where gravitation didn’t exist.
But our Universe does have gravity. In particular, the presence of not only mass, but all forms of energy, will cause the fabric of spacetime to curve in a particular fashion. It took Einstein a full decade, from 1905 (when special relativity was published) until 1915 (when General Relativity, which includes gravity, was put forth in its final, correct form), to figure out how to incorporate gravity into relativity, relying largely on Riemann’s earlier work. The result, our theory of General Relativity, has passed every experimental test to date.
What’s remarkable about it is this: when we apply the field equations of General Relativity to our Universe — our matter-and-energy filled, expanding, isotropic (the same average density in all directions) and homogeneous (the same average density in all location) Universe — we find that there’s an intricate relationship between three things:

  • the total amount of all types of matter-and-energy in the Universe, combined,
  • the rate at which the Universe is expanding overall, on the largest cosmic scales,
  • and the curvature of the (observable) Universe.

Dr. Ethan Siegel, with one formulation of the first Friedmann equation.

A photo of me at the American Astronomical Society's hyperwall in 2017, along with the first ... [+]
Perimeter Institute / Harley Thronson
The Universe, in the earliest moments of the hot Big Bang, was extremely hot, extremely dense, and also expanding extremely rapidly. Because, in General Relativity, the way the fabric of spacetime itself evolves is so thoroughly dependent on the matter and energy within it, there are really only three possibilities for how a Universe like this can evolve over time.

  1. If the expansion rate is too low for the amount of matter-and-energy within your Universe, the combined gravitational effects of the matter-and-energy will slow the expansion rate, cause it to come to a standstill, and then cause it to reverse directions, leading to a contraction. In short order, the Universe will recollapse in a Big Crunch.
  2. If the expansion rate is too high for the amount of matter-and-energy within your Universe, gravitation not only won’t be able to stop and reverse the expansion, it might not even be able to slow it down substantially. The danger of the Universe experiencing runaway expansion is very great, frequently rendering the formation of galaxies, stars, or even atoms impossible.
  3. But if they balance just right — the expansion rate and the total matter-and-energy density — you can wind up with a Universe that both expands forever and forms lots of rich, complex structure.

This last option describes our Universe, where everything is well-balanced, but it requires a total matter-and-energy density that matches the expansion rate exquisitely from very early times.
A closed (bottom), open (top) or critical (middle) Universe.

The intricate balance between the expansion rate and the total density in the Universe is so ... [+]
Ned Wright’s Cosmology tutorial
The fact that our Universe exists with the properties we observe tells us that, very early on, the Universe had to be at least very close to flat. A Universe with too much matter-and-energy for its expansion rate will have positive curvature, while one with too little will have negative curvature. Only the perfectly balanced case will be flat.
But it is possible that the Universe could be curved on extremely large scales: perhaps even larger than the part of the Universe we can observe. You might think about drawing a triangle between our own location and two distant galaxies, adding up the interior angles, but the only way we could do that would involve traveling to those distant galaxies, which we cannot yet do. We’re presently limited, technologically, to our own tiny corner of the Universe. Just like you can’t really get a good measurement of the curvature of the Earth by confining yourself to your own backyard, we can’t make a big enough triangle when we’re restricted to our own Solar System.
Thankfully, there are two major observational tests we can perform that do reveal the curvature of the Universe, and both of them point to the same conclusion.
The angular size of fluctuations that appear in the CMB reveals the Universe's curvature.'s curvature.

The appearance of different angular sizes of fluctuations in the CMB results in different spatial ... [+]
Smoot group at Lawrence Berkeley Labs
1.) The angular size of the temperature fluctuations that appear in the Cosmic Microwave Background. Our Universe was very uniform in the early stages of the hot Big Bang, but not perfectly uniform. There were tiny imperfections: regions that were slightly more or less dense than average. There’s a combination of effects that take place between gravity, which works to preferentially attract matter and energy to the denser regions, and radiation, which pushes back against the matter. As a result, we wind up with a set of patterns of temperature fluctuations that get imprinted into the radiation that’s observable, left over from the hot Big Bang: the cosmic microwave background.
These fluctuations have a particular spectrum: hotter or colder by a certain amount on specific distance scales. In a flat Universe, those scales appear as they are, while in a curved Universe, those scales would appear larger (in a positively curved Universe) or smaller (in a negatively curved Universe). Based on the apparent sizes of the fluctuations we see, from the Planck satellite as well as other sources, we can determine that the Universe is not only flat, but it’s flat to at least a 99.6% precision.
This tells us that if the Universe is curved, the scale on which its curved is at least ~250 times larger than the part of the Universe that’s observable to us, which is already ~92 billion light-years in diameter.
Growth of structure from CMB fluctuations to early and modern galaxies.

We can look arbitrarily far back in the Universe if our telescopes allow, and the clustering of ... [+]
E.M. Huff, the SDSS-III team and the South Pole Telescope team; graphic by Zosia Rostomian
2.) The apparent angular separations between galaxies that cluster at different epochs throughout the Universe. Similarly, there’s a specific distance scale that galaxies are more likely to cluster along. If you put your finger down on any one galaxy in the Universe today, and moved a certain distance away, you can ask the question, “how likely am I to find another galaxy at this distance?” You’d find that you would be most likely to find one very nearby, and that distance would decrease in a particular way as you moved away, with one exceptional enhancement: you’d be slightly more likely to find a galaxy about 500 million light-years away than either 400 or 600 million light-years away.
That distance scale has expanded as the Universe has expanded, so that “enhancement” distance is smaller in the early Universe. However, there would be an additional effect superimposed atop it if the Universe were positively or negatively curved, as that would affect the apparent angular scale of this clustering. The fact that we see a null result, particularly if we combine it with the cosmic microwave background results, gives us an even more stringent constraint: the Universe is flat to within ~99.75% precision.
In other words, if the Universe isn’t curved — for example, if it’s really a hypersphere (the four-dimensional analogue of a three-dimensional sphere) — that hypersphere has a radius that’s at least ~400 times larger than our observable Universe.
The quantum fluctuations that occur during inflation getting stretches across space.

The quantum fluctuations that occur during inflation do indeed get stretched across the Universe, ... [+]
E. SIEGEL / BEYOND THE GALAXY
All of that tells us how we know the Universe is flat. But to understand why it’s flat, we have to look to the theory of our cosmic origins that set up the Big Bang: cosmic inflation. Inflation took the Universe, however it may have been previously, and stretched it to enormous scales. By the time that inflation ended, it was much, much larger: so large that whatever part of it remains is indistinguishable from flat on the scales we can observe it.
The only exception to the flatness is caused by the sum of all the quantum fluctuations that can get stretched across the cosmos during inflation itself. Based on our understanding of how these fluctuations work, it leads to a novel prediction that has yet to be tested to sufficient precision: our observable Universe should actually depart from perfect flatness at a level that’s between 1-part-in-10,000 and 1-part-in-1,000,000.
How inflation and quantum fluctuations give rise to the Universe we observe today.

The quantum fluctuations that occur during inflation get stretched across the Universe, and when ... [+]
E. SIEGEL, WITH IMAGES DERIVED FROM ESA/PLANCK AND THE DOE/NASA/ NSF INTERAGENCY TASK FORCE ON CMB RESEARCH
Right now, we’ve only measured the curvature to a level of 1-part-in-400, and find that it’s indistinguishable from flat. But if we could get down to these ultra-sensitive precisions, we would have the opportunity to confirm or refute the predictions of leading theory of our cosmic origins as never before. We cannot know what it’s true shape is, but we can both measure and predict its curvature.
Although it appears indistinguishable from flat today, it may yet turn out to have a tiny but meaningful amount of non-zero curvature. A generation or two from now, depending on our scientific progress, we might finally know by exactly how much our Universe isn’t perfectly flat, after all.

Send in your Ask Ethan questions to startswithabang at gmail dot com!

Follow me on Twitter. Check out my website or some of my other work here.

Difficult to understand real science, thank any way.
 

duluxe

Alfrescian
Loyal
Most of his assertions are conditional. Plus he is not a natural Arabic speaker, a very complex language, full of nuances, layered meanings, hints of the opposite.
He should be discussing it with other scholars, not the public as we would be out of depth in it, and then present their consensus or differences.

How about this cleric a native arabic speaker?

Earth does not moving - Scholar of Saudi (Bandar Al-Khaybari)​

 

Loofydralb

Alfrescian
Loyal
You can't understand arabic exept some words, how do you know he never mentioned quran in the video? Or he mentioned buddhism?
He never once quoted a single verse from the Quran to bolster his claims. Something only islamophobes do.
If you doubt, ask somebody else to confirm.
 

duluxe

Alfrescian
Loyal
He never once quoted a single verse from the Quran to bolster his claims. Something only islamophobes do.
If you doubt, ask somebody else to confirm.

What is factual is they are trying to get 2 points across:

1. Do not doubt and question the quran. If the Quran says that the earth is flat, then it has to be flat.
2. Native arabic speaker video: Dandar Al-Khatbari is trying to proof the Koran is correct, the Earth is stationary and not moving around the SUN.


The scholars are pro-koran, you shouldn't be upset and saying they have not quote a verse from the Quran. The fact is, they are proving the Quran is correct.
 

Loofydralb

Alfrescian
Loyal
What is factual is they are trying to get 2 points across:

1. Do not doubt and question the quran. If the Quran says that the earth is flat, then it has to be flat.
2. Native arabic speaker video: Dandar Al-Khatbari is trying to proof the Koran is correct, the Earth is stationary and not moving around the SUN.


The scholars are pro-koran, you shouldn't be upset and saying they have not quote a verse from the Quran. The fact is, they are proving the Quran is correct.
I'm not saying they're wrong, but in the Quran there are 'mutasshabihha' verses, which are not explained by the prophet.
 

duluxe

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I'm not saying they're wrong, but in the Quran there are 'mutasshabihha' verses, which are not explained by the prophet.

The scholars are explaining and asking muslims to accept whatever the Koran says. If the quran says the earth is flat, good muslims must accept.
 

Loofydralb

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The scholars are explaining and asking muslims to accept whatever the Koran says. If the quran says the earth is flat, good muslims must accept.
Quran 3:7

"He is the One Who has revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ the Book, of which some verses are precise—they are the foundation of the Book—while others are elusive (Mutashabihât) Those with deviant hearts follow the elusive verses seeking ˹to spread˺ doubt through their ˹false˺ interpretations—but none grasps their ˹full˺ meaning except Allah. As for those well-grounded in knowledge, they say, “We believe in this ˹Quran˺—it is all from our Lord.” But none will be mindful ˹of this˺ except people of reason."
 

duluxe

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Science needs to catch up to the Quran.

As I said before, muslims don't need to attend formal school, would be nice of muuds to free up the allocations. All the taliban leaders they were educated in ONLY masadrasah schools, see how great their achievements?

How do you understand the very complex article by sam using your knowledge of koran?
 

JohnTan

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Note that these teachers do not, once, quote from the Quran. Nuff said, ain't it?

No it isn't. It is not necessary for moslem preachers to quote from the quran. islam has other scripture books like the hadiths and sunnah. Ok in islam to quote from hadiths and sunnah instead.

Plus he is not a natural Arabic speaker, a very complex language, full of nuances, layered meanings, hints of the opposite.

So allah chose a complicated language to communicate with all people. No wonder there's so many different versions of the quran , and the quran needed standardising in 1924 in Cairo.
 

Loofydralb

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As I said before, muslims don't need to attend formal school, would be nice of muuds to free up the allocations. All the taliban leaders they were educated in ONLY masadrasah schools, see how great their achievements?

How do you understand the very complex article by sam using your knowledge of koran?
Plenty of instances of science having to catch up to the Quran. I'll give you two:

Quran 23:12-14
"And indeed, We created humankind1 from an extract of clay,
then placed each ˹human˺ as a sperm-drop in a secure place,
then We developed the drop into a clinging clot ˹of blood˺, then developed the clot into a lump ˹of flesh˺, then developed the lump into bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, then We brought it into being as a new creation.1 So Blessed is Allah, the Best of Creators."

The best part is no one knew until recently:
Quran 86:6-7
"They were created from a spurting fluid,
stemming from between the backbone and the ribcage."

Muslims were the ones who lent their knowledge to lift Europe out of the dark ages. Them ungrateful lot!
 

Loofydralb

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No it isn't. It is not necessary for moslem preachers to quote from the quran. islam has other scripture books like the hadiths and sunnah. Ok in islam to quote from hadiths and sunnah instead.

Nothing supercedes the Quran. That forms the basis and foundation.
Details for what is ordained in the Quran are found in what the prophet said, did and taught as recorded in the hadiths.
As there are lying hypocrite christians, there are lying hypocrite Muslims who will fabricate hadiths.

So allah chose a complicated language to communicate with all people. No wonder there's so many different versions of the quran , and the quran needed standardising in 1924 in Cairo.
The amazing thing is that even if Allah sends it down in the most simplest language, you will persist to disbelieve.

Allah has stated Quran 2:6
"As for those who persist in disbelief, it is the same whether you warn them or not—they will never believe."

Just as Allah has reminded in the 10 Commandments, do not pray to idols, yet you persist. Is the 10 Commandments complicated language?

And finally, it's laughable to say the Quran compiled in 1924?
We have Quran way before that that is exactly the same as the ones we have today. Pathetic deflection from your corrupted bible, eh?
 
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