German Carmakers Diu LTA for Extra Dynamometer Test. SGs to Pay $1k For It!

[Cerebral]

The $500 to $1000 probably refer only to the testing fee paid to the lab. I believe they will be smart enough to send a brand new engine straight from the factory to the lab for testing before assembling it. Therefore, there is no need to waste time and money to remove the engine from an assembled car. After all, each engine has an engine number and can be easily identified.

Just met a friend who has a car. He told me that a major overhaul of the engine which would involve removal of engine block, opening up engine block to rebore the cylinders, replacement of pistons... and reassembling the engine, would cost about $2000 plus. So I guess it would cost less than $2000 to remove and put back a car engine.

Sure or not. Full overhaul including over bore and new pistons only 2k? Which workshop sia? I also want. Do in Malaysia is it

 

[Seee3]

Sure or not. Full overhaul including over bore and new pistons only 2k? Which workshop sia? I also want. Do in Malaysia is it

You are right. It is in Malaysia. Locally workshop won't be bothered with overhaul. They quietly change a second hand engine, and total costs is about 3k plus. 1k for the 2nd hand engine and 2 k for workmanship. So removal of engine and reassembling will still cost only about 2k.

 

[Capano2121]

LTA staff all high IQ elite leh! Still insist diesel engine no good, diesel cars no good and biodiesel no good leh! They constantly keep themselves away from such low tech diesel stuff so they can concentrate on hi tech outdated petroleum engine stuffs!

 

[Cerebral]

LTA staff all high IQ elite leh! Still insist diesel engine no good, diesel cars no good and biodiesel no good leh! They constantly keep themselves away from such low tech diesel stuff so they can concentrate on hi tech outdated petroleum engine stuffs!

I think the issue is deeper than what you described. I think it may have to do with earlier thinking on the road system, where Petrol = Private Cars, Diesel = Industrial Vehicles. They structure different taxation templates on each. Now if cars were to adopt diesel en mass, everything will be upside down. For example, the level of road tax for Petrol Vehicle and Diesel Vehicle is very different.

 

[3_M]

It chasis dyno since all the car spec are base on the result of chasis dyno.

Secondly a chasis dyno test would probably cost 200 to 300 but factor other associate costs like tow truck, LTA documentations, registration fee etc. It probably will be in the region of 500 to 1000.

Lastly no car manufacturer is going to customize a new engine for our small market. Car sold here will share the same engine as same model elsewhere. Only difference is the tuning, car sold here will be tuned down less than the optimal performance of the engine. So what the purpose of doing a engine dyno if it still the same engine?

 

[kukubird58]

It chasis dyno since all the car spec are base on the result of chasis dyno.

Secondly a chasis dyno test would probably cost 200 to 300 but factor other associate costs like tow truck, LTA documentations, registration fee etc. It probably will be in the region of 500 to 1000.

Lastly no car manufacturer is going to customize a new engine for our small market. Car sold here will share the same engine as same model elsewhere. Only difference is the tuning, car sold here will be tuned down less than the optimal performance of the engine. So what the purpose of doing a engine dyno if it still the same engine?

hahaha....where is it stated that it is chasis dyno test???

In June, LTA announced that cars meant to be classified under the Category A
certificate of entitlement (COE) will need to be tested to verify the engine
power outputs declared by their manufacturers.

 

[3_M]

hahaha....where is it stated that it is chasis dyno test???

http://www.sgcarmart.com/news/article.php?AID=10644
The Land Transport Authority (LTA) has announced that by October, new cars to be sold under Category A will be strapped onto a chassis dynamometer to review the power ouput against claimed figures by automakers. In addition, it will also review technical data supplied by importers and dealers through 'independent checks with overseas counterparts' and other resources, reported The Straits Times.

The move comes after a new Certificate of Entitlement (COE) classification was introduced in February where cars sold under Cat A are up to 1,600cc in engine capacity and should produce no more than 130bhp or 97kW. The move was seen to eradicate luxury marques with small engines such as Mercedes-Benz and BMW, who were then dominating the small car category, that was orginally meant for mass produced bread and butter cars.

However, since the new criteria came into effect, dealers of premium models began introducing small cars with 122bhp to maintain their share of the Cat A market.

As such, LTA is taking steps to ensure the cars are actually producing the figures claimed by the automakers. Also, due to the extra procedures, the approval period for new cars would be increased to as much as four months from the current four weeks.

LTA announced the new procedures to motor traders at a meeting yesterday, and the English daily reported that many were not thrilled.

 

[kukubird58]

http://www.sgcarmart.com/news/article.php?AID=10644
The Land Transport Authority (LTA) has announced that by October, new cars to be sold under Category A will be strapped onto a chassis dynamometer to review the power ouput against claimed figures by automakers. In addition, it will also review technical data supplied by importers and dealers through 'independent checks with overseas counterparts' and other resources, reported The Straits Times.

The move comes after a new Certificate of Entitlement (COE) classification was introduced in February where cars sold under Cat A are up to 1,600cc in engine capacity and should produce no more than 130bhp or 97kW. The move was seen to eradicate luxury marques with small engines such as Mercedes-Benz and BMW, who were then dominating the small car category, that was orginally meant for mass produced bread and butter cars.

However, since the new criteria came into effect, dealers of premium models began introducing small cars with 122bhp to maintain their share of the Cat A market.

As such, LTA is taking steps to ensure the cars are actually producing the figures claimed by the automakers. Also, due to the extra procedures, the approval period for new cars would be increased to as much as four months from the current four weeks.

LTA announced the new procedures to motor traders at a meeting yesterday, and the English daily reported that many were not thrilled.

hahaha...thanks for the clarifications.....it is clear now and I stand corrected.
the keyword here is review...you cannot measure the engine output power by doing a chasis dyno test......u can estimate the output power by assuming (x%) for the auxiliary loads and transmission losses....

 

[eatshitndie]

It chasis dyno since all the car spec are base on the result of chasis dyno.

Secondly a chasis dyno test would probably cost 200 to 300 but factor other associate costs like tow truck, LTA documentations, registration fee etc. It probably will be in the region of 500 to 1000.

Lastly no car manufacturer is going to customize a new engine for our small market. Car sold here will share the same engine as same model elsewhere. Only difference is the tuning, car sold here will be tuned down less than the optimal performance of the engine. So what the purpose of doing a engine dyno if it still the same engine?

if it's just chassis dyno, the original article is wrong or unclear to cite "engine power output" as that's typically measured at the flywheel or crankshaft of the engine, which require an engine dyno test. a chassis dyno test measures power to the surface of the drive rollers by the wheels, and accounts for power loss in the drivetrain comprising gearbox, transmission, and differential.

 

[Leongsam]

if it's just chassis dyno, the original article is wrong or unclear to cite "engine power output" as that's typically measured at the flywheel or crankshaft of the engine, which require an engine dyno test. a chassis dyno test measures power to the surface of the drive rollers by the wheels, and accounts for power loss in the drivetrain comprising gearbox, transmission, and differential.

If a chassis dyno test is being used, it's going to be a minefield. There are simply too many variables for this method to be used as a yardstick.

http://www.hotrod.com/techfaq/hrdp_0405_chassis_dyno_guide/viewall.html

Many factors that influence test accuracy are common to all dynos, including engine dynos; these include temperature, airflow, barometric pressure, and torque calibration.

But on chassis dynos, many additional factors can affect the results, factors much harder to control than those typically encountered on an engine dyno. Drivetrain losses vary according to gear selection (testing should usually be performed in the transmission's 1:1 gear to minimize this factor), fluid temperatures, acceleration/ load factors, drivetrain inertia, brake drag, the vehicle tie-down method, the weight over the axle, and tire selection, growth, and slippage.

As TMR's Jeff Bert puts it, "An engine dyno is like weighing yourself with no clothes on; a chassis dyno is like trying to weigh yourself wearing clothes-sometimes you'll have shoes, sometimes pants, sometimes wet clothes, sometimes dry clothes." Although some of the latest dyno software adds sophisticated formulas and assumptions in an attempt to correlate rear-wheel numbers with flywheel numbers, there is really no way to measure, predict, or otherwise determine engine flywheel power from a chassis-dyno test with any repeatable certainty, particularly when using a common acceleration test.

 

[eatshitndie]

If a chassis dyno test is being used, it's going to be a minefield. There are simply too many variables for this method to be used as a yardstick.

exactly. too many variables and discrepancies. it will be a waste of everyone's time if accuracy and benchmarking of results are left to wide interpretation and opinions.

 

[bushtucker]

Just add the $500 to $1000 cost to the selling price of the brand new car.

Sinkies are rich anyway and oblivious to minor price changes.

If they can afford $90k COE, what is $1k to them?

 

[Seee3]

I was shocked to see the report from sgmart and searched LTA web site for confirmation that it is indeed chassis dyno that they are asking from the manufacturer. I couldn't find any write-up pertaining to chassis dyno from LTA site. Instead, i found this slides from LTA.

http://app.lta.gov.sg/data/apps/news/press/2013/20130909_Refinements-to-the-COE-System_Annex-A.pdf

On page 6, it was stated that the power for cat A shall be up to 97 kw (130 BRAKE HORSEPOWER or bhp).

The definition of bhp is the power rating of the engine with nothing attached to it.
( http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_brake_horse_power_of_car_do?) This rating can only be measured by engine dyno.

Therefore, I think it is the ST reporter who may have interpreted that it is "chassis" dyno himself based on his own research.

http://www.sgcarmart.com/news/article.php?AID=10644
The Land Transport Authority (LTA) has announced that by October, new cars to be sold under Category A will be strapped onto a chassis dynamometer to review the power ouput against claimed figures by automakers. In addition, it will also review technical data supplied by importers and dealers through 'independent checks with overseas counterparts' .... .

 

[3_M]

I was shocked to see the report from sgmart and searched LTA web site for confirmation that it is indeed chassis dyno that they are asking from the manufacturer. I couldn't find any write-up pertaining to chassis dyno from LTA site. Instead, i found this slides from LTA.

http://app.lta.gov.sg/data/apps/news/press/2013/20130909_Refinements-to-the-COE-System_Annex-A.pdf

On page 6, it was stated that the power for cat A shall be up to 97 kw (130 BRAKE HORSEPOWER or bhp).

The definition of bhp is the power rating of the engine with nothing attached to it.
( http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_brake_horse_power_of_car_do?) This rating can only be measured by engine dyno.

Therefore, I think it is the ST reporter who may have interpreted that it is "chassis" dyno himself based on his own research.

You are assuming those chaps in LTA knows a lot about car. Fact is they are just morons who don't know anything about cars. So don't crack your brain going too much into technicality. Car spec is always base on chassis Dyno. I seen chart of Dyno test results and it more or less tally with what stated on paper.

 

[Seee3]

You are assuming those chaps in LTA knows a lot about car. Fact is they are just morons who don't know anything about cars. So don't crack your brain going too much into technicality. Car spec is always base on chassis Dyno. I seen chart of Dyno test results and it more or less tally with what stated on paper.

The term brake horsepower is the most fundamental specification of an internal combustion engine that any engineer will look at if he needs to do an evaluation of the engine (not limited to cars). It is a term that any engineer will know. It is of interest to technical guy because the difference between bhp and whp is an indication of the overall efficiency. Hence, it is unlikely that the CEO, himself a naval engineer together with many other engineers in LTA can overlook the definition of bhp when they use it in their official paper.

Like you have mentioned, the spec given by manufacturer is wheel horsepower, determined by chassis dyno test. A number of local workshops do chassis dyno runs for car lovers who mod their car to increase the power. The cost is about $100 per hour. Therefore, the reporter may have approach one of these car lovers for more info on dyno test. To this guy, it would automatically means chassis dyno and wheel horsepower.

Furthermore, since chassis dyno tests are readily available and is not very costly, there is no reason for the manufacturer to protest. However, if it is engine dyno, it will be troublesome and the true power of the engine will be revealed which will knock the model out of cat A.

 

[Papsmearer]

hahaha...thanks for the clarifications.....it is clear now and I stand corrected.
the keyword here is review...you cannot measure the engine output power by doing a chasis dyno test......u can estimate the output power by assuming (x%) for the auxiliary loads and transmission losses....

Yeah, u are always standing corrected, u brainless cunt. This is not the first time. U need to stop swallowing all the bangla sperm, its fucking with what little brains u have left.

 

[kukubird58]

Yeah, u are always standing corrected, u brainless cunt. This is not the first time. U need to stop swallowing all the bangla sperm, its fucking with what little brains u have left.

hahaha....ok, I am brainless cunt...
now can you tell us who is lky's mistress and illegitimate son so that I can fxxk off from sbf forever....
if you cannot then you are really shameless cunt to keep on making all sorts of wild allegations...phui.

 

[topspin]

hahaha....ok, I am brainless cunt...
now can you tell us who is lky's mistress and illegitimate son so that I can fxxk off from sbf forever....
if you cannot then you are really shameless cunt to keep on making all sorts of wild allegations...phui.

If there is such a person then it must be this cunt Papsmearer the anyhow bash retard.

 

[kukubird58]

hahaha....from LTA's letter/clarification, they are talking about engine output bhp....not chassis power.
engines of first in class (new models) entering Singapore market will be tested.....

Engines are major components of any vehicles, ships and planes.....
the technical specs of the vehicles in the marketing brochures always refer to the engine output bhp.....

All engines are specs based on certain environmental conditions and fuel specs and there are established ways to correlate the results to prevailing test conditions...
I have attended many marine engines factory acceptance tests (FATs) in different countries (Germany, Italy, uk, spain, korea, japan, china and Ukraine (gas engines)).....
the tests are conducted according to requirements of the different Classification societies....
the first in Class is subjected to more stringent testings know as Type Approval test..
all other engine is individually tested to determine the output bhp and fuel consumption...