First class and Second class citizens

[kakowi]

Tell me how the lack of freedom, the fear of authority, the strict regime that cuts down people's lifestyle, the lack of participation in daily decision-making, the pettiness of the people affect the quality of life in Singapore.

I am not arguing with you. It is just that as an Aussie, if I have to live abroad in Singapore, I am afraid that these will affect the quality of my life too

...

Actually these specifically named aspects of the PAP and of Singaporeans do not bother me. In that my own quality of life is not affected by these specific factors.

But for completeness i need to examine the issues involved in stepping out.

So far, there is no thread that does this deliberate comparison between here and there, to my knowledge.

So, i believe this is a good start - when we step out, are we stepping out to a better life?

.....

If i can ask more specifically, if there is no gun control, etc, etc...

(1) "do you feel safe?"

(2) "if any of loved ones come back a bit late and it is getting dark, handphone battery flat, will you get unduly worried about their physical safety?"

​

Thus it is not about a comparison on crime rates and the likelihood of violent crimes in singapore versus other cities.

It is more about your psychic comfort in the new city - hey, i feel safe and those factors on gun licensing, soft drugs do not bother me in the same way as the lack of freedom do not bother other singaporeans. Oh, there are some out-of-boundary areas here and there, but so long as i do not venture to those areas, everyone can hold guns and do soft drugs for all i care.

If that is true, it is a major plus given the realities of a big country.

 

[IWC2006]

Actually these specifically named aspects of the PAP and of Singaporeans do not bother me. In that my own quality of life is not affected by these specific factors.

But for completeness i need to examine the issues involved in stepping out.

So far, there is no thread that does this deliberate comparison between here and there, to my knowledge.

So, i believe this is a good start - when we step out, are we stepping out to a better life?

.....

If i can ask more specifically, if there is no gun control, etc, etc...

(1) "do you feel safe?"

(2) "if any of loved ones come back a bit late and it is getting dark, handphone battery flat, will you get unduly worried about their physical safety?"

​

Thus it is not about a comparison on crime rates and the likelihood of violent crimes in singapore versus other cities.

It is more about your psychic comfort in the new city - hey, i feel safe and those factors on gun licensing, soft drugs do not bother me in the same way as the lack of freedom do not bother other singaporeans. Oh, there are some out-of-boundary areas here and there, but so long as i do not venture to those areas, everyone can hold guns and do soft drugs for all i care.

If that is true, it is a major plus given the realities of a big country.

Kakowi,

To start with, why not ask yourself what you dislike about Spore or living in Spore. what is the pull factor?

Emigration is not for the faint-hearted, or one with a weak-mind. It won't be smooth sailing no matter how well you plan.

Gunshot / high crime rate is expected in bigger cities with so many different culture and social class blend together,
I don't live in the city but I do hang out once in a while in sydney city. i can safety say walking in the city at night is as safe as walking in Orchard Road. One nite me & my mate was walking past midnite after a drink from the harbour area for 20 mins to the central city where I parked my car, there's still many people on the streets and we even bought some grocieris from the supermart on the way. There's some part of the city you have to be careful but most are pretty safe. So what is great deal about Spore's safety?

However, I can't say the same for United States. When I was on business trips in San Francisco couple of years ago, I always felt unsafe walking on the street at nite along with the many homeless and drunkards around.


Emigration is not solely based on comparison on a few factors. U must be willing to take some risks and spend sometime in the country you choose

 

[Satan]

However, I can't say the same for United States. When I was on business trips in San Francisco couple of years ago, I always felt unsafe walking on the street at nite along with the many homeless and drunkards around.

I couldn't agree more with you here. I was all right when I was in California but when I used to work in Atlanta, I was really able to feel it. The place where I stayed had more black population so when you go out, there's every chance where some idiot would point a gun at you and ask you for money. If you carry a large sum, you'll lose big but if you don't have anything, the idiot might get angry and blow your head off as well. The ideal thing to do is to carry $30-$40 with you whenever you go out.

 

[neddy]

If i can ask more specifically, if there is no gun control, etc, etc...

(1) "do you feel safe?"

(2) "if any of loved ones come back a bit late and it is getting dark, handphone battery flat, will you get unduly worried about their physical safety?"

​

I can only say for my city, but it is a small one. Basically, we feel safe in the city. Usually, we are not unduly worried about their physical safety if they are going out with friends. Usually, locals are more independent.

Every cities have their problem spots. For mine, it is train stations.
I will not allow loved ones to take trains at night because the train stations are usually unmanned and in remote locations. Drunks and losers sometimes loiter around the area. If they have to take train, I will be waiting at the station. This is even though Transit Police are patrolling the stations and trains. Because, once they leave the stations, it is no longer safe.

Usually, parents will take turn to chaperone the kids to events.

After living here for so long, going around the place is no difference from when I am in Singapore. We don't go around feeling guarded or paranoid about safety.

But at night, we do avoid areas where the losers live ... you will know where, all the windows and doors of the shops are heavily grilled, and graffitti all over the place.

There are still heaps of civics actions around ...

1. Traffic give ways to ducks crossing the road to find food. Those Singaporeans who study in UWA would have noticed this near QEII hospital.

2. There is a sense that Asians origins are more safety conscious than those who have been here a long time. You will not find me leaving my car keys, handbags around an unattended table while ordering food.​

 

[neddy]

I couldn't agree more with you here. I was all right when I was in California but when I used to work in Atlanta, I was really able to feel it. The place where I stayed had more black population so when you go out, there's every chance where some idiot would point a gun at you and ask you for money. If you carry a large sum, you'll lose big but if you don't have anything, the idiot might get angry and blow your head off as well. The ideal thing to do is to carry $30-$40 with you whenever you go out.

I almost got myself in trouble in the Civics Center in San Francisco.
In Paris Metro, conmen like to target Asians, but they left me alone when I wear a business suit.

 

[kakowi]

Thanks guys.

Well, in the course of my life i had travelled extensively to some parts of the United States, Europe and Asia. But ironically i had not been to the premier countries favoured by migrants - Canada, Australia (only once), New Zealand

Work and actually living as a native are very different things, i feel. The former is staying in luxurious hotels, good expense accounts and amongst people who are delighted to be associated with you. The lattar is where you find yourself subjected to government laws, local prejudices, local gossips and amongst people who may view you with suspicion initially -hopefully.

And it is this lattar part that is of concern.

But friends who migrated successfully shared with me of a lifestyle that is enviable - neighbours who interact reasonably well, a life of greater freedom, greater sense of empowerment to express yourself and actualize your life.

Though taxation is high, there are tax shelters and a sense of dignity of having your medical and old age matters, children education and police protection taken care of to a reasonably higher degree.

The political stability and good political parties also mean that the system is not abused by the politicians themselves.

There are also drawbacks.

The number of ethnic middle-easterners flooding into certain segments of Australia cause some social tension as they moved in large family groups and live off the dole.

The east Asia gangs who took advantage of loopholes and establish bases there.

Some of the natives who took advantage of the system to life a life of idleness.

As for safety (guns, soft drugs, etc), none of those i spoken to express any concern out of the ordinary. Just don't get into arguments with others, avoid known crime areas, avoid the subway after a certain time. Essentially common sense matters.

As for adjustments, it all depends on your motives. Some of the more successful migrants do not think of themselves as migrants. They think, talk, feel like a native. They go on a deliberate course of assimilation. Their successes are a reflection of this attitude. One of them even ended up as a professor in a US university that has a far higher ranking than NUS.

Thus success stories abound - from the homemaker adjusting, the workers who forged for themselves an ability to earn a living there. The key, they told me, is to be flexible, humble and friendly. As in all good advices, i do not know what they are talking about until recently when i took a look at this issue.

These are my learnings to-date.

I share them in the hope that it will also be beneficial to some.

 

[IWC2006]

Yes, being flexible and open to the world is something a lot of Sporeans can't seem to adapt. I've pretty well travelled so for me making adjustment is not an issue (been to Europe, US, UAE, africa(only Morocco) most parts of asia, working or leisure). I really don't want to lead the same life i had in Spore (movies, shopping after shopping, eating) else it defeats the purpose of living abroad.

Refering to the inflood of middle-eastern people, it doesn't really bother most of us, as long we don't live in those destrict dominate by them we don't need to be worry. Australia is a big country so you have plenty of suburbs to choose where you want to live. There's certain suburbs dominate by different enthic group .eg, the chinese, HKonger, Greek, Italian, Korean, Irish etc. Sporeans are spread everywhere and their numbers are relatively small compare to other ethics, they are not exactly united.

At the end of the day, there's no perfect place, you will begin to like the adopted country as time goes by, u accept the flaws and appreciate the better things. Some people do not mind and stay contended staying in prison-cell HDB and chasing low quality channel 8 programmes their whole life, some people can't. I guess I belong to the latter, prefer more outdoor, nature,bigger space, sandy beaches, parks and good weather. going back Spore for good break once in a while for the yummy hawker food and visiting friends and family is more then enough, anything more then 2 weeks in Spore will be dreadful.....

 

[NissanViP]

As far as my reading goes in this thread, I thank to everyone who took pains, time and effort to contribute valuable information living abroad.

Thank you again.

Cheers!