Indian FTrash: No NS for Me, Please!

[makapaaa]

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead vAlign=top><TD class=msgF width="1%" noWrap align=right>From: </TD><TD class=msgFname width="68%" noWrap>kojakbt89 <NOBR></NOBR> </TD><TD class=msgDate width="30%" noWrap align=right>9:44 pm </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT height=20 width="1%" noWrap align=right>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname width="68%" noWrap>ALL <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right> (1 of 4) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft rowSpan=4 width="1%"> </TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>42841.1 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgtxt>Jan 2, 2011

NEW CITIZEN
'I love everything about Singapore'

<!-- by line -->By Chua Hian Hou
<!-- end by line -->
<!-- end left side bar -->

Engineer Manish Oswal, 30, showing off his new pink IC. With him is his wife, accounts executive Bela Oswal, 29. They both come from India. -- ST PHOTO: NG SOR LUAN

<!-- story content : start -->
If anybody asks for his identity card (IC) this year, Mr Manish Oswal will proudly whip out his spanking new pink IC.
Mr Oswal, 30, and 350 other new citizens received their certificates of citizenship and pink ICs just two weeks ago at a ceremony for new citizens held at the Supreme Court, the last one for 2010.
'I love everything about Singapore,' said Mr Oswal, who came here in 1999 to study electrical engineering at the National University of Singapore.
He has stayed on. Six years ago, he secured permanent residency here and had since deliberated hard about taking the final step to becoming a Singaporean.
It was, after all, a 'big, difficult decision' since it meant giving up his Indian citizenship.
But last November, he decided to take the plunge and apply for citizenship here.
His adopted home, he said, offers a 'very safe, clean environment for my family, and a good education system for children'.
Mr Oswal, who lives with his wife in a four-room Housing Board apartment in Choa Chu Kang, does not have children yet. The couple want to start a family.
His wife, who is also Indian, is still a Singapore permanent resident, but is planning to apply for citizenship this year.
Another reason to cast in his lot with Singapore is career prospects, said Mr Oswal, a research and design engineer with digital storage giant Seagate.
Many top international electronics companies, he said, have set up R&D laboratories here that offer challenging and well-paid jobs to those with the right skills.
Having waxed lyrical about Singapore's positive points, he was stumped when asked to identify the Republic's shortcomings.
It is not that he is deaf to many Singaporeans' grouses - from the inexorably rising housing prices to perceived overcrowding.
'I have lived in India and in Indonesia, so I know what Singapore offers its people. A lot of people complain, but maybe it is because they have not seen other countries outside Singapore,' said Mr Oswal, who goes back to India every year to visit his parents and siblings.
'That's very important, being able to stay in touch with my family,' he said, adding that Singapore's good transport links to his country of birth helped him make up his mind.
Mr Oswal's vision is to strike out on his own, develop a product and sell it worldwide.
'The laws here are strict, especially with regard to intellectual property protection, so it is a good place to make something and commercialise it.'

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[Coolsaint77]

I can't see any part of the article that says "No NS for me please"

 

[exSINgaporean]

I can't see any part of the article that says "No NS for me please"

It's implied.

PUPPIES say it is inconvenient for this 30 something year old man to do N.S.....it would interrupt his career....F9&K what about Singaporeans men....I served my damn 2 yrs of full time N.S. and another 8 yrs of reservist LIABILITIES before immigration.

This An Nei if come to Canada, he can work as taxi driver.

 

[Watchman]

It's implied.

PUPPIES say it is inconvenient for this 30 something year old man to do N.S.....it would interrupt his career....F9&K what about Singaporeans men....I served my damn 2 yrs of full time N.S. and another 8 yrs of reservist LIABILITIES before immigration.

This An Nei if come to Canada, he can work as taxi driver.

He can always continue his extended yearly reservist . Exempt the recruit go straight into 10 year cycle .

 

[Watchman]

Why are Singaporeans complaining yet they
support businesses that hire FTs ?

 

[Watchman]

We cannot allow PAP to continue to unset the local boys .

This is obviously a three sided coin .

 

[wahlaneh]

wahlaneh...
no NS no PR for chow ahneh!
go back sell roti chennai lah!

 

[Leongsam]

S. U. C. K. E. R. S. !

​

 

[Ramseth]

Who's that overgrown freak? He'd be the first the get his head blown off in a shoot-out battle.

 

[Don Muthuswamy]

I can't see any part of the article that says "No NS for me please"

Makapaaa is also prob becuming like the retarded madmansg whose got his brain damaged bcos of NS.

 

[Leongsam]

RECENT DEATHS OF NATIONAL SERVICEMEN
(Additional preventive measures)​

14. Mr Siew Kum Hong asked the Minister for Defence in view of the three deaths of National Servicemen during training this year, whether the Ministry intends to implement any additional measures to prevent such deaths.

The Minister for Defence (Mr Teo Chee Hean): Mr Speaker, Sir, Mr Siew Kum Hong asked, in view of the death of three servicemen during training this year, whether the Ministry intends to implement any additional measures to prevent such deaths. At the outset, perhaps I should clarify that Mr Siew asked about three national servicemen. In fact, out of three servicemen, two of them were national servicemen and one was a regular serviceman.

Let me recap the steps that have been taken. Immediately after the deaths of REC Andrew Cheah (a full-time national serviceman) and 2LT Clifton Lam (a regular serviceman) on 10th and 11th June this year, the SAF took a 3-day time-out to review its training safety systems. The review established that the systems are good and sound. As for the recent death of PTE Foo (a full-time national serviceman) on 30th September this year, a Committee of Inquiry has been convened and investigations are ongoing.

I want to assure Mr Siew and Members of this House that the safety and well-being of our servicemen is taken very seriously. At the last parliamentary session, I explained to the House in some detail our medical screening processes. These medical screening processes are in line with good international clinical practice and are continually reviewed by independent panels of medical consultants and specialists, and where there are improvements that can be made, we will do so.

Safety of our servicemen doing training is also taken very seriously. Training is progressive and graduated. Over and beyond having sound training systems, there is command emphasis to ensure that our soldiers are well prepared for training and strenuous exercises. For example, the training schedule is designed so that before any strenuous activity, servicemen do get sufficient rest and follow a proper hydration regime. An attending medic will be on-site during the conduct of the strenuous activity to deliver prompt medical care. In the event of a medical emergency, there are proper and established procedures to deliver prompt and appropriate medical attention to the serviceman.

Apart from this, commanders look out for servicemen who show signs that they are not feeling well. Such servicemen would be excused from training to seek medical attention. Servicemen are also reminded to tell their commanders should they feel unwell during or after any training activity. This is important as it is sometimes not easy or possible to know if someone is not feeling well unless the soldier himself tells his commander.

Mr Speaker, Sir, let me reiterate that the well-being of our soldiers is always a priority in the SAF. We have to train our soldiers hard so that they have the ability to fight, and to defend Singapore should the need arise, and it will help to ensure success on the battle-field and that they return home safely after that. So the SAF provides tough and realistic training to our soldiers but the SAF also maintains high safety standards to ensure that safety is not compromised.

I think both Mr Siew and I know that, despite our best efforts to reduce risk in training, it is not possible to guarantee that there will never be injury or death arising from it. Nevertheless, I can assure this House that the SAF will continue to do its best to look after our servicemen and servicewomen in terms of medical screening, proper training systems, training safety procedures and medical coverage during training activities. They are, after all, our sons and our daughters and every life is precious to us.

Mr Siew Kum Hong: Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Minister for his response and assurances to this House.

I only have one supplementary question, which is to ask the Minister what is the status of the inquiries by MINDEF into the deaths of the late 2LT Clifton Lam and the late REC Andrew Cheah, and, given the public interest, will the results be made public.

Mr Teo Chee Hean: Mr Speaker, Sir, in the case of 2LT Clifton Lam, the Higher Board of Inquiry convened by MNIDEF has been completed and the cause of 2LT Lam's death is heat stroke.

For all training activities, trainees are constantly reminded to hydrate themselves. There are water breaks and water parades when trainees drink water. In the event when there is an exercise where the trainee is required to take responsibility for himself, such as the training that 2LT Lam was undergoing, which was a three-day jungle confidence course, they were given safety briefings and, in this case, he was provided with four litres of water and purification tablets to purify stream or river water for drinking.

The HBOI, unfortunately, established that 2LT Lam may not have hydrated himself adequately during this period of training. The HOBI looked into the SAF's safety systems and was satisfied that these were in place and that there was no safety breach, neither was there foul play or negligence on the part of any personnel.

In the case of REC Andrew Cheah, the Committee of Inquiry investigation has been completed. Based on the autopsy report, the cause of REC Cheah's death is acute pneumonitis. I should point out that in neither case was the cause of death linked to medical screening as such. So the case of REC Cheah's death was determined by the autopsy report as acute pneumonitis. This is an acute infection causing extensive inflammation of the lungs. The typical symptoms are cough, phlegm, fever, pain in the chest, body aches and difficulty in breathing.

However, it is possible, the doctors tell us, for a person to suffer from lung infection and yet not develop cough or fever, and this was indeed the case of REC Cheah. The infection must have been abrupt and caused his condition to deteriorate rapidly.

REC Cheah told his section mates before the two-kilometre walk that he felt a little breathless; and during the walk, his instructor who was walking with REC Cheah, observed that he looked tired and was breathing hard. However, he had no other observable symptoms such as cough or fever. In these circumstances, it was difficult for his instructors or platoon mates, or indeed for REC Cheah himself, to have known that the breathlessness was caused by acute pneumonitis and not simply fatigue.

The instructor had asked REC Cheah whether he was not feeling well, REC Cheah replied that he was just tired. Hence, the instructor allowed REC Cheah to continue with the walk around the stadium in Pulau Tekong camp and did not pull him out as REC Cheah was able to converse with him, answer his questions with clarity in speech and in thought.

The COI concluded that the instructor's decision to let REC Cheah continue with the walk was not unreasonable. The COI concluded that there was no safety breach and neither was there foul play or negligence on the part of any personnel.

 

[Leongsam]

Good for SAF to have regular medical reviews, says MP
By S Ramesh, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 16 June 2008 1926 hrs

SINGAPORE: With regular reviews of its medical protocol, the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) can assure national servicemen and their parents that the teenagers are given a thorough medical check-up before they are enlisted.

This is according to MP Michael Palmer, who sits in the Government Parliamentary Committee on Defence and Foreign Affairs.

Mr Palmer added that it is also important that the SAF is not complacent when it comes to safety procedures during training.

When two SAF servicemen died within two days during training last week, the SAF took an unprecedented move of suspending physical and endurance training activities for three days to review the procedures.

Observers say the two deaths are a wake-up call on the importance of adhering to laid-down principles and procedures in national service training.

At the same time, Singaporeans have shown that they remain confident in the ability of the SAF to safeguard the country's security.

This is important, said Mr Palmer. "If you lose confidence in the SAF, the regular forces, their morale would be dampened, the national servicemen, their morale would be dampened and people would not want to go for their NS reservist training. So you are going to have a force that is depleted.

"From the SAF point of view, no commander wants to lose a man. In wartime, yes, but in peacetime, no commander wants to lose a man. So from the SAF's point of view, every commander would want to make sure that procedures are properly followed and that we have confidence in our commanders and military."

He added: "Most of the feedback I get is in terms of timing, in terms of studies and whether they would be able to catch up with their studies after they go and do their national service. So far, parents have not expressed that concern about safety. Overall, my view is people have that confidence and we need to maintain that confidence."

The Defence Ministry says the SAF has also received a number of suggestions from the public on safe training procedures. These will be evaluated as part of its on-going process to ensure that training is carried out safely. - CNA/ir

 

[Leongsam]

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td>CNA: Government to impose stiffer penalties for NS defaulters Christine Jan 16th, 06, 07:20 PM </td> <td align="right" valign="top" width="310"> #1 </td> </tr> </tbody></table> The Government is introducing stiffer penalties for National Service defaulters.

Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean told parliament on Monday that the fine would be doubled to S$10,000.

The maximum jail sentence of 3 years will not go up, but the Defence Ministry will now push for a jail term for defaulters in serious cases.

These changes come in the wake of returned Singaporean Melvyn Tan, who stirred up public dissatisfaction when he was fined S$3,000 for defaulting on his NS many years ago.

Under the proposed new laws which will be tabled in Parliament, somebody like Melvyn Tan would certainly now have to spend some time behind bars.

In the past 20 years, there have been 43 National Service defaulters who have gone to jail, and another 140 fined.

Annually, about a hundred, or 0.5 percent of the cohort, default on NS.

 

[Leongsam]

MINDEF to press for jail sentence in serious cases of NS defaulters <table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="AutoNumber2" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="450"><tbody><tr> <td>

<center> <table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="AutoNumber3" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="280"> <tbody><tr> <td>

</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Source: www.mindef.gov.sg ​

</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center"> MINISTERIAL STATEMENT ON NATIONAL SERVICE DEFAULTERS BY MINISTER FOR DEFENCE TEO CHEE HEAN IN PARLIAMENT, 16 JAN 2006</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center"> An Excerpt</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </center>​

</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> Our National Service policy is underpinned by three fundamental principles.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> The first is that National Service must be for meeting a critical national need ¨C for it requires considerable cost both to the individual and to the nation. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> That critical need is national security and our survival. This is why NSmen are deployed only in the Singapore Armed Forces, the Singapore Police Force and the Singapore Civil Defence Force, where they contribute directly to the security and defence of Singapore.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> Once in a while, there are suggestions that Singaporeans should be allowed different forms of National Service. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> For example, a recent commentary by Ms Ong Soh Chin of The Straits Times advocated a rethink of the scope of National Service. She suggested that it be extended to include other forms of non-combat service, such as in the social sector or in the arts. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> MINDEF does not think this is appropriate. We are clear that if we require or compel our people to perform National Service, it must be to fulfil a critical national need. Otherwise there is insufficient reason to compel a person to serve.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> The second fundamental principle of our National Service is universality. All young Singaporean males who are fit to serve are conscripted. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> If we have a system in which some are conscripted but others are not, there will be strong feelings of unfairness which will undermine the commitment of our NSmen.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> This is not unique to Singapore. This was a problem that the US faced during the Vietnam War. Not everyone was conscripted. Some exploited loopholes and technicalities to avoid being drafted. There were exemptions, deferments and alternative forms of service. This affected morale and the will to fight among those who were drafted, and it also affected the American people¡¯s support for conscription and the war. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> MINDEF has always been very clear that National Service must be universal ¨C all who are fit to serve National Service must serve.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> The third fundamental principle of our National Service is equity. Everyone has to be treated in the same way, regardless of background or status. His deployment in NS is determined by where he is most needed to meet the needs of national defence.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> In line with these three principles, MINDEF has consistently taken a tough stand against those who default on their National Service obligations. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> We have introduced various measures over the years to prevent such persons from evading National Service. For example, the Constitution was amended in 1979 so that those who refused to serve could not escape their National Service obligation by simply renouncing their citizenship. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> Only those who have emigrated at a young age and have not enjoyed substantial socio-economic benefits are allowed to renounce their citizenship without serving National Service.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> Since 1970, we have required pre-enlistees who are going overseas for an extended period to post a bond as a promise that they will return to fulfil their National Service obligation. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> The bond quantum was $20,000 in 1970 and it has been increased over the years. Since 1992, the bond quantum has been set at $75,000 or half the combined annual income of the parents, whichever is higher. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> The bond is however not a substitute for National Service. If a pre-enlistee fails to return to serve his National Service, not only has he broken his bond but, more importantly, he has broken his promise and broken the law by not returning to fulfil his National Service obligation. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> The bond quantum that is forfeited is the penalty he has to pay for breaking the bond. It is not redemption and not a substitute for National Service. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> He still has to face the law for failing to comply with his National Service obligation under the Enlistment Act; and he still remains liable for National Service.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> Sir, there is strong support for National Service among Singaporeans. Every year only a small number, about 0.5% of those liable for NS each year, or on average 100 unresolved cases of NS defaulters a year over the past 5 years, fail to register or enlist for National Service, or fail to return after their exit permits expired. The vast majority of these defaulters are overseas.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> An average of 12 NS defaulters a year were charged in Court for failing to comply with the Enlistment Act. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> The offences carry a sentence of up to 3 years imprisonment, a fine of up to $5,000, or both. The sentence is decided by the Court based on the circumstances of each case. Besides answering to the Court, NS defaulters who are still Singaporeans and below the age of 40 will have to serve National Service...</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> NS defaulters are dealt with under the Enlistment Act as they have failed to respond to orders to register or enlist for National Service, or failed to comply with Exit Permit requirements. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> MINDEF¡¯s approach in dealing with NS defaulters has been to charge them in Court for Enlistment Act offences and let the Court impose an appropriate sentence based on the circumstances of each case and the provisions of the Enlistment Act.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> Over the past 20 years, 185 NS defaulters have been convicted in Court for Enlistment Act offences. Of these, 43 received jail sentences, 140 were fined and 2 were punished in connection with other civil offences. Of the 140 who were fined, 35 were ultimately jailed when they did not pay their fines.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> Of the 185 convicted defaulters, 127 were enlisted or are awaiting enlistment for National Service following their convictions. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> 2 were supposed to enlist but defaulted again prior to their enlistment. 33 were not drafted as they were unsuitable for enlistment for security or medical reasons ¨C that is, they would not have been enlisted in any case even if they had not defaulted on NS. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> The remaining 23 were not drafted because they were either above the statutory age limit or no longer Singaporeans. So that¡¯s just 23.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> Of note is that the High Court had, in a 1993 case reduced the sentences of two NS defaulters ¨C two brothers ¨C from 8 months imprisonment to a fine of $3,000 on appeal.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> This was an unusual case where it could be said that there were mitigating circumstances. Since then the Subordinate Courts have been using this case as a guideline, and not imposed a jail sentence on single-instance defaulters, no matter how long the default period was. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> The courts have imposed jail sentences only in cases where there were aggravating circumstances, such as repeated Enlistment Act offences, past criminal records, concurrent charges of other civil offences, and absconding during investigation.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> It is for the Court to decide on the appropriate punishment for individual cases of NS defaulters. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> MINDEF had not been pressing for custodial sentences, nor had it appealed for heavier sentences. The majority of cases so far have been those who returned at a relatively young age and were thus still able to fulfil their National Service obligations. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> Half of those charged in Court over the past 20 years returned at age 21 or younger, and 80% returned at age 28 or younger. A fine for such NS defaulters was not inappropriate as they were still able to serve their National Service obligations in full.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> However, Melvyn Tan¡¯s case has highlighted an inadequacy in penalties for those who have defaulted for so many years that they are no longer able to discharge their National Service obligations in full. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> Since the appeal case in the High Court in 1993, besides Melvyn Tan there have been 13 other cases of convicted defaulters who were sentenced only to a fine and who were not subsequently enlisted because they were already over 40 or almost 40. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> This is something that we need to look into more closely, especially as there may now be more defaulters who are 40 or older coming before the courts with the passing of time.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> Sir, in the middle of last year, MINDEF embarked on a periodic review of the Enlistment Act and the Singapore Armed Forces Act. This review focused on the penalty regimes in the Act. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> The review of the penalty regime in the Singapore Armed Forces Act was completed in November last year and a bill to amend the Singapore Armed Forces Act is up for 2nd reading now before the House. The proposal is to increase the maximum fine quantum in the SAF Act...</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> MINDEF will be proposing to the House to increase the maximum fine provided for in the Enlistment Act from the current $5,000 to $10,000. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> This will be in line with the amendment to the Singapore Armed Forces Act which is now before the House. While the maximum fine will be higher, it is important to note that the fine, like the bond, is not a substitute for serving National Service. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> The fine is a penalty for failing to fulfil his obligations under the Enlistment Act, and the defaulter remains liable for National Service.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> MINDEF has concluded that the maximum jail sentence of 3 years is adequate, as it is longer than the current full-time National Service duration of two years. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> Whether or not a particular offence merits the maximum punishment of 3 years imprisonment would be a matter for the Court to decide based on the facts of each case.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> MINDEF does not consider it necessary at this time to seek a minimum mandatory jail sentence for Enlistment Act offences, as the circumstances of the cases vary widely.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> However, from now on, MINDEF will ask the prosecutor to press for a jail sentence in serious cases of NS defaulters, and explain why we consider a jail sentence appropriate in a particular case. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> Serious cases include those who default on their full-time National Service responsibilities for two years or longer from the time they were required to register or enlist, or from the time their exit permits expired for those granted deferment, whichever is later. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> We believe that it is in the public interest that such NS defaulters face a jail sentence, unless there are mitigating circumstances.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> I would like to provide some illustrations of what MINDEF considers to be sentences appropriate to the nature of the offence or commensurate with its gravity:</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> - Where the default period exceeds two years but the defaulter is young enough to serve his full-time and operationally ready NS duties in full, MINDEF will press for a short jail sentence.
- Where the defaulter has reached an age when he cannot serve his full-time NS in a combat vocation or fulfil his operationally ready NS obligations in full, a longer jail sentence to reflect the period of NS he has evaded may be appropriate.
- Where the defaulter has reached an age when he cannot be called up for NS at all, a jail sentence up to the maximum of 3 years may be appropriate.
</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> In all instances, we expect that the Court will take into account whatever aggravating or mitigating circumstances there may be in each case to determine the appropriate sentence...</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> Mr Speaker, Sir, the response to Melvyn Tan¡¯s case has highlighted that Singaporeans feel strongly that defaulting on National Service is wrong and defaulters should face serious consequences.</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> The Government agrees with this view. NS defaulters must face the Court to answer for their offences, and thereafter must discharge their National Service liabilities. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> Whether such NS defaulters, who have answered for their offences in Court and paid the penalty, should be eventually accepted back into our fold, is not something that MINDEF can determine. </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left"> It is for society to decide. And society will also look at whether such individuals, apart from having paid a penalty, are sincerely contrite for having failed to serve our nation, and whether they have attempted to made amends.</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

[yellow_people]

Put yourself in Mr. Manish Oswal's situation... if you had a CHOICE, you would opt to serve NS?

 

[Leongsam]

While those born in Singapore have to serve NS first before renouncing their citizenship, foreigners can simply walk into the country and acquire all the privileges of citizenship with no obligations whatsoever.

What a wonderful cuntry.

 

[wahlaneh]

wahlaneh...
last time my CO said: "if u r born in Singapore able-bodied male of 18 yrs old, u r under conscript to serve the nation thru National Service - u don't have a choice!"

 

[Ramseth]

Where there's conscription, all whom are fit to serve should serve, that's alright in principle. But those who are fit but choose to renounce citizenship, I think it's senseless. They should be allowed to go wherever they want to and can go. Why force someone who doesn't want to be Singaporean anymore to defend Singapore? It betrays the principle loftity stated that NS is not punishment, but necessity.

Benefits enjoyed as a Singaporean kid? Oh please, nothing is free in Singapore The kids' parents paid through their noses and asses for educating and bringing up kids. And don't give that bullshit or fart about market subsidies again. Kids are profitable businesses for the government. Check out the kingergarten fees. Baby bonuses? That's quite recent, but still can take it back and let them go, if they don't want to be Singaporeans anymore. It's also high risk for patriotic soldiers and policemen to be working alongside people being forced to do it but uncommitted and uninterested.

 

[yellow_people]

While those born in Singapore have to serve NS first before renouncing their citizenship, foreigners can simply walk into the country and acquire all the privileges of citizenship with no obligations whatsoever.

What a wonderful cuntry.

What's truly bewildering is that Confucian serfs are satisfied with the "status quo".

 

[wahlaneh]

Where there's conscription, all whom are fit to serve should serve, that's alright in principle. But those who are fit but choose to renounce citizenship, I think it's senseless. They should be allowed to go wherever they want to and can go. Why force someone who doesn't want to be Singaporean anymore to defend Singapore? It betrays the principle loftity stated that NS is not punishment, but necessity.

Benefits enjoyed as a Singaporean kid? Oh please, nothing is free in Singapore The kids' parents paid through their noses and asses for educating and bringing up kids. And don't give that bullshit or fart about market subsidies again. Kids are profitable businesses for the government. Check out the kingergarten fees. Baby bonuses? That's quite recent, but still can take it back and let them go, if they don't want to be Singaporeans anymore. It's also high risk for patriotic soldiers and policemen to be working alongside people being forced to do it but uncommitted and uninterested.

wahlaneh...
points taken!
anyway, ive already finished serving my 2 years full-time NS plus 13-years cycle of In-Camp Training now im no longer liable for NS liao - no owe them liao!