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Human Rights - Minimum Wage & Modern Slavery
- Thread starter Goh Meng Seng
- Start date
I doubt that our companies can pay that much. In this case it would be rightly so that more of the foreign workers will go to Canada or any other places that pay higher for the same job.
As a market correction, to get some of these workers, the salary will have to be increased?
I believe the topic of minimum wage will be a hot issue next year.
More and more white collar types are forced into doing blue collar type jobs.
From salaries up to 8k, now they have to "bite the bullet" and earn $1000.
How great is that!
During 97 crises alot of graduate went into commision based jobs like MLM, restaurant coupon packages, credit card pushers and so on. But this time no such luck, every industry is fuck.
I see lots of graduates applying for waitress jobs but are turn down because they cannot compete with chinagirl and pinoys who are earning less than 1k.
Sinkees are so use not giving a damn about low wage workers, now they are the low wage worker themselves.
More and more white collar types are forced into doing blue collar type jobs.
From salaries up to 8k, now they have to "bite the bullet" and earn $1000.
How great is that!
During 97 crises alot of graduate went into commision based jobs like MLM, restaurant coupon packages, credit card pushers and so on. But this time no such luck, every industry is fuck.
I see lots of graduates applying for waitress jobs but are turn down because they cannot compete with chinagirl and pinoys who are earning less than 1k.
Sinkees are so use not giving a damn about low wage workers, now they are the low wage worker themselves.
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I agree with you that companies here cannot pay that much.
The difference between Canada and sinkapore is company profits in Canada goes to their staff first.
Company profits in peesai goes more to employers who have greedy landlords( goberment).
Take for example service charge. It suppose to replace tips in peesai but employers do not disperse them to staff.
That is why peesai service sucks.
I am new at this picture thing. Forgive me.
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Indeed, it is really the case when economy boom, many Singaporeans did not enjoy the booming pie. Most of the booming benefits go to the wealthy, powerful and well-connected.
And we have people who oppose minimum wage with feeble reasoning and understanding of the situation on the ground.
If the country goes on like this, it will turn into an ultra-capitalist system whereby the rich will get richer, the poor will only become mere digits of the economy.
Goh Meng Seng
And we have people who oppose minimum wage with feeble reasoning and understanding of the situation on the ground.
If the country goes on like this, it will turn into an ultra-capitalist system whereby the rich will get richer, the poor will only become mere digits of the economy.
Goh Meng Seng
I am new at this picture thing. Forgive me.
i disagree
a minimum wage will have little impact to singaporeans
how many ppl r u speaking 4 mr goh?
i understand your sentiments as a, socialist, but we have bigger problems to worry about. minimum wage may encourage ppl to drop out of school early and miss out on a degree for example
to lift ppl out of poverty we could do different like lower taxation, or cpf contribution or even consider more economic handout.
a minimum wage will have little impact to singaporeans
how many ppl r u speaking 4 mr goh?
i understand your sentiments as a, socialist, but we have bigger problems to worry about. minimum wage may encourage ppl to drop out of school early and miss out on a degree for example
to lift ppl out of poverty we could do different like lower taxation, or cpf contribution or even consider more economic handout.
Dear pfingo,
I understand where you are coming from and I have already qualify, talking about minimum wage will not get me votes in Singapore!
But, that's the catch. You are acting like PAP who digitized human beings. Never mind about these people if they are the minority?
Minimum wage may not affect many people, only 1% maybe? But it is significant for a country developing into a First World country. The intrinsic values that we past on as a nation to many children of future generation, is tremendous. It is a belief of human decency. A belief based on EQUALITY and FAIRNESS to everyone contributing to the whole country's development, be it Singaporeans or foreigners.
We are just too used to the PAP talk of dollar and cents but not the SENSE of the Nation. It may look insignificant to many people here, but it means a lot for a Nation to set its footing RIGHT on basic respect to human decency.
The Americans always feel proud of their country, most of the time, due to the CORE VALUES that their forefathers have set in their constitution. Do our country, no matter how small it is, have any CORE VALUES to start with?
Surprisingly, yes, it's all there but the fact is, PAP has been drifting away from the very CORE VALUES set in our constitution and National Pledge.
Minimum Wage is not just about dollar and cents, not only about how many people will benefit. But it is about setting the basic fundamental core values for our nation in rejecting exploitation of honest, hard working people on this land.
Goh Meng Seng
The thousands of low wage workers now compared to future dropouts ?
Lower taxation,cpf contribution and more economic handout? Fucking hell, isn't implementing minimum wage much easier?
The amount of money that will be wasted on administration is stupidity.
The only people that miss out on a degree are the thousands of NON dropouts la.
You are forgetting that in two years casinos, prostitutes, gangs,pimps, money laundering will roam the streets and you are worried about minimum wages corrupting the youths.
You must be kidding.
mr goh,
it is noble for your cause then that you see light for these 1% - i have no further comment on that
mr chupa,
that specific example is just one of many why i think minimum wage will not work.
what distinguishes a hooker from house A to Z if everyone charges the same price? Which angle then are employers being competitive? cut their comm, or increase the price, ...and doesn't that lead to inflation? These r again diff examples. In current economic conditions a minimum wage will have more ppl jobless
i dun understand why we try to close the gap bewteen rich and poor? both sides also present their own problems.
i dun think it is right to say all men are created equally and SHOULD be given equal opportunity?
hasn't economic growth under capitalism lead to democratisation previously?
it is noble for your cause then that you see light for these 1% - i have no further comment on that
mr chupa,
that specific example is just one of many why i think minimum wage will not work.
what distinguishes a hooker from house A to Z if everyone charges the same price? Which angle then are employers being competitive? cut their comm, or increase the price, ...and doesn't that lead to inflation? These r again diff examples. In current economic conditions a minimum wage will have more ppl jobless
i dun understand why we try to close the gap bewteen rich and poor? both sides also present their own problems.
i dun think it is right to say all men are created equally and SHOULD be given equal opportunity?
hasn't economic growth under capitalism lead to democratisation previously?
This might be a good thing and solve our skill-economy mismatch problem.
A degree means nothing at all if it doesn't equip you to survive in the current market. Just ask any electrical engineer in the semi-con industry who's been retrenched more than once in his career.
Listen to yourself. So afraid of hdb uncle earning a decent wage at Macdonalds.
How pathetic.
they r take care off by other means. dun comment on what u dun know...r u working there that u know their benefits?
everyones got problems
minimum wage also prompts lazyness and complacency
i hear ppl say things like "dun care bout my job end month get pay can liao" - not scary meh?
Minimum wage jobs are dependent on the hours one works. If one worker is lazy and don't put in the hours, they won't earn much, if at all, and will get sacked eventually.
Those who work hard will put in more hours of work, and gets paid more. And he or she would be able to set aside more money for night classes, skills upgrading and for education expenses for kids- if they have kids at home.
And besides, lawyers, and doctors don't need minimum wage. That has been what GMS has been saying. And I can verify this because Australia has the same policy for those who are in blue collar jobs(either retirees, uni students, lowly educated), and doesn't apply that for those who are in white collar jobs.
they r take care off by other means. dun comment on what u dun know...r u working there that u know their benefits?
everyones got problems
Dun need to be a rocket scientist to know the peanuts and non benefits that peesai employers pay.
using Aussie as an example is not really comparing apple with apple
as for mr chupa, i'm done talking with u. it's wasting time with your non-partisan views
pfingo;119369 [B said:
Dear pfingo,
I find your above statements intriguing.
If the market is truly efficient and there are true balance of powers within the system, there will still be rich and poor. All is relative. True about that.
However, there is one absolute thing: whether there are exploitation by the rich on the poor that will make them richer while the poor more poor.
It is a well known fact that PERFECT Free Market only exists in text books because although the principle assumptions of Free Market is very simple, yet it is very difficult to have such assumptions implemented in real world.
You may think that I am trying to close the income gap "artificially", but this itself is RELATIVE. If the real world is left to work on its own, what will happen is the polars of the rich and the poor will GROW WIDER. It grew wider not because of "EXCEPTIONAL DIFFERENCES" between the skill factors, intelligence, intrinsic biological merits of human beings but merely due to inherited or implied "social influence and powers" that comes along with wealth, status and network connections.
Just state one simple example, one can be a mediocre idiot that is born into a wealthy family. All it needs is for the man to inherit properties with regular rental income to maintain a lavish lifestyle. The man could use his network built by the family to make money much easier than anyone else.
There is no such thing as "equal opportunities" for all because opportunities vary according to different social class status. It would mean that the rich will get richer while it will be more difficult for those at the bottom of the social class to upgrade themselves.
Education used to be a means of providing equal opportunities, but I think the present system does not provide that any more. Well, I shall leave this topic for another day.
What I aim to do is not about closing income gaps. Mistake me not, that's not my intention at all. As long as men and women are born differently, there will bound to be difference in abilities and income disparity.
However, the basic fundamental is that the society or econmic system cannot be left alone in the guise of "Free Market" when we know REAL Free Market hardly exists at all. because asymmetric information, influence, networking etc etc will deter the development of the TEXT BOOK Free Market.
My baseline is simple, the system cannot be skewed towards in such a direction that when the rich get richer, while the poor cannot earn enough to lead a decent life. I have no problem of the rich getting richer as long as the vulnerable group of people, the lowest percentile of the social-economic segment, is not pushed towards poverty with no jobs that could offer them a "living wage" and savings for retirement. This "living wage" is relative in different societies. For example, in countries with big agriculture sector and land, the living wage can be very small because they could basically live off their land. But in a matured urban society like Singapore, this is not possible and naturally, the living wage will be higher than those other countries with big agricultural land.
Interesting enough that you have made your last statement that Economic growth under capitalism has led to democratisation. This may not be always true you.
Singapore is a prime example.
In fact, I think there is a potential danger for ultra-capitalism to lead the whole political spectrum into a vicious cycle of power and influences being monopolized by the few wealthy families who could afford to invest in the political field. Ironically, we will be going round in circles and what we will get is pseudo-democracy in the end, which is in fact a monopoly of power by the few in the guise of democratic process.
In fact, the populace has been brain washed into thinking along that line of only ELITES should be acceptable to become MPs or voted into the democratic power centre--parliament or Congress. Elitism should not be mixed by meritocracy. Meritocracy in politics is about those who will represent the different classes of people best, should be elected into a real democratic power house. But in Singapore's context, we equate a paper qualification with the ability as a politician!
Just ask yourself frankly, would you accept a non-graduate to be your MP? Why not? We have always been subtlely brain washed to believe that only those with at least a degree would be "talented" as parliamentarians. If this is what capitalist democratic system is all about, then it is not going to provide a really representative democratic system.
In a very crude way, I would say that for every social class in the society, there should be adequate representation in the parliament for their interests. Thus, for the high percentage of non-graduates, we should have people who could empathize with their aspirations, worries, problems etc etc.
However, with the "capitalized democracy", we end up is a bunch of "political elites" who could be totally lost touch with the populace that they are supposed to represent! Is this real deomcracy we want from the capitalized system?
Goh Meng Seng
How is it not different? S'pore rightfully, is a developed nation claimed by the PAP, and so why are we comparing still with our neighbours, and trying to compete on wage levels with China and India?
Since we are developed, our competitors are the US, Australia, the UK, Western Europe, fellow developed Asian countries and places and Canada. As such our labour, political and certain social policies can be compared and contrasted with these countries.
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