Full Interview Transcript with Old Man and Nat Geo - Worth the Read

[elephanto]

Wow, Bro Scroobal, as usual your breadth of knowledge always make me wonder abt yr age & background...

It's true the famed author they first earmarked as Nantah principal was a great disappointment. Tan Lark Sye spent lots of money to get his prized catch yet was utterly horrified when this joker put up a ridiculous budget including employing cronies etc. Humiliated, Tan Lark Sye have to eat humble pie & ask this chap to get lost - still pay 6-figure sum as early termination compensation! Then Pan Shou (the famous Cultural Medallion Winner in later years) who was the original brain-trust & trusted secretary of Tan, got back his role as behind-the-scene Nantah blueprint worker.

Meng Seng, I respectfully disagree with your stand but can empathize with your romantic wish of Nantah 'evolving' into a linguistic oasis, that certain Nantah grads' English also have 'evolved' to a higher level etc etc. Maybe, you really do know some of these rare successes. (somehow, Tang Liang Hong comes to mind....)

Yet, the truth is - the truth.

The market doesn't lie.
The invisible hand always works.
Nantah grads - most are bitter, I empathize - they are either teachers, some civil servants, work in Chinese press or Bank of China (like me once)...
as a result many turn to run own business (like Low Thia Kang etc).

I too love my Chinese language & heritage.

But out of entrepot heritage to survive against our neighbours' declared efforts to bypass us - the PAP economic strategy provided the best course arguably.

So Chinese parents send their children to English schools - Nantah grads show HSC cert instead of degree - what Scroobal mentioned is true - that Joint Campus Grads given a choice do not want to receive Nantah degrees knowing its market rep & economic value...

All these are unsentimental & harsh truths.

You may think it takes a lot of dough to start a University. But that's just the start.

The cost to run & maintain a University is humongous.

Faced with declining applicants, M'sian alumni wants to increase intake of M'sian students. But economically, it is not feasible - becos M'sian Govt do not subsidize their own undergrads, after seperation, it is untenable for Spore Govt to subsidize M'sian students.

Nantah, like the Chinese pri sch scene, faced slow but certain death.

I agree fully with Scroobal's opening analysis of Nantah's founding - there is heavy chauvinistic agenda, not to mention communist & other subversive undertones all camouflaged by call to cultural pride & racial heritage.

But knowing you Goh Meng Seng, respectfully, we can agree to disagree about Nantah's closure.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

It is a nice discussion here and we will agree to disagree.

Scroobal did provide a good perspective on historical records but Nantah wasn't the only one with political activism. In fact, the famous Tan Wah Piao was from University of Malaya, not Nantah.

As a person who has been studying in a "converted" Chinese school (into SAP), I would not agree that Chinese schools are lacking behind in standards. In fact, Chinese schools were more rigorous in their teaching, though to some extend, guilty of rote learning.

There were of course many students who have forsake their studies and participated in political activities in Nantah. But as for any universities, there were many talented people graduated from it as well. If you make comparison between Tang Liang Hong and Ong Ah Heng will demonstrate what I mean.

I have known quite a number of professors who further their studies in foreign lands but they are from Nantah. Most of them speak three languages. Language does not seem to be an obstacle for their learning, just like those students from PRCs studying here in present days.

As for what Scroobal say about government service "forced" to take in Nantah graduates, I suspect many of them were "professional students". IN those days, if you want to study in university like Nantah, you will need to get a certificate of suitability. Some students were asked to be "professional students" aka student spies. If they refused, they will be deprived of such certification and they will miss out their tertiary education. Those who accepted, most of them were "rewarded" after graduation by given the opportunity to work in civil service.

I have known of people who refused to be student spy and eventually deprived of the necessary certification to get into Nantah.

Market force will dictate the viability of the university, that's true enough. And the university will have to evolve if they want to stay relevant to their environment. That is why I believe Nantah could well evolve to stay relevant. There is no necessity for a FORCED closure. If it did not evolve, it will definitely die a natural death.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Charlie9]

Hopefully We will Meet within this Decade

Bro, its really bizarre that interviews with foreign correspondents are many time more informative than anything that one reads in the local press. Even his autobiography is sanitized.

One day hopefully we will meet.

I believe that almost everything in SG is sanitized, perhaps, too sanitized.
There are not many individuals, whom I desire to meet in the near future: the fading retired 85+ Justice L. Houlden (formerly a Justice with the Court of Appeal for Ontario, and who helped me significantly after he retired) {I will probably visit him at his home at West end Toronto, early in the new year}, [scroobal], my mother and siblings.

 

[eatshitndie]

there's a sizable cohort of former nantah grads in the bay area. most of them are taiwanese and ex-sinkies who emigrated to taiwan when the old traitor destroyed the old brand name. it's like pulling the rug under an alumni of accomplished individuals with years of tradition and pride. (try doing that to beijing u or fudan; even the commies care not to take established brand names down.) many of the grads became successful entrepreuners and went on to establish companies and start-ups here and in taiwan. many have not forgotten and forgiven. that old faggot who is not an entrepreuner but an enter-pruner or uber-paranoia is not welcome here.

 

[scroobal]

Bro, couple of things

1) You are talking about a few exceptionally smart students but generally the standards fell drastically because both the student population and the lecturers were occupied by political events. Especially the nonsense that was going on in Malaysia. The entire university paid the price for it.

2) The professional spies were not part of the batch that were taken into the Civil Service Sr Ranks. Nobody in his right mind will put spies in such positions as a reward. Interestingly as you had come to the notion, many others did and these exceptional talents from Nantah became ostracised by ex-Uni mates for supporting the Govt and being spies. Former Perm Sec Ram Chandra grromed such a chap in the Land Office who went on to do a sterling job. He struggled in his early as he did not have english but he more than made up for it by his technical skills and during those days, Land office was crucial for infrastructure development.

The spies ended up in ISD, PA, Unions etc. I am sure they preferred that as well.

3) If you read the history of how Nantah came about, tears would certainly flow when you read how "flower girls" in Chinatown collected donations etc. It was unfortunate that Nantah went the way it was. Removing the emotions, and being practical they did not have fair grasp of English to be effective in a country that kept English as the working medium unlike the rest of Far East.

The easiest thing to do was let Nantah continue. Its enrollment was falling and more and more Malaysians were taking their places. Not that there were not enough singapore students, it was because parents were pushing them to English schools for obvious reasons. The final political push came from one interesting source - the influential Chinese educated PAP cadres.

You ask any OMS scholarship student where he wants to go for his education and believe me, except for Japan there are no takers for the Far East. The few that accepted were cajoled. One can continue to pretend to run a university by accepting sub-standard student because capable students are going elsewhere.

I will give you an interesting example. Catholic High, a chinese stream school at Queens street where old man sent his kids, in every cohort they could not come up with students to cover all the fingers of one hand when it came to having a decent conversation in English under the old system. This was until 1980/81. This was one of the elite schools. They were very well mannered and raised with good values and were taught in a pastrol setting. Monfort a sister Catholic school is on English stream and in the then ulu Hougang had seen its enrollment picked up in the 70s and nearly all came from non english speaking background. They went on to take very senior positions. The same with St Gaberial at Upper Seranggoon. Same stock, same background but different outcomes.

I have known quite a number of professors who further their studies in foreign lands but they are from Nantah. Most of them speak three languages. Language does not seem to be an obstacle for their learning, just like those students from PRCs studying here in present days.

As for what Scroobal say about government service "forced" to take in Nantah graduates, I suspect many of them were "professional students". IN those days, if you want to study in university like Nantah, you will need to get a certificate of suitability. Some students were asked to be "professional students" aka student spies. If they refused, they will be deprived of such certification and they will miss out their tertiary education. Those who accepted, most of them were "rewarded" after graduation by given the opportunity to work in civil service.

I have known of people who refused to be student spy and eventually deprived of the necessary certification to get into Nantah.

Market force will dictate the viability of the university, that's true enough. And the university will have to evolve if they want to stay relevant to their environment. That is why I believe Nantah could well evolve to stay relevant. There is no necessity for a FORCED closure. If it did not evolve, it will definitely die a natural death.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[scroobal]

Bro, forgot to add, Edwin Lee's book is indeed excellent. No sound all his time in the History Department and then he comes up with the best history book on Singapore ever. Very incisive.

Would recommend to all other forummers as a must read.

.

 

[scroobal]

Because of its history and the fact that funding came from the Chinese disapora in Nanyang, they should have cut down the enrollment and made it the seat of Chinese education but not as an entry level university. No one identifies the present NTU with Nantah. I paid a visit when the first intake of 2nd year engineering grads from NUS went on to NTU. The atmosphere was totally different. They had also used it as a hostel for Asean A level students and it looked like a cheap private tuition centre.

An attempt should be made to recover it past by injecting talent and scope by twinning with Beijing Uni or similar. The Maths and Science in Beijing Uni are unbelievable.

there's a sizable cohort of former nantah grads in the bay area. most of them are taiwanese and ex-sinkies who emigrated to taiwan when the old traitor destroyed the old brand name. it's like pulling the rug under an alumni of accomplished individuals with years of tradition and pride. (try doing that to beijing u or fudan; even the commies care not to take established brand names down.) many of the grads became successful entrepreuners and went on to establish companies and start-ups here and in taiwan. many have not forgotten and forgiven. that old faggot who is not an entrepreuner but an enter-pruner or uber-paranoia is not welcome here.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Here is the local media's spin on the interview... after two whole weeks....

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1027947/1/.html



Social cohesion key to keeping Singapore going: MM Lee
By Imelda Saad, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 31 December 2009 2008 hrs


Photos 1 of 1

Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew (file picture)


Related News
• Transcript of Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew's interview with National Geographic

SINGAPORE : Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew has expressed concerns over how the younger generation may be less driven compared to the growing number of foreigners in the country.

Speaking in a wide-ranging interview with the National Geographic magazine, Mr Lee said recent immigrants are hungry and determined to succeed.

Mr Lee noted that if Singaporeans do not work hard, they may lose out.

But he pointed out that Singapore needs a constant inflow of foreigners because of the country's small population.

Giving an overview of Singapore's development over the years, Mr Lee noted one of the country's biggest challenge is to ensure a more cohesive and better educated society at all levels.

He said Singapore is in a good position at least for the next 10 years with the current leadership in place.

For the long term, it will depend on whether there is a younger team imbibed with the same integrity and ability.

Mr Lee said his task is to ensure institutions and systems are in place. - CNA/ms

 

[normalsingaporean]

To cut a story short, I will have to disagree with your conclusion that the termiation of Nantah was wrong. There is no way that Nantah was able to survive without going through a big overhaul. Economically, Singapore was unable to support it anyway.

As for SAP schools, it is a totally different proposition. It is akin to comparing overhauling a single block vs overhaul an estate the size of Ang Mo Kio. Moreover, SAP schools are basically normal secondary schools with a CL1. Nothing more, nothing less.

From: Alumni of SAP

It is a nice discussion here and we will agree to disagree.

Scroobal did provide a good perspective on historical records but Nantah wasn't the only one with political activism. In fact, the famous Tan Wah Piao was from University of Malaya, not Nantah.

As a person who has been studying in a "converted" Chinese school (into SAP), I would not agree that Chinese schools are lacking behind in standards. In fact, Chinese schools were more rigorous in their teaching, though to some extend, guilty of rote learning.

There were of course many students who have forsake their studies and participated in political activities in Nantah. But as for any universities, there were many talented people graduated from it as well. If you make comparison between Tang Liang Hong and Ong Ah Heng will demonstrate what I mean.

I have known quite a number of professors who further their studies in foreign lands but they are from Nantah. Most of them speak three languages. Language does not seem to be an obstacle for their learning, just like those students from PRCs studying here in present days.

As for what Scroobal say about government service "forced" to take in Nantah graduates, I suspect many of them were "professional students". IN those days, if you want to study in university like Nantah, you will need to get a certificate of suitability. Some students were asked to be "professional students" aka student spies. If they refused, they will be deprived of such certification and they will miss out their tertiary education. Those who accepted, most of them were "rewarded" after graduation by given the opportunity to work in civil service.

I have known of people who refused to be student spy and eventually deprived of the necessary certification to get into Nantah.

Market force will dictate the viability of the university, that's true enough. And the university will have to evolve if they want to stay relevant to their environment. That is why I believe Nantah could well evolve to stay relevant. There is no necessity for a FORCED closure. If it did not evolve, it will definitely die a natural death.

Goh Meng Seng