If you're planning to renounce Singapore citizenship: A word of caution

[lost4wordz]

Great pointers. More or less the right way.

 

[cass888]

Is your retirement money worth the convenience of a red passport?

Put things in perspective. CPF is only $1,552.50 per month, and you can use 75% of that for your house. Over 20 years it's only $380k. Hardly close to "retirement money" wouldn't you say?

 

[Aussie Prick]

Oh my, some poor hen pecked soul who cant make it in the real world had to run back to mommy Singapore. And to boot is recommending you be a kiasu with a backup red passport.

Lots of problems with this. If you are never going to change your mindset you will never make it. Period.

 

[Leongsam]

that is very kum lan and naive.

This forum has been configured to "one nick per email address" from day one.

 

[fwchong]

$380K at current conversion rate, u can get you a fairly decent house with 2 living rooms, 3 bedrooms, a garage, a garden..some people even convert one of the living room as theatre system room...or instead of spending all the $380k at one go, you can leverage on mutlipying your houses...in SG, tell me how are you going to use your HDB to leverage back to get another property ????

 

[cass888]

$380K at current conversion rate, u can get you a fairly decent house with 2 living rooms, 3 bedrooms, a garage, a garden..some people even convert one of the living room as theatre system room...or instead of spending all the $380k at one go, you can leverage on mutlipying your houses...in SG, tell me how are you going to use your HDB to leverage back to get another property ????

Sorry, old man, that $200k (not even $350k) HDB flat has translated into enough surplus to pay for two properties. And there is surplus rental after paying for both (after using our monthly CPF contributions).

Rather than whining, do a bit of planning.

 

[fwchong]

your Maths fail or what ? SG$380K where did that convert to AU$200K with current exchange rate at

http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi?Amount=380000&From=SGD&To=AUD


380,000.00 SGD = 315,183.70 AUD
Singapore Dollars Australia Dollars
1 SGD = 0.829431 AUD 1 AUD = 1.20565 SGD

 

[cass888]

your Maths fail or what ? SG$380K where did that convert to AU$200K with current exchange rate at

http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi?Amount=380000&From=SGD&To=AUD


380,000.00 SGD = 315,183.70 AUD
Singapore Dollars Australia Dollars
1 SGD = 0.829431 AUD 1 AUD = 1.20565 SGD

MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan stop quoting things out of context. I was saying that even a S$200k HDB flat can be sold (after 6 years if you must know) for enough money for downpayments on TWO Singapore condos, with the rent on one paying for the mortgage on both.

 

[wrcboi]

Stay abroad every 5 years renew passport very hard meh???

its troublesome.......

 

[Aussie Prick]

MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan stop quoting things out of context. I was saying that even a S$200k HDB flat can be sold (after 6 years if you must know) for enough money for downpayments on TWO Singapore condos, with the rent on one paying for the mortgage on both.

That very interesting. Just wondering, this 200K HDB flat, is it owned outright after 6 years? Is there a mortgage on it? When you sell what is the nett gain?

And these 2 condos you can hypothetically purchase, does that include the downpayment on 2 condos? What % downpayment are you estimating based on valuation? The norm now is banks want an additional 15% down after the 1% and 4%. How about the conveyance charge? stamp duty? Contents insurance? Fire Insurance? Property tax? Managent Strata Fees? Maintenance?

Just trying to do the math here.....can you tell us how you are arriving at these figures?

 

[cass888]

That very interesting. Just wondering, this 200K HDB flat, is it owned outright after 6 years? Is there a mortgage on it? When you sell what is the nett gain?

And these 2 condos you can hypothetically purchase, does that include the downpayment on 2 condos? What % downpayment are you estimating based on valuation? The norm now is banks want an additional 15% down after the 1% and 4%. How about the conveyance charge? stamp duty? Contents insurance? Fire Insurance? Property tax? Managent Strata Fees? Maintenance?

Just trying to do the math here.....can you tell us how you are arriving at these figures?

The $200k flat was sold for $328k with about $120k cash and $140k CPF. Banks financed 80% of the 2 condos amounting to $1.1 million. Instalments on the $850k amount to about $2.5k to $3k a month.

Rental on the condo ranged between $1.9 to $2.5k. CPF available to pay that is $2.2k but because of the minimum sum rule we're able to CPF to pay only the 1st property so it's about $1.5k from CPF. That leaves $1.5k which the rental makes up.

You're right though. If you throw in the MCST fees you may be down up to $200 during bad rental months but when you consider the $150 HDB car park fee and $70+ S&C the net difference is still positive or at worst negligible.

Sums are easy when you're dealing with real numbers.

 

[Aussie Prick]

The $200k flat was sold for $328k with about $120k cash and $140k CPF. Banks financed 80% of the 2 condos amounting to $1.1 million. Instalments on the $850k amount to about $2.5k to $3k a month.

Rental on the condo ranged between $1.9 to $2.5k. CPF available to pay that is $2.2k but because of the minimum sum rule we're able to CPF to pay only the 1st property so it's about $1.5k from CPF. That leaves $1.5k which the rental makes up.

You're right though. If you throw in the MCST fees you may be down up to $200 during bad rental months but when you consider the $150 HDB car park fee and $70+ S&C the net difference is still positive or at worst negligible.

Sums are easy when you're dealing with real numbers.

That makes more sense. I was thinking of 1.5 Million in total purchase price but if the figure is 1.1M then its closer to your figures then.

Dont forget the unexpected costs like maintenace and the hassle of dealing with tenants. I have experienced some strange things out there......

 

[cass888]

That makes more sense. I was thinking of 1.5 Million in total purchase price but if the figure is 1.1M then its closer to your figures then.

Dont forget the unexpected costs like maintenace and the hassle of dealing with tenants. I have experienced some strange things out there......

Yes, agency fees, recalcitrant tenants etc.

So you may end up slightly out of pocket, but at the end of the day, you turned a HDB flat into two houses.

 

[cheongster123]

"I understand that once you take back your CPF, the SG govt will send you a nasty letter to ask you to get lost..."
surely you jest? what were the contents of this nasty letter?

not so easy to renew PR unless you stay 4 out of 5 years every batch of 5 years...so effectively, you are only in Singapore for 2 years out of 10 years.

what about your job then? quit every 1 year of 5 years of work and then all over again ?????

I understand that once you take back your CPF, the SG govt will send you a nasty letter to ask you to get lost...

so the KEY to survive is to be involve in a community and have friends and close knitted friend and you can survive...

 

[fwchong]

I have not seen that letter but I know a couple of friends who already renounce their SG citizenship says that if you make that decision to do so, dont be offended about that letter the SG govt will send you as it is written in a tone that is not so nice to read...

however, if you took a Australian citizen but did not ask to take your CPF out, you wont receive that letter...

"I understand that once you take back your CPF, the SG govt will send you a nasty letter to ask you to get lost..."
surely you jest? what were the contents of this nasty letter?

 

[Ash007]

I have not seen that letter but I know a couple of friends who already renounce their SG citizenship says that if you make that decision to do so, dont be offended about that letter the SG govt will send you as it is written in a tone that is not so nice to read...

however, if you took a Australian citizen but did not ask to take your CPF out, you wont receive that letter...

Growing up in Singapore, I've learned you must follow the rules, if not bad things happen to you. I also think from a personal level, if you take up another citizenship and the law states it doesn't allow dual citizenship, you should do the right thing. Be it gray, or non establish persecution in this case. A lot of people say you should keep your Singapore citizen in case you want to go back, blah blah blah this blah blah that. I think they are just uncommitted fools. If your family, work, life, are spend in a particular country, and you have enjoyed, received so much from it why keep something that you hardly use. Sentimental value? Money? Assets? I find that a lot of people that have stayed and even prosper in Australia kept their Singapore citizenship because they still have assets back home. Their kids, usually gave up and turned aussie as it makes more sense for them.

By the way, need the CPF to start buying assets here. Don't really care if the Sg govt send me warning, strongly worded letter or not. I say, ask them to screw themselves!

 

[cass888]

By the way, need the CPF to start buying assets here. Don't really care if the Sg govt send me warning, strongly worded letter or not. I say, ask them to screw themselves!

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[ManBearPig62]

The $200k flat was sold for $328k with about $120k cash and $140k CPF. Banks financed 80% of the 2 condos amounting to $1.1 million. Instalments on the $850k amount to about $2.5k to $3k a month.

Rental on the condo ranged between $1.9 to $2.5k. CPF available to pay that is $2.2k but because of the minimum sum rule we're able to CPF to pay only the 1st property so it's about $1.5k from CPF. That leaves $1.5k which the rental makes up.

Shrug. No big deal due to the uniquely Singapore situation:

1) Interest rates are deliberately kept low. Inflation is controlled using the currency exchange rate instead of interest rates.

2) Longer loan terms, which improve loan servicability on a short term basis but increase the total risk over the lifetime of the loan.

3) The rental market caters to foreigners, hence the ridiculously high rents commensurate with expat incomes which make properties positively geared off the bat.

The problem is, you're not the only one who can do this. Which makes for a highly speculative market, imo - people keep buying because it appears so easy to service the loans. They get caught up in the euphoria and forget about their long term fundamentals. Not necessarily talking about you here.

We'll see how long the credit tap can flow.

I was just having a look at the condo statistics, 750K condo renting for 2.8-3K a month, assuming a 600K loan that's 6% yield with surplus rent of 24K.

Makes me wonder why doesn't every HDB owner sell their flats and speculate in condos.

 

[Ash007]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

No worries mate.

 

[redbull313]

I have not seen that letter but I know a couple of friends who already renounce their SG citizenship says that if you make that decision to do so, dont be offended about that letter the SG govt will send you as it is written in a tone that is not so nice to read...

however, if you took a Australian citizen but did not ask to take your CPF out, you wont receive that letter...

Funny they never sent me a letter. If they did I would have framed it and put it in my toilet.