Serious Hokkiens should take pride in this 下西洋，不能没有福建人

[ginfreely]

Hokkiens contributed greatly to Cheng ho sea exploration during Ming dynasty due to Hokkiens' expertise in seafaring and ship building.

Cheng ho (Zheng He) went for seven times sea exploration voyages, Hokkiens supported him in labour, materials and monetary support. After Cheng ho died, the eighth exploration voyage was also completed by Hokkiens.

http://fjr.mnwww.com/paper.asp?Aid=193&Fid=47

下西洋，不能没有福建人作者： 时间：2014-11-06 字体【小 中 大】
闽南之窗(福建人杂志)独家报道：福建丰富的森林资源，为造船提供了充足的原材料;发达的手工业生产，为远航提供了可靠的物资保障;天然良港长乐，是郑和指定的驻泊基地和开洋起点;领先于国内外的航海术，为下西洋提供了有力的技术支撑……
郑和七次下西洋，福建不管是在人力、物力、财力上，都给予了极大的支持;闽籍的水手、船工们，在历次的远洋航行中扮演了重要的角色;甚至郑和去世后的第八次下西洋，也是由福建人来完成。下西洋的壮举，郑和可以缺席，而福建人不可或缺。

 

[ginfreely]

Although the Cheng​ ho sea exploration voyage starting point was Jiangsu, all the ships needed​ to go to Fujian Taiping harbour to get them ready for sailing into the ocean.

郑和下西洋，从江苏太仓港起锚，但每一次都要到福建长乐太平港五虎门“候风开洋”。长乐，是其驻泊基地和开洋起点。

 

[ginfreely]

When they returned successfully from each voyage, the soldiers with great contribution would be awarded and there were 22 Hokkien soldiers on record for receiving such awards​. And the ships were steered by Hokkiens too.

八下西洋的福建人
600多年前，在郑和下西洋的庞大船队中，汇聚了大批福建籍的优秀航海人才，其中尤以泉州和厦门两地为多，还有不少是长乐人。《闽书·武军志》载：“下西洋师返时，闽中从征将士升赏有差。”士兵立功者，有记载姓名的福建籍人士就有22人。
郑和下西洋时，首先考虑的便是从福建选拔所需航海技术人才。
“欲用福船，须雇福建人驾驶”，郑和曾在福建“选取在驾船民梢中有经惯下海者，称为火长，用作船师，乃以针经图式付与领执，专一料理，事大责重”。充当郑和船队的武装人员，则多从福建卫所官兵中抽调。当时“从者之众，随师远航”。

 

[ginfreely]

Cheng ho sea exploration during Ming dynasty was very big scale sailing across Indian ocean, SEA, red sea, East Africa etc and reached more than 30 countries. The biggest expedition had a fleet of more than 200 ships.

永乐三年(1405年)至宣德八年(1433年)，三宝太监郑和率领庞大舟师七次下西洋，“涉沧溟十万余里”，行程远至于东南亚、印度洋、红海以及东非30多个国家和地区，规模最大的一次统领船只200多艘、官兵2.7万人，是中国航海史上光辉的一页。

 

[ginfreely]

Hokkiens had always been known for good seafaring skills since Song dynasty as fishermen and traders. And due to the huge forest, has good resources to build ships. Fujian was always China centre for ship building since Song dynasty.

海洋自古就是“闽人之田”，沿海百姓以海为田，出海捕捞，驾舟出国，通商贸易，系其主要职业。宋元以来，福建的航海术一直领先于国内外，西洋对闽人来说，并非神秘的海域。
福建有广大山区，丰富的森林资源，为发展造船业提供了物质基础;另一方面，从宋元以来，福建就一直是中国的海船制造中心，长乐是最早的造船地点，泉州也是福建有名的造船旧址。这些地方所造的“福船”船底深尖，吃水较深，纵有大浪，不易摇晃。郑和船队中相当一部分船只就是这种“福船”。

 

[ginfreely]

Hokkiens are really very misunderstood. So much achievement in sea exploration and big involvement in China trading (read the ketchup origin story) since 600 years ago.

 

[ginfreely]

If China was not united like Europe last time, Hokkien (Fujian) might have been a country that sailed to America!

 

[ginfreely]

If China was not united like Europe last time, Hokkien (Fujian) might have been a country that sailed to America!

Whole world history could have been re written!

 

[desmondquek]

Whole world history could have been re written!

Australia & NZ some much closer to China, yet it was colonized by the Brits.

 

[ginfreely]

Australia & NZ some much closer to China, yet it was colonized by the Brits.

Of course. China sea exploration voyages were never meant to colonize other countries. Instead China treated them as cultural exchange of silk for local products. And don't forget the last voyage was 1430s before China closed door. So China must first be disunited then like Europe - for Fujian to be a separate country - to have a different policy to have colonized Australia and NZ.

郑和下西洋，官方目的是“宣德化柔远人”、开辟“经济大海”，每到一地都以中国的丝绸换取当地特产，或馈赠当地国王，以美丽的丝绸为纽带，与亚洲各国进行经济文化交流。

 

[ginfreely]

2000 ships were built and rebuilt during Ming dynasty sea voyages era. That's alot!

“支费浩繁荣，库藏为虚”，是终止下西洋的直接原因。据粗略统计，明永乐年间，新建和改建了约2000艘海船。另据计算，每只宝船造价约五六千银两，由此可见，下西洋船舶耗资之巨。

 

[frenchbriefs]

oh yeah sure,fuckkiens love to travel and sail the seas,so tell me one thing,why is there not a single City Wok,or Fatty Wang Zai or Poo Poo Platter or Fat Kok chain restaurant in the world?

why is A&W and Mcdonalds and white castle the first restaurants to go international?in fact the first international corporation i could think of was Dutch East india company.

have u heard of any famous chinese restaurant chain in the OBOR during the Tang dynasty?

 

[ginfreely]

oh yeah sure,fuckkiens love to travel and sail the seas,so tell me one thing,why is there not a single City Wok,or Fatty Wang Zai or Poo Poo Platter or Fat Kok chain restaurant in the world?

why is A&W and Mcdonalds and white castle the first restaurants to go international?in fact the first international corporation i could think of was Dutch East india company.

have u heard of any famous chinese restaurant chain in the OBOR during the Tang dynasty?

Well i guess from this article that there's no such concept as company with shareholders in old China. It is a western invention like the example you quoted Dutch east India company. In order to have big chains of restaurants or MNCs set up during Tang or Ming or whatever dynasty, you need to have this company system for people to be able to have access to funds to do that. And since there was no such system in China, individual traders could not do that, not just hokkiens, you fucktonese too. And that's why great Chinese hero Lin Zexu advocated then for Chinese to open the eyes and mind to learn the west system in order to deal with the west.

http://finance.sina.cn/?sa=t74d4591974v39&from=wap&vt=4

公司:现代社会最伟大的发明
2010-10-11 15:36 上海国资
评论
　　现代社会最伟大的发明就是有限责任公司！即使蒸汽机和电气的发明也略逊一筹
　　周放生/文
　　中央电视台最近播出了十集大型电视纪录片《公司的力量》，第一次用电视的方式，对公司发展的历史进行了解读。片中一个重要的观点就是“真正缔造了现代社会的是股份有限公司”。
　　哥伦比亚大学校长尼古拉斯-巴特勒曾经说过：“现代社会最伟大的发明就是有限责任公司！即使蒸汽机和电气的发明也略逊一筹。”
　　公司制的历史意义
　　公司的产生对人类社会真有那么大的作用吗？在我们过去受教育的概念里，只有新的科学技术才是发明，作为一种经济组织的公司，怎么能称得上发明？而且是最伟大的发明呢？
　　历史已经证明，公司制度的发明，极大地推动了人类社会的经济发展。铁路和运河的修建，都需要大量资金，问题是如何筹集这些资金？股份有限公司的出现，就成为筹集资金最有效的方式。

 

[frenchbriefs]

Well i guess from this article that there's no such concept as company with shareholders in old China. It is a western invention like the example you quoted Dutch east India company. In order to have big chains of restaurants or MNCs set up during Tang or Ming or whatever dynasty, you need to have this company system for people to be able to have access to funds to do that. And since there was no such system in China, individual traders could not do that, not just hokkiens.

cmon,we all know thats not why the corporations were invented,thats not its purpose.

u telling me in the history of mankind,there were no individuals,no merchants or traders,no kings or aristocrats rich enough to own a bunch of restaurants?we heard of stories of people in ancient history that were insanely wealthy worth hundreds of billions in today's dollars from Mansa musa.Jakob fugger to Howqua.

 

[ginfreely]

cmon,we all know thats not why the corporations were invented,thats not its purpose.

u telling me in the history of mankind,there were no individuals,no merchants or traders,no kings or aristocrats rich enough to own a bunch of restaurants?we heard of stories of people in ancient history that were insanely wealthy worth hundreds of billions in today's dollars from Mansa musa.Jakob fugger to Howqua.

These people are rich by birth/title and by owning land in their country. Just like old China then also had rich people. But you asked why no famous chain of restaurants like McDonald's - in OBOR during tang dynasty - well becos no merchant would be rich enough to do this kind of chain of restaurants alone, you need a company shareholder with limited risk system to access funds for the expansion to chain and spread out risks like what the article said and that's why Dutch East India was the first MNC international company as you said. As for China emperor or big landlord rich enough, they were not interested and not the ones travelling overseas to do such business.

Of course the emperor could also have provided the seed money to start up the chain of restaurants then just like how the Dutch East India company started, with govt funding, if the emperor was ambitious enough. But as you can see, China emperor was only interested in doing cultural exchange during sea voyage and not ambitious enough to set up trading posts like the angmohs did.

 

[frenchbriefs]

These people are rich by birth/title and by owning land in their country. Just like old China then also had rich people. But you asked why no famous chain of restaurants like McDonald's - in OBOR during tang dynasty - well becos no merchant would be rich enough to do this kind of chain of restaurants alone, you need a company shareholder with limited risk system to access funds for the expansion to chain and spread out risks like what the article said and that's why Dutch East India was the first MNC international company as you said. As for China emperor or big landlord rich enough, they were not interested and not the ones travelling overseas to do such business.

Of course the emperor could also have provided the seed money to start up the chain of restaurants then just like how the Dutch East India company started, with govt funding, if the emperor was ambitious enough. But as you can see, China emperor was only interested in doing cultural exchange during sea voyage and not ambitious enough to set up trading posts like the angmohs did.

i believe there were merchants and traders in ancient history who were even richer than kings and monarchs themselves,some of them richer and more powerful than countries and kings and royalty,jakob fugger was one,and not all of them were born rich or came from royalty,some of them were from the commoner or peasant class.

and the people of the past were even richer than bill gates of today,vanderbilt for example owned 1 out of every 20 dollar in circulation in america,putting his wealth at 200 billion in today's standards.this types of wealth was only possible because anti monopoly laws did not exist back then.Howqua the fuckkien was one of the richest man in the world,he owned several million silver dollars,several times more than the richest man in america.he was a monopolist like rockefeller.

 

[Liquigas]

Hokkiens are really very misunderstood. So much achievement in sea exploration and big involvement in China trading (read the ketchup origin story) since 600 years ago.

The southern Chinese as a group (not just the Hokkiens) has achieved quite a lot and deserved more recognition and respect especially from the Mandarin speaking northern Chinese. However, the northerners are feeling superior all the time and consider their northern language and customs to be more sophisticated and do not take the southerners seriously. Also, the northerners regard the southern Chinese to be not of pure Han Chinese stock but a hybrid race the result of centuries of intermixing between Han settlers from north/central China and the native people living in south China.

The original inhabitants in south China are the Bai Yue people where 2,000 years ago have already established their own little kingdoms in south China far away from the warring states - Min Yue in Fujian and Nan Yue in Guangdong and Guangxi. Another sub-group occupied the area in what is today northern Vietnam. So actually the Vietnamese and southern Chinese are close relatives.

 

[ginfreely]

i believe there were merchants and traders in ancient history who were even richer than kings and monarchs themselves,some of them richer and more powerful than countries and kings and royalty,jakob fugger was one,and not all of them were born rich or came from royalty,some of them were from the commoner or peasant class.

and the people of the past were even richer than bill gates of today,vanderbilt for example owned 1 out of every 20 dollar in circulation in america,putting his wealth at 200 billion in today's standards.this types of wealth was only possible because anti monopoly laws did not exist back then.Howqua the fuckkien was one of the richest man in the world,he owned several million silver dollars,several times more than the richest man in america.he was a monopolist like rockefeller.

Howqua was born in 1769, while China closed door after last voyage in 1430s. That explains why.

 

[ginfreely]

The southern Chinese as a group (not just the Hokkiens) has achieved quite a lot and deserved more recognition and respect especially from the Mandarin speaking northern Chinese. However, the northerners are feeling superior all the time and consider their northern language and customs to be more sophisticated and do not take the southerners seriously. Also, the northerners regard the southern Chinese to be not of pure Han Chinese stock but a hybrid race the result of centuries of intermixing between Han settlers from north/central China and the native people living in south China.

The original inhabitants in south China are the Bai Yue people where 2,000 years ago have already established their own little kingdoms in south China far away from the warring states - Min Yue in Fujian and Nan Yue in Guangdong and Guangxi. Another sub-group occupied the area in what is today northern Vietnam. So actually the Vietnamese and southern Chinese are close relatives.

Yeah South China Chinese definitely achieved alot. I don't know about Cantonese​, but by Song dynasty, Hokkien province was successful in overseas trade and biggest harbour in the East. In terms of education, produced top 1 number of scholars who passed exam in WHOLE CHINA, and top 2 number of top position scholars in WHOLE CHINA as per Wikipedia.

"宋朝时福建的经济文化达到鼎盛。海外贸易发达，泉州成为东方第一大港，是海上丝绸之路的起点。文教方面，两宋（淳祐二年，即1242年以前）福建共产生进士5,986名，状元19名，分居全国第一、第二。"

Looks like south China Chinese kena sabotaged by Qin Shihuang who united China and conquered Min Yue guo 闽越国. Who knows if left as a country alone Hokkien would have sailed to America and not be locked up and seafaring talent wasted/restricted by stupid China closed door policy. Anyway what's the point of united China when North thinks they are superior to South and within south, Cantonese thinks they are superior to Hokkien? And united until all no ambition left to expand like what the Europeans did. Ended up decaying until rotten.

闽越国 编辑

主条目：闽越国和闽中郡
福建古代为百越的一支古闽族（七闽）所居住之地。

公元前306年，越国被楚国消灭，越王无彊被杀，越国贵族与居民向南迁徙并与福建的百越古闽族融合成闽越族。

公元前220年，秦朝在统一中原七国的隔年，开始入侵南方的越地。闽越族亦被征服

https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/福建历....85.83334.E5.B9.B4.E4.BB.A5.E5.89.8D.EF.BC.89

 

[ginfreely]

Lai lai lai Hokkiens learn about your glorious achievements since Song to Ming dynasties. Don't let slanderous tongues hide the golden the truths.