Is Wikileaks revealing the truth or pushing for WW III

[singveld]

usa reject their conditional surrender. The army want to fight, if they really want to surrender, they dun have to ask their enemy russia to help to negotiate her surrender. All you mention are diplomacy to buy time to dig more trench, to train more civilians with swords and spears, make more suicide plane. They believe they can win, if they kill enough amercian, they can make a deal.

atomic bombs is not un necessary. It force them to surrender, which in turn saves life on both side.

In Jan 1945 before Yalta, Japan submitted her Surrender Terms to General MacArthur. Washington rejected Japan Surrender Offer. From Yalta to Potsdam July 1945 ( 5 months ) Japan asked Sweden, the Pope and Russians for help to negotiate her Surrender with USA. The attempts all failed. Russians only told Americans about Japan willingness to surrender at Potsdam.

Japan's initial rejection of Potsdam ultimatum led directly to Truman's decision to drop atomic bombs. The Potsdam Surrender Terms was almost the same as what Japan drafted for their Surrender before Yalta. It was USA Officials big failure to negotiate a Successful Surrender Treaty for Japan from the time period before Yalta to Potsdam.

US Navy and Air Force believed Japan was effectively defeated by Air and Sea blockade from late 1944 and a Land Invasion of Japan main islands was not needed but US Army insisted on a Land Invasion. The Bloody Battle of Iwo Jima and Okinawa need not be fought.

Stalin asked for joint Soviet-US occupation of Japan at Yalta, Roosevelt flatly rejected his suggestions. Stalin grand objectives in Far East at that moment was Manchuria not Japan. There was no Soviet-US race to occupy Japan. That make dropping the atomic bombs totally unnecessary.

 

[cocobobo]

until i see something deragatory on israel on wikileaks, i'm inclined to think mossad is behind it for various gains

 

[cleareyes]

The story begins in Germany. In the 1930s, Germany and Japan had a number of scientists icing on the development of nuclear fission. In both of these countries, their leaders sternly forbade them to continue their research. Adolf Hitler said he would never allow anyone in Germany to work to work on such an inhumane weapon.

The Emperor of Japan let his scientists know that he would never approve such a weapon. At that time the United States had no one working on nuclear fission. The disgruntled German scientists contacted friends in the United States, and were told that there was a possibility of government support for their work here. As Don Beyer tells these immigrants to the United States pushed their program.

You are a idiot.

Di youi read before putting up the whole articule?

The whole writeup is anti-jewish and blame everything on the Jews. The japanese think the A-bomb is inhuman? then why is there Unit 731? The german think its inhuman? why do they have research in germ warfare? Why are Jews been used in germ and chemical testing? and those research are human whereas the A-bomb is inhuman?

Please read the whole god damn thing before put up next time.

 

[Zombie]

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html

interestingly, even the army commanders do not believe...

General Douglas MacArthur, Commander of US Army forces in the Pacific, stated on numerous occasions before his death that the atomic bomb was completely unnecessary from a military point of view: "My staff was unanimous in believing that Japan was on the point of collapse and surrender."

General Curtis LeMay, who had pioneered precision bombing of Germany and Japan (and who later headed the Strategic Air Command and served as Air Force chief of staff), put it most succinctly: "The atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war."

 

[Sideswipe]

usa reject their conditional surrender. The army want to fight, if they really want to surrender, they dun have to ask their enemy russia to help to negotiate her surrender. All you mention are diplomacy to buy time to dig more trench, to train more civilians with swords and spears, make more suicide plane. They believe they can win, if they kill enough amercian, they can make a deal.

atomic bombs is not un necessary. It force them to surrender, which in turn saves life on both side.

Japan and Russia were not Enemies but "Friends." They have a Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact that lasted throughout the War until August 9, 1945 When Russia invaded Manchuria. For good reasons, Stalin would only go into War against Japan 2 to 3 months after the End of WW2 in Europe. Soviet Agents or Sympathizers in USA Govt made sure no Peace Agreement was reached between Allies and Japan so that they can buy Russia entry into the Pacific War, Stalin can get his Yalta Concessions.

Japan planning to Surrender was not Delaying Tactics or Ruse. USA knew about that since the Start of 1945. The bloody battles of Iwa Jima and Okinawa had no relevance to Japan willingness for Peace Talks. The War hasn't ended. Japan was planning to Surrender, not in the midst of negotiations at ending the War. A Japan military victory in Okinawa could only help strengthening her position in any peace negotiations to get a better deal.

A number of important incidents from Yalta to August 1945 indicated Japan willingness to stop fighting. The appointment of Admiral Suzuki as Premier was a direct hint to USA that Japan wanted to end the War. The series of interrogations of Japanese Officials and Military Leaders immediately following the War confirmed the earlier conclusion that by Jan 1945, Japan was a defeated nation and most of their leaders were looking for a route to Peace.

Truman decision to drop the Bombs was to save more American soldiers lives as he believed a Land Invasion of Japan proper was necessary to end the War. His belief was mostly based on the advice of George Marshall. The latter deliberately or not misled Roosevelt and later Truman with his constant Overestimation of 1945 Japan Military Strength that deeply shaped Truman decision. Owen Lattimore, the Soviet agent played a part in this too.


Zombie link above is a good read.

 

[ThePlen]

what if the americans are behind wikileaks?

what if they are using this to wage war to boost their economy which has been down in the dumps?

what if?

 

[cheekenpie]

what if the americans are behind wikileaks?

what if they are using this to wage war to boost their economy which has been down in the dumps?

what if?

Are you a Marvel "what if" comics fan?

 

[ThePlen]

Are you a Marvel "what if" comics fan?

i am an adidas fan: impossible is nothing

 

[scroobal]

The new Japanese war cabinet took over in April while the bomb was dropped in August. No cabinet will ever offer surrender while their own soil is yet to be breeched. The cabinet came into being because Tojo and his lot made too many tactical errors. The Japanese are a proud and stoic race even till today. The Cabinet would be crucified by their own people if they offered surrender when their own country was yet to be overrun.

THe Germans fought all the way why would not the Japanese.

It is important that people read widely and make their decision. Even till today there are clowns who think that the moon landing is a hoax.

Then we have clowns who can't differentiate between conditional surrender and actual surrender. Conditional surrender can range from stopping the war and partitions are drawn at the point int time to the aggressor going back to his country untouched and unpunished. Conditional surrenders start to the appear all the time when the tide turns. Both the Germans and Japanese were throwing out conditional surrenders since 1943 including one where they offered to leave the pacitfic but keep SEA and HK.

This is the kind of rubbish when half educated people start to think beyond their capacity. I am just shocked that people actually thought that the Japanese offered to surrender and the only think stopping them was the lack of internet to pass the message or people who could have passed on their intentions to the world. So what were the Japanese soldiers doing in Iwo Jima and the Kakuda trail - sewing white flags? while the bomb was dropped.

 

[Coolsaint77]

The new Japanese war cabinet took over in April while the bomb was dropped in August. No cabinet will ever offer surrender while their own soil is yet to be breeched. The cabinet came into being because Tojo and his lot made too many tactical errors. The Japanese are a proud and stoic race even till today. The Cabinet would be crucified by their own people if they offered surrender when their own country was yet to be overrun.

THe Germans fought all the way why would not the Japanese.

It is important that people read widely and make their decision. Even till today there are clowns who think that the moon landing is a hoax.

Then we have clowns who can't differentiate between conditional surrender and actual surrender. Conditional surrender can range from stopping the war and partitions are drawn at the point int time to the aggressor going back to his country untouched and unpunished. Conditional surrenders start to the appear all the time when the tide turns. Both the Germans and Japanese were throwing out conditional surrenders since 1943 including one where they offered to leave the pacitfic but keep SEA and HK.

This is the kind of rubbish when half educated people start to think beyond their capacity. I am just shocked that people actually thought that the Japanese offered to surrender and the only think stopping them was the lack of internet to pass the message or people who could have passed on their intentions to the world. So what were the Japanese soldiers doing in Iwo Jima and the Kakuda trail - sewing white flags? while the bomb was dropped.

Japan was in smokes already, what do you mean their own soil is yet to be breached. You might be the most widely read gentleman in the forum, but the materials from Sideswipe and Drifters look credible enough. The 2 bombs were not necessary. US just have to find a victim to test their WMDs. US consistently demonstrates their inhumane side throughout history. We don't need to look very far away, Iraq is the best example. So is Vietnam. Agent Orange. Not a good idea calling people with differing views "half-educated people thinking beyond their capacity" or "clowns"... sounds PAP which i know you are not.

 

[Zombie]

Japan was in smokes already, what do you mean their own soil is yet to be breached.

this one is considered breaching or not?

http://aboutjapan.japansociety.org/content.cfm/tokyo_bombing_damage

On March 9-10, 1945, over 300 B-29 Bombers attacked Tokyo, focusing on Asakusa, its most densely populated section. These attacks left 80,000 to 100,000 dead and one million people homeless. Known as the Tokyo Fire Bombings, the attacks were part of the strategy of Major General Curtis LeMay to bomb civilian targets in order to demoralize the Japanese populace. (The picture dates from September 1945, and shows the view over the Sumida River in Tokyo.)

 

[Zombie]

btw,
80k-100k estimated dead in Tokyo over the 2-day bombing,
is more than
25k-50k estimated dead in Malaya/Singapore over the 3 years Japanese Occupation...

 

[eatshitndie]

july 26, 1945 - potsdam declaration was issued by u.s. president harry truman, u.k. pm winston churchill, and chairman of nationalist government of china chiang kai-shek.

read the whole potsdam declaration here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Declaration

most importantly, read the beginning and ending (words in red).

"We will not deviate from them. There are no alternatives. We shall brook no delay."

blah blah blah

"We call upon the government of Japan to proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces, and to provide proper and adequate assurances of their good faith in such action. The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction."

july 28, 1945 - jap press used the word "mokusatsu", meaning "to treat with silent contempt" regarding the declaration

july 28, 1945 - jap premier kantaro suzuki used the same word "mokusatsu" to dismiss the potsdam declaration as a rehash of earlier allied calls for surrender, and therefore, deemed by suzuki as of no value to japan, would be ignored (there's a whole historical debate on what suzuki meant by "mokusatsu"; the most credible was that suzuki's choice of the word was dictated by the need to appease the jap military, which was hostile to the idea of "unconditional surrender")

august 6, 1945 - atomic bomb dropped on hiroshima

august 9, 1945 - atomic bomb dropped on nagasaki

august 9, 1945 - soviet invasion of jap-occupied manchuria

from july 26 to august 9, there were 2 fucking weeks of time which were ample enough for japan to make up her mind to surrender or not surrender. ok, less 2 days as the declaration was required to go thru' the swiss as intermediaries. july 28 was the date the japs were aware of the declaration, yet they played the mokusatsu card.... until august 9 when the 2nd bomb fell on nagasaki and the soviets invaded manchuria. the combination of the two events was the last straw that compelled the emperor to surrender, yet the japs went thru' some internal drama and violence to finally get the emperor's voice recording on air.

if you see who signed the potsdam declaration, you will notice that stalin's absence in the signatures was huge. he was there, yet he did not sign. the japs took that to mean that they might have the blessing of the soviets to move their emperor to manchuria, if their main islands were invaded, and continue the war from the mainland. so they ignored the declaration and the dire warning that came with it. they were given enough time and enough warning. only after the soviets invaded manchuria that the emperor gave up. he wanted to save his own arse as the declaration did not cover anything on the emperor. it was checkmate, and there was no way out. in order to preserve his life, his throne and his bloodline, he would do the shameful thing of accepting unconditonal surrender than be more shameful to his ancestors and unbroken line of past emperors of becoming the first, one and only who would have destroyed the bloodline and lineage of the jap monarchy (which was the embodiment of japan itself and everything that japan stood for).

 

[eatshitndie]

btw,
80k-100k estimated dead in Tokyo over the 2-day bombing,
is more than
25k-50k estimated dead in Malaya/Singapore over the 3 years Japanese Occupation...

death toll by country attributed to jap invasions and war atrocities:

burma - 270,000
china - 20 million
dutch east indies (including indonesia) - 4 million
french indochina (including vietnam) - 1.5 million
india (mostly in service of british in asia) - 2.5 million
korea - 480,000
malaya - 100,000
new zealand - 11,000
papua new guinea - 15,000
philippines - 1 million
portuguese timor - 70,000
singapore - 50,000
thailand - 7,700
not including united states death toll in pacific war

 

[Zombie]

yet they played the mokusatsu card....

most people would look at this "mokusatsu" word as if they were trying to play cheat

but then the press statement was:
[I consider the Joint Proclamation a rehash of the Declaration at the Cairo Conference. As for the Government, it does not attach any important value to it at all. The only thing to do is just kill it with silence (mokusatsu). We will do nothing but press on to the bitter end to bring about a successful completion of the war.]

which I think, may be a totally different story..

 

[Zombie]

death toll by country attributed to jap invasions and war atrocities:

I was talking about operations with specific intentions to kill civilians eg Operation Sook Ching Vs Tokyo Fire Bombing

anyway, killing up to 100k in 2 days is just as "productive" as in the rate of killing 55 millions over 3 years

 

[drifter]

You are a idiot.

Di youi read before putting up the whole articule?

The whole writeup is anti-jewish and blame everything on the Jews. The japanese think the A-bomb is inhuman? then why is there Unit 731? The german think its inhuman? why do they have research in germ warfare? Why are Jews been used in germ and chemical testing? and those research are human whereas the A-bomb is inhuman?

Please read the whole god damn thing before put up next time.

you should called yourself cockeyes instead of cleareyes ..what is youi and articule ?

i bet you are a fucking delusion christains :oIo:

 

[drifter]

i will post the important notes again IN BIG LETTERS .since alot of ppl here cannot read :



In May of 1945, the architects of postwar strategy, or, as they liked to call themselves, the "Masters of the Universe", gathered in San Francisco at the plush Palace Hotel to write the Charter for the United Nations. Several of the principals retired for a private meeting in the exclusive Garden Room. The head of the United States delegation had called this secret meeting with his top aide, Alger Hiss, representing the president of the United States and the Soviet KGB; John Foster Dulles, of the Wall Street law firm of Sullivan and Cromwell, whose mentor, William Nelson Cromwell, had been called a "professional revolutionary" on the floor of Congress; and W. Averill Harriman, plenipotentiary extraordinary, who had spent the last two years in Moscow directing Stalin's war for survival. These four men represented the awesome power of the American Republic in world affairs, yet of the four, only Secretary of State Edward Stettinius Jr., had a position authorized by the Constitution. Stettinius called the meeting to order to discuss an urgent matter; the Japanese were already privately suing for peace, which presented a grave crisis. The atomic bomb would not be ready for several more months. "We have already lost Germany," Stettinius said. " IF JAPAN BOWS OUT , WE WILL NOT HAVE A LIVE POPULATION ON WHICH TO TEST THE BOMB ".


But, Mr. Secretary," said Alger Hiss, "no one can ignore the terrible power of this weapon." "Nevertheless," said Stettinius, " OUR ENTIRE POSTWAR PROGRAM DEPENDS ON TERRIFYING THE WORLD WITH THE ATOMIC BOMB " . " TO ACCOMPLISH THAT GOAL '' , said John Foster Dulles, " YOU WILL NEED A VERY GOOOD TELLY . I should say a million." "Yes," replied Stettinius, "we are hoping for a million tally in Japan. "BUT IF THEY SURRENDER , WE WONT HAVE ANYTHING " , "Then you have to keep them in the war until the bomb is ready," said John Foster Dulles. "That is no problem. Unconditional surrender." "They won't agree to that," said Stettinius. "They are sworn to protect the Emperor." "Exactly," said John Foster Dulles. " KEEP JAPAN IN THE WAR ANOTHER THREE MONTHS , AND WE CAN USE THE ON THEIR CITIES , WE WILL END THIS WAR ,WITH THE NAKED FEAR OF ALL THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD , WHO WILL THEN BOW TO OUR WILL " .

 

[drifter]

WILL JAPAN SURRENDER BEFORE THE BOMB IS DROPPED?

There were still many anxious moments for the conspirators, who planned to launch a new reign of terror throughout the world. Japan had been suing for peace. Each day it seemed less likely that she could stay in the war. On March 9 and 10, 1945, 325 B-29s had burned thirty-five square miles of Tokyo, leaving more than one hundred thousand Japanese dead in the ensuing firestorm. Of Japan's 66 biggest cities, 59 had been mostly destroyed. 178 square miles of urban dwellings had been burned, 500,000 died in the fires, and now twenty million Japanese were homeless. Only four cities had not been destroyed; Hiroshima, Kokura, Niigata, and Nagasaki. Their inhabitants had no inkling that they had been saved as target cities for the experimental atomic bomb. Maj. Gen. Leslie Groves, at Bernard Baruch's insistence, had demanded that Kyoto be the initial target of the bomb. Secretary of War Stimson objected, saying that as the ancient capital of Japan, the city of Kyoto had hundreds of historic wooden temples, and no military targets. The Jews wanted to destroy it precisely because of its great cultural importance to the Japanese people.

 

[drifter]

Gar Alperowitz quotes Brig. Gen. Carter W. Clarke, in charge of preparing the MAGIC summary in 1945, who stated in a 1959 historical interview, "We brought them down to an abject surrender through the accelerated sinking of their merchant marine and hunger alone, and when we didn't need to do it, and knew we didn't need to do it, we used them as an experiment for two atomic bombs."