Golden Period of migrating to Australia over

[Ash007]

Good things are not cheap, cheap things are not good. In general I either get the most expensive or the cheapest. No point getting the middle.

One thing I learnt in Australia is that there are 2 ways of doing things - the cheap way and the right way. If you opt for the cheap way, you get yourself into problem and blame someone for it.

To me, the evaporative is an American "stop-gap" product that does not solve problems.
Perhaps Singaporeans like the product because it give a humid weather, but you will notice after a while that the dampness from evaporative create bacteria, mildew and give a musty smell. Also, it worsen asthma allergies, and cause some white furniture to turn yellowish.

But wait, the Americans also create another product that try to solve this problem. But whether it works or not - back to my first question. There are 2 ways of doing things.

http://www.thinkzincanode.com/understanding.html

Amber fire risk
http://www.cockburn.wa.gov.au/docum...rgency/FESA-Ember-Protection-Screens-info.pdf

Oh, another point. The evaporative is also known as swamp cooler because it gives off a fishy odor when Perth is humid.

Then, I have the same issue with flood lights. That simple thing you think. My tenant bought one costing $15 and almost burnt my property down. That is why I tell my property manager - go get the $40 one. It is a proper product with safety certification. My insurer will not complain either.

There are a lot of things like that in Australia. Because of DIY, people buy cheap stuff, take shortcuts and then wonder why they spend so much time running around getting things fixed.

This is commenting from experience. Things are cheap for some reasons, if it is goog value, go ahead.

 

[neddy]

Hi Neddy, thanks for your insight,,but so far I do not have the issues you mention about the evap system. Some people have issues but the right way with evap not many people will do. For evap once a year must do maintainence. I bring in the agent to clean the system properly.

humid days, the evap is meant to be on via the fan feature and not 'cool' feature so no extra moisture is added and it keeps the air circulating in the house. So you are right, there is the cheap way, the good way and the proper way..Evaps are not perfect but there is a proper way to do it,,,Most people who have evaps dont do it the proper way so got problems and than KPKB....

Do you know that you can maintain the evaporative yourself.
The so called maintenance is a simple job of just splashing some water around.
There are 2 maintenance per year, end of summer where the chap will clean and put a winter hood over, and after winter, when the hood comes off.
That cost $300 per year. It used to cost $160 several years ago.

In hot humid weather, you cannot get cool temp so it defeat the purpose. It leaves the person feeling sticky and sweaty. The dampness stays. The books grow mildews, the clothes get a musty smell.

Getting evaporative is a personal preference.

It is your choice.

I prefer a reverse cycle air-con.

 

[neddy]

Good things are not cheap, cheap things are not good. In general I either get the most expensive or the cheapest. No point getting the middle.

You get what works. That may means skipping the local Bunnings store.

A friend of mine got a cheap shed, and Perth is one of the windiest city in the world. One year later, the shed was damaged in a 100kmh wind. The door cannot close anymore. A proper shed cost a few hundreds $ more because it is structural sound.

So, he ended up spending more to remove the shed to the tip and install a Stratco shed.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Yes Mate, its a personal choice,,all in all reverse cycle is better...and also not all places can install evaps...and I wont do the maintainance myself,,I too lazy to go on the roof,,,and my evap is a once a year maintainance one as the new systems have no need for the cover and all that...just once a year after winter clean...

Happy Lunar New year..sian tomorrow is back to work,..

Do you know that you can maintain the evaporative yourself.
The so called maintenance is a simple job of just splashing some water around.
There are 2 maintenance per year, end of summer where the chap will clean and put a winter hood over, and after winter, when the hood comes off.
That cost $300 per year. It used to cost $160 several years ago.

In hot humid weather, you cannot get cool temp so it defeat the purpose. It leaves the person feeling sticky and sweaty. The dampness stays. The books grow mildews, the clothes get a musty smell.

Getting evaporative is a personal preference.

It is your choice.

I prefer a reverse cycle air-con.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

if buy sheds etc,,would STRATCO be better? and dont all those sheds etc have to be rated to Oz standards??

You get what works. That may means skipping the local Bunnings store.

A friend of mine got a cheap shed, and Perth is one of the windiest city in the world. One year later, the shed was damaged in a 100kmh wind. The door cannot close anymore. A proper shed cost a few hundreds $ more because it is structural sound.

So, he ended up spending more to remove the shed to the tip and install a Stratco shed.

 

[neddy]

if buy sheds etc,,would STRATCO be better? and dont all those sheds etc have to be rated to Oz standards??

No. It just need shire approval - not structural check.
That is why these days, when you submit building construction plans to the shire, they may ask you to put in a store room/ area as part of the building. They have issues with Garden sheds and do not want you to build one later.

Even with oz standard, you may want to ask whether it is min guidelines.

Eg I have seen houses with standard down pipes, but when Perth has its big storm, the rain water went into the house because the down pipes cannot cope.

Also, standards are not everything.

If you see how Syney build houses, you will be shocked at the standards.

Unfortunately, the "standards" are coming to Perth.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

yeah I heard sydney standards are not good as theirs is single brick homes, noise etc is worse than perth houses and perth houses are already crap,,the problem with housing is they insists on brick etc instead of allowing those pre fab thick walls etc as they want to protect midland and austral bricks. In pommieland and europe pre fabs have proven to be easier to build and more durable and better weather and sound insulation,,,but that is oz,, so if those sydney standards are coming over to perth,wont the insurance companies complain as they will have heaps of claims and more ppl will dulan that premiums go up and its just a vicious cycle,,now you know why i hate the fat cats,,as they are not doing their job to ensure standards etc and are just sucking resources from the working class,,fucking shires are another culprit,,every damn year the rates go up and the fucking CEO earns more than the premier and the council man are nothing but loosers in the state and federal elections...always got a high pay job at tax payers expense,,no different than pap and their rent seeking behaviour and PAP being a welfare state to pappies'

No. It just need shire approval - not structural check.
That is why these days, when you submit building construction plans to the shire, they may ask you to put in a store room/ area as part of the building. They have issues with Garden sheds and do not want you to build one later.

Even with oz standard, you may want to ask whether it is min guidelines.

Eg I have seen houses with standard down pipes, but when Perth has its big storm, the rain water went into the house because the down pipes cannot cope.

Also, standards are not everything.

If you see how Syney build houses, you will be shocked at the standards.

Unfortunately, the "standards" are coming to Perth.

 

[neddy]

yeah I heard sydney standards are not good as theirs is single brick homes, noise etc is worse than perth houses and perth houses are already crap,,the problem with housing is they insists on brick etc instead of allowing those pre fab thick walls etc as they want to protect midland and austral bricks.

Not sure where you heard this from. Midland Brick (Boral) is the largest world class brickworks in the world and sell bricks overseas, including Singapore.

Shires are a Pommie traditional, they exist to make life difficult for everyone. Why do you think the Barnett govt is trying to rein them in. It takes time.

now you know why i hate the fat cats,,as they are not doing their job to ensure standards etc and are just sucking resources from the working class,,fucking shires are another culprit,,every damn year the rates go up and the fucking CEO earns more than the premier and the council man are nothing but loosers in the state and federal elections...

At least you know what you are getting in Australia. It is shocking that Singaporeans are still trying to do things the Singapore way in Australia. Singapore and Australia are like yin and yang. Australia is not for gu-niang.

I guess we are spoilt by efficiency. I think you fail to see how laid back Perth is. You really need to relax.

Singapore get things done because of cheap foreign labour and Singapore fat cats are no better than the ones here.

In Perth, there is no cheap foreign labour and you can face-pie a fat cat if you don't like it. They usually don't last very long because after a while, stakeholder bue-song and kick them out.
Whereas in Singapore, the fat cats stay around forever. If not for the ka-kia correcting the fat cats mistakes, things will be as bad.

For me, once when I not happy with Perth, I took a vacation in Singapore and see how my peers are doing, I appreciated that things are still better here.

You should see the work that my new boss and most of my co-workers are doing, they are a lot better than in Singapore, and they come under external scrutiny if things do wrong. It is the leftists who think the world owe them a living and they socialise rather than work, and still get paid salaries close to $200,000.
Worse, in Singapore, you can never know what the PAP is going to do next.

 

[Ash007]

There is a difference being efficient and being effective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficiency

The term "efficient" is very much confused and misused with the term "effective". In general, efficiency is a measurable concept, quantitatively determined by the ratio of output to input. "Effectiveness", is a relatively vague, non-quantitative concept, mainly concerned with achieving objectives. In several of these cases, efficiency can be expressed as a result as percentage of what ideally could be expected, hence with 100% as ideal case. This does not always apply, not even in all cases where efficiency can be assigned a numerical value, e.g. not for specific impulse.
A simple way of distinguishing between efficiency and effectiveness is the saying, "Efficiency is doing things right, while Effectiveness is doing the right things." This is based on the premise that selection of objectives of a process are just as important as the quality of that process.

Aussies might not be efficient but sometimes they are very effective in doing things.

 

[neddy]

There is a difference being efficient and being effective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficiency

Aussies might not be efficient but sometimes they are very effective in doing things.

Brilliant!
They just need to transfer the effective skills from the Olympic to the workplace. LOL.

 

[Ash007]

Indeed, you get to see them doing effective things from time to time. I'm in a workplace where QA/testing, originally outsourced to India for manual testing that takes 1-2 weeks for a cycle using 10-20 people, we did it over here with just one, with 2-3 times the amount of tests in 2 hours. Singapore might be efficient, but are they effective? Sometimes less is more.

Brilliant!
They just need to transfer the effective skills from the Olympic to the workplace. LOL.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

I did ask about houses and was told that in rural areas you can build good quality Kit homes,,but for suburbs must be brick and the brick is shit,,got holes in between. The houses build here is very 'leaky'. Noise and sound passes through easily and cannot retain heat etc. And now new houses they are using more glass..what is the bloody point in that?

And Shires are shit,,nothing but blood sucking entities, every damn year rates are going up and all i need the shire to do is collect my rubbish..Barnett is sure doing a 'good' job getting rid of them. Most people i speak too will be glad the shire is gotten rid off,,but as I said b4, the shire is dumping ground for loosers of federal and state elections..heaps of labour and liberal members are using it and their jobs are at stake...will barnett go against them? if he is doing it,,he sure is doing a shit job...

For the Fat cats,,,i was told alot of them are out of work..but they are still getting paid 100K per year for nothing...this is just a welfare state for the civil serpents...

I am glad you and your dept are doing good,,,its the crap ones that need to be dealt with...and as such i dont see perth as only being efficient and effective in making life difficult. Just my rants...

Not sure where you heard this from. Midland Brick (Boral) is the largest world class brickworks in the world and sell bricks overseas, including Singapore.

Shires are a Pommie traditional, they exist to make life difficult for everyone. Why do you think the Barnett govt is trying to rein them in. It takes time.




At least you know what you are getting in Australia. It is shocking that Singaporeans are still trying to do things the Singapore way in Australia. Singapore and Australia are like yin and yang. Australia is not for gu-niang.

I guess we are spoilt by efficiency. I think you fail to see how laid back Perth is. You really need to relax.

Singapore get things done because of cheap foreign labour and Singapore fat cats are no better than the ones here.

In Perth, there is no cheap foreign labour and you can face-pie a fat cat if you don't like it. They usually don't last very long because after a while, stakeholder bue-song and kick them out.
Whereas in Singapore, the fat cats stay around forever. If not for the ka-kia correcting the fat cats mistakes, things will be as bad.

For me, once when I not happy with Perth, I took a vacation in Singapore and see how my peers are doing, I appreciated that things are still better here.

You should see the work that my new boss and most of my co-workers are doing, they are a lot better than in Singapore, and they come under external scrutiny if things do wrong. It is the leftists who think the world owe them a living and they socialise rather than work, and still get paid salaries close to $200,000.
Worse, in Singapore, you can never know what the PAP is going to do next.

 

[neddy]

I am glad you and your dept are doing good,,,its the crap ones that need to be dealt with...and as such i dont see perth as only being efficient and effective in making life difficult. Just my rants...

Angmos do things with self-interest. And the English speaking ones are worse than the continental ones.

If you want an air-tight house, you have to look at continental europe. You want triple-glazing windows, it is continental europe again.
You want good cars, you cannot go beyond Germany.

Perth is a pommy place, so you have to live with it. Leaky houses, etc. But they do try, with energy ratings.
http://www.subiaco.wa.gov.au/Planni...ovating/Energy-and-water-efficiency-standards

But the city first-tier commercial buildings are not leaky, so businesses will rather lease these buildings than to go the the city fringe for leaky buildings - because of energy bills.

Human beings are prone to failure, there are not that many countries that can give us a good standard of living. Just be glad that Australia is able to do that, thanks to its small population and easy money digging treasures out of the soil. You do not need to be smart doing these sort of things.
Being smart can be deadly, like creating China's black-hearted fake food.

The people believe that industrialisation and computerisation is supposed to give us more time to relax and play. But somehow, some people spoil the GRAND PLAN and make people work more and compete with machines to work work work.

Now, machines are taking over human lives, a SMS alert from a failing computer will summon the human slave from the Christmas long weekend to work extra. The concession is that the IT workers will be paid 2.5 times for attending to the service failure.

It is the same with food. I like to know what I am eating, and I prefer growing my food - thankfully, I can.

You cannot change everything, you can make life better for yourself.

More Chinese are doing that, with the 188 and 888 visas.

 

[ZorrorroZ]

Hey guys... can you tell me about kit housing? I came across a couple of sites advertising kit houses, and they seem damn cheap sia.

What's the pro and cons of, say, buying a piece of land in a perth suburb closer to the city and getting a kit house built vs buying a proper land & house package in a suburb further from the city?

 

[Ash007]

The people believe that industrialisation and computerisation is supposed to give us more time to relax and play. But somehow, some people spoil the GRAND PLAN and make people work more and compete with machines to work work work.

Now, machines are taking over human lives, a SMS alert from a failing computer will summon the human slave from the Christmas long weekend to work extra. The concession is that the IT workers will be paid 2.5 times for attending to the service failure.

It is the same with food. I like to know what I am eating, and I prefer growing my food - thankfully, I can.

You cannot change everything, you can make life better for yourself.

More Chinese are doing that, with the 188 and 888 visas.

Interesting you mentioned that. Was just reading an article about it. There was another thread about Australian wooing rich investor as well. But under the scheme you only get like 500 Ah tiongs at best. The rest still comes in as skilled migration. 188/888 has definitely increased the bar, there was a time when 500K would have been enough.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/04/work-more-less-quality-of-life

Why work more? We should be working less for a better quality of life
Our society tolerates long working hours for some and zero hours for others. This doesn't make sense
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David Spencer for Europp, part of the Guardian Comment Network
theguardian.com, Wednesday 5 February 2014 02.51 AEST
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Man at computer
'JS Mill advocated a gospel of leisure, arguing that technology should be used to curtail work time as far as possible.' Photograph: OJO Images/Rex Features
The focus of conventional employment policy is on creating "more work". People without work and in receipt of benefits are viewed as a drain on the state and in need of assistance or direct coercion to get them into work. There is the belief that work is the best form of welfare and that those who are able to work ought to work. This particular focus on work has come at the expense of another, far more radical policy goal, that of creating "less work". Yet, as I will argue below, the pursuit of less work could provide a route to a better standard of life, including a better quality of work life.

The idea that society might work less in order to enjoy life more goes against standard thinking that celebrates the virtue and discipline of hard work. Dedication to work, so the argument goes, is the best route to prosperity. There is also the idea that work offers the opportunity for self-realisation, adding to the material benefits from work. "Do what you love" in work, we are told, and success will follow.

But ideologies such as the above are based on a myth that work can always set us free and provide us with the basis for a good life. As I have written elsewhere, this mythologising about work fails to confront – indeed it actively conceals – the acute hardships of much work performed in modern society. For many, work is about doing what you hate.

Here I want to address another issue that is overlooked in conventional policy debates. This is the need to diminish work. Working less presents several advantages. One is the opportunity to overcome the anomaly of overwork for some and unemployment for others. Sharing out work more evenly across the available population by reducing average working time would enable those who work too much to work less and those do not work at all to partake in some work. Another advantage is the opportunity to enhance the quality of work by reducing drudgery and extending opportunities for creative activity in work. Reducing work time, in this sense, can be as much about realising the intrinsic rewards of work as reducing its burdensome qualities.

Economists may cry foul that a reduction in working time will add to firm costs and lead to job losses (mainstream economics accuses advocates of shorter work hours of succumbing to the "lump of labour fallacy" and of failing to see the extra costs of hiring additional workers on shorter hours contracts). One retort to this is that longer work hours are not that productive. Shorter work hours may actually be more productive if they increase the morale and motivation of workers. In practice, we could achieve the same standard of living with fewer hours of work.

But the more profound question is whether we should be asking society to tolerate long work hours for some and zero work hours for others. Surely society can achieve a more equitable allocation of work that offers everyone enough time to work and enough time to do what they want? A reduction in work time, it can be argued here, would offer a route to such an allocation.

There is also the deeper issue of whether we should be measuring the value of our lives by what we produce. The cult of productivity crowds out other more "leisurely" ways of living that can add to human wellbeing. Challenging this cult and seeking ways to lighten the burden of work could allow us all to live better lives inside and outside of work.

Arguments for shorter work time have a long history. Keynes, for example, gave support to a reduction in working time as a way of achieving full employment. In a letter to the poet TS Eliot in 1945, Keynes suggested that less work represented the "ultimate solution" to unemployment. Keynes also saw merit in using productivity gains to reduce work time and famously looked forward to a time (around 2030) when people would be required to work 15 hours a week. Working less was a part of Keynes's vision of a "good society".

Marx, from a radically different perspective, saw a reduction in working time as an essential ingredient of a future communist society. Work was part of the "realm of necessity" and via the use of technology it could be curtailed as a way to expand the "realm of freedom" in which people could realise their creative capacities in activities of their own choosing. Marx importantly thought that under communism work in the "realm of necessity" could be fulfilling as it would elicit and harness the creativity of workers. Whatever irksome work remained in the realm of necessity under communism again could be lessened by the harnessing of technology.

Yet another advocate of shorter work time was JS Mill. He dismissed the "gospel of work" proposed by Thomas Carlyle in part because it drew a veil over the real costs of work, including slave work that Carlyle sought to defend. Instead, Mill advocated a "gospel of leisure", arguing that technology should be used to curtail work time as far as possible. This stress on technology as a means to shorten work time was later to feature in Bertrand Russell's 1932 essay, "In Praise of Idleness".

The essential ideas of the above writers resonate still today. They cut through romantic views of work and show how human progress depends on society performing less, not more, work. Although developed in radically different ways, their ideas point to a future where the burden of work is lighter and more time is available for free creative activity. At least in the case of Marx, there is still the prospect of turning work into a fulfilling activity, but the latter objective is seen as achievable only within the context of a situation in which work time is reduced. Less work is seen as a necessary foundation for better work.

Ultimately, the reduction in working time is about creating more opportunities for people to realise their potential in all manner of activities including within the work sphere. Working less, in short, is about allowing us to live more. Let's work to achieve it.

 

[888Migration]

Hey guys... can you tell me about kit housing? I came across a couple of sites advertising kit houses, and they seem damn cheap sia.

What's the pro and cons of, say, buying a piece of land in a perth suburb closer to the city and getting a kit house built vs buying a proper land & house package in a suburb further from the city?

I have seen some kit houses in Perth, but they are mostly built at the back of established homes as nanny flats or extensions.

I think first of all you need to find out from your council if kit homes are allowed on your block of land, building restrictions, etc. Some of them might also need special fire retardants to be applied.

The other thing to think about is insulation. Even brick and mortar houses have insulation problems in Perth's extreme weather. I think kit houses will be much worse.

Next to consider will be re-sale value. I have not seen a 2nd hand market for them.

Lastly, check with insurers if they cover kit homes. It is reasonable to think that they will be a separate category from normal home insurance.

 

[ZorrorroZ]

I have seen some kit houses in Perth, but they are mostly built at the back of established homes as nanny flats or extensions.

I think first of all you need to find out from your council if kit homes are allowed on your block of land, building restrictions, etc. Some of them might also need special fire retardants to be applied.

The other thing to think about is insulation. Even brick and mortar houses have insulation problems in Perth's extreme weather. I think kit houses will be much worse.

Next to consider will be re-sale value. I have not seen a 2nd hand market for them.

Lastly, check with insurers if they cover kit homes. It is reasonable to think that they will be a separate category from normal home insurance.

Good points about the council permissions, insurance and insulation.
I'm only thinking of them because certain suburbs are so expensive due to various reasons, but there are plots being sold where the house is in bad shape - sold only for land value. If we can build a kit house there, and live for several years - but perhaps sell off again for land value later on; or even build a proper house when can afford more (secure the land now) - maybe the overall cost may be worth it? Need to calculate properly though.

 

[888Migration]

Interesting you mentioned that. Was just reading an article about it. There was another thread about Australian wooing rich investor as well. But under the scheme you only get like 500 Ah tiongs at best. The rest still comes in as skilled migration. 188/888 has definitely increased the bar, there was a time when 500K would have been enough.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/04/work-more-less-quality-of-life

Think about it this way. Australia is just like any other country with a declining birth rate. It is in the global market to attract the most skilled or most affluent to contribute or invest in the country.

The thread title is a bit misleading..... What makes Australia different from, say Singapore, is that it has been tightening it's control of its migration policy since the last Labor government took over. Increasing requirements and introducing caps, while Singapore is opening the floodgates.

With it's huge land mass, abundant natural resources and declining birth rate, Australia will always need people to fill jobs. In my opinion, the golden period of migrating to Australia is over only for people who have low qualifications or skills. Conversely, if you are highly qualified, the golden period has only just begun in the last few years as you will still be in demand in the Australian job market and not be competing with people who depress wages due to their lower skill levels.

In the long run, it will only benefit Australia and those living here as skills and technology improve, the standards of living improve, less people will be on welfare, there can be greater expenditure on building the nation for future generations. Ask yourself this question, do you want to your children to grow up in a well planned democratic society or one with myopic vision that plugs holes as and only when they appear?

 

[888Migration]

Good points about the council permissions, insurance and insulation.
I'm only thinking of them because certain suburbs are so expensive due to various reasons, but there are plots being sold where the house is in bad shape - sold only for land value. If we can build a kit house there, and live for several years - but perhaps sell off again for land value later on; or even build a proper house when can afford more (secure the land now) - maybe the overall cost may be worth it? Need to calculate properly though.

Be aware of this though.... some developers who sell land require you to build within a certain period after the titles are released, or they may not view kit homes as proper residential buildings. Otherwise they have the legal right to procure the land back at lower than market rates. Make sure you read your land purchase agreement.

Another thing about buying land with old homes, check whether the building is heritage listed. You don't want to be stuck in a situation where you can't knock down an old and ugly building to build over it.

 

[neddy]

Good points about the council permissions, insurance and insulation.
I'm only thinking of them because certain suburbs are so expensive due to various reasons, but there are plots being sold where the house is in bad shape - sold only for land value. If we can build a kit house there, and live for several years - but perhaps sell off again for land value later on; or even build a proper house when can afford more (secure the land now) - maybe the overall cost may be worth it? Need to calculate properly though.

Kit homes are American solution of owning a house on the cheap. It has been around for a long time, and it is attractive idea because the house go up quickly, but beware of structural integrity if you want to customise the build.

So far, I have seen an extension built with modules, the neighbors went up in arms against this neighbor. In Mt Lawley.