Is the Property Market really so Quiet ?

[whoami]

instead, there's no curb appeal, every house is too close to each other, there's too much concrete, and every house in the community looks the same - boring and devoid of character.

Sounds like Sinkieland alright.

 

[Skooz]

I prefer Johor just the way it is now ,not crowded like sg ,3 times the size and population ,more relax and taking the stride slowly then the rushing maddening crowd in sg is stressful enough ,its our getaway after a long hard work in sg ,still very much undervalued for the landed houses if compare to sg can by 5 for the price of one. so if if your thoughts are such its good for many who has bought here .

 

[RedsYNWA]

walking into the only cafe that is opened along a row of shops and restaurants that are mostly closed and vacant, and when seated, one finds himself the only customer around, don't provide the comfort and confidence one is looking for.

Bro, may I ask where is this 'mature development' you are talking about, that has only 1 customer along a row of closed/vacant shops and restaurants?

I hope you didn't stumble upon Senibong Cove/Leisure Farm/Horizon Hills/East Ledang and mistook it for a 'mature development'?

 

[sgcount]

The Umno "lawmaker", whoever he is, said: "The investments we are interested in are not housing and this is why we have called in Pinewood and Legoland to Iskandar. That is the main investment strategy but because of all these, foreign developers think there is a demand for their properties and that is not happening.....If they are willing to take the risk then we can’t stop them."

Don't you all find this ridiculous and stupid? The "Malaysia Boleh" attitude is finally showing up now.

If housing is not what Iskandar is about, then why do they allow developers to come in and built thousands of units in the first place? How can the whole of Iskandar be mainly about service and industry sectors?

If I may hazard a guess, I think those joker lawmakers are facing tremendous pressure from their own people and the developers. Johoreans, like Singaporeans, are now finding it hard to own a decent and affordable place to live in. The Malaysian lawmakers have the cheek, like Singapore's PAP, to be greedy and accepted tons of foreign investors into their country and now they are making basic housing expensive for their own people. Yet, they called it the "housing glut" as if to now blame the buyers for their stupidity!

Some developers, on the other hand, may now be unhappy that they have not sold sufficient units to have the capital to build the housing. I won't be surprised if we start seeing developments which stop halfway due to lack of funds for the developers! (As it has happened before in Malaysia.)

If a finger has to be pointed on what started this buying frenzy, I would say it is the China developers. (It's almost always about them! Who else??) The main one I can think of is Country Garden. I remember their marketing was so strong in 2013, I didn't even know they were selling condos in Danga Bay! From the endless TV commercials every night, I thought it was an amusement park they were opening! It was through them that I came to know about Iskandar.

The way CG's Danga Bay was sold was also damn cheapo and crazy. People were all rushing and many early China buyers were flipping at various prices as much as RM50,000 more than the developer's price! And there were many buyers who foolishly bought into the frenzy. I think many who bought those units thinking of investing will feel really bad now.

On the brighter side, I think it does require time for Iskandar to mature. It might take a decade or more. In the near future, I have a feeling it will be almost like a ghost town in many areas.

As many said, if you are buying for your own stay, maybe it's ok. But are these buyers the retirees?

I can't imagine if I'm still working in SG but have to live in Iskandar. The public transportation, or even if I drive, is too tiring and tedious. I have a colleague who used to live in Iskandar. He only reached work after 9am and had to go home after 8pm to avoid the traffic. I can't imagine doing that. And not everyone has the luxury to reach work so late. He has since sold his unit and come back to SG with his family to live.

 

[Deleted member 80916]

I hear stories of many Malaysia speculators who buy property with different company names....some made $$$, worst case scenario, wind-up company.

Also plenty of Singaporean & SPR's with multiple properties - rent out SG flat,..live in Johor & play landlord....

Are these people helping Iskandar to progress, or simply, blood-sucking opportunists who gamble big ?

 

[eatshitndie]

Bro, may I ask where is this 'mature development' you are talking about, that has only 1 customer along a row of closed/vacant shops and restaurants?

I hope you didn't stumble upon Senibong Cove/Leisure Farm/Horizon Hills/East Ledang and mistook it for a 'mature development'?

not these places that you mention. a friend who drove me to his home in jb bought it in 2009. he had been owning the home for 4 years in 2013 when i was there. that was his 5th time there. he bought it for investment and went back only once a year, just to check for break-ins, if any, and do some cleaning and upkeep. he's retired but still lives in his penthouse condo in sg as his kids are still going to school in sg. i don't think his family wants to move to jb. they're very comfortable in sg.

 

[Valdez]

Who is next?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...r-china-developer-says-can-t-pay-dollar-debts

 

[Frodo]

The Umno "lawmaker", whoever he is, said: "The investments we are interested in are not housing and this is why we have called in Pinewood and Legoland to Iskandar. That is the main investment strategy but because of all these, foreign developers think there is a demand for their properties and that is not happening.....If they are willing to take the risk then we can’t stop them."

Don't you all find this ridiculous and stupid? The "Malaysia Boleh" attitude is finally showing up now.

If housing is not what Iskandar is about, then why do they allow developers to come in and built thousands of units in the first place? How can the whole of Iskandar be mainly about service and industry sectors?

If I may hazard a guess, I think those joker lawmakers are facing tremendous pressure from their own people and the developers. Johoreans, like Singaporeans, are now finding it hard to own a decent and affordable place to live in. The Malaysian lawmakers have the cheek, like Singapore's PAP, to be greedy and accepted tons of foreign investors into their country and now they are making basic housing expensive for their own people. Yet, they called it the "housing glut" as if to now blame the buyers for their stupidity!

Some developers, on the other hand, may now be unhappy that they have not sold sufficient units to have the capital to build the housing. I won't be surprised if we start seeing developments which stop halfway due to lack of funds for the developers! (As it has happened before in Malaysia.)

If a finger has to be pointed on what started this buying frenzy, I would say it is the China developers. (It's almost always about them! Who else??) The main one I can think of is Country Garden. I remember their marketing was so strong in 2013, I didn't even know they were selling condos in Danga Bay! From the endless TV commercials every night, I thought it was an amusement park they were opening! It was through them that I came to know about Iskandar.

The way CG's Danga Bay was sold was also damn cheapo and crazy. People were all rushing and many early China buyers were flipping at various prices as much as RM50,000 more than the developer's price! And there were many buyers who foolishly bought into the frenzy. I think many who bought those units thinking of investing will feel really bad now.

On the brighter side, I think it does require time for Iskandar to mature. It might take a decade or more. In the near future, I have a feeling it will be almost like a ghost town in many areas.

As many said, if you are buying for your own stay, maybe it's ok. But are these buyers the retirees?

I can't imagine if I'm still working in SG but have to live in Iskandar. The public transportation, or even if I drive, is too tiring and tedious. I have a colleague who used to live in Iskandar. He only reached work after 9am and had to go home after 8pm to avoid the traffic. I can't imagine doing that. And not everyone has the luxury to reach work so late. He has since sold his unit and come back to SG with his family to live.

Yea I remember 2013/2014 was like CG craze, even my Bro in law keep jio ing me to co-buy with him. Glad I didn't because it think it is simply too high density. Who knows of they can't sell enough they may end up building half height condos or townhouses!

 

[RedsYNWA]

not these places that you mention. a friend who drove me to his home in jb bought it in 2009. he had been owning the home for 4 years in 2013 when i was there. that was his 5th time there. he bought it for investment and went back only once a year, just to check for break-ins, if any, and do some cleaning and upkeep. he's retired but still lives in his penthouse condo in sg as his kids are still going to school in sg. i don't think his family wants to move to jb. they're very comfortable in sg.

Not sure of the wisdom of buying a house for 'investment' and leaving it empty for 4 years. Anyway the idea is that for middle and upper middle class PMET families in SG (i.e. monthly income < S$20K), owning and retiring in a SG landed is out of reach.

That's where the Iskandar allure comes in, by allowing them to retire in a landed v near SG, and monetizing their SG HDB/condo at the same time. To be safe, one should preferably buy near major expressways in matured areas, i.e. JB's version of Bukit Merah, Toa Payoh etc. Such properties will always be in demand and their prices are more resilient.

Then there are others who prefer condos < RM 1 m for amenities/facilities and superior location (eg Country Garden/R&F). Again for many of them, the idea is to monetize their SG properties for a cheaper retirement in JB, and yet within a stone throw's away from SG.

Then there are others who have not stepped foot in JB for years, and who fully expect to have more utility by retiring in SG. That's the beauty of diversity. Everyone is free to make their own decisions regarding their future.

 

[AHGS14]

Not sure of the wisdom of buying a house for 'investment' and leaving it empty for 4 years. Anyway the idea is that for middle and upper middle class PMET families in SG (i.e. monthly income < S$20K), owning and retiring in a SG landed is out of reach.

That's where the Iskandar allure comes in, by allowing them to retire in a landed v near SG, and monetizing their SG HDB/condo at the same time. To be safe, one should preferably buy near major expressways in matured areas, i.e. JB's version of Bukit Merah, Toa Payoh etc. Such properties will always be in demand and their prices are more resilient.

Then there are others who prefer condos < RM 1 m for amenities/facilities and superior location (eg Country Garden/R&F). Again for many of them, the idea is to monetize their SG properties for a cheaper retirement in JB, and yet within a stone throw's away from SG.

Then there are others who have not stepped foot in JB for years, and who fully expect to have more utility by retiring in SG. That's the beauty of diversity. Everyone is free to make their own decisions regarding their future.

The worry of having sufficient to retire and continue to live in sg has escalated many folds since the last decade. There was a time when bank deposits are safe, earn good interest and inflations are manageable. If you have a million or two in FD, the (safe) interests earn may be enough for you to get by. Interests rates now are next to zero, inflations are climbing ever faster. For even upper middle income earners, you have to worry if your savings can even carry you through retirement without supplementing your income with at least a part time job; and that's no way to retire. So, many sg folks hedging their bets on JB is understandable.

 

[RedsYNWA]

The worry of having sufficient to retire and continue to live in sg has escalated many folds since the last decade. There was a time when bank deposits are safe, earn good interest and inflations are manageable. If you have a million or two in FD, the (safe) interests earn may be enough for you to get by. Interests rates now are next to zero, inflations are climbing ever faster. For even upper middle income earners, you have to worry if your savings can even carry you through retirement without supplementing your income with at least a part time job; and that's no way to retire. So, many sg folks hedging their bets on JB is understandable.

Yes, the most attractive point about JB is the ability to rent out your fully paid SG condo/HDB to FTs (whether real or fake), and convert that slowly appreciating SGD rental to MYR for retirement in JB. Assuming the fully paid SG HDB is rented out for S$2.5k, that translates to around MYR 6.7K, which is a v decent retirement sum. If you double that rental to S$5k (fully paid properties), that translates to RM 13k, more than enough to dine in Pekin restaurant every weekend. haha.

Of course there are certain trade-offs, like jams, convenience and safety. It's up to the individual to make his or her own assessment before taking the plunge.

 

[checkers]

you got the wrong sinkie idea about "vibrancy". if i wish to live in jb in the suburbs, the bangkok or kl vibrancy is not what i would want. the purpose of retiring in a sprawling suburb is the green, quiet, and spacious lifestyle. yet, in such suburbs, one should find folks who are likeminded with leisure time, friendliness, consideration for others, shopping and groceries that cater to basic needs and fresh, local produce plus imported food and ingredients, and amenities and services that are well-staffed and in business. it doesn't need urban congested vibrancy like you'll find in sg. just nice quiet folks that can be seen, not necessarily heard. walking into the only cafe that is opened along a row of shops and restaurants that are mostly closed and vacant, and when seated, one finds himself the only customer around, don't provide the comfort and confidence one is looking for.

Hey, you have not been to my neighbourhood, have you? It is similar to what you have described, rather green, pretty quiet and spacious .

 

[Frodo]

Not sure of the wisdom of buying a house for 'investment' and leaving it empty for 4 years. Anyway the idea is that for middle and upper middle class PMET families in SG (i.e. monthly income < S$20K), owning and retiring in a SG landed is out of reach.

That's where the Iskandar allure comes in, by allowing them to retire in a landed v near SG, and monetizing their SG HDB/condo at the same time. To be safe, one should preferably buy near major expressways in matured areas, i.e. JB's version of Bukit Merah, Toa Payoh etc. Such properties will always be in demand and their prices are more resilient.

Then there are others who prefer condos < RM 1 m for amenities/facilities and superior location (eg Country Garden/R&F). Again for many of them, the idea is to monetize their SG properties for a cheaper retirement in JB, and yet within a stone throw's away from SG.

Then there are others who have not stepped foot in JB for years, and who fully expect to have more utility by retiring in SG. That's the beauty of diversity. Everyone is free to make their own decisions regarding their future.

Wah lau...my family income (i.e. just me bringing in the dole :o) is way way below $20K.....so owning a piece of land is not only out of reach...but way way out of reach. :( Having said that, I was not even aiming for a landed in Singapore (I know my limits) but just a larger HDB flat than the current 4 room. Cut long story short...money not enough.....HDB already out of reach...not to say landed!

But when I looked beyond Singapore to Johore (hey it rhymes!) the situation became optimistic by orders of magnitude. Thank God I got in before the minimum RM1 million rule kicked in for landed properties. And like you said, I got to rent out my HDB (which I almost sold off but held back) for a good rental sum which is more than enough to pay for my JB home instalment. So what's it like after a year since moving into JB? Other than the weekday commute for work, on the whole just two words, "Life's Good" or at least better than in Singapore....ooops promoting LG brand! LOL!

 

[RedsYNWA]

Wah lau...my family income (i.e. just me bringing in the dole :o) is way way below $20K.....so owning a piece of land is not only out of reach...but way way out of reach. :(

Haha, what I mean is that for SG families earning < $20k monthly, they can forget about SG landed, which will need a min of S$2.5m (probably $3m including reno). Yes I also agree that for a stable rental income to retire, Singaporeans must die die hang onto the HDB flat. SG's current housing policies actually favour overseas properties, specifically JB, KL, and Penang a lot, as that is the easiest way to monetize SG properties without incurring ABSD.

 

[Frodo]

Haha, what I mean is that for SG families earning < $20k monthly, they can forget about SG landed, which will need a min of S$2.5m (probably $3m including reno). Yes I also agree that for a stable rental income to retire, Singaporeans must die die hang onto the HDB flat. SG's current housing policies actually favour overseas properties, specifically JB, KL, and Penang a lot, as that is the easiest way to monetize SG properties without incurring ABSD.

Yes, very true. We almost slaughtered our golden goose (HDB flat)! LOL! Now got chance we sometimes also share the "Gospel" of Iskandar for people in similar life circumstances as ours. Poor ordinary people like me if two feet stay in Singapore forever is just one HDB property that is ultimately not even for children to possess. But if one foot in Singapore and one foot in Johore then can have 2 or more property for posterity (haha...it rhymes again!) LOL!

 

[RedsYNWA]

Yes, very true. We almost slaughtered our golden goose (HDB flat)! LOL! Now got chance we sometimes also share the "Gospel" of Iskandar for people in similar life circumstances as ours. Poor ordinary people like me if two feet stay in Singapore forever is just one HDB property that is ultimately not even for children to possess. But if one foot in Singapore and one foot in Johore then can have 2 or more property for posterity (haha...it rhymes again!) LOL!

Haha yes, same same for poor ordinary people like me too. Eventually in 20 years time, I just want to own 1 HDB & 1 SG condo (debt-free) for renting out, while I retire in a simple double storey terrace in JB....... Not possible to do that comfortably in SG.....