Port Dickson, Tampin, Kluang...even now without HSR, these towns were already bypassed.
No one driving up and down to KL will visit them unless you make a detour. Port Dickson, I understand but Tampin and Kluang??
-
IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here. The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.
HSR and RTS Discussion
- Thread starter wolverine23
- Start date
Port Dickson, Tampin, Kluang...even now without HSR, these towns were already bypassed.
No one driving up and down to KL will visit them unless you make a detour. Port Dickson, I understand but Tampin and Kluang??
No vested interest. The writer is also not optimistic about Singapore properties.
He is stating his views purely from the facts and figures he has regarding Iskandar.
The EdgeProperty.com. Very interesting read all about HSR.
http://dbv47yu57n5vf.cloudfront.net/s3fs-public/pullout/20160902_ep_2241_lowres_locked.pdf
http://dbv47yu57n5vf.cloudfront.net/s3fs-public/pullout/20160902_ep_2241_lowres_locked.pdf
For a single track system, Tebrau shuttle departs from JB to SG at 530, 6, 630, 7, 830. Arguably, you can still slot 730 and 8.
Half an hour turnaround is about right. Not sure if 15 mins turnaround is possible though, given the single track.
KL-Bangkok HSR link extension to be studied
BANGKOK: Malaysia and Thailand have agreed to begin preliminary studies on extending the High Speed Rail link from Kuala Lumpur to Bangkok.
Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak and his Thai counterpart Prayut Chan O Cha also agreed to study the possibility of rail connectivity by linking the electrified double track railway between Hatyai-Padang Besar and Padang Besar-between Thailand and Malaysia. In a bilateral meeting between the two leaders on Friday, the Thai side took note of the proposed High Speed Rail link from Kuala Lumpur to Bangkok.
Both leaders agreed for the relevant agencies to begin preliminary discussions at the exploratory level to extend the HSR link from Kuala Lumpur to Bangkok.
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2016/09/09/malaysia-thailand-agree-to-extend-high-speed-rail-link-from-kl-to-bangkok/
BANGKOK: Malaysia and Thailand have agreed to begin preliminary studies on extending the High Speed Rail link from Kuala Lumpur to Bangkok.
Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak and his Thai counterpart Prayut Chan O Cha also agreed to study the possibility of rail connectivity by linking the electrified double track railway between Hatyai-Padang Besar and Padang Besar-between Thailand and Malaysia. In a bilateral meeting between the two leaders on Friday, the Thai side took note of the proposed High Speed Rail link from Kuala Lumpur to Bangkok.
Both leaders agreed for the relevant agencies to begin preliminary discussions at the exploratory level to extend the HSR link from Kuala Lumpur to Bangkok.
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2016/09/09/malaysia-thailand-agree-to-extend-high-speed-rail-link-from-kl-to-bangkok/
The Bangkok / KL link is more important to China as it will ultimately link China all the way thru Indo-China to Singapore to complete their One Road One Belt ambition.
The length of this track is more than 4 to 5 times that of SG/KL, so cost will be also very much more.
So, who is actually initiating this proposal is not hard to guess.
Last edited:
Haha, i think you think too much la. "Lose money every year, who foot bill" issue more to private company concern. Initially YTL wanted to build it, if they do the math and dont see any sense, they will definitely scrap it. But isnt this government initiative? Do you think gov, do the math...count count count, cant make money...and scrap it? And i deeply believe your math do not include a lot of others things, why other countries still build it although mostly losing money?
Good example is Twin tower, i would say waste a lot of money....if given a chance for me to decide, after looking back, will i still build it? Yes, because first, country and city image, i would say it is actually well spent, this sort of thing, sometime you want to spend but not necessary got impact. Second is tourism money, how to quantify that? Money that earn in the country may not directly given to Twin tower to offset their building cost...but overall gov can gain back on tax money right.
OK, now this is what i think you missed, even if they make loss in ticket sale. 1) improve people/traffic flow, korea, spain, taiwan all built theirs using that as their primary reason. 2) come on, they got new city (ok you are going with your ghost town in making story again). Bandar malaysia, pagoh university town, to gerbang nusajaya, malaysia gov, through their sovereignty wealth fund making money back on real estate. Even UEM, who own gerbang nusajaya, owned by khazanah, can you see now how they make the money back? make economic sense to you now?? 3) bigger market overall and that will mean tax revenue $$, again, the way they make back the money may not as directly as tickets sale, but eventually they will make more with the multiplier effect. 4) political risk, if study say loss money, BN scrap it, ppl will be disappointing, and ruling party still want to hold election?
Anyway, even if the feasibility study say will lose money badly, gov lose money like making free road liddat....will they make it? You are intelligent, tell me your answer.
http://phtv.ifeng.com/a/20151003/41485206_0.shtml
核心提示：中国高铁每公里的基础设施单位建设成本是1700万到2100万美元，相比之下日本和欧洲是2500万到3800万美元，美国是很高的是5600万美元，也就是说只要花三分之一日本高铁的预算就能买到中国制造的高铁。......
那么中国高铁为什么成本低呢，有分析认为原因有三个，一是人工的成本低，二是大批量生产制造的成本摊薄，三是产业链集中，其实不仅是在建设上，在高铁的运营上中国也是逐渐积累了经验，2015年1月才开通三年的京沪高铁宣布盈利12亿元，不要小看这个12亿元，因为目前全世界盈利的高铁线路只有两条，那就是日本的东海到新干线和法国到法国巴黎到里昂的TZV的东南线。那么谈到高铁呢，我们也不能不说到这个高铁的技术的知识产权，曾几何时中国被广泛的指责，没有自己的核心高铁技术，从2006年开始呢，国家层面就开始筹划在引进消化吸收之后中国要有自己的高铁技术，2008年2月26日，中国高速铁路自主创新联合行动计划出台，成果是显著的。在2011年呢，美国曾经对中国一个型号的高铁列车进行过知识产权调查，历时半年多结论是通过对934项专利的系统分析，中国这个高铁和世界各国在美国申报的专利并不冲突，这也是中国高铁能够走向美国的关键。
If using China highest cost to build 340KM (ie high bridge all the journey), 7.1B USD for 340km. Jakarta-Bandung (142.3 kilometers) contract is 5 B USD, indonesia gov not guarantee the loan.... so if malaysia gov guarantee the loan, got discount?
KL-Singapore high speed railway signing postponed
The bilateral agreement on the high-speed rail (HSR) link between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur will be signed as scheduled by the end of the year, “most likely” around Dec 21, said a Malaysian minister on Thursday (Dec 1).
http://www.todayonline.com/singapor...ly-be-signed-around-dec-21-malaysian-minister
The bilateral agreement on the high-speed rail (HSR) link between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur will be signed as scheduled by the end of the year, “most likely” around Dec 21, said a Malaysian minister on Thursday (Dec 1).
http://www.todayonline.com/singapor...ly-be-signed-around-dec-21-malaysian-minister
Good news. One step at a time. Hope for more info during the annual retreat this month.
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2014
- Messages
- 487
- Points
- 18
What could possibly go wrong till signing of agreement?
Anything that can go wrong can go wrong.
Since they cannot even fix a date for such an important event and only can say something like "most likely", go figure.
http://www.thestar.com.my/metro/com...er-daily-hassle-when-travelling-to-singapore/
I really hope KTM comes up with a solution. The new system is a joke!
I really hope KTM comes up with a solution. The new system is a joke!
Dear, you are dealing with a Malaysian operated system, you just have to be patience, be very patience and wait hopefully.
PM Lee to witness signing of KL-Singapore high-speed rail agreement in Malaysia
By Lim Jia Qi Posted 12 Dec 2016 18:00 Updated 12 Dec 2016 20:38
SINGAPORE: Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong will visit Putrajaya in Malaysia on Tuesday (Dec 13), where he and Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak will witness the signing of a bilateral agreement for the Kuala Lumpur-Singapore High-Speed Rail (HSR).
The agreement will be signed by Coordinating Minister for Infrastructure and Minister for Transport Khaw Boon Wan and Malaysia's Minister in the Prime Minister's Department Abdul Rahman Dahlan at the 7th Malaysia-Singapore leaders’ retreat, the Singapore Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) said in a statement on Monday.
“The signing of the bilateral agreement is a culmination of intensive bilateral discussions since the 2013 leaders’ retreat, and furthers the good progress made by both sides since the signing of the Memorandum of Understanding in July 2016.”
It added that the signing of the bilateral agreement also demonstrates the two governments’ commitment to the project.
Slated for completion by 2026, the high-speed rail is expected to cut travel time between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur to about 90 minutes. The line will run for 350km, with 335km in Malaysia and 15km in Singapore.
There will be eight stations in total, with the two terminal stations at Jurong East in Singapore and Bandar Malaysia in Kuala Lumpur.
When completed, the HSR will boost connectivity, strengthen economic ties and strengthen people-to-people linkages, said the PMO.
Mr Lee will be accompanied by Mrs Lee and several Cabinet ministers besides Mr Khaw. This includes Deputy Prime Minister and Coordinating Minister for National Security Teo Chee Hean, Minister for Foreign Affairs Vivian Balakrishnan, Minister for Culture, Community and Youth Grace Fu, Minister for National Development Lawrence Wong, Minister for Environment and Water Resources Masagos Zulkifli and Minister for Education (Schools) Ng Chee Meng.
Also part of the delegation: Senior Minister of State for Finance and Law Indranee Rajah, Senior Minister of State for Home Affairs and National Development Desmond Lee and Minister of State for Health Lam Pin Min.
- CNA/jq
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...-of-kl-singapore-high-speed-rail/3357502.html
By Lim Jia Qi Posted 12 Dec 2016 18:00 Updated 12 Dec 2016 20:38
SINGAPORE: Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong will visit Putrajaya in Malaysia on Tuesday (Dec 13), where he and Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak will witness the signing of a bilateral agreement for the Kuala Lumpur-Singapore High-Speed Rail (HSR).
The agreement will be signed by Coordinating Minister for Infrastructure and Minister for Transport Khaw Boon Wan and Malaysia's Minister in the Prime Minister's Department Abdul Rahman Dahlan at the 7th Malaysia-Singapore leaders’ retreat, the Singapore Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) said in a statement on Monday.
“The signing of the bilateral agreement is a culmination of intensive bilateral discussions since the 2013 leaders’ retreat, and furthers the good progress made by both sides since the signing of the Memorandum of Understanding in July 2016.”
It added that the signing of the bilateral agreement also demonstrates the two governments’ commitment to the project.
Slated for completion by 2026, the high-speed rail is expected to cut travel time between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur to about 90 minutes. The line will run for 350km, with 335km in Malaysia and 15km in Singapore.
There will be eight stations in total, with the two terminal stations at Jurong East in Singapore and Bandar Malaysia in Kuala Lumpur.
When completed, the HSR will boost connectivity, strengthen economic ties and strengthen people-to-people linkages, said the PMO.
Mr Lee will be accompanied by Mrs Lee and several Cabinet ministers besides Mr Khaw. This includes Deputy Prime Minister and Coordinating Minister for National Security Teo Chee Hean, Minister for Foreign Affairs Vivian Balakrishnan, Minister for Culture, Community and Youth Grace Fu, Minister for National Development Lawrence Wong, Minister for Environment and Water Resources Masagos Zulkifli and Minister for Education (Schools) Ng Chee Meng.
Also part of the delegation: Senior Minister of State for Finance and Law Indranee Rajah, Senior Minister of State for Home Affairs and National Development Desmond Lee and Minister of State for Health Lam Pin Min.
- CNA/jq
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...-of-kl-singapore-high-speed-rail/3357502.html
Singapore, Malaysia sign bilateral agreement for High-Speed Rail project
By Lim Jia Qi Posted 13 Dec 2016 17:16 Updated 13 Dec 2016 18:50
PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia: A legally binding bilateral agreement that paves the way for the implementation of the Singapore-Kuala Lumpur High-Speed Rail (HSR) project was signed by both countries on Tuesday (Dec 13).
The HSR lines in Singapore and Malaysia are to be linked by a bridge over the Straits of Johor with a height clearance of 25m above the water level, it was revealed in the agreement.
Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak witnessed the signing ceremony at the Prime Minister’s Office in Putrajaya. The agreement was signed by Coordinating Minister for Infrastructure and Minister for Transport Khaw Boon Wan and Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Abdul Rahman Dahlan.
Speaking at a joint press conference with Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak, Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said there is a strong political will and focus from Singapore and Malaysia to ensure the HSR project is done right and is a success.
Mr Lee added that the HSR line will transform the way the two countries interact, socialise and do business, for the better.
The HSR is a marquee project and the signing of the bilateral agreement marks a significant milestone in Singapore relations with Malaysia, he said.
“It gives both sides greater stake in keeping relations strong and positive,” Mr Lee added.
The project is slated for completion in 2026, and Mr Najib said that both sides were committed to the deadline. "It's about 10 years, but as you know, (given) the size of this project, the complexity of this project, 10 years is a relatively short period of time, which means we have to work very closely together," he said.
"We are looking forward to its implementation according to schedule and we think that we will be able to deliver it according to the timeline we've committed to, between the two sides."
The bilateral agreement came after the two neighbouring countries signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on the 350km rail project in July. Of the entire rail system, 15km will lie in Singapore and 335km in Malaysia.
It will have eight stations between Singapore and Malaysia with the two terminal stations at Jurong East in Singapore and Bandar Malaysia in Kuala Lumpur. The other six stations will be at Seremban, Ayer Keroh, Muar, Batu Pahat and Iskandar Puteri.
SEAMLESS TRAVEL
The HSR is expected to cut travel time between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur to 90 minutes. Customs, Immigration and Quarantine (CIQ) facilities will also be co-located at Singapore, Bandar Malaysia and Iskandar Puteri. This means that international passengers will only need to undergo both Singapore and Malaysia CIQ clearance at the point of departure.
Singapore and Malaysia will call for a joint tender for an international operator to run the KL-Singapore express service and the cross-border shuttle service between Iskandar Puteri. Meanwhile, Malaysia will also put up a tender for a domestic operator to run the domestic service within the country.
Another joint tender for a privately financed assets company to operate and maintain rail assets will also be called by the two countries next year.
After the signing of the agreement, a bilateral committee comprising representatives from both countries will be formed to manage aspects of the project which might impact cross-border services.
Both governments will each take responsibility for developing, constructing and maintaining the civil infrastructure and stations within their own countries. It will be undertaken by MyHSR Corporation and the Land Transport Authority in Malaysia and Singapore, respectively.
The joint tender for the system will open in the fourth quarter of next year and the two countries are expected to make a decision on who to award the rail system to by the end of 2018.
A Joint Development Partner (JDP) will also be appointed in early 2017 to assist in the development of the HSR project after a tender was called in August this year.
The JDP will provide advice on operational, technical and procurement matters relating to the high speed railway systems and operations.
- CNA/jq
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...al-agreement-for-high-speed-rail/3363164.html
By Lim Jia Qi Posted 13 Dec 2016 17:16 Updated 13 Dec 2016 18:50
PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia: A legally binding bilateral agreement that paves the way for the implementation of the Singapore-Kuala Lumpur High-Speed Rail (HSR) project was signed by both countries on Tuesday (Dec 13).
The HSR lines in Singapore and Malaysia are to be linked by a bridge over the Straits of Johor with a height clearance of 25m above the water level, it was revealed in the agreement.
Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak witnessed the signing ceremony at the Prime Minister’s Office in Putrajaya. The agreement was signed by Coordinating Minister for Infrastructure and Minister for Transport Khaw Boon Wan and Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Abdul Rahman Dahlan.
Speaking at a joint press conference with Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak, Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said there is a strong political will and focus from Singapore and Malaysia to ensure the HSR project is done right and is a success.
Mr Lee added that the HSR line will transform the way the two countries interact, socialise and do business, for the better.
The HSR is a marquee project and the signing of the bilateral agreement marks a significant milestone in Singapore relations with Malaysia, he said.
“It gives both sides greater stake in keeping relations strong and positive,” Mr Lee added.
The project is slated for completion in 2026, and Mr Najib said that both sides were committed to the deadline. "It's about 10 years, but as you know, (given) the size of this project, the complexity of this project, 10 years is a relatively short period of time, which means we have to work very closely together," he said.
"We are looking forward to its implementation according to schedule and we think that we will be able to deliver it according to the timeline we've committed to, between the two sides."
The bilateral agreement came after the two neighbouring countries signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on the 350km rail project in July. Of the entire rail system, 15km will lie in Singapore and 335km in Malaysia.
It will have eight stations between Singapore and Malaysia with the two terminal stations at Jurong East in Singapore and Bandar Malaysia in Kuala Lumpur. The other six stations will be at Seremban, Ayer Keroh, Muar, Batu Pahat and Iskandar Puteri.
SEAMLESS TRAVEL
The HSR is expected to cut travel time between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur to 90 minutes. Customs, Immigration and Quarantine (CIQ) facilities will also be co-located at Singapore, Bandar Malaysia and Iskandar Puteri. This means that international passengers will only need to undergo both Singapore and Malaysia CIQ clearance at the point of departure.
Singapore and Malaysia will call for a joint tender for an international operator to run the KL-Singapore express service and the cross-border shuttle service between Iskandar Puteri. Meanwhile, Malaysia will also put up a tender for a domestic operator to run the domestic service within the country.
Another joint tender for a privately financed assets company to operate and maintain rail assets will also be called by the two countries next year.
After the signing of the agreement, a bilateral committee comprising representatives from both countries will be formed to manage aspects of the project which might impact cross-border services.
Both governments will each take responsibility for developing, constructing and maintaining the civil infrastructure and stations within their own countries. It will be undertaken by MyHSR Corporation and the Land Transport Authority in Malaysia and Singapore, respectively.
The joint tender for the system will open in the fourth quarter of next year and the two countries are expected to make a decision on who to award the rail system to by the end of 2018.
A Joint Development Partner (JDP) will also be appointed in early 2017 to assist in the development of the HSR project after a tender was called in August this year.
The JDP will provide advice on operational, technical and procurement matters relating to the high speed railway systems and operations.
- CNA/jq
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...al-agreement-for-high-speed-rail/3363164.html
Attachments
Last edited:
Singapore-JB Rapid Transit System to be linked via high bridge over Straits of Johor
By Lim Jia Qi Posted 13 Dec 2016 18:31 Updated 13 Dec 2016 18:57
PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia: The Rapid Transit System (RTS) link connecting Singapore and Johor Baru will be connected via a high bridge, the prime ministers of Singapore and Malaysia announced on Tuesday (Dec 13) in a joint news conference after the signing of a bilateral agreement on the high-speed rail (HSR) project.
"We've settled on a high-bridge crossing. This was a major point - how are we going to cross the Straits of Johor - (a) high bridge, low bridge (or) tunnel," said Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. "That clears the way for us to work towards a bilateral agreement which I hope we can sign by the end of next year.
The RTS link will adopt Singapore's Thomson-East Coast line system, including its signaling system, rolling stock, communication system and integrated supervisory control system. Explaining the rationale for this, Mr Lee said it would reap economies of scale.
The train system was first announced in 2010. Subsequently, Singapore confirmed that its RTS terminus will be sited at Woodlands North Station, along the Thomson-East Coast MRT line. Malaysia has also chosen Bukit Chagar as the main terminal for the RTS.
"Visitors can clear immigration in Johor Baru, get on the RTS, come to Singapore and transfer to the MRT seamlessly and vice versa," said Mr Lee.
“This will further enhance our connectivity and benefit thousands who commute regularly between Singapore and JB,” Mr Lee added.
A tender was called in 2011 to conduct an engineering study on the RTS link, which aimed to develop possible alignments and proposals for the system.
"When they come to fruition, there will be more exchanges between our people and our ties will grow closer," said the Prime Minister.
TRIENNAL CULTURAL SHOWCASE
To enhance bilateral ties between the two countries, Mr Lee announced that there will be a cultural showcase every three years. Artists from both sides of the causeway will come together to showcase their works.
Mr Lee said the triennial showcase is timely as both countries build on the success of Titian Budaya held in Kuala Lumpur last year. Titian Budaya, which means "cultural bridge" in Malay, was a three-month cultural showcase which saw participants from various art forms such as music, theatre, dance and film performing together.
The triennial cultural showcase will further cultural cooperation between both countries, said Mr Lee, adding that the relations between Singapore and Malaysia must be more than just economic and transactional.
“Ultimately it is about the friendship between our leaders and our peoples. Art and culture play an important role here.”
The showcase will be held in conjunction with future leaders’ retreats.
- CNA/dt
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...tem-to-be-linked-via-high-bridge/3364180.html
By Lim Jia Qi Posted 13 Dec 2016 18:31 Updated 13 Dec 2016 18:57
PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia: The Rapid Transit System (RTS) link connecting Singapore and Johor Baru will be connected via a high bridge, the prime ministers of Singapore and Malaysia announced on Tuesday (Dec 13) in a joint news conference after the signing of a bilateral agreement on the high-speed rail (HSR) project.
"We've settled on a high-bridge crossing. This was a major point - how are we going to cross the Straits of Johor - (a) high bridge, low bridge (or) tunnel," said Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. "That clears the way for us to work towards a bilateral agreement which I hope we can sign by the end of next year.
The RTS link will adopt Singapore's Thomson-East Coast line system, including its signaling system, rolling stock, communication system and integrated supervisory control system. Explaining the rationale for this, Mr Lee said it would reap economies of scale.
The train system was first announced in 2010. Subsequently, Singapore confirmed that its RTS terminus will be sited at Woodlands North Station, along the Thomson-East Coast MRT line. Malaysia has also chosen Bukit Chagar as the main terminal for the RTS.
"Visitors can clear immigration in Johor Baru, get on the RTS, come to Singapore and transfer to the MRT seamlessly and vice versa," said Mr Lee.
“This will further enhance our connectivity and benefit thousands who commute regularly between Singapore and JB,” Mr Lee added.
A tender was called in 2011 to conduct an engineering study on the RTS link, which aimed to develop possible alignments and proposals for the system.
"When they come to fruition, there will be more exchanges between our people and our ties will grow closer," said the Prime Minister.
TRIENNAL CULTURAL SHOWCASE
To enhance bilateral ties between the two countries, Mr Lee announced that there will be a cultural showcase every three years. Artists from both sides of the causeway will come together to showcase their works.
Mr Lee said the triennial showcase is timely as both countries build on the success of Titian Budaya held in Kuala Lumpur last year. Titian Budaya, which means "cultural bridge" in Malay, was a three-month cultural showcase which saw participants from various art forms such as music, theatre, dance and film performing together.
The triennial cultural showcase will further cultural cooperation between both countries, said Mr Lee, adding that the relations between Singapore and Malaysia must be more than just economic and transactional.
“Ultimately it is about the friendship between our leaders and our peoples. Art and culture play an important role here.”
The showcase will be held in conjunction with future leaders’ retreats.
- CNA/dt
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...tem-to-be-linked-via-high-bridge/3364180.html
The high bridge (not low bridge) design was selected. Why? I can only speculate that it is to allow the prospect of bigger boats to pass underneath? And maybe (just maybe) the possibility that the causeway may one fine day be replaced (otherwise why contemplate shipping in the straits)? Just my guess...
Similar threads
