• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

I hope recession for 20 years at least

downgrader

Alfrescian
Loyal
NO I haven't gone mad. Let me explain.

I really hope this recession will be prolonged, so that one, people will become less obsessed with consumerism and two, the population will slowly decline to make Singapore a more livable place.

I realise that this may sound counter-intuitive or even cruel to some, but in my worldview, money does not determine the quality of life beyond the basics of living.

Rising GDP does not equal rising quality of life if you have to squeeze like sardines on transport and if there is hardly any space on the beach at weekends; if people have no time for each other and are in a constant rush, not knowing how to enjoy a sunset or sunrise or a simple conversation.

I do not buy material things to show off because I am comfortable with own identity.

I only buy what I need for basic survival and simple food too, nothing fancy, except on a few special occasions.

My hobbies - playing guitar, cycling, reading books in the library - are all almost free and are very healthy for both body and mind.

Do I make sense now?
 

Meltdown

Alfrescian
Loyal
This 2nd Great Depression will last at least 10 years. It can last as long as 20 years or even longer.

It really depends on how the politicians and central bankers try to 'fix' their countries' economies. The longer they keep on injecting new money into their economies, the longer this 2nd Great Depression will last, HAHAHA :-)

Most of the world's middle class population will be wiped out! What will be left in the aftermath of this 2nd Great Depression will be the old rich, who are already extremely filthy rich, will get even richer. And the rest of the world's population will become poor unless they know how the game is being rigged and played. Depressions are just part of an economic cycle to legally transfer wealth from the ignorant poor, ignorant middle class, and ignorant new rich to the old rich who's running the show.
 
Last edited:

red amoeba

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
actually depends. this recession if prolong, have the ability to wipe out all gains made by countries (save except China) in the past decade or so. Singapore for one, will suffer tremendously as our export dries out.

Our internal market is minute - if there is no export, there is no trade and there is nothing for us. No income, everyone leaves (hurray!) but the stark reality is that there is also no jobs for us. Put aside the influx of FTs first, there will be no jobs, or the number of jobs will drastically reduce - and we are back into the 80s or worse.

Crime will be high and social tension will rise (as if it is not brewing now) - because by then, the only people that are well off will be those in the government sectors and a small number of people in high positions. In short, Singapore will be worse off with the prolonged recession. We are already fucked compared to countries in the region who can at least depend on oil (Indon and Malaysia) and agriculture (Thailand) to make a living.

Just yesterday, it was announced that we have 70,000 ppl jobless (that is according to official stats). This morning, Taiwan was reportedly to have 60,000 jobless and the situation is called dire. Now, how can Taiwan and Singapore, both termed as the worst casulty in the region but Taiwan with its larger population base have a better unemployment rate than Singapore?
 

red amoeba

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
the rich will no doubt hold PR but they will be here either with a front or physically - there will still be money to be made, legally or not - but the normal pee-sais will be left out there hanging dry.
 

Ah Guan

Alfrescian
Loyal
Uncle downgrader,

A global recession is unlikely to last for 20 years because human greed is too strong and memory is too short. Somewhere someone will hatch a money-out-of-nothing scheme again and suckers will believe in it.

The only way recession will last for 20 years is if a catastrophe big enough disrupts the economic system - asteroid, earthquake, tsunami or nuclear fallout... Human race will have to rebuild after that.
 

Conan the Barbarian

Alfrescian
Loyal
NO I haven't gone mad. Let me explain.

I really hope this recession will be prolonged, so that one, people will become less obsessed with consumerism and two, the population will slowly decline to make Singapore a more livable place.

I realise that this may sound counter-intuitive or even cruel to some, but in my worldview, money does not determine the quality of life beyond the basics of living.

Rising GDP does not equal rising quality of life if you have to squeeze like sardines on transport and if there is hardly any space on the beach at weekends; if people have no time for each other and are in a constant rush, not knowing how to enjoy a sunset or sunrise or a simple conversation.

I do not buy material things to show off because I am comfortable with own identity.

I only buy what I need for basic survival and simple food too, nothing fancy, except on a few special occasions.

My hobbies - playing guitar, cycling, reading books in the library - are all almost free and are very healthy for both body and mind.

Do I make sense now?

I too yearn for a better Singapore, where we all have the time to smell the flowers.

Unfortunately, by the 10th year of recession, there would not be anything left for even basic survival in Singapore as we would be too poor and may have to depend on foreign aid just to prevent starving. Inflation will be so high that your Singapore dollar is probably worthless by then.

The rich would have parked their money in other currencies and live well despite everything, except they have to watch out everyday as crime rate soars.

Those with nothing to lose will be more apt to commit crime and those who have enough will emigrate to other countries.

Your vision of a better Singapore will not arise even if the recession last 20 years. It will be better if we simply stop adding people to our small island and grow at a smaller and more sustainable pace. Perhaps in 20 years, we can have a better quality life without all the inherent ugliness we see everyday now.
 

miosux

Alfrescian
Loyal
Just yesterday, it was announced that we have 70,000 ppl jobless (that is according to official stats). This morning, Taiwan was reportedly to have 60,000 jobless and the situation is called dire. Now, how can Taiwan and Singapore, both termed as the worst casulty in the region but Taiwan with its larger population base have a better unemployment rate than Singapore?

because the 70k number includes all the useless indian and chinese PRs we've been letting in.
 

miosux

Alfrescian
Loyal
Your vision of a better Singapore will not arise even if the recession last 20 years. It will be better if we simply stop adding people to our small island and grow at a smaller and more sustainable pace. Perhaps in 20 years, we can have a better quality life without all the inherent ugliness we see everyday now.

bro, gov said, in 20 years, we'll have 900,000 people above 65 yrs old. if population remains at 4M, that means 25% are usless old farts (including me) who can only clean toilets and work for min wages at macs.

we're in a catch-22 here man. no way out. the PAP has doomed us. if you got money, better make plans to evac from this country. if not, go learn to become fisherman, coz we're going to go back to kampung fishing village days. and there is NOTHING PAP can do to prevent this, only delay it.
 

red amoeba

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
bro, gov said, in 20 years, we'll have 900,000 people above 65 yrs old. if population remains at 4M, that means 25% are usless old farts (including me) who can only clean toilets and work for min wages at macs.

we're in a catch-22 here man. no way out. the PAP has doomed us. if you got money, better make plans to evac from this country. if not, go learn to become fisherman, coz we're going to go back to kampung fishing village days. and there is NOTHING PAP can do to prevent this, only delay it.
our government has plans for you - imagine shipping all 900K to JB...wow...
 

Meltdown

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear downgrader,

Your hope will come true.

Watch what Jim Rogers says in this video. He says an even greater depression is coming!!!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dGCvEJTG0Qg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dGCvEJTG0Qg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Welcome to The 2nd Great Depression! We ain't seen nothing yet thus far.
 

Conan the Barbarian

Alfrescian
Loyal
bro, gov said, in 20 years, we'll have 900,000 people above 65 yrs old. if population remains at 4M, that means 25% are usless old farts (including me) who can only clean toilets and work for min wages at macs.

we're in a catch-22 here man. no way out. the PAP has doomed us. if you got money, better make plans to evac from this country. if not, go learn to become fisherman, coz we're going to go back to kampung fishing village days. and there is NOTHING PAP can do to prevent this, only delay it.

If everything is fine, it doesn't really matter if 25% are above 65. Notice how many 65 yr olds are perfectly healthy and functioning nowadays. However, if things get worse, there will not be enough drink cans for old folks to collect nor enough people to buy tissue paper from them (us) haha.

The best solution for people who are not filthy rich is to keep their savings in various foreign currencies and if the worse comes, at least there is enough money to go start or retire somewhere. Savings in Sing$ is too risky should the worst happen.
 

jw5

Moderator
Moderator
Loyal
NO I haven't gone mad. Let me explain.

I really hope this recession will be prolonged, so that one, people will become less obsessed with consumerism and two, the population will slowly decline to make Singapore a more livable place.

I realise that this may sound counter-intuitive or even cruel to some, but in my worldview, money does not determine the quality of life beyond the basics of living.

Rising GDP does not equal rising quality of life if you have to squeeze like sardines on transport and if there is hardly any space on the beach at weekends; if people have no time for each other and are in a constant rush, not knowing how to enjoy a sunset or sunrise or a simple conversation.

I do not buy material things to show off because I am comfortable with own identity.

I only buy what I need for basic survival and simple food too, nothing fancy, except on a few special occasions.

My hobbies - playing guitar, cycling, reading books in the library - are all almost free and are very healthy for both body and mind.

Do I make sense now?
How old will you be in 20 years time? Do you have enough money to last that long?
I do agree with some of your post, but not all of it.
 

downgrader

Alfrescian
Loyal
URL: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/26793903/the_big_takeover

Rollingstone.com

The Big Takeover

The global economic crisis isn't about money - it's about power. How Wall Street insiders are using the bailout to stage a revolution

MATT TAIBBI

Posted Mar 19, 2009 12:49 PM

It's over — we're officially, royally fucked. no empire can survive being rendered a permanent laughingstock, which is what happened as of a few weeks ago, when the buffoons who have been running things in this country finally went one step too far. It happened when Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner was forced to admit that he was once again going to have to stuff billions of taxpayer dollars into a dying insurance giant called AIG, itself a profound symbol of our national decline — a corporation that got rich insuring the concrete and steel of American industry in the country's heyday, only to destroy itself chasing phantom fortunes at the Wall Street card tables, like a dissolute nobleman gambling away the family estate in the waning days of the British Empire.

The latest bailout came as AIG admitted to having just posted the largest quarterly loss in American corporate history — some $61.7 billion. In the final three months of last year, the company lost more than $27 million every hour. That's $465,000 a minute, a yearly income for a median American household every six seconds, roughly $7,750 a second. And all this happened at the end of eight straight years that America devoted to frantically chasing the shadow of a terrorist threat to no avail, eight years spent stopping every citizen at every airport to search every purse, bag, crotch and briefcase for juice boxes and explosive tubes of toothpaste. Yet in the end, our government had no mechanism for searching the balance sheets of companies that held life-or-death power over our society and was unable to spot holes in the national economy the size of Libya (whose entire GDP last year was smaller than AIG's 2008 losses).

So it's time to admit it: We're fools, protagonists in a kind of gruesome comedy about the marriage of greed and stupidity. And the worst part about it is that we're still in denial — we still think this is some kind of unfortunate accident, not something that was created by the group of psychopaths on Wall Street whom we allowed to gang-rape the American Dream. When Geithner announced the new $30 billion bailout, the party line was that poor AIG was just a victim of a lot of shitty luck — bad year for business, you know, what with the financial crisis and all. Edward Liddy, the company's CEO, actually compared it to catching a cold: "The marketplace is a pretty crummy place to be right now," he said. "When the world catches pneumonia, we get it too." In a pathetic attempt at name-dropping, he even whined that AIG was being "consumed by the same issues that are driving house prices down and 401K statements down and Warren Buffet's investment portfolio down."

Liddy made AIG sound like an orphan begging in a soup line, hungry and sick from being left out in someone else's financial weather. He conveniently forgot to mention that AIG had spent more than a decade systematically scheming to evade U.S. and international regulators, or that one of the causes of its "pneumonia" was making colossal, world-sinking $500 billion bets with money it didn't have, in a toxic and completely unregulated derivatives market.

Nor did anyone mention that when AIG finally got up from its seat at the Wall Street casino, broke and busted in the afterdawn light, it owed money all over town — and that a huge chunk of your taxpayer dollars in this particular bailout scam will be going to pay off the other high rollers at its table. Or that this was a casino unique among all casinos, one where middle-class taxpayers cover the bets of billionaires.

People are pissed off about this financial crisis, and about this bailout, but they're not pissed off enough. The reality is that the worldwide economic meltdown and the bailout that followed were together a kind of revolution, a coup d'état. They cemented and formalized a political trend that has been snowballing for decades: the gradual takeover of the government by a small class of connected insiders, who used money to control elections, buy influence and systematically weaken financial regulations.

The crisis was the coup de grâce: Given virtually free rein over the economy, these same insiders first wrecked the financial world, then cunningly granted themselves nearly unlimited emergency powers to clean up their own mess. And so the gambling-addict leaders of companies like AIG end up not penniless and in jail, but with an Alien-style death grip on the Treasury and the Federal Reserve — "our partners in the government," as Liddy put it with a shockingly casual matter-of-factness after the most recent bailout.

As chief of the New York Fed, Geithner helped orchestrate the Goldman-friendly AIG bailout and the secretive Maiden Lane facilities used to funnel funds to the dying company. Neither did it look good when Geithner — himself a protégé of notorious Goldman alum John Thain, the Merrill Lynch chief who paid out billions in bonuses after the state spent billions bailing out his firm — picked a former Goldman lobbyist named Mark Patterson to be his top aide.

In fact, most of Geithner's early moves reek strongly of Paulsonism. He has continually talked about partnering with private investors to create a so-called "bad bank" that would systemically relieve private lenders of bad assets — the kind of massive, opaque, quasi-private bureaucratic nightmare that Paulson specialized in. Geithner even refloated a Paulson proposal to use TALF, one of the Fed's new facilities, to essentially lend cheap money to hedge funds to invest in troubled banks while practically guaranteeing them enormous profits.

God knows exactly what this does for the taxpayer, but hedge-fund managers sure love the idea. "This is exactly what the financial system needs," said Andrew Feldstein, CEO of Blue Mountain Capital and one of the Morgan Mafia. Strangely, there aren't many people who don't run hedge funds who have expressed anything like that kind of enthusiasm for Geithner's ideas.

As complex as all the finances are, the politics aren't hard to follow. By creating an urgent crisis that can only be solved by those fluent in a language too complex for ordinary people to understand, the Wall Street crowd has turned the vast majority of Americans into non-participants in their own political future. There is a reason it used to be a crime in the Confederate states to teach a slave to read: Literacy is power. In the age of the CDS and CDO, most of us are financial illiterates. By making an already too-complex economy even more complex, Wall Street has used the crisis to effect a historic, revolutionary change in our political system — transforming a democracy into a two-tiered state, one with plugged-in financial bureaucrats above and clueless customers below.

The most galling thing about this financial crisis is that so many Wall Street types think they actually deserve not only their huge bonuses and lavish lifestyles but the awesome political power their own mistakes have left them in possession of. When challenged, they talk about how hard they work, the 90-hour weeks, the stress, the failed marriages, the hemorrhoids and gallstones they all get before they hit 40.

"But wait a minute," you say to them. "No one ever asked you to stay up all night eight days a week trying to get filthy rich shorting what's left of the American auto industry or selling $600 billion in toxic, irredeemable mortgages to ex-strippers on work release and Taco Bell clerks. Actually, come to think of it, why are we even giving taxpayer money to you people? Why are we not throwing your ass in jail instead?"

But before you even finish saying that, they're rolling their eyes, because You Don't Get It. These people were never about anything except turning money into money, in order to get more money; valueswise they're on par with crack addicts, or obsessive sexual deviants who burgle homes to steal panties. Yet these are the people in whose hands our entire political future now rests.

Good luck with that, America. And enjoy tax season.

[From Issue 1075 — April 2, 2009]
 

downgrader

Alfrescian
Loyal
How old will you be in 20 years time? Do you have enough money to last that long?
I do agree with some of your post, but not all of it.

I live for the now, I don't worry about ten years in the future

I keep fit and I am very slim.

Although I am getting old, I can still beat many of the youngsters because I time 2.4 km run the most 11 minutes 30 seconds

So I don't think healthcare is a problem

If really suay then let heaven take me

I can play guitar or teach lessons for a living until I am very old. If no money to pay me also never mind, just buy me lunch for a week.
 

scoobyhoo

Alfrescian
Loyal
if the situation was worse such that it would be down for 20 years, then this would cause social unrest and even wars.
 

scoobyhoo

Alfrescian
Loyal
I live for the now, I don't worry about ten years in the future

I keep fit and I am very slim.

Although I am getting old, I can still beat many of the youngsters because I time 2.4 km run the most 11 minutes 30 seconds

So I don't think healthcare is a problem

If really suay then let heaven take me

I can play guitar or teach lessons for a living until I am very old. If no money to pay me also never mind, just buy me lunch for a week.

yes. care for our own health is most important. perhaps frequent love making is also essential for a healthy and happy living?
 

miosux

Alfrescian
Loyal
If everything is fine, it doesn't really matter if 25% are above 65. Notice how many 65 yr olds are perfectly healthy and functioning nowadays. However, if things get worse, there will not be enough drink cans for old folks to collect nor enough people to buy tissue paper from them (us) haha.

The best solution for people who are not filthy rich is to keep their savings in various foreign currencies and if the worse comes, at least there is enough money to go start or retire somewhere. Savings in Sing$ is too risky should the worst happen.

having large % of old folks will reduce our tax base. but maybe that's why they moving towards the GST model of a direct tax on consumption.

the best solution is to move to JB like khaw said. i chope mersing first.
 
Top