• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Serious Good Brahmin Explains CECA From Brahmin's View Point! Totally Exposes Racist LMW And His Lousy School Education!

JohnTan

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Joined
Oct 30, 2014
Messages
36,768
Points
113
I have been living in Singapore for over 4 years after moving here from India. For the most part, I have nothing but praise for Singapore. The city is beautiful and clean, the governance and organisation are great and public facilities are excellent. I especially admire the public transport system and the NLBs.

However, one thing that has been troubling me (especially in recent times) is the growing anti-Indian sentiment, not only against foreigners but also against locals. The recent incidents against Indians may have been prompted by an underlying animosity towards foreigners (worsened due to Covid 19) but in the end, more Indian-Singaporeans were on the receiving end of these racist attacks rather than Indian expats. The misinformation surrounding CECA is the primary reason for this in my opinion.

While I completely understand the rationale behind reviewing and updating policy/agreements periodically, singling out CECA out of all 26 FTAs seems racially motivated. In essence, I believe the increase in the number of Indians in high paying jobs after the policy was introduced is the primary issue. Some things I want to address about this:

Indians are not getting unrestricted access into Singapore
- The Singapore Government has not opened the country's borders to every single Indian. The agreement doesn't allow any Indian to come and leave Singapore whenever they feel like it or whenever they need extra cash. No one is exempt from the usual procedures involved. Taking the case of Intra Corporate Transfers, the company first decides how many employees they need here or whether they even need employees over here.

Look at it from their perspective: why spend so much money to relocate an employee and their family to a more expensive country, pay them a higher salary, offer them reimbursement for living expenses, housing etc. when they can do the same work in their current location?

Indian companies are not simply bringing over people here because they want their employees to have a better quality of life, they are doing it because it is essential for the operations in the region. Then once the company approves the transfer, the employee has to apply for a work pass and fulfil the government's conditions. After all that a work pass is issued, typically for 2-3 years and it may or may not be renewed. So the notion that all Indians from those 127 occupations have free access to Singapore is false.

This trend is not unique to Singapore- Indians are not waiting in lines outside the airport to get into the next plane to Singapore and take jobs from locals.

There has been a large movement of Indians to all sorts of foreign countries, from the Middle East to the West and of course East Asia and Oceania. There are quite a few reasons for the recent "surge" in migrations. Firstly India underwent economic reforms in the 1990s ("liberalisation") to open itself to the world. Once India opened herself there was a mass migration to developed countries; especially the US and UK. People wanted a better quality of life, a competent government, and good quality education. The increased migration to Singapore may have occurred later on due to most people not knowing Singapore was a developed nation. Everyone wanted to move to the US; Hollywood saw to that.

Singapore was, and is, relatively unknown compared to the US. With more widespread internet usage people came to learn about previously unknown countries such as Singapore. Another reason why people may have preferred moving to the West over Singapore is that they might have assumed Singapore is another Hong Kong and India-China relations aren't really the best so they might have preferred staying away from anything associated with China.

The second reason for the higher concentration of Indians in higher-paying jobs is because of the growth of the IT and tech sector across the world, hence, the need for more IT professionals. Indians generally make up the bulk of the IT jobs not because our education is superior but simply because the system produces so many people with the required skill set. The fact that there are so many trained professionals in India who can speak English and also work for a relatively lower salary is the primary reason for recruitment for India.

Again this is not because the Indian education system is better than Singapore or any other country's education system, it's simply that we have more people to meet the demand and as a result of an abundant supply of professionals, there is higher competition for these jobs. You see more Indians because of our larger population and abundance of trained professionals. If you're wondering why there aren't as many Chinese as Indians it's simply because we have an English advantage, a remnant of being the jewel in the crown of the British Empire for 200 years.

Conveniently applies only for the higher end jobs- When was the last time you heard someone complaining about the Indians taking the construction jobs from locals? or how Indians and other South Asians are paid far lesser than their Singaporean counterparts in such jobs? When it comes to doing the menial work like fixing potholes, construction etc. nobody has a problem with bringing in Indians and other South Asians and paying them a lower salary. Only when Indians are having higher salary jobs does the problem arise. While I know lower-wage workers do not get EPs and nor are their occupations relevant to CECA I just want to highlight this observation. This is partly the reason why I think there is a racial element to the whole CECA issue. As long as Indians are fixing potholes and building roads everything is okay, but when they take higher-paying jobs then it's a problem. Quite frankly I don't think people would have noticed or even cared if instead of Indians the PMETs were all Chinese or Caucasians.

These are my primary views/observations about the CECA issue. I apologise for the paragraphs of text. I started typing this out after I heard Mr Leong Mun Wai's arguments about CECA and consequently seeing some provocative comments in the youtube comments section. This stuff has been on my mind for a couple of months and I'm just letting it all out.

I can understand where these sentiments against foreigners come from, but when you keep hearing the same stupid things like "Changi Business Park? More like Chennai Business Park heh heh" or "Indians not only take our jobs they take our song also?" it starts to get to you after a while. I've personally tried integrating with the local society (I eat chicken rice more than biriyani) but not everyone is able to or willing to do this so culture clashes do happen occasionally but making assumptions about a country of 1.3 billion people based on one bad personal experience is just foolish.

When I first came here and heard all the claims about being a multi-religious and multicultural society I thought "What's the big deal?". Coming from a country with 22 official languages, having 4 official languages wasn't that big of a deal for me but I later realised that there is probably no city in India where there are four distinct racial and linguistic groups that are completely different to each other but yet still coexist peacefully. That was when I realised the significance of being a multicultural and multi-religious city. Based on my experience so far, I am confident that Singapore will continue to uphold its multiracial ideals and will continue to progress and move forward.

PS: Once again sorry for the blocks of text lol. I also apologise for any grammatical mistakes or factual mistakes. This is my take on things and as I am no expert in this matter I am liable to make mistakes. Please feel free to correct me in the comments.

Edit 1: Wow, this blew up. Thank you all for your opinions! I just woke up so I apologize for not replying to your comments. I will try my best to reply to all of you in the next few hours.


 
Fake degree ahnehs steal jobs is the issue, abused the CECA....
 
Plenty of bullshit on Reddit. :wink:

No need to talk so much... use the eye test. Certain locations (workplaces) are infested with their kind. That is not normal and not good.
 
LDfNkj0.jpg
 
Why Sinkie cina detest CECA so much. Have they forgotten where their favourite god achieved enlightenment? Should go to Incredible India for a pilgrimage and achieve enlightenment. Discard all your worldly wealth and live a Brahmin life. Then this CECA problem will be solved. No need to be reincarnated and born a sinkie again and repeat the cycle.
 
Singaporeans are not taking advantage of ceca deal.
There are 1.6 billion indians. A huge market for dim sum, bak kut teh, satays snd fried chicken.
 
Why Sinkie cina detest CECA so much. Have they forgotten where their favourite god achieved enlightenment? Should go to Incredible India for a pilgrimage and achieve enlightenment. Discard all your worldly wealth and live a Brahmin life. Then this CECA problem will be solved. No need to be reincarnated and born a sinkie again and repeat the cycle.

Confuscius when asked about God, he said let's talk about man....

Buddha ahneh tell you to dream of enlightenment after you died. He was just stating the obvious what would happen only... let's dream with him...

Then came Jesus who died first and return 3 days later. Change narrative, he died this time.

Later came Mohamad who says We the devotees die this time..... narrative changed.... there will be 72 virgins awaiting for you.... whether you serve them or they serve you..... you will know after you die....
 
I have been living in Singapore for over 4 years after moving here from India. For the most part, I have nothing but praise for Singapore. The city is beautiful and clean, the governance and organisation are great and public facilities are excellent. I especially admire the public transport system and the NLBs.

However, one thing that has been troubling me (especially in recent times) is the growing anti-Indian sentiment, not only against foreigners but also against locals. The recent incidents against Indians may have been prompted by an underlying animosity towards foreigners (worsened due to Covid 19) but in the end, more Indian-Singaporeans were on the receiving end of these racist attacks rather than Indian expats. The misinformation surrounding CECA is the primary reason for this in my opinion.

While I completely understand the rationale behind reviewing and updating policy/agreements periodically, singling out CECA out of all 26 FTAs seems racially motivated. In essence, I believe the increase in the number of Indians in high paying jobs after the policy was introduced is the primary issue. Some things I want to address about this:

Indians are not getting unrestricted access into Singapore
- The Singapore Government has not opened the country's borders to every single Indian. The agreement doesn't allow any Indian to come and leave Singapore whenever they feel like it or whenever they need extra cash. No one is exempt from the usual procedures involved. Taking the case of Intra Corporate Transfers, the company first decides how many employees they need here or whether they even need employees over here.

Look at it from their perspective: why spend so much money to relocate an employee and their family to a more expensive country, pay them a higher salary, offer them reimbursement for living expenses, housing etc. when they can do the same work in their current location?


Indian companies are not simply bringing over people here because they want their employees to have a better quality of life, they are doing it because it is essential for the operations in the region. Then once the company approves the transfer, the employee has to apply for a work pass and fulfil the government's conditions. After all that a work pass is issued, typically for 2-3 years and it may or may not be renewed. So the notion that all Indians from those 127 occupations have free access to Singapore is false.

This trend is not unique to Singapore- Indians are not waiting in lines outside the airport to get into the next plane to Singapore and take jobs from locals.

There has been a large movement of Indians to all sorts of foreign countries, from the Middle East to the West and of course East Asia and Oceania. There are quite a few reasons for the recent "surge" in migrations. Firstly India underwent economic reforms in the 1990s ("liberalisation") to open itself to the world. Once India opened herself there was a mass migration to developed countries; especially the US and UK. People wanted a better quality of life, a competent government, and good quality education. The increased migration to Singapore may have occurred later on due to most people not knowing Singapore was a developed nation. Everyone wanted to move to the US; Hollywood saw to that.


Singapore was, and is, relatively unknown compared to the US. With more widespread internet usage people came to learn about previously unknown countries such as Singapore. Another reason why people may have preferred moving to the West over Singapore is that they might have assumed Singapore is another Hong Kong and India-China relations aren't really the best so they might have preferred staying away from anything associated with China.

The second reason for the higher concentration of Indians in higher-paying jobs is because of the growth of the IT and tech sector across the world, hence, the need for more IT professionals. Indians generally make up the bulk of the IT jobs not because our education is superior but simply because the system produces so many people with the required skill set. The fact that there are so many trained professionals in India who can speak English and also work for a relatively lower salary is the primary reason for recruitment for India.

Again this is not because the Indian education system is better than Singapore or any other country's education system, it's simply that we have more people to meet the demand and as a result of an abundant supply of professionals, there is higher competition for these jobs. You see more Indians because of our larger population and abundance of trained professionals. If you're wondering why there aren't as many Chinese as Indians it's simply because we have an English advantage, a remnant of being the jewel in the crown of the British Empire for 200 years.

Conveniently applies only for the higher end jobs- When was the last time you heard someone complaining about the Indians taking the construction jobs from locals? or how Indians and other South Asians are paid far lesser than their Singaporean counterparts in such jobs? When it comes to doing the menial work like fixing potholes, construction etc. nobody has a problem with bringing in Indians and other South Asians and paying them a lower salary. Only when Indians are having higher salary jobs does the problem arise. While I know lower-wage workers do not get EPs and nor are their occupations relevant to CECA I just want to highlight this observation. This is partly the reason why I think there is a racial element to the whole CECA issue. As long as Indians are fixing potholes and building roads everything is okay, but when they take higher-paying jobs then it's a problem. Quite frankly I don't think people would have noticed or even cared if instead of Indians the PMETs were all Chinese or Caucasians.

These are my primary views/observations about the CECA issue. I apologise for the paragraphs of text. I started typing this out after I heard Mr Leong Mun Wai's arguments about CECA and consequently seeing some provocative comments in the youtube comments section. This stuff has been on my mind for a couple of months and I'm just letting it all out.

I can understand where these sentiments against foreigners come from, but when you keep hearing the same stupid things like "Changi Business Park? More like Chennai Business Park heh heh" or "Indians not only take our jobs they take our song also?" it starts to get to you after a while. I've personally tried integrating with the local society (I eat chicken rice more than biriyani) but not everyone is able to or willing to do this so culture clashes do happen occasionally but making assumptions about a country of 1.3 billion people based on one bad personal experience is just foolish.

When I first came here and heard all the claims about being a multi-religious and multicultural society I thought "What's the big deal?". Coming from a country with 22 official languages, having 4 official languages wasn't that big of a deal for me but I later realised that there is probably no city in India where there are four distinct racial and linguistic groups that are completely different to each other but yet still coexist peacefully. That was when I realised the significance of being a multicultural and multi-religious city. Based on my experience so far, I am confident that Singapore will continue to uphold its multiracial ideals and will continue to progress and move forward.

PS: Once again sorry for the blocks of text lol. I also apologise for any grammatical mistakes or factual mistakes. This is my take on things and as I am no expert in this matter I am liable to make mistakes. Please feel free to correct me in the comments.

Edit 1: Wow, this blew up. Thank you all for your opinions! I just woke up so I apologize for not replying to your comments. I will try my best to reply to all of you in the next few hours.



 
Back
Top