Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

[eatshitndie]

Another question...do we really need NS still ? Going back to 1967 as to why we needed NS is justifiable.

But now do we still really need a conscript army?

Let's take Australia for example. The Australian Defence Force only has 58,000 full time active professional soldiers and some 30,000 active reservists whereas Singapore has 72,000 Regulars (including full-time NSmen).

If Singapore is so afraid that Indonesia may invade Singapore....what can the paper generals & conscripts do ?

It is also ridiculous when we have to train our NSmen in countries like Taiwan, Brunei, Australia & New Zealand when the priority of the SAF is to defend. What use is there to train the soldiers in a completely alien topography ?

it’s very much akin to “atas” sinkies donning $6.9k lycra and showing off their $16.9k bikes on their tdf wannabe tours on busy sg roadways, or sinkie drivers creeping slowly behind each other on nickel (and dime) highway in their ferraris, lambos, and maseratis. it’s the same wannabe like the best in the west kind of cumuppance mentality that ends up with a bunch of the most sexpensive toys but nary a world crass champion who can wield them to top all others. these scholars who make these decisions still need toy soldiers to masak here tikkum there.

 

[Papsmearer]

it’s very much akin to “atas” sinkies donning $6.9k lycra and showing off their $16.9k bikes on their tdf wannabe tours on busy sg roadways, or sinkie drivers creeping slowly behind each other on nickel (and dime) highway in their ferraris, lambos, and maseratis. it’s the same wannabe like the best in the west kind of cumuppance mentality that ends up with a bunch of the most sexpensive toys but nary a world crass champion who can wield them to top all others. these scholars who make these decisions still need toy soldiers to masak here tikkum there.

This kind of stupid nincompoop answer only contributes to your stupidity. By the way, u have double the number of posts as me, why are u still an "asset"?

 

[eatshitndie]

This kind of stupid nincompoop answer only contributes to your stupidity. By the way, u have double the number of posts as me, why are u still an "asset"?

sumtimes must act stupid mah to confuse readers. because my ass is more sexy than yours?

 

[Papsmearer]

Another question...do we really need NS still ? Going back to 1967 as to why we needed NS is justifiable.

But now do we still really need a conscript army?

Let's take Australia for example. The Australian Defence Force only has 58,000 full time active professional soldiers and some 30,000 active reservists whereas Singapore has 72,000 Regulars (including full-time NSmen).

If Singapore is so afraid that Indonesia may invade Singapore....what can the paper generals & conscripts do ?

It is also ridiculous when we have to train our NSmen in countries like Taiwan, Brunei, Australia & New Zealand when the priority of the SAF is to defend. What use is there to train the soldiers in a completely alien topography ?

Don't get me started on this. Since the end of the Cold War, we really don't have any military enemies. And even if we did, and our SAF was frozen at the 1990 equipment and manpower levels, we can still defeat the 5 closest neighbours to us. Sinkieland is currently something like 120,000 regulars and around 400,000 reservist, plus another 100000 in SPF and not counting other armed quasi units like AETOS, CISCO, Gurkha, etc.

The reason why u have NS and have a $15 billion annual military budget is 1) so that more and more SAF scholar genitals can find a home 2) corruption as the defence business is notorious for kickbacks.

1) The more reservist units u have, it means the more SAF scholars can be posted to them. Reservist units in peacetime still have an office and a staff comprised of regular officers. Also, in terms of equipment purchases. take submarines. Why we need submarines, I still do not know. But the creation of a new submarine squadron easily can park 5 - 10 SAF scholar genitals in there to run the squadron, run the submarine base, run the support and maintenance, etc. In effect, the SAF is now a grooming ground for the PAP to identify future politicians and people they can put in to control the various govt ministries. In other countries, the civil service is suppose to be neutral and works with any new incoming govts. But in singapore, even if the PAP loses power, they have already subverted the civil service, stat boards and GLCs to such a degree that they are the hidden saboteurs for any new govt.

2) Take armour as an example. The purchase of a 70 ton Leopard 2 tank is ludicrous. In our narrow streets and terrain, how do u employ a 70 ton behemoth? Its absolutely the wrong tank to use. Then they gave a contract to ST to upgrade the tank, using only one specific uparmour kit with no bid, the kit made by IBD Deisenroth. Its because the base Leopard 2 tank is a rolling gas tank that can blow up with an RPG hit. How much kopi exchanged hands along the way? so many hands touch the pie along the way. Now multiply that by every weapon systems. The truth is that we don't have enough manpower to man all of them.

 

[Peace Maker]

I would like to enquire regarding NS obligations if a boy is born outside Singapore but became Singapore citizen due to descent from Singaporean father. He don't hold Singapore passport, never study even nursery in Singapore or make use of any educational facilities in Singapore before. He only come back to Singapore during yearly visit to his grandparents & travel with a foreign passport. In actual fact, would not mind him serving the NS if Singapore accept dual citizenship, however not the case in Singapore. As such, would like to relinquish his Singapore citizen when he reaches 21 years old. At the meantime, what are the things , actions or documentations to prepare in advance since he is still has some years to go before applying his I5 years old IC which I do not intend to. However, I believe from computer records, once he enters Singapore with even a foreign passport when he reaches 15 years old, he may be prevented leaving Singapore without an exit permit & also a bond of 100K.

 

[bobby]

I would like to enquire regarding NS obligations if a boy is born outside Singapore but became Singapore citizen due to descent from Singaporean father. He don't hold Singapore passport, never study even nursery in Singapore or make use of any educational facilities in Singapore before. He only come back to Singapore during yearly visit to his grandparents & travel with a foreign passport. In actual fact, would not mind him serving the NS if Singapore accept dual citizenship, however not the case in Singapore. As such, would like to relinquish his Singapore citizen when he reaches 21 years old. At the meantime, what are the things , actions or documentations to prepare in advance since he is still has some years to go before applying his I5 years old IC which I do not intend to. However, I believe from computer records, once he enters Singapore with even a foreign passport when he reaches 15 years old, he may be prevented leaving Singapore without an exit permit & also a bond of 100K.

Isn't this a joke that this stupid rule only applies to a Singaporean male....and same breathe AWARE talks about gender equality.

 

[Leongsam]

I would like to enquire regarding NS obligations if a boy is born outside Singapore but became Singapore citizen due to descent from Singaporean father. He don't hold Singapore passport, never study even nursery in Singapore or make use of any educational facilities in Singapore before. He only come back to Singapore during yearly visit to his grandparents & travel with a foreign passport. In actual fact, would not mind him serving the NS if Singapore accept dual citizenship, however not the case in Singapore. As such, would like to relinquish his Singapore citizen when he reaches 21 years old. At the meantime, what are the things , actions or documentations to prepare in advance since he is still has some years to go before applying his I5 years old IC which I do not intend to. However, I believe from computer records, once he enters Singapore with even a foreign passport when he reaches 15 years old, he may be prevented leaving Singapore without an exit permit & also a bond of 100K.

If he was not born in Singapore you should have a strong case against having to do NS.

However take a look at this case where a kiwi was born in Singapore but left at the age of 8.

Singapore-born New Zealand teenager has to fulfil national service obligations: MFA​

LEE MIN KOK

3-4 minutes

---

• Updated
  Mar 2, 2016, 3:09 pm

SINGAPORE - Singapore-born New Zealand teenager Brandon Smith will be required to fulfil his national service (NS) obligations, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) said on Wednesday (March 2).
"Singapore adheres to the fundamental principles of universality and equity for NS. All Singaporeans are expected to fulfil our NS obligations as citizens," MFA stated in a written reply to Jurong GRC MP David Ong's question in Parliament.
"It would not be fair to allow citizens to avoid NS just because they reside overseas."
Mr Ong had wanted to know if the ministry had entered into discussions with New Zealand on the case of Mr Smith, who holds dual citizenship and had previously stated his desire to seek exemption from NS.
The 19-year-old, whose mother is Singaporean and father a New Zealander, moved to the city of Dunedin at the age of eight. He has had multiple applications to defer his NS call-up until he turns 21 - the age when he can relinquish his Singapore citizenship - rejected.
He told New Zealand news site stuff.co.nz in an interview on Jan 24 that spending two years doing NS was "pointless" as he did not speak Mandarin and would feel like an outsider.
But MFA has clarified that Mr Smith would still be liable for any breaches of the Enlistment Act, even if he were to apply for renunciation of his Singapore citizenship after attaining the age of majority.
The ministry also advised him to return to Singapore as soon as possible to resolve the matter.
Mr Smith faces a fine of up to $10,000 and/or a maximum of three years in prison if he fails to comply.
MFA said the New Zealand Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade had made a request for Singapore to provide a contact from the Ministry of Defence, which MFA has done so.
New Zealand's Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully said in a statement on Jan 23 that he intended to take the matter up.
"While the Singapore Government is responsible for determining their own citizenship policies, I have considerable sympathy for the situation this family has found themselves in," Mr McCully said.
Last month, Singaporean Brian Joseph Chow was jailed for 1½ months after an appeal by the prosecution against his original sentence of just a $4,500 fine.
Chow, 25, had left the country at the age of 14 to study in Australia and evaded enlistment for more than six years before voluntarily returning in May 2013 to serve.

 

[Peace Maker]

Thanks for your info, most cases are born in Singapore & left at a later age. I need to start preparing early for my boy case. Since we are in this topic, how about for a girl who is also born outside Singapore but given S'pore citizenship due to descent from S'porean father. When she reaches 21, does she really need proof that she has given up her birth right in order to be a Singaporean or will ICA just close one eye since for a girl need not to serve NS. My brother in law staying in Aussie actually held both citizenship since he completed army before leaving to work in Aussie in the late 80s.

 

[Papsmearer]

I would like to enquire regarding NS obligations if a boy is born outside Singapore but became Singapore citizen due to descent from Singaporean father. He don't hold Singapore passport, never study even nursery in Singapore or make use of any educational facilities in Singapore before. He only come back to Singapore during yearly visit to his grandparents & travel with a foreign passport. In actual fact, would not mind him serving the NS if Singapore accept dual citizenship, however not the case in Singapore. As such, would like to relinquish his Singapore citizen when he reaches 21 years old. At the meantime, what are the things , actions or documentations to prepare in advance since he is still has some years to go before applying his I5 years old IC which I do not intend to. However, I believe from computer records, once he enters Singapore with even a foreign passport when he reaches 15 years old, he may be prevented leaving Singapore without an exit permit & also a bond of 100K.

Firstly, u need to stop misleading and lying to people here when u say that the boy was born outside S'pore but became a Sinkie citizen due to descent from a sinkie father. If the boy was born outside singapore, the govt don't give a shit and in 100% of the cases, they don't even know since they are not privy to birth records of other countries. The only way the govt will know is if the moron father went and informed the singapore govt. And then proceeded to register the son as a singapore citizen. Then it becomes entirely the fault of the stupid father. Once registered as singapore citizen, the boy will be called up for pre-enlistment and he will be missing. That is already a crime. Once u have committed an enlistment crime everything is downhill. As to him relinquishing his citizenship at 21, which fantasy is that? Unilateral relinquishing of citizenship is not entertained by the govt. the govt has to also approve your relinquishment. And as long as u have outstanding NS obligations, they will not allow u to relinquish.

The boy should never have been registered as a sinkie. What should have happened is that he should have been issued a passport of his birth country or issued travel documents from his birth country. Then the father can bring him back to singapore every year. The father entering the country with his sinkie passport and the boy entering with his foreign passport. As long as there are supporting documents like birth cert, and what not to proof the father and son relationship. there is no reason they cannot travel under 2 different country's passport.

 

[nayr69sg]

Firstly, u need to stop misleading and lying to people here when u say that the boy was born outside S'pore but became a Sinkie citizen due to descent from a sinkie father. If the boy was born outside singapore, the govt don't give a shit and in 100% of the cases, they don't even know since they are not privy to birth records of other countries. The only way the govt will know is if the moron father went and informed the singapore govt. And then proceeded to register the son as a singapore citizen. Then it becomes entirely the fault of the stupid father. Once registered as singapore citizen, the boy will be called up for pre-enlistment and he will be missing. That is already a crime. Once u have committed an enlistment crime everything is downhill. As to him relinquishing his citizenship at 21, which fantasy is that? Unilateral relinquishing of citizenship is not entertained by the govt. the govt has to also approve your relinquishment. And as long as u have outstanding NS obligations, they will not allow u to relinquish.

The boy should never have been registered as a sinkie. What should have happened is that he should have been issued a passport of his birth country or issued travel documents from his birth country. Then the father can bring him back to singapore every year. The father entering the country with his sinkie passport and the boy entering with his foreign passport. As long as there are supporting documents like birth cert, and what not to proof the father and son relationship. there is no reason they cannot travel under 2 different country's passport.

If register as SG citizen will get $$$ from ah gong called baby bonus. Also tax breaks from rental of HDB flat and other SG income.

Thats one of the reasons people register their babies born abroad to become SG citizen

Another reason I have heard is the couple os worried should anything happen to them say pass on in accident and there is no relatives in the new country all family and relatives in SG then how is the child going to go to SG and live with the relatives if dont have SG citizenship?

Some of the reasons why people want their child to also have SG citizenship.

 

[Charlie99]

The SG baby bonus is not a consideration, and we were unaware of it.
We did not receive any.
Two of our four children are boys, and all of them were born in Canada, have been granted deferment from NS and exit permits.
They have always resided in Canada, and do not have SG IC and SG passport.

 

[Charlie99]

I believe that the father of the children have to apply for SG citizenship of the infant before age one.
The SG government will remind the child at age 20, that he or she has to affirm the SG citizenship, and renounce the other citizenship. Our eldest received that letter two or three years ago.

 

[Charlie99]

So far, the immigration in SG have never question why the parent and children are traveling on passports from different countries.
Hopefully, my wife will be able to apply and obtain EU passports for our children, because at least one of them is considering working in Europe.

 

[Peace Maker]

Firstly, u need to stop misleading and lying to people here when u say that the boy was born outside S'pore but became a Sinkie citizen due to descent from a sinkie father. If the boy was born outside singapore, the govt don't give a shit and in 100% of the cases, they don't even know since they are not privy to birth records of other countries. The only way the govt will know is if the moron father went and informed the singapore govt. And then proceeded to register the son as a singapore citizen. Then it becomes entirely the fault of the stupid father. Once registered as singapore citizen, the boy will be called up for pre-enlistment and he will be missing. That is already a crime. Once u have committed an enlistment crime everything is downhill. As to him relinquishing his citizenship at 21, which fantasy is that? Unilateral relinquishing of citizenship is not entertained by the govt. the govt has to also approve your relinquishment. And as long as u have outstanding NS obligations, they will not allow u to relinquish.

The boy should never have been registered as a sinkie. What should have happened is that he should have been issued a passport of his birth country or issued travel documents from his birth country. Then the father can bring him back to singapore every year. The father entering the country with his sinkie passport and the boy entering with his foreign passport. As long as there are supporting documents like birth cert, and what not to proof the father and son relationship. there is no reason they cannot travel under 2 different country's passport.

There is no lying about it, I registered him as a Singaporean before his 1 year old that was why I mentioned due to descent of a Singaporean father. It was a grave mistake that I made. However, since he only come for yearly visits using foreign passport without utilizing any childcare or educational facilities, I am hoping his case is quite clear cut probably ends with a fine rather than jail sentence.

 

[eatshitndie]

never get him a sinkie passport, and never register him again for nric at 11-12. if you receive his ns registration letter by 16.9 years, get him to register and seek deferment for studies in his birth cuntry until age 21. by age 21 he can apply for renunciation of sinkie shitizenship. if ica checks out with mindeaf that he is clear, it should be approved. if ns registration cums and you ignore it or lose the letter (change of address is no sexcuse), be prepared for a face-off with mindeaf, and they can make life hell for you and son. my friend registered his son (who is born in alameda) when he was less than 1, did not obtain a sinkie passport for him, but forgot to register him for ns (and claimed he lost the letter), had to fly to sg with his son to face the music with mindeaf when he turned 21. failure to register and apply for determent caused him to part with a few hundred dollars in fines, compounded. phew! he was expecting thousands of dollars of fines plus jail time plus the honor of serving full time ns. lucky. after paying fines, he quickly helped his son to submit his renunciation papers to ica with clearance from mindeaf the next day. and it was approved. the son now can freely travel to sg for tech conferences and biz meetings, plus meeting cousins, unkers, aunties, and grannies. of course, u.s. travellers will require travel bubble now to be set up between sg and u.s. for those who are fully vaccinated. cannot suka suka visit sg if not a resident nor long term pass holder. i told him honestly that he was a moron. all those years if not decades of shit and stress for registering his son as a sinkie shitizen before he even turned 6.9 months old.

 

[Peace Maker]

never get him a sinkie passport, and never register him again for nric at 11-12. if you receive his ns registration letter by 16.9 years, get him to register and seek deferment for studies in his birth cuntry until age 21. by age 21 he can apply for renunciation of sinkie shitizenship. if ica checks out with mindeaf that he is clear, it should be approved. if ns registration cums and you ignore it or lose the letter (change of address is no sexcuse), be prepared for a face-off with mindeaf, and they can make life hell for you and son. my friend registered his son (who is born in alameda) when he was less than 1, did not obtain a sinkie passport for him, but forgot to register him for ns (and claimed he lost the letter), had to fly to sg with his son to face the music with mindeaf when he turned 21. failure to register and apply for determent caused him to part with a few hundred dollars in fines, compounded. phew! he was expecting thousands of dollars of fines plus jail time plus the honor of serving full time ns. lucky. after paying fines, he quickly helped his son to submit his renunciation papers to ica with clearance from mindeaf the next day. and it was approved. the son now can freely travel to sg for tech conferences and biz meetings, plus meeting cousins, unkers, aunties, and grannies. of course, u.s. travellers will require travel bubble now to be set up between sg and u.s. for those who are fully vaccinated. cannot suka suka visit sg if not a resident nor long term pass holder. i told him honestly that he was a moron. all those years if not decades of shit and stress for registering his son as a sinkie shitizen before he even turned 6.9 months old.

Thanks for your kind advice & duly noted. I hope to live long enough to settle it for him before I kick the bucket & pass the headache to my wife.

 

[Papsmearer]

If register as SG citizen will get $$$ from ah gong called baby bonus. Also tax breaks from rental of HDB flat and other SG income.

Thats one of the reasons people register their babies born abroad to become SG citizen

Another reason I have heard is the couple os worried should anything happen to them say pass on in accident and there is no relatives in the new country all family and relatives in SG then how is the child going to go to SG and live with the relatives if dont have SG citizenship?

Some of the reasons why people want their child to also have SG citizenship.

The reason u give as to why some one might want to register their kid in s'pore is sooooooooooooo retarded. If the child's sinkie parents die in an accident and the child is left alone in the new country, the social welfare services will take over the custody of the child. U think they just let any relative come in from singapore and suka suka take the child back? Its called kidnapping. There has to be a court process where the sinkie relative is awarded custody of the child. Then the child can be brought back to singapore. One of the relatives have to formally adopt the child and that is when the child can have their citizenship changed to sinkie. U don't make the child become a sinkie citizen just in case of something remote like what u project, happening. The parents can put in their will that they wish so and so relative in singapore to have custody of the child and the foreign court will honour the will, I would think. But in the meantime, the child will be a ward of the state.

 

[Papsmearer]

So far, the immigration in SG have never question why the parent and children are traveling on passports from different countries.
Hopefully, my wife will be able to apply and obtain EU passports for our children, because at least one of them is considering working in Europe.

Since you have already registered the boys, once they reach call up age, and they don't show up for enlistment, they will end up as fugitives. Better not let them go back to sinkieland anymore.

 

[Papsmearer]

There is no lying about it, I registered him as a Singaporean before his 1 year old that was why I mentioned due to descent of a Singaporean father. It was a grave mistake that I made. However, since he only come for yearly visits using foreign passport without utilizing any childcare or educational facilities, I am hoping his case is quite clear cut probably ends with a fine rather than jail sentence.

That would be called wishful thinking. After the Melvyn Tan case, MINDEATH has been very sensitive to giving out just fines. All NS defualters after him should be getting jail term.

 

[rushifa666]

Can they just kill him during reservist? These people are dumb. There is no advantage at all to ns. Enjoy db first lah. And you are right. So far only the kelong pianist dodged with a fine but that was many moons ago