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India V China : The Indians lost 20 But Killed 50 PLA Goons! The Chinese Cannot fight!

Chinese media outlet tells India to 'wake up from its geopolitical fantasy' after deadly border dispute
By South Asia correspondent James Oaten with ABC staff and wires
Posted Yesterday, updated Yesterday
12368068-16x9-xlarge.jpg
Indians have held protests against China after the deadly clash. (Image: AP)
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India has accused China of trying to change the "status quo" by making "exaggerated and untenable" claims of sovereignty over the disputed Galwan Valley, after soldiers from both nations were involved in a deadly brawl in the hotly contested region this week.
Key points:
  • China hasn't revealed its number of deaths but claims India provoked the attack
  • Indian PM Modi said the death of Indian troops "would not be in vain"
  • The two nuclear-armed Asian giants have agreed to dialogue to resolve tensions
India has reported 20 Indian soldiers, including a colonel, have died of severe injuries in the dispute on Monday night local time.
Indian news outlet ANI cited unnamed sources saying at least 43 Chinese troops were dead or seriously injured.
Chinese officials and media have admitted to casualties but so far remained silent on the number of deaths.
When questioned regarding the number of Chinese casualties, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian said: "The border troops of the two sides are dealing with the specifics on the ground."
Hu Xijin, editor of the nationalistic Chinese-state owned Global Times, said in a Weibo post the Chinese side had sustained casualties.
"According to the information I got from the people who are familiar with the matter at my urgent request, our side also suffered casualties," he wrote, without providing further detail.
China and India accused each other of instigating the conflict.
China said Indian forces carried out "provocative attacks" on its troops.
"Shockingly, on June 15, the Indian troops … crossed the LAC [Line of Actual Control] for illegal activities, and provoked and attacked Chinese personnel, which caused violent physical clashes between the two sides, causing casualties," Mr Zhao said.
India, however, levelled the blame on "an attempt by the Chinese side to unilaterally change the status quo there", with Indian media reports saying Indian officials tried to dismantle a tent on the Line of Actual Control that overlooked Indian positions.
"Both sides have agreed that the overall situation should be handled in a responsible manner," a statement from India's Ministry of External Affairs said.
"Making exaggerated and untenable claims is contrary to this understanding."
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Former Indian army Colonel Ajai Shukla referred to the "aggressiveness that the Chinese have displayed on the ground".
"It was completely savage."
The former Colonel has been highly critical of the Modi Government's handling of the conflict, saying it has tried and failed to use appeasement.
"The Government is now probably waking up to the seriousness and gravity of the situation," he said.
Long-simmering tensions
Indian officials said soldiers were hit with rocks and clubs studded with nails during the brawl that erupted in the remote Galwan Valley, high in the mountains where India's Ladakh region borders the Aksai Chinese region captured by China during the 1962 war.
Under an old agreement between the two nuclear-armed Asian giants, no shots are to be fired at the border, where both countries claim vast swathes of each other's territory along the Himalayan border.
A night-time brawl broke out and lasted hours, according to local media reports, while some soldiers lost their footing and plunged to their deaths in the steep mountain terrain.
Kashmiri Bakarwal nomads walk with a donkey and children as an Indian army convoy drives past.
China says it is seeking a peaceful resolution to its Himalayan border dispute with India after their most violent confrontation in decades.(AP: Mukhtar Khan)
Nathan Ruser, a researcher at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, said satellite imagery showed brewing tensions.
"We've seen both sides set up military positions a lot closer to the demarcation line, and a lot closer to each other," he told the ABC.
"In the Galwan Valley, a lot of the Chinese advances have been into a valley that allows them to set up positions into a ridgeline that looks over Indian positions."
An annotated satellite image showing the Indian and Chinese army positions in the Galwan Valley.
ASPI researcher Nathan Ruser said satellite images showed the Chinese and Indian militaries had moved much closer to each other.(Supplied: Nathan Ruser, ASPI)
Prime Minister Narendra Modi said in a speech Wednesday that: "India wants peace but is capable of giving a befitting reply."
He has called a meeting of India's major political parties on Friday to discuss the China situation.
Chinese State Councillor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi held phone talks with Indian Minister of External Affairs Subrahmanyam Jaishankar on Wednesday, urging the Indian side to thoroughly investigate the clash on the border of the two countries, the Chinese Foreign Ministry reported.
In response to a query on the statement by the Chinese side that the sovereignty of the Galwan Valley area belongs to China, the official spokesperson Anurag Srivastava reiterated the two sides had a phone conversation about the recent developments in Ladakh.
An editorial in the nationalistic state-owned Global Times, a Chinese Government mouthpiece, said: "We believe Indian society should wake up from its geopolitical fantasy" and "view China pragmatically".
Funerals for Indian soldiers underway
Indian army soldiers dressed in military uniform carry the coffin of their colleague.
Indian army soldiers carry the coffin of their colleague Sunil Kumar, who was killed during the confrontation.(AP: Aftab Alam Siddiqui)
As funerals for the 20 soldiers killed in the brawl commenced, protesters gathered outside the Chinese embassy in New Delhi and in other cities across India, with many burning photos of Chinese President Xi Jinping.
"We have assembled here to pay our respects, the way they gave their lives fighting bravely," said Ashok Goel from among the crowds.
"Today all of the country is standing with them, with their families."
Indians light candles in front of pictures of men that were killed.
Mourners light candles in Hyderabad to pay tributes to Indian soldiers killed during the clash.(AP: Mahesh Kumar A)
Prime Minister Narendra Modi led a two-minute silence for the Indian soldiers who lost their lives and said India would "defend every stone, every inch of its territory".
"For us, the unity and sovereignty of the country is the most important."
A further escalation should not be ruled out, said Pravin Sawhney, a military expert and editor of FORCE, a monthly magazine focused on national security.
"They [China] are fully prepared for it," he said.
"On the other hand, India's response has been very subdued and defensive in nature. There is no immediate threat of an all-out war with China but India should be concerned about an exit strategy and I fear they have none."
Posted Yesterday, updated Yesterday
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Peiweh said:
Of course they did whole world now knows how crappy the military in China is. But still the PRC lost to the Indians twice! I mean its like Christmas has come early! Easy pickens as they say. The Americans can kill all the PRCs with ease.

View attachment 83548
Click to expand...
so americans can kenna whack chinks got no defense
 
Winnie deliberately stirring shit out of desperation.

 
China releases 10 Indian soldiers after border battle
India border
Indian Border Security Force (BSF) soldiers guard a highway leading towards Leh, bordering China, in Gagangir. (Tauseef MUSTAFA/AFP)
19 Jun 2020 06:08AM
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NEW DELHI: China has freed 10 Indian soldiers captured in a high-altitude border clash in the Himalayas which left at least 20 Indian soldiers dead, media reports said on Friday (Jun 19).

The release follows several rounds of talks between the two sides in a bid to ease tensions after the battle on Monday, in which scores of troops from the two sides fought with nail-studded batons and hurled rocks at each other.

The 10 soldiers were freed late on Thursday, the Press Trust of India news agency and other media reported.

The Indian government made no comment but the army released a statement saying: "It is clarified that there are no Indian troops missing in action" after the fighting in the Galwan Valley area of Ladakh.

Protesters hold posters of Chinese President Xi Jinping during an anti-China demonstration
Protesters hold posters of Chinese President Xi Jinping during an anti-China demonstration near the Chinese embassy in New Delhi. (AFP/Sajjad HUSSAIN)
The Hindu newspaper said an agreement on the release was reached at major general-level talks between the Indian army and China's People's Liberation Army.

India and China have blamed each other for the most serious fighting in more than 50 years along their bitterly contested Himalayas border, where they fought a war in 1962.

READ: Satellite images suggest Chinese activity at Himalayan border with India before clash
Amidst calls for a boycott of Chinese goods, thousands attended funerals on Thursday for many of the 20 Indian soldiers killed in the clash. Chinese flags and posters of China's President Xi Jinping were burned in at least two cities.

Family members lay wreaths on the coffin of an Indian soldier
Family members lay wreaths on the coffin of an Indian soldier killed in the clash with Chinese forces in the Galwan valley area. (AFP/NARINDER NANU)
 
Commentary: China's boundary skirmishes with India have wider economic and geopolitical implications
With limited options, Beijing could be pushing New Delhi to a closer Western embrace, says Yogesh Joshi.

Tensions have been rising on the border between India and China in recent weeks
Tensions have been rising on the border between India and China in recent weeks AFP/Chandan Khanna
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SINGAPORE: India and China share a legally undemarcated frontier along the high Himalayas.

After the 1962 Sino-Indian War, China and India settled with perceptions of a boundary which they called the Line of Actual Control (LAC). The Indian and Chinese versions of the LAC, however, overlap.

Transgressions are a regular feature of this boundary dispute as are skirmishes among troops tasked to enforce these claims.

MOST VIOLENT SKIRMISHES IN 45 YEARS

Since 1975, not a single shot has been fired along the Sino-Indian border. Neither has there been casualties under any physical contact with the adversary.

Even when Indian and Chinese forces involved themselves in several stand-off-like situations over these past 45 years, the two sides abjured the use of force and avoided deadly combat.

That all changed on Monday (Jun 15) night when the Indian Army and the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) soldiers clashed in Galwan Valley, along the Galwan River in Ladakh – India’s northern-most frontier with China.

READ: Commentary: The clash with China is India’s biggest test
The midnight melee left 20 Indian soldiers dead with an unconfirmed number of casualties suffered by the PLA.

The world’s two largest armies did not fire a single shot. Instead, they fought with almost neanderthal tools such as stones, wire studded clubs, batons and fists to inflict brutal punishment on each other.

Indian army soldiers rest next to artillery guns at a makeshift transit camp before heading to Lada
Indian army soldiers rest next to artillery guns at a makeshift transit camp before heading to Ladakh, near Baltal, southeast of Srinagar, June 16, 2020. REUTERS/Stringer NO RESALES. NO ARCHIVES.
What happened on Jun 15 was not only odious but also wholly unexpected.

DISENGAGEMENT AND DE-ESCALATION

The clash occurred during the disengagement process agreed in the wake of high-level political negotiations between New Delhi and Beijing.

Beginning in late April, the PLA amassed substantial forces at several critical locations along the Sino-Indian border under the garb of high-altitude exercises in Tibet.

It also began constructing permanent bunkers in remote outposts at several locations along the LAC, which India considers its territory.

With alarm bells ringing in New Delhi, the Indian Army mobilised and confronted the PLA, mirroring deployments along the frontier.

However, India and China have devised several confidence building measures to address such contingencies, both at military and political class levels.

READ: Commentary: Is this the end of China’s peaceful rise?
The political dialogue finally resulted in a thaw on Jun 9, as both sides agreed to disengage and establish the status quo ante. Such disengagement is not unprecedented.

Since 2013, India and China have resolved similar situations on at least three separate occasions.

Moreover, the terms of engagement agreed under the Peace and Tranquillity Agreement of 1993 and the 1996 Boundary agreement prohibit the use of deadly force in settling the boundary dispute.

BREACH OF PAST AGREEMENTS

It was the breach of sanctity and confidence, both in the written agreements and the historical practice of peaceful disengagement, that rendered the incident at Galwan so shocking for the Indian leadership.

The killing of Indian soldiers has riled up anti-Chinese sentiment, both in the military and the political class.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi has warned China of a “befitting reply” and assured the Indian Army that the sacrifices made “will not go in vain.”

READ: Commentary: India grapples with COVID-19 migrant worker chaos
The Indian External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar has told his Chinese counterpart that Beijing was “directly responsible for the resulting violence and casualties” as PLA’s actions in Galwan valley were both “premeditated and planned.”

Confidence in Beijing’s intentions and sincerity is at its lowest ebb.

The sentiment that “China has broken all agreements signed with India since 1993,” as former Indian Ambassador to China Gautam Bambawale claimed, is shared widely.

Indian Minister of External Affairs Subrahmanyam Jaishankar speaks to the media after the 2019 U.S.
Indian Minister of External Affairs Subrahmanyam Jaishankar speaks to the media after the 2019 U.S.-India 2+2 Ministerial Dialogue at the State Department in Washington, U.S., December 18, 2019. REUTERS/Joshua Roberts/Files
On the other side, China too feels that India contravened the sanctity of their previous agreements. In his call with Jaishankar on Wednesday (Jun 17), Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi blamed Indian troops for provoking the current clashes as he said they had breached the LAC and violated their earlier consensus to de-escalate tensions in the regions.

“India should not make wrong calculations on the situation and not underestimate China’s determination to maintain its territorial integrity,” he reportedly said.

CHANGING THE TERMS OF ENGAGEMENT

The Indian military is also rethinking its options.

The Indian Army may have to revise its decades-old rules of engagement on the Sino-Indian border. Until now, its standard operating procedures outlined no use of deadly force against PLA troops but from hence on, self-defence and the uncertainty of Chinese action may entail a shooting match.

READ: Commentary: COVID-19 will redefine the meaning of national security
Escalation may not be limited to ground forces, however. Increased PLA air activity along the frontier may lead to engagement between the two air forces. In May, the Indian Air Force scrambled fighter jets to ward-off Chinese helicopters transgressing into Indian territory.

The escalation dynamics may also spread to the Indian Ocean. The Indian Navy believes that it has operational superiority over the Chinese Navy in the Indian Ocean region and will look to exert this superiority in future conflicts.

The current crisis has therefore not only transformed the nature of the Sino-Indian border dispute but also the character of military competition between the two Asian giants.

THE DAMAGE MAY NOT BE UNDONE

The consequences of Galwan will reverberate far and wide. The crisis could not have come at a more challenging period for Modi.

Already struggling with COVID-19 and an economic recession, the overwhelming feeling in India is that Beijing has stabbed it in the back.

The perception in New Delhi, as seen by Jaishankar’s comments, is that the unlawful occupation of territories along the contested border – a replication of its salami-slicing tactics employed in the South China Sea – is condoned at the highest level in Beijing,

The view that follows is that the bloodbath in Galwan is therefore not an accident engendered by passions of local PLA commanders but a forceful assertion of China’s territorial revanchism under Xi Jinping.

The post-clash rhetoric from Beijing has been equally threatening.

The PLA is continuously aggrandising forces in Tibet, and its military and political leaders have threatened India with devastating consequences if any attempt is made to dislodge PLA forces from occupied territories.

Protests in India against China following deadly clashes between the nuclear-armed neighbours in a
Protests in India against China following deadly clashes between the nuclear-armed neighbours in a disputed Himalayan region. (Photo: AFP/Sam Panthaky)
It will also mark the end of Modi’s personal diplomacy with Xi. After the 2017 Doklam crisis between both countries, Modi had initiated a high-level informal summit with Xi. The process, which began in Wuhan, is now practically dead.

The forthcoming Russia-India-China Trilateral dialogue is only the first casualty of the crisis. In all probability, diplomatic activities to celebrate 70 years of Sino-Indian bilateral relations this year will meet a similar fate.

INDIA’S OPTIONS ARE LIMITED

New Delhi’s options are limited. Military escalation may signal India’s resolve, but the gaps in military capability and power vis-à-vis China are formidable.

In the short-term, India will however will hold fort along the border.

The asymmetric economic interdependence between the two can provide India with some levers to pull.

On Wednesday (Jun 17), the Indian government cancelled 4G equipment contracts with Chinese telecommunications company ZTE Corporation. Huawei’s aim of getting a strong foothold in the Indian market is also hampered now.

The boycott of Chinese goods has started gaining traction among the Indian public.
 
Satellite images suggest Chinese activity at Himalayan border with India before clash
Indian Army convoy moves along a highway leading to Ladakh, at Gagangeer
An Indian Army convoy moves along a highway leading to Ladakh, at Gagangeer in Kashmir's Ganderbal district. (REUTERS/Danish Ismail)
19 Jun 2020 02:07AM
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NEW DELHI: In the days leading up to the most violent border clash between India and China in decades, China brought in pieces of machinery, cut a trail into a Himalayan mountainside and may have even dammed a river, satellite pictures suggest.

The images, shot on Tuesday, a day after soldiers engaged in hand-to-hand combat in the freezing Galwan Valley, show an increase in activity from a week earlier.

India said 20 soldiers were killed in a premeditated attack by Chinese troops on Monday night at a time when top commanders had agreed to defuse tensions on the Line of Actual Control (LAC), or the disputed and poorly defined border between the nuclear-armed neighbours.

READ: India says 20 soldiers killed in deadliest clash with China in decades
China rejected the allegations and blamed frontline Indian soldiers for provoking the conflict which took place at the freezing height of 4,300 metres in the western Himalayas.

The 4,056-kilometre border between India and China runs through glaciers, snow deserts and rivers in the west to thickly forested mountains in the east.

The Galwan Valley is an arid, inhospitable area, where some soldiers are deployed on steep ridges. It is considered important because it leads to the Aksai Chin, a disputed plateau claimed by India but controlled by China.

The satellite pictures, taken by Earth-imaging company Planet Labs and obtained by Reuters, show signs of altering the landscape of the valley through widening tracks, moving earth and making river crossings, one expert said.

The images shows machinery along the bald mountains and in the Galwan River.

"Looking at it in Planet, it looks like China is constructing roads in the valley and possibly damming the river," Jeffrey Lewis, director of the East Asia Nonproliferation Program at California’s Middlebury Institute of International Studies.

"There are a ton of vehicles on both sides (of the LAC) - although there appear to be vastly more on the Chinese side. I count 30-40 Indian vehicles and well over 100 vehicles on the Chinese side."

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said he was unaware of the specifics on the ground but reiterated that the Indian army had crossed into Chinese territory in several places in recent days and that they should withdraw.

BACKLASH

The clash was the most serious since 1967. Since early May, soldiers have faced off on the border where India says Chinese troops had intruded and set up temporary structures. The confrontation turned into a deadly brawl on Monday.

The fighting was triggered by a row over two Chinese tents and observation towers that India said had been built on its side of the LAC, Indian government sources in New Delhi and on the Indian side of the border in the Ladakh region said.

China had sought to erect a "structure" in the Galwan Valley on India's side of the LAC even after military officials had reached an agreement on Jun 6 to de-escalate, Indian Foreign Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar told China's senior diplomat, Wang Yi, in a phone call on Wednesday, the Indian Foreign Ministry said. It was not immediately clear to what structure he was referring.

The problem arose when an Indian patrol visited the area near a ridge to verify a Chinese assertion that its troops had moved back from the LAC, the two government sources aware of the military situation said.

The Chinese troops had thinned out and left behind the two tents and small observation posts. The Indian party demolished the towers and burnt the tents, the sources said.

The satellite images show possible debris from the observation posts on Tuesday morning on a ridge on India's side of the LAC. There was no such structure in the image taken a week earlier.

A large group of Chinese soldiers arrived and confronted the Indian troops, led by Colonel Santosh Babu. They were lightly armed in line with the rules of engagement at the LAC, one of the sources said.

India and China have not exchanged gunfire at the border since 1967, despite occasional flare-ups. Soldiers are under instructions to keep their rifles slung at their backs.

It was not clear what happened next, but the two sides soon clashed, with the Chinese using iron rods and batons with spikes, one of the sources said.

Colonel Babu was one of the 20 victims, they said. More Indian troops were rushed in and the confrontation turned into an hours-long brawl eventually involving up to 900 soldiers, the source said. Still no shots were fired on either side.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao rejected the Indian version of the events. "The rights and wrongs of this incident are very clear. The responsibility does not lie with China."

Source: Reuters
 
pic of stick from the battle. even with this the tiongs lost 2 men to 1. Hopeless

_112921094_eaxn56qu4aauh9i.jpg
 
Under normal circumstances. I would distrust the ah neh media of 50 dead tiong soldiers. however considering how quiet the tiongs have been. It just means the ah nehs are correct. The tiongs under normal circumstances will play up the death of the ah nehs if the tiongs did have the upper hand. But it just proves the tiongs were defeated in this round.
 
Ahneh cannot even get their own domestic racism right... want to fight with Chinese....

 
tanwahtiu said:
Ahneh cannot even get their own domestic racism right... want to fight with Chinese....

Click to expand...

she is actually a Tibetan ...Arunachal Pradesh is a territory long claimed by China ...and in the chinese map shown as part of China...and since china consider as it's territory these people do not need a visa to go to china

but on the fairer side ,at least India consider them citizens but not more than 300 million Muslims...Muslims have been in India for more than 1000 years and 99% are local converts...yet ,thousands are murdered and lately a law passed to male them stateless
 
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