Forest City

[sgtsk]

On the contrary, the proximity of Forest to Tuas Industrial is definitely NOT a plus point at all.
I wonder if those buyers into Forest City are aware that the bright lights on Singapore side that the see from their homes on the reclaimed islands, which is only about a football field length away, are actually lights from polluting heavy industries including shipyards and petrochemical plants and many are working 24/7.
These are all considered obnoxious industries that's why they are all located in the furthest western end of Singapore and yet, Forest City is just next door.

This is definitely a serious health concern. I wonder if the sentisa cove people are in any way affected by petrol chemical plants on nearby jurong island.

 

[mpan12]

Toxic fumes? The China developers don't care. Got lots of money, just throw!

If you've read the recent newspaper article, a Chinese developer (think it was Country Garden) commented they don't wait for buyers. They build first and buyers go to them. This implies they don't give a damn whether there is a market for residential properties or not. Just build. Have or don't have, they are not afraid.

It shows one thing: How damn bloody rich they are.

But it also proves another very important point: How dangerously uncertain the future of Iskandar property market is. There is no proper planning at all. All we see are these China fellas coming in with huge money, the Iskandar Malaysia authorities' tongues start watering and wagging, and then sell the land to them. God knows who will buy such properties, if there is enough demand for them, and if it's even a safe location (toxic fumes, for eg)

Let's hope not many from Singapore will fall for the herd mentality this time round compared to the last CG Danga Bay sale back in 2013. They should have heard enough about the glut and massive oversupply of properties coming up in Iskandar.

 

[Frodo]

Toxic fumes? The China developers don't care. Got lots of money, just throw!

If you've read the recent newspaper article, a Chinese developer (think it was Country Garden) commented they don't wait for buyers. They build first and buyers go to them. This implies they don't give a damn whether there is a market for residential properties or not. Just build. Have or don't have, they are not afraid.

It shows one thing: How damn bloody rich they are.

But it also proves another very important point: How dangerously uncertain the future of Iskandar property market is. There is no proper planning at all. All we see are these China fellas coming in with huge money, the Iskandar Malaysia authorities' tongues start watering and wagging, and then sell the land to them. God knows who will buy such properties, if there is enough demand for them, and if it's even a safe location (toxic fumes, for eg)

Let's hope not many from Singapore will fall for the herd mentality this time round compared to the last CG Danga Bay sale back in 2013. They should have heard enough about the glut and massive oversupply of properties coming up in Iskandar.

When talking about glut of properties, what percentage of it is due to mega mass condo projects like Forest City, Country Gardens and Princess Cove? If these three China projects make up a significant part of the glut, then it may mean that those single or twin tower condos will see better days.

 

[Investor888]

That's why I only stick to Puteri Harbour condos. The environment is so serene and protected and the other side of the coast is Singapore's most protected & guarded reserves. Huat Ah!

When talking about glut of properties, what percentage of it is due to mega mass condo projects like Forest City, Country Gardens and Princess Cove? If these three China projects make up a significant part of the glut, then it may mean that those single or twin tower condos will see better days.

 

[mpan12]

When talking about glut of properties, what percentage of it is due to mega mass condo projects like Forest City, Country Gardens and Princess Cove? If these three China projects make up a significant part of the glut, then it may mean that those single or twin tower condos will see better days.

I think when people talk about "glut" in Iskandar, they are referring collectively to all the properties there, especially the high rise condos.

Most are familiar with the notorious projects by the China developers such as Forest City and Danga Bay. Cos for eg, CG Danga Bay has like what...9,000 units? That's massive for an untested area. So they often use this classic example to showcase the glut.

But what many in the street are not so familiar is that in the Danga Bay area itself, there are many more other condos being built or construction is withheld for now due to the slow market. To track down all the condos being built now in Iskandar or slated to be built in the next few years is mind boggling. Just focusing in one area itself, eg Medini, will already yield like tens of thousands units. There is little economic demand or industralization in the areas to keep up with these huge numbers of residential units being built at one go.

 

[freekazoid]

Correction - Medini don't have tens of thousands residential units. Far far far from it....do your homework dude.

Another thing on Toxic fumes many seem to happily use as a bashing point. Is there any evidence Singapore gov turn a blind eye of toxic fumes risking Singaporean live, work, school at west Singapore for past years and many more years to come.

 

[xebay11]

Correction - Medini don't have tens of thousands residential units. Far far far from it....do your homework dude.

Another thing on Toxic fumes many seem to happily use as a bashing point. Is there any evidence Singapore gov turn a blind eye of toxic fumes risking Singaporean live, work, school at west Singapore for past years and many more years to come.

Let you won, you are always welcome to live at FC and ignore the issue of toxic fumes. Happy?

 

[ECboy]

Let you won, you are always welcome to live at FC and ignore the issue of toxic fumes. Happy?

Toxic fumes everywhere but nothing super hazardous. Unless you stay near mines or waste disposal facilities. Maybe the worry will be more on the passing ships which carry god knows what. I used to stay in corporation road and always smell chocolate :p

 

[mpan12]

Correction - Medini don't have tens of thousands residential units. Far far far from it....do your homework dude.

Another thing on Toxic fumes many seem to happily use as a bashing point. Is there any evidence Singapore gov turn a blind eye of toxic fumes risking Singaporean live, work, school at west Singapore for past years and many more years to come.

Opps. My bad then. At least 8-10 projects the last I counted. Some are mixed developments. I should think the total number of units as of now is about 8,000-9,000? That's still A LOT. Not even counting those from nearby Puteri Harbour side.

I pointed out toxic fumes cos someone here raise that question. Seriously I don't care cos I won't even touch a place like Forest City. The point is, these developers just buy up land and build build build.

 

[Frodo]

I think when people talk about "glut" in Iskandar, they are referring collectively to all the properties there, especially the high rise condos.

Most are familiar with the notorious projects by the China developers such as Forest City and Danga Bay. Cos for eg, CG Danga Bay has like what...9,000 units? That's massive for an untested area. So they often use this classic example to showcase the glut.

But what many in the street are not so familiar is that in the Danga Bay area itself, there are many more other condos being built or construction is withheld for now due to the slow market. To track down all the condos being built now in Iskandar or slated to be built in the next few years is mind boggling. Just focusing in one area itself, eg Medini, will already yield like tens of thousands units. There is little economic demand or industralization in the areas to keep up with these huge numbers of residential units being built at one go.

To talk about a glut collectively without making any differentiation or distinction between the mega mass condo projects and those one/two tower condos would not be considered as unbiased view. Putting aside the fact that the mega projects have a much longer gestation period, even if all the projects were completed in 2018, it would not be the case that all condos will face the same doom. The Astaka condo would probably fare better than the Country Garden one, for example. There are so called better and more desirable projects which may yield positive returns compared to others. I do not have the figured to make any further comment but perhaps someone may be able to throw light on what proportion of the over supply these mega mass condos contribute to.

 

[freekazoid]

Opps. My bad then. At least 8-10 projects the last I counted. Some are mixed developments. I should think the total number of units as of now is about 8,000-9,000? That's still A LOT. Not even counting those from nearby Puteri Harbour side.

Forest City planned for 23 towers / 7096 units over 4 phases. You should very happy got these crazy china developers to fuel your criticism.


On Medini the most well planned business district area ever. Give credit where it deserved.

From 2009 - Today Over 7 Years period is well under 7k units (left out a couple projects) for a DISTRICT, not a 9k unit just for C&G DangaBay single condo complex.
Afiniti - 147
Iskandar Residence - 640
Grand Medini - 672
Elysia Park - 987
One Medini - 544
Medini Signature - 456
Paradiso Nuova - 382
DPristine - 1187
Meridin - 756
One Medini Garden Villa - 18

 

[snowbird]

To talk about a glut collectively without making any differentiation or distinction between the mega mass condo projects and those one/two tower condos would not be considered as unbiased view. Putting aside the fact that the mega projects have a much longer gestation period, even if all the projects were completed in 2018, it would not be the case that all condos will face the same doom. The Astaka condo would probably fare better than the Country Garden one, for example. There are so called better and more desirable projects which may yield positive returns compared to others. I do not have the figured to make any further comment but perhaps someone may be able to throw light on what proportion of the over supply these mega mass condos contribute to.

The market is all about supply and demand and if this equation is well balanced, then everything is fine.
However, if one variable grossly tips the scale, then problem starts.
For example, we saw first hand 5 years ago in SG when the demand in HDB outpaced the supply, resulting in long waiting time and high resale prices, causing public unhappiness and anger.
This same problem is also happening right now in MY when the govt failed to deliver the number of units for the lower income group by a larger shortfall.

Over at the private housing development in MY, especially in JB, the situation is plain over-supply or you can say glut.
An over-supply is measured by the number of unsold units in relation to the overall development.
Example are mega projects like Country Garden and Princess Cove where after their launch 2,3 years ago, together, there are still an abundant of unsold units.
This, coupled with another thousands of resale units from recently completed development just make the situation even worse.

 

[xebay11]

The market is all about supply and demand and if this equation is well balanced, then everything is fine.
However, if one variable grossly tips the scale, then problem starts.
For example, we saw first hand 5 years ago in SG when the demand in HDB outpaced the supply, resulting in long waiting time and high resale prices, causing public unhappiness and anger.
This same problem is also happening right now in MY when the govt failed to deliver the number of units for the lower income group by a larger shortfall.

Over at the private housing development in MY, especially in JB, the situation is plain over-supply or you can say glut.
An over-supply is measured by the number of unsold units in relation to the overall development.
Example are mega projects like Country Garden and Princess Cove where after their launch 2,3 years ago, together, there are still an abundant of unsold units.
This, coupled with another thousands of resale units from recently completed development just make the situation even worse.

That's why I advocate rent, no rush for me to buy until the smoke clears and also to see if I really can live in JB. It really requires a big adjustment.

 

[Frodo]

The market is all about supply and demand and if this equation is well balanced, then everything is fine.
However, if one variable grossly tips the scale, then problem starts.
For example, we saw first hand 5 years ago in SG when the demand in HDB outpaced the supply, resulting in long waiting time and high resale prices, causing public unhappiness and anger.
This same problem is also happening right now in MY when the govt failed to deliver the number of units for the lower income group by a larger shortfall.

Over at the private housing development in MY, especially in JB, the situation is plain over-supply or you can say glut.
An over-supply is measured by the number of unsold units in relation to the overall development.
Example are mega projects like Country Garden and Princess Cove where after their launch 2,3 years ago, together, there are still an abundant of unsold units.
This, coupled with another thousands of resale units from recently completed development just make the situation even worse.

But just saying glut without making differentiation is to assume that all condos are equal, which is simply not true. Different people will be affected differently depending on which project they bought into.

 

[snowbird]

But just saying glut without making differentiation is to assume that all condos are equal, which is simply not true. Different people will be affected differently depending on which project they bought into.

Nothing is equal and every project has its own merit and plus points that's why some sell better than others.
Some may sell as much as 90% while some only manage 40% during the launching.
Location, pricing, facilities, developer's reputation, project design, economic situation etc. all also play an important part in moving the units.
But market sentiment is based on the overall sales so, a sold-out project in certain part of the city doesn't translate as a strong demand.

 

[sgtsk]

Perhaps what happen at Dubai could be an indication of the possibles in Iskandar.

Dubai has just around 2.5 m population and there are some 200k from China as part of the 85% foreign population. Iskandar is much nearer to China than Dubai. If iskandar could provide for the needs of Chinese investors as Dubai, may be it is possible to sell the seemingly oversupply of real estates in iskandar and this explains the confidence of China developers.

 

[freekazoid]

Perhaps what happen at Dubai could be an indication of the possibles in Iskandar.

Dubai has just around 2.5 m population and there are some 200k from China as part of the 85% foreign population. Iskandar is much nearer to China than Dubai. If iskandar could provide for the needs of Chinese investors as Dubai, may be it is possible to sell the seemingly oversupply of real estates in iskandar and this explains the confidence of China developers.

Didn't know this....amazing indeed. 200k chinese of an average set of parent and a child. 200,000 / 3 = 66666 condo unit demand! They better build fast...shortage is real.

 

[Frodo]

Nothing is equal and every project has its own merit and plus points that's why some sell better than others.
Some may sell as much as 90% while some only manage 40% during the launching.
Location, pricing, facilities, developer's reputation, project design, economic situation etc. all also play an important part in moving the units.
But market sentiment is based on the overall sales so, a sold-out project in certain part of the city doesn't translate as a strong demand.

Which is exactly my point, but critics seem to use a broad brush to say that buying JB property is confirmed loss, regardless. Simply because of glut.

 

[snowbird]

Which is exactly my point, but critics seem to use a broad brush to say that buying JB property is confirmed loss, regardless. Simply because of glut.

But exactly what is your point?
The currently situation is self explained - there is a huge stock of unsold units now and aren't moving much.
Why?
Because there aren't enough buyers to take up the units while many investors already have few units on hand, waiting to dispose them.
BUT buying now may not means it'll be a loss for many reasons.
If buying for self stay, its a good time to enter and go for a solid bargain and lotsa freebies thrown in.
The prices had kinda peaked in late 2014 and softening now so buying now may means a hefty discount.
BUT if you are buying to flip, then good luck and if you don't have a deep enough pocket, you'll burn yourself badly.
So is buying JB property now a confirmed loss?
Maybe, depends on the buyers intention.

 

[Frodo]

But exactly what is your point?
The currently situation is self explained - there is a huge stock of unsold units now and aren't moving much.
Why?
Because there aren't enough buyers to take up the units while many investors already have few units on hand, waiting to dispose them.
BUT buying now may not means it'll be a loss for many reasons.
If buying for self stay, its a good time to enter and go for a solid bargain and lotsa freebies thrown in.
The prices had kinda peaked in late 2014 and softening now so buying now may means a hefty discount.
BUT if you are buying to flip, then good luck and if you don't have a deep enough pocket, you'll burn yourself badly.
So is buying JB property now a confirmed loss?
Maybe, depends on the buyers intention.

Huh? My point is that just because there is a glut it does not mean those who bought or intend to buy sure die. It also depends on what and where you buy, and even why you buy. Is the glut caused by mega mass condo projects? Like I said, if you buy a mega mass condo project it would not be ideal compared to something like the Astaka. And just because mega mass condo projects are selling slow does not mean all other condo projects also sell slow or cannot sell.