Goh Choon Phong - The man who is destroying SIA

[johnny333]

direct roundtrip flight from sfo to sin for $699 how not to book? not just the low price, but service remains great. if i ask for white wine i know i get good bordeaux white. if i ask for red wine i know i get good bordeaux red which is usually a combo of cabernet sauvignon and merlot. on united flight for the same route i face fat and old attendants and scowling cheebye faces. only gay male attendants are friendly as they like to attract male passengers. all other cabin crew members are unionized holdouts with an attitude. even in biz class they tell you to fuck off. a passenger came in last in line and couldn't find space to hang his coat on the upper deck of an old 747 and when he approached the female attendant was promptly ordered by her to run downstairs to find space in clothes cabinets at the biz section below. with sia, they will bend over backwards to take care of you if you're in biz class. they will bend a little to show cleavage if you're in economy. better than grandma attendants who cover their wrinkled necks with scarves. all these little things add up. but i know when i fly sq, the cockpit crew is seasoned and the plane is new.

The problem with SIA's promotion pricing is that there are always strings attached.

When I was still a SIA fan I would be fooled by such promotions. Then I found out that the special pricing only applies if you bought tickets for 2 i.e. you can't just buy a single ticket, it must be for 2 or more tickets . There are also other limitations to when you can travel.

Have flown with SIA so I'm familiar with some of their practices e.g. hitting me with overweight charges even though I was flying business. When flying economy they will pre-select the seats for you & will not let change the seats even though you are the first in the check-in counter. There is also the pinkerton syndrome which can be very obvious.

I've received better treatment on other airlines, such as being upgraded to business class. When I missed a flight they simply re-booked me on a flight the next day without any hassles.

I don't expect special treatment when I fly, only want to be treated fairly. That is why I don't fly with SIA anymore.

 

[scroobal]

The common practice over the years for most people that I know both local and expats

1) Is that they will alway fly SIA as first priority when on business and corporate expense because of its multiple connections, almost religious approach to punctuality both at departure and arrival and their high standards in safety, meals and drinks served and things provided.

2) These people will also fly on SIA for private holidays and travel at their own expense plus the mileage points from SIA work related travel accumulated.

3) Then you have people who do not travel at corporate expense. They work locally or run their own small business or are retirees. Most of them will never ever travel on SIA as it is one of the priciest travel fares especially out of Singapore. In fact most airlines charge higher price for their home base due to loyalty giving rise to demand and much cheaper fares outside their home country where they have to compete with every other airline.

4) SIA Promotions are correlated to point 1 and 2. It will never make sense for point 3 as they are not the target customer segment.

The prime driver is inevitably about cost and SIA has always priced itself higher as it could for a long time take that position. But you hear the usual excuses about ugly hostesses, pinkerton syndrome, poor service etc from point 3 segment.

The point is that SIA has never ever claimed to be a family airline that is price and service friendly for families, locals going on holidays or retirees. There are also wealthy people including wealthy retirees who would not touch SIA as by nature they are thrifty and price sensitive.

In recent years, the gulf airlines who made it known that they followed SIA as model have now done better than SIA. Its no surprise that they have to catch up and also look for a model that works for them for the next 20 years.

In simple terms, there are parents that will downgrade their 5 room HDB flat to a 4 or 3 room flat in a new estate to fund their kid's $500k medical education for 6 years in Oz and there are parents that will prefer to keep their 5 room HDB flat and ask the kid to do Engineering in NUS. So it never simple.

The problem with SIA's promotion pricing is that there are always strings attached.

When I was still a SIA fan I would be fooled by such promotions. Then I found out that the special pricing only applies if you bought tickets for 2 i.e. you can't just buy a single ticket, it must be for 2 or more tickets . There are also other limitations to when you can travel.

Have flown with SIA so I'm familiar with some of their practices e.g. hitting me with overweight charges even though I was flying business. When flying economy they will pre-select the seats for you & will not let change the seats even though you are the first in the check-in counter. There is also the pinkerton syndrome which can be very obvious.

I've received better treatment on other airlines, such as being upgraded to business class. When I missed a flight they simply re-booked me on a flight the next day without any hassles.

I don't expect special treatment when I fly, only want to be treated fairly. That is why I don't fly with SIA anymore.

 

[eatshitndie]

The problem with SIA's promotion pricing is that there are always strings attached.

When I was still a SIA fan I would be fooled by such promotions. Then I found out that the special pricing only applies if you bought tickets for 2 i.e. you can't just buy a single ticket, it must be for 2 or more tickets . There are also other limitations to when you can travel.

Have flown with SIA so I'm familiar with some of their practices e.g. hitting me with overweight charges even though I was flying business. When flying economy they will pre-select the seats for you & will not let change the seats even though you are the first in the check-in counter. There is also the pinkerton syndrome which can be very obvious.

I've received better treatment on other airlines, such as being upgraded to business class. When I missed a flight they simply re-booked me on a flight the next day without any hassles.

I don't expect special treatment when I fly, only want to be treated fairly. That is why I don't fly with SIA anymore.

for now don't compare with middle eastern airlines. they are heavily state-subsidized to kill the competition (and then true colors will emerge). let's compare with asian and american airlines plying the pacific routes. focus on route segment, apples for apples, source-destination, class of service etc., and we will have a fair comparison. otherwise argue until cows cum home also buay song.

for the pacific segment, i don't fly sia all the time. for business bo pian have to fly united due to travel booking preferences and policy. for personal travel i switched to eva, cathay, ana, jal, asiana to find out if they were better on the sfo-sin route. let's talk economy class. eva would route through chiangkaishit for a 2-hour stopover while cathay would route through chiaklakcock for 1-hour transit. ana would do its stopover at narita and made me wait 11 hours while jal's layover is over 6.9 hours. asiana made me wait at incheon for at least 3 hours but the wait was worthwhile as korean female ground crew all look the same like beautiful factory-produced stepford wives with perfect complexion, fair skin, long legs, slim figures, porcelain faces freshly sculptured like mannequins for displays at shopping windows.

verdict: eva sucks, period. cathay sucks. hated their sliding seats as backrest did not tilt back. they give you a false sense of legroom during take off and landing as at cruising the seat actually slides forward reducing leg room. ana was ok with brand new 787s, young, pretty and attentive cabin crew, but the long layover at horrible narita was just too much. moreover, it's not the lowest price. jal was an airline of the past. nuff said. asiana was ok with price, plane, cabin crew and service. but their pilots were atrociously gung-ho and gook-boho. same could be said about china airlines (roc) pilots. former taiwanese fighter pilots flying commercial planes should be banned. i know this because i drank and partied with them frequently at a hotel in san mateo where they put up in between flights out of sfo. some would fly semi-drunk or with a serious hangover.

with sia-sin direct route in service, it's a godsend. ok, promotional prices may not last more than 6.9 seasons but the fair market value now during peak season is about usd$969, way below the usual usd$1200 sfo-hkg-sin route. with united competing on the same direct route using the new 787 dreamliner, it's only great for consumers. if united stops putting grannies on long haul flights to serve (they don't serve, they grinch) i would happily alternate between sia and united. btw, united serves the same economy class meals in biz class, with differences only in cutlery and presentation. it's the suckiest airline ever, next to american airlines.

 

[ckmpd]

The problem with SIA's promotion pricing is that there are always strings attached.

When I was still a SIA fan I would be fooled by such promotions. Then I found out that the special pricing only applies if you bought tickets for 2 i.e. you can't just buy a single ticket, it must be for 2 or more tickets . There are also other limitations to when you can travel.

Have flown with SIA so I'm familiar with some of their practices e.g. hitting me with overweight charges even though I was flying business. When flying economy they will pre-select the seats for you & will not let change the seats even though you are the first in the check-in counter. There is also the pinkerton syndrome which can be very obvious.

I've received better treatment on other airlines, such as being upgraded to business class. When I missed a flight they simply re-booked me on a flight the next day without any hassles.

I don't expect special treatment when I fly, only want to be treated fairly. That is why I don't fly with SIA anymore.

good points. this shows the arrogance of SIA. SIA deserves to be whacked and I hope it continues to fumble. Goh Choon Pong, like PAP, is living on past glories. Goh Choon Pong is living on the successes of JY Pillay, Lim Chin Beng and Cheong Choon Keong. But their successes are wearing off after recent missteps

 

[johnny333]

for now don't compare with middle eastern airlines. they are heavily state-subsidized to kill the competition (and then true colors will emerge). let's compare with asian and american airlines plying the pacific routes. focus on route segment, apples for apples, source-destination, class of service etc., and we will have a fair comparison. otherwise argue until cows cum home also buay song.
....

Isn't SIA state subsidised
The problem for Sporeans is that these subsidies are targeted for foreigners & not locals

The company I was working allowed one to chose the airline we wanted to use. I initially chose SIA but changed to United because of the advantages. When flying to the US I chose to fly United because they permitted me to make FREE stopovers & I took advantage of their extensive network to visit places like Canada for free, when my final destination was actually the US

When I only wanted to visit Canada & paying from my own pocket I would use "EVA Premium". It is cheaper than business but gives one more leg room than economy class. What impressed me was the care they took of the aerial I purchase in Canada.

I have been retired for years now & usually fly budget when visiting places like Thailand & Indonesia. I was pleasantly surprise whenever Emirates upgraded me, because having flown with SIA I have low expectations :o

However for long haul flights to North America I would take EVA premium. It is a popular way to fly to North America. Just google & you will read the positive reviews.

There is no real reason to use SIA. I used to be a Kris member but I'm not a fan of those frequent flyer programs & prefer the flexibility of being able to chose the schedule & route.

 

[johnny333]

The common practice over the years for most people that I know both local and expats ....

Although I don't fly SIA anymore I've heard comments from many non-Sporean asians. They tell me of SIA's falling standards.

SIA treated their passengers as a business asset. For locals it was worst because we were charged a premium & treated with discrimination. So I'm surprise there are people who seem to be loyal customers.

It all comes down to a simple & pragmatic dollars & cents decision. Why should I pay to fly with SIA when other airlines charge me less & treat me better

 

[scroobal]

Agree that it would not make sense for someone paying from his own pocket to take other airlines and there are good airlines flying out of Singapore that give better value for the price. SIA always has focused on business travellers, a different focus and segment.

Although I don't fly SIA anymore I've heard comments from many non-Sporean asians. They tell me of SIA's falling standards.

SIA treated their passengers as a business asset. For locals it was worst because we were charged a premium & treated with discrimination. So I'm surprise there are people who seem to be loyal customers.

It all comes down to a simple & pragmatic dollars & cents decision. Why should I pay to fly with SIA when other airlines charge me less & treat me better

 

[johnny333]

good points. this shows the arrogance of SIA. SIA deserves to be whacked and I hope it continues to fumble. Goh Choon Pong, like PAP, is living on past glories. Goh Choon Pong is living on the successes of JY Pillay, Lim Chin Beng and Cheong Choon Keong. But their successes are wearing off after recent missteps

So many PAP gov't linked companies have tried to compete overseas & failed.

These Spore GLCs fail outside Spore because market competition exists & political appointees like paper generals are unsuitable for such positions. LKY or LHL were idiots because they started promoting these paper generals into key economic posts. You need people with a business background and that something special to run businesses & not "yes" men obedient to a political party.

SIA will probably follow the same fate of other GLCs. It will struggle along supported by Spore tax dollars. Their loses contributing to the big hole that Temasek is hiding.

 

[aurvandil]

SQ has been steadily losing ground among business travelers. Emirates and Qatar seem to be increasingly the preferred choice.

Agree that it would not make sense for someone paying from his own pocket to take other airlines and there are good airlines flying out of Singapore that give better value for the price. SIA always has focused on business travellers, a different focus and segment.

 

[Scrooball (clone)]

The problem with SIA's promotion pricing is that there are always strings attached.

If no strings are attached to promotions, i worry!

 

[SalahParking]

Nonsense! It is the shareholders' fault. Why did they continue to vote for the Board of Directors who are not doing anything to arrest the decline of the company? SIA shareholders deserve it. Glad I no longer hold SIA shares. My children and I are proud owners of Air Canada and I thumb my nose at you foolish SIA shareholders. Ha ha!

. to

SIA shares surging today. Nothing to stop it now.It will keep soaring. Lucky to those who bought in when saying plunging, say no future.

Goh CHoon Phong is doing a good job

 

[SalahParking]

The common practice over the years for most people that I know both local and expats

1) Is that they will alway fly SIA as first priority when on business and corporate expense because of its multiple connections, almost religious approach to punctuality both at departure and arrival and their high standards in safety, meals and drinks served and things provided.

2) These people will also fly on SIA for private holidays and travel at their own expense plus the mileage points from SIA work related travel accumulated.

3) Then you have people who do not travel at corporate expense. They work locally or run their own small business or are retirees. Most of them will never ever travel on SIA as it is one of the priciest travel fares especially out of Singapore. In fact most airlines charge higher price for their home base due to loyalty giving rise to demand and much cheaper fares outside their home country where they have to compete with every other airline.

.

Yes, Corp business travel was cash cow. That is now gone.

 

[SalahParking]

saf pilots not automatic sia pilots, and sia pilots not many saf (fighter) pilots. they are hiring cheap, young, and good from other cuntries. where is our sadharshimo to verify this?

Ben Pas
Answered Jul 3 2016 · Upvoted by Chris Habig, Experimental test pilot, fighter pilot, airline pilot, flown 70 types

Before a fighter pilot starts flying fast jets, he goes through the same basic training as any commercial pilot. You start small and then progress towards the plane you will ultimately fly, which can be an F16 or a 737. All pilots "know" how to fly planes, and a fighter pilot should be able to keep a commercial jet in the air.

The most important difference between fighter and commercial pilots however is this thing called CRM or Crew Resource Management.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Crew resource management or cockpit resource management (CRM)

is a set of training procedures for use in environments where human error can have devastating effects. Used primarily for improving air safety, CRM focuses on interpersonal communication, leadership, and decision making in the cockpit.

Crew resource management formally began with a National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) recommendation made during their investigation of the United Airlines Flight 173 crash. There a DC-8 crew ran out of fuel over Portland, Oregon while troubleshooting a landing gear problem.

The term "cockpit resource management" (later generalized to "crew resource management") was coined in 1979 by NASA psychologist John Lauber who had studied communication processes in cockpits for several years.

While retaining a command hierarchy, the concept was intended to foster a less authoritarian cockpit culture, where co-pilots were encouraged to question captains if they observed them making mistakes.

Crew Resource management grew out of the 1977 Tenerife airport disaster where two Boeing 747 aircraft collided on the runway killing 583 people. A few weeks later, NASA held a workshop on the topic, endorsing this innovative training.


Up until the late 1970's most commercial pilots had a military background. In the military, rank means you only answer to those above you, and command those below. In the cockpits of airliners, this lead to a very authoritarian way of leadership. In most cases the other crew members wouldn't dare question the captain, even if the captain was making some terrible mistake.

Several major accidents were attributed to this behaviour (including the worst aviation disaster to date at Tenerife) and CRM was introduced to prevent further accidents and deaths.

US Airways flight 1549, that landed on the Hudson river with no loss of life, and United Flight 232 that crash-landed at Sioux City are often hailed as text-book examples of applied CRM.

When the proverbial excrement hits the ventilation device you need everyone in the cockpit on the same page. CRM helps to share the often overwhelming workload in an emergency as effectively and efficiently as possible. Also, an environment that allows everyone in the cockpit to voice concerns instead of bowing out to hierarchy can help solve small problems before they become big ones.

So while a fighter pilot may have the knowledge to fly a commercial aircraft as long as it's in good working order, CRM was never part of the curriculum. That alone should keep them out of the cockpit of a commercial jet.

 

[SalahParking]

William Chang
Updated Aug 7 2016

China Airlines used to recruit ex Republic of China Air Force pilots back in the 90’s. Emphasis on “used”. Eight China Airlines aircraft have crashed in the last 30 years causing 755 deaths making it one of the most dangerous airlines in the world. I admit their safety record is much better after they started training their own pilots.

There are two major problems with Air Force pilots that I can think of now which contributed to the 8 crashes.

Fighter Pilot subculture

Fighter pilots typically aren’t the most careful and modest of people, in fact they are risk takers. Which is alright in your nifty little fighter jet but not alright at the helm of a lumbering Boeing 747 with more than 400 hapless passengers’ fate in your hand.

Q: How do you know there's a fighter pilot at your party?
A: He'll tell you.
Their fighter pilot subconscious

Even though they are technically China Airlines pilots now, they were first trained to fly on fighter jets. And they don’t forget it. In fact it’s almost engraved into their genes memory like muscle memory, those fighter jet instincts.

Heard of China Airlines Flight 676?


A fighter jet can do this

So when Mr. 康龍麟 (Mr. Kang), who was once a Officer in the ROC airforce and flew both F-104s and F-16s, was landing at Taoyuan airport in 1998 tried to abort his first landing attempt, he tried doing the same thing that the second picture shows. Well, not the entire flip on back part but the pull up part. Sadly to his dismay and also the other 200 people on board, the Airbus A300 wasn’t able to deal with a 40 degree pull up and stalled. The plane crashed and all 190 people on board, and 7 on the ground died.

So can a fighter pilot fly a commercial airplane? Yes, but not that well.

 

[SalahParking]

Vivek Tulja, Rocket Scientist. Globetrotter. IT Industry Exec.
Updated Jan 8
Yes, of course they can. But do they, can they, make good commercial airline pilots? That’s another question.

I once had a commercial airline pilot fired. I was on a domestic flight in India. As the A-320 I was flying on came in to land, the pilots missed the approach. We must be about a hundred feet from touchdown, when they “stepped on the gas pedal” - as we say in the US - and took off again. Climbed to maybe five hundred feet while making a sharp right turn, then made a sharp left turn, and came in to land from the other end of the runway. (This was not a busy airport.) Our wings were not level until we were above the runway. Then we had a pretty sharp descent and landed with a thud. This landing maneuver was appropriate for a MiG-21 or an F-16 but not for an A-320 with 150 (scared) passengers on board.

As I was exiting the cabin, I asked for the captain’s name. They were reluctant to give it, but I insisted until they relented. Then I wrote to pretty much all the aviation authorities and their higher ups that I could think of to complain about this incidence. Eventually I received a letter stating that the pilot has been taken off flying duties. Later I learned from a family member who too is an ex-Indian Air Force pilot and was a commercial airline pilot at that time that this pilot was an ex-IAF fighter pilot who had been warned multiple times about his flying habits. He also said that what I experienced was hardly unusual and fighter pilots tend to take undue risks with their passenger planes.

Things seem to have changed in the last 10–15 years, but back in the 1980’s or 1990’s, there were very few commercial pilot training schools in the world outside the G-20 countries. As a result, outside of Europe and North America, most commercial pilots were retired Air Force pilots from their respective countries. No doubt, most air force pilots are EXCELLENT pilots, but many have a cowboy attitude towards flying. On multiple occasions I have personally seen them take undue risks with their airplanes. (I have never has such an experience on a US airline or any other major airline in the world.)

Having said all that, if I were on a Delta Airlines B-777, and God Forbid something goes wrong, I’d hope and pray that the pilots in the cockpit are former US Air Force or US Navy pilots. That’s my best chance of survival.
936 Views · 6 Upvotes

 

[SalahParking]

Hachi Ko, former Air Accident Investigator & SME, Air Traffic Ctrl (2004-2012)
Answered Jan 13
Generally speaking… yes, it’s not too much of a problem. Of course, as the previous answers and comments indicate, there is a lot of “un-learning” and “re-learning” that needs to be done. On the plus side, most fighter pilots know a lot more about aerodynamics and energy management than most civilian-trained pilots. That is not intended as a stab at civilian-trained pilots, it’s simply common sense… Civilian pilots are trained to stay well within the aerodynamic limits of the aircraft, whereas fighter pilots are trained to fully explore the very edges of those limits.

I have a good friend — an ex-fighter pilot — who used to do one of those “Simulated Air Combat” deals, where you could go fly against another airplane, in a real airplane, using a “laser tag” type of gun to “shoot down” the other airplane. He noted that it was far easier to get the non-pilots to learn how to win than it was to train the guys who already had their Private Pilot’s license… The non-pilots weren’t afraid to “break the airplane”, whereas the licensed civilian pilots were almost always afraid to push the aircraft’s limits. This highlights the safety culture inherent in civilian pilot training as well as the difference between their training and that of fighter pilots.

So… When you take a fighter pilot and put him into an airliner, he already understands the aerodynamics and how to fly the airplane. Mostly, you just have to get him to “tone it down” a bit. Rather than sharp, sudden corrections… smooth, gentle corrections. I remember doing a former fighter pilot’s Instrument Proficiency Check (IPC), and he was manhandling the airplane all the way down final. He wasn’t doing anything wrong… in fact, he was flying a more precise approach than I would have… but he was shaking the s$#t out of the airplane. After we landed, I told him… “One or two dots is fine. Small, smooth corrections on the ILS. Do your passengers ever get sick?” He answered, “Well, now that you mention it, my wife hates my flying.”
491 Views · 3 Upvotes
H

 

[SalahParking]

SIA shares hit 10.70 today. Going to be 11 soon

 

[johnny333]

SIA shares hit 10.70 today. Going to be 11 soon

I suspect that SIA's share price are up because they are paying dividends.
Ex date: 1st Aug 2017
Pay date: 16th Aug 2017

After 16/8/2017 I wouldn't be surprised if the price falls.

 

[eatshitndie]

Isn't SIA state subsidised
The problem for Sporeans is that these subsidies are targeted for foreigners & not locals

The company I was working allowed one to chose the airline we wanted to use. I initially chose SIA but changed to United because of the advantages. When flying to the US I chose to fly United because they permitted me to make FREE stopovers & I took advantage of their extensive network to visit places like Canada for free, when my final destination was actually the US

When I only wanted to visit Canada & paying from my own pocket I would use "EVA Premium". It is cheaper than business but gives one more leg room than economy class. What impressed me was the care they took of the aerial I purchase in Canada.

I have been retired for years now & usually fly budget when visiting places like Thailand & Indonesia. I was pleasantly surprise whenever Emirates upgraded me, because having flown with SIA I have low expectations :o

However for long haul flights to North America I would take EVA premium. It is a popular way to fly to North America. Just google & you will read the positive reviews.

There is no real reason to use SIA. I used to be a Kris member but I'm not a fan of those frequent flyer programs & prefer the flexibility of being able to chose the schedule & route.

subsidized initially but now it has to show balance sheet like any pubic company after ipo, unlike gulf airlines which continue to receive cash injections with no accountability. anyway, for the direct sfo-sin route, sia is still the best considering the only competition is united. of course, if booked in u.s. fares are cheaper than those booked in sg. it is obviously targeted at the american market.

 

[Papsmearer]

Hachi Ko, former Air Accident Investigator & SME, Air Traffic Ctrl (2004-2012)
Answered Jan 13
Generally speaking… yes, it’s not too much of a problem. Of course, as the previous answers and comments indicate, there is a lot of “un-learning” and “re-learning” that needs to be done. On the plus side, most fighter pilots know a lot more about aerodynamics and energy management than most civilian-trained pilots. That is not intended as a stab at civilian-trained pilots, it’s simply common sense… Civilian pilots are trained to stay well within the aerodynamic limits of the aircraft, whereas fighter pilots are trained to fully explore the very edges of those limits.

I have a good friend — an ex-fighter pilot — who used to do one of those “Simulated Air Combat” deals, where you could go fly against another airplane, in a real airplane, using a “laser tag” type of gun to “shoot down” the other airplane. He noted that it was far easier to get the non-pilots to learn how to win than it was to train the guys who already had their Private Pilot’s license… The non-pilots weren’t afraid to “break the airplane”, whereas the licensed civilian pilots were almost always afraid to push the aircraft’s limits. This highlights the safety culture inherent in civilian pilot training as well as the difference between their training and that of fighter pilots.

So… When you take a fighter pilot and put him into an airliner, he already understands the aerodynamics and how to fly the airplane. Mostly, you just have to get him to “tone it down” a bit. Rather than sharp, sudden corrections… smooth, gentle corrections. I remember doing a former fighter pilot’s Instrument Proficiency Check (IPC), and he was manhandling the airplane all the way down final. He wasn’t doing anything wrong… in fact, he was flying a more precise approach than I would have… but he was shaking the s$#t out of the airplane. After we landed, I told him… “One or two dots is fine. Small, smooth corrections on the ILS. Do your passengers ever get sick?” He answered, “Well, now that you mention it, my wife hates my flying.”
491 Views · 3 Upvotes
H

What's with all your stupid quotes about fighter pilots making bad commercial airline pilots? You do know Sullenberger was a fighter pilot, right? Flew F-4 Phantoms in the USAF.