Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

[nayr69sg]

70 pct of sinkees are clueless on the major issues. Opposition needs to educate them year round, not only for 8 days during the election period.

Has it ever crossed your mind that the 70% of Sinkies DON'T want to be "educated" on these things?

I'll give you a simple observation that I have made to illustrate this. Ask Singaporeans who have high blood pressure diabetes and other chronic illnesses who are on regular medications what the name of the medications they are taking. More often than not you will hear "The white big round pill, the white small longish pill, the yellow pill ...."

This is a Sinkie thing. Even young educated Sinkies will reply like that.

Whereas with PRC chinese they know the names. The chinese name of the drug.

Now we can put some blame on the Singapore system of having primary school leavers or secondary school dropouts working as dispensing assistants who probably tell patients "take the white round big pill 2 tablets twice a day" rather than the actual name of the drug. But still it is something that indicates a lack of interest, lack of sense of responsibility to take care of themselves. Be responsible for their own outcomes. Everything just leave to the doctor lah. Why should I know the names of my medications? You are the doctor mah! Yeah and then when dispensing errors or drug errors occur they will blame....you got it....everyone else but themselves.

So this is the Sinkie mentality. Kpkb. But always expecting someone else to solve the problem for them.

They have no desire to be "educated".

 

[winnipegjets]

Has it ever crossed your mind that the 70% of Sinkies DON'T want to be "educated" on these things?

I'll give you a simple observation that I have made to illustrate this. Ask Singaporeans who have high blood pressure diabetes and other chronic illnesses who are on regular medications what the name of the medications they are taking. More often than not you will hear "The white big round pill, the white small longish pill, the yellow pill ...."

This is a Sinkie thing. Even young educated Sinkies will reply like that.

Whereas with PRC chinese they know the names. The chinese name of the drug.

Now we can put some blame on the Singapore system of having primary school leavers or secondary school dropouts working as dispensing assistants who probably tell patients "take the white round big pill 2 tablets twice a day" rather than the actual name of the drug. But still it is something that indicates a lack of interest, lack of sense of responsibility to take care of themselves. Be responsible for their own outcomes. Everything just leave to the doctor lah. Why should I know the names of my medications? You are the doctor mah! Yeah and then when dispensing errors or drug errors occur they will blame....you got it....everyone else but themselves.

So this is the Sinkie mentality. Kpkb. But always expecting someone else to solve the problem for them.

They have no desire to be "educated".

It is in the messaging ...this is something that our opposition politicians can learn from the Americans. Package the message right and repeat it incessantly, eventually the message sinks in.
Since bread and butter issues are the primarily focus of sinkees, the opposition needs to tie every PAP screw up to that theme. Set the narrative daily and when election comes, the final assault on fortress PAP.
But all this will come to nothing if election continues to be run by the PMO.

 

[winnipegjets]

It is in the messaging ...this is something that our opposition politicians can learn from the Americans. Package the message right and repeat it incessantly, eventually the message sinks in.
Since bread and butter issues are the primarily focus of sinkees, the opposition needs to tie every PAP screw up to that theme. Set the narrative daily and when election comes, the final assault on fortress PAP.
But all this will come to nothing if election continues to be run by the PMO.

Sinkees kpkb only because they are gutless after decades of intimidation by the PAP. Look at how the SPF and ISD are being used to restrict and silence the critics. It is up to the opposition again to break this kiasi mindset of sinkee.

Link every issue back to bread and butter and continuously run down the PAP. There are brave souls out there willing to challenge the system ...they just need someone to lead the way.

 

[nayr69sg]

Singaporeans are more concerned about making money, becoming financially successful and helping their children achieve the same. They cannot be bothered about much else.

Very pragmatic you see. Canadians are not quite the same. You should know what I mean.

It takes two hands to clap. Those who constantly put all the blame on the PAP have missed the point.

 

[winnipegjets]

Singaporeans are more concerned about making money, becoming financially successful and helping their children achieve the same. They cannot be bothered about much else.

Very pragmatic you see. Canadians are not quite the same. You should know what I mean.

It takes two hands to clap. Those who constantly put all the blame on the PAP have missed the point.

LKY created a high pressure society so that sinkees would have no time for anything except work their butts out to pay for essentials in life.
If sinkees have the kind of lifestyle enjoyed by Scandinavians - no financial worries since taxes cover most of the major expenses in life - they would be more politically conscious and then demand accountability from their government.

Sinkees are a product of the environment created by the PAP. Who can we blame if not the PAP? Definitely not ourselves.

 

[nayr69sg]

LKY created a high pressure society so that sinkees would have no time for anything except work their butts out to pay for essentials in life.
If sinkees have the kind of lifestyle enjoyed by Scandinavians - no financial worries since taxes cover most of the major expenses in life - they would be more politically conscious and then demand accountability from their government.

Sinkees are a product of the environment created by the PAP. Who can we blame if not the PAP? Definitely not ourselves.

Yes LKY did that. But remember the challenges that faced Singapore when it started out. Without money Singapore is nothing.

Yes LKY made mistakes but he also did a lot of good. Yes the PAP is making mistake after mistake. Blame them? Sure. But at the end of the day we're talking about our own lives here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcvdZ5h0MuI For things to change I have to change

Anyway all this .....IT IS THE PAP's FAULT! BLOODY PAP! IF NOT FOR PAP I WOULD BE BETTER OFF!!

Sounds very familiar. It is the white man's fault. He enslaved us? We were slaves. Sounds familiar? The problems that Black people are facing is the product of slavery?

If the Jews had continued on the same lines and did nothing but complained .....HITLER! IT IS HITLER'S FAULT. THE HOLOCAUST! HE MASSACRED JEWS! IT IS ALL HIS FAULT!......then who knows where would Israel be today. Jews are the product of Hitler?

My point is, sure you know what has happened in the past and you know what has happened in the present and you know what looks to be the future. If you do not like it, then take control of your own lives. Do something about it rather than complain.

I used to be there back in 2004. I did it for about 2 years then I realized geez these Singaporeans cannot be changed. This is what they are so used to and cannot see beyond it. And they do not want to see beyond it. Actually people are rather quite the same everywhere. Just that in a richer country blessed with natural resources and open space there is way more security for the necessities of life.

I sit here typing from the comforts of Canada not because I continued to bitch and complain about the PAP but because I accepted what was the reality and chose to help my family get out of Singapore and seek a better life.

Scroobal is correct. Migration is the answer.

 

[scroobal]

Yes, it is free vote - but as I said in the past, its hobson's choice. As I said before, there is no such thing as the main body of society that is dumb. It holds no water in the scientific sense.

Unlike the obvious despots, this regime throws sizeable crumbs to keep some level of order.

It is a free vote. The people can choose at the ballot booths. The majority continue to choose PAP.

Say what you want nobody is forcing people to vote PAP at the polling stations. Nobody is threatening to kill those who vote the opposition.

I strongly recommend those who think the PAP is controlling everybody to first do some volunteer work and get to know the man on the street. They are strong PAP supporters. They are simple folk with simple ideas and very very short term goals in life. Eg can smoke now smoke lah. Can drink beer now drink lah. Later who cares? Tomorrow who cares?

If you have served NS with hokkien peng you will understand what I mean.

 

[nayr69sg]

Yes, it is free vote - but as I said in the past, its hobson's choice. As I said before, there is no such thing as the main body of society that is dumb. It holds no water in the scientific sense.

Unlike the obvious despots, this regime throws sizeable crumbs to keep some level of order.

I think when it comes to politics the guy who doesn't support the party you support is "dumb".

I am sure Trump's supporters would think those who don't support Trump are dumb. And vice versa for Hilary Clinton's supporters.

Ask winnipegjets and frenchbriefs. I am sure they will say I am dumb for supporting conservatives.

I think that's why we are implying with the word "dumb" and "daft". It is not literal.

 

[dr.wailing]

As I said before, there is no such thing as the main body of society that is dumb. It holds no water in the scientific sense.

@ scroobal

Before any meaningful discussion can take place, we'll need to define exactly what we mean by "daft" and "dumb".

Almost the entire German population believed in Hitler and his plans for Europe. Were the Germans dumb or daft?

Almost the entire Japanese population believed in the Japanese emperor and went on to invade the rest of East Asia, including Southeast East. Were the Japanese dumb or daft?

In recent history, the USA convinced all of Western Europe, Japan and your country (Sinkieland) that Iraq must be invaded at all costs because Saddam Hussein had a massive cache of weapons of mass destruction. Were Western Europe, Japan and Sinkieland dumb and daft to believe in President Bush's claims?

 

[winnipegjets]

Yes LKY did that. But remember the challenges that faced Singapore when it started out. Without money Singapore is nothing.

LKY got us into that shit in the first place ...just because he could not be the PM of Malaya.
You are simply aping the PAP line on this. There are many approaches to economic development. While the LKY way worked then, the consequences of that approach is now clear - sinkees have become morons. After 50 years, we don't have a world-class corporation. We don't have a nobel prize winner. What do we have? People who don't think, who needs to be told what to do. They are products of the PAP system.

Yes LKY made mistakes but he also did a lot of good. Yes the PAP is making mistake after mistake. Blame them? Sure. But at the end of the day we're talking about our own lives here.

He took a gamble using our lives ...just because of big ego.
Sinkees should hold the PAP accountable for that.
Who knows how sinkapore would be if it had remained in Malaya? Sinkees would have a choice of lifestyle - those who want laid back life remain in the rural areas or smaller cities. Chinese in Malaya would been a formidable group to forge a truly multiracial country.
LKY screwed up our future because of his big ego. TAR was a progressive Malay and would have been a partner to make the country progressive and modern but for LKY stirring up shit.

Anyway all this .....IT IS THE PAP's FAULT! BLOODY PAP! IF NOT FOR PAP I WOULD BE BETTER OFF!!

That's holding the government accountable. Till this day, they have not been punished.

Sounds very familiar. It is the white man's fault. He enslaved us? We were slaves. Sounds familiar? The problems that Black people are facing is the product of slavery?

If the Jews had continued on the same lines and did nothing but complained .....HITLER! IT IS HITLER'S FAULT. THE HOLOCAUST! HE MASSACRED JEWS! IT IS ALL HIS FAULT!......then who knows where would Israel be today. Jews are the product of Hitler?

My point is, sure you know what has happened in the past and you know what has happened in the present and you know what looks to be the future. If you do not like it, then take control of your own lives. Do something about it rather than complain.

On a personal level you can take charge but it does not mean you should not demand accountability. Capable sinkees like you run away, then who is going to challenge the establishment and bring about change. Thankfully, there are a few willing to stake their lives doing so. We just need to increase this pool so that they can rally sinkees in masses to topple the PAP.

I used to be there back in 2004. I did it for about 2 years then I realized geez these Singaporeans cannot be changed. This is what they are so used to and cannot see beyond it. And they do not want to see beyond it. Actually people are rather quite the same everywhere. Just that in a richer country blessed with natural resources and open space there is way more security for the necessities of life.

Most people need to be led and it is up to those that care for the country to step up to lead the people against the PAP.

I sit here typing from the comforts of Canada not because I continued to bitch and complain about the PAP but because I accepted what was the reality and chose to help my family get out of Singapore and seek a better life.

Good for you for being able to do that. Not many can afford to do so.

Scroobal is correct. Migration is the answer.[/QUOTE]

 

[nayr69sg]

On a personal level you can take charge but it does not mean you should not demand accountability. Capable sinkees like you run away, then who is going to challenge the establishment and bring about change. Thankfully, there are a few willing to stake their lives doing so. We just need to increase this pool so that they can rally sinkees in masses to topple the PAP.



Most people need to be led and it is up to those that care for the country to step up to lead the people against the PAP.

Good for you for being able to do that. Not many can afford to do so.

I did think of staying to fight. But at what cost? And for what? For the people of Singapore? The man on the street that I realized was a staunch PAP supporter and voluntarily chooses to continue to be ignorant to issues? Refuses to acknowledge the truth? Only wants to complain but does nothing when it comes to the crunch? Men of no initiative and determination? No. In a war you have to assess the troops you have and the adversary. My assessment is that the people of Singapore still have it good. Singapore is a still a functioning country with good infrastructure. There is relatively low unemployment. There is peace and stability in the country.

Who is going to risk their futures and lives to go against a PAP government over things like expensive cars, (but a good public transport system), high housing prices (but a CPF HDB system that still makes owning a home possible), ERP? I dunno what lah.

Is it really worth destroying your entire future for Singpapore? A tiny city state smaller than Calgary? As scroobal says, Hobson's choice. No no no. Look at Chee Soon Juan.

It is only when things get much much worse that the PAP will be defeated. But that future is not what I want for my children either.

As it is, my assessment of the long term future of the tiny city state known as Singapore is that it is very limited in terms of advancement and growth.

Think about it. A booming economy and successful Singapore with more births would result in a more CROWDED Singapore. Is that good? Nope. But the opposite is probably worse for Singapore. No win situation. So in summary, you guys will be fighting for a small tiny island which I do not feel worth fighting for, with troops that have no belief and are self serving and relatively full in their bellies with little desire to fight. How to win? For what?

All of us in this forum only know how to talk talk talk. Any of us ever put our neck out, go stand for elections? Why not? Ask yourselves that question. It is one thing to write here and talk talk talk. Bravado essays and all. It is another to roll up the sleeves and really take action. Where do you find leaders? Forged in the fires of adversity and failures? (Not the scholar smooth sailing Generals the system creates. And also not in the high achieving academics who excel in school). "Capable people" so to speak. But true leaders who will stand to fight?

You also have to understand the Asian culture. Historically, the Chinese are used to Emperors. Confucius. Let the Emperor take care of the people. That is why anything goes wrong, blame someone. Things go right, thank someone. Never about doing it yourself. Till today for all the bravado the Chinese people speak, China is a communist country. Other parts of Asia? Philipines. Indonesia. The only place in Japan.

Migration is not a matter of whether you can afford to do so. It is whether you are determined enough to do so.

How many doctors do you know who have migrated? They all can afford it if you are talking about money. But they will tell you they CANNOT AFFORD to given that they have put so much effort in earning their degrees and post grad training to give it all up to start all over again in another country. I repeat they will say they CANNOT AFFORD to migrate!

Migration is about sacrifice and going into the unknown and not knowing what will happen. This is not something that is a piece of cake.

For those who desire to migrate, the only thing holding you back is your mind. Stop giving yourself excuses and do it. Of course if you have a family and wife, then your spouse is also very important. Without the spousal support, either you divorce or you stay in Singapore.

 

[nayr69sg]

For Singaporeans I can sum up you future as - FIGHT, FLIGHT or PLIGHT.

Think about it.

 

[winnipegjets]

I did think of staying to fight. But at what cost? And for what? For the people of Singapore? The man on the street that I realized was a staunch PAP supporter and voluntarily chooses to continue to be ignorant to issues? Refuses to acknowledge the truth? Only wants to complain but does nothing when it comes to the crunch? Men of no initiative and determination? No. In a war you have to assess the troops you have and the adversary. My assessment is that the people of Singapore still have it good. Singapore is a still a functioning country with good infrastructure. There is relatively low unemployment. There is peace and stability in the country.

Who is going to risk their futures and lives to go against a PAP government over things like expensive cars, (but a good public transport system), high housing prices (but a CPF HDB system that still makes owning a home possible), ERP? I dunno what lah.

Is it really worth destroying your entire future for Singpapore? A tiny city state smaller than Calgary? As scroobal says, Hobson's choice. No no no. Look at Chee Soon Juan.

For a pragmatic person - sinkees are conditioned to be pragmatic of the worst sort - it doesn't make sense to risk it all to fight for a democratic sinkapore.
To an idealist who believes that there is more to life than just the pursuit of wealth, fighting for a greater cause is worthwhile.
The challenge is to inspire sinkees to see beyond the PAP BS. With other avenues of distributing info, the challenge is less formidable. The opposition politicians need to smarten up and educate the people regularly ...teach them to see the BS and show them how the PAP is screwing up their lives.
Sinkapore is screwed up because the PAP has no clue on where to bring it. It knows only one development model - cheap - and don't know how to change direction. Thus, the mass import of foreigners to lower cost and displace sinkees. What to do about the sinkees. They don't know. Lots of band aid solutions. The only thing going for the PAP is that most of the opposition parties are dumb.

It is only when things get much much worse that the PAP will be defeated. But that future is not what I want for my children either.

It was already bad but the opposition didn't know how to cash in or the election was rigged. I tend to think it was the latter. The ground was ripe for the picking as heaps of PAP boondoggles were exposed.

As it is, my assessment of the long term future of the tiny city state known as Singapore is that it is very limited in terms of advancement and growth.

A tiny nation that has good ties with neighbouring countries has lots of opportunities.

Think about it. A booming economy and successful Singapore with more births would result in a more CROWDED Singapore. Is that good? Nope. But the opposite is probably worse for Singapore. No win situation. So in summary, you guys will be fighting for a small tiny island which I do not feel worth fighting for, with troops that have no belief and are self serving and relatively full in their bellies with little desire to fight. How to win? For what?

We don't have a choice ...no money, where to go. We have to make sinkapore work for us.
We don't need a population of 5 million ...3 million will be just fine. There are many small population countries that are doing just fine, eg. Finland.

All of us in this forum only know how to talk talk talk. Any of us ever put our neck out, go stand for elections? Why not? Ask yourselves that question. It is one thing to write here and talk talk talk. Bravado essays and all. It is another to roll up the sleeves and really take action. Where do you find leaders? Forged in the fires of adversity and failures? (Not the scholar smooth sailing Generals the system creates. And also not in the high achieving academics who excel in school). "Capable people" so to speak. But true leaders who will stand to fight?

At least we talk and humtum the PAP. Every little bit counts. There are people here who do more.
The PAP cannot stay in power forever.

You also have to understand the Asian culture. Historically, the Chinese are used to Emperors. Confucius. Let the Emperor take care of the people. That is why anything goes wrong, blame someone. Things go right, thank someone. Never about doing it yourself. Till today for all the bravado the Chinese people speak, China is a communist country. Other parts of Asia? Philipines. Indonesia. The only place in Japan.

It is a defeatist attitude to think that Asian culture cannot accept Western democracy. Look at South Korea and Taiwan. They are doing well ...democracy has served them well.

Migration is not a matter of whether you can afford to do so. It is whether you are determined enough to do so.

No money, no talk. To survive in a new country, you need some hard cash to tide through the first six months.

How many doctors do you know who have migrated? They all can afford it if you are talking about money. But they will tell you they CANNOT AFFORD to given that they have put so much effort in earning their degrees and post grad training to give it all up to start all over again in another country. I repeat they will say they CANNOT AFFORD to migrate!

Doctors can afford to migrate. How many middle income sinkees can afford to migrate?

Migration is about sacrifice and going into the unknown and not knowing what will happen. This is not something that is a piece of cake.

For those who desire to migrate, the only thing holding you back is your mind. Stop giving yourself excuses and do it. Of course if you have a family and wife, then your spouse is also very important. Without the spousal support, either you divorce or you stay in Singapore.

If every sinkee has $100k and given the option to migrate to the West, I am sure many will jump at it.

 

[nayr69sg]

If every sinkee has $100k and given the option to migrate to the West, I am sure many will jump at it.

You are out of touch with the ground. Don't you have any friends who are sinkies who have $100k? Are they jumping to migrate?

My own relatives have no such thoughts or desires. All my former colleagues and classmates (all doctors, GPs, specialists etc) not a single one has migrated or is planning to migrate. What are you talking about give a sinkie $100k and they will jump to migrate to the West?

I see other migrants who come with nothing. No PR even. Mexicans I worked with who came illegally. Finally got their PRs. If there is a will there is a way. Of course there are risks.

If you use $$$ as an excuse why people will not migrate, what more FIGHTING for a democratic Singapore?

Be realistic. FIGHT FLIGHT OR PLIGHT.

A man convinced against his will is of his opinion still. I will never be able to change you opinion. Similarly no one can change Singaporean's opinions unless they themselves want to.

If Singapore was big country with natural resources like Canada or even Australia or Malaysia....yes perhaps it is worthwhile fighting for. But Singapore, regardless of the government has reached its peak simply because of the lack of space alone. While we hear lots of criticism about the PAP and all.......we never ever hear these critics give real constructive alternatives which will work.

It is easy to criticize difficult to actually do and produce results. Take migration as a very simple example. Everyone talks as thought migration just need money can already. Really? So simple? And then there are those who say no money that is why cannot migrate. Aiyah, all excuses lah. If you want something go get it. No one is going to do it for you.

 

[winnipegjets]

You are out of touch with the ground. Don't you have any friends who are sinkies who have $100k? Are they jumping to migrate?

Most of my friends - middle class - don't have more than $20k in the bank. And many are living from pay cheques to pay cheques.

My own relatives have no such thoughts or desires. All my former colleagues and classmates (all doctors, GPs, specialists etc) not a single one has migrated or is planning to migrate. What are you talking about give a sinkie $100k and they will jump to migrate to the West?

When you are in the top 20 percent, immigration is furthest from your mind until unemployment hits you.

I see other migrants who come with nothing. No PR even. Mexicans I worked with who came illegally. Finally got their PRs. If there is a will there is a way. Of course there are risks.

We are not talking about desparados. Moreover, sinkees are generally law abiding. Sinkees can't operate in grey ...only black and white. That's why sinkees suck in business.

If you use $$$ as an excuse why people will not migrate, what more FIGHTING for a democratic Singapore?

The reality is that without buffer funds, settling in a new country is going to be difficult.

Be realistic. FIGHT FLIGHT OR PLIGHT.

80 percent of sinkees have no choice but to fight.

A man convinced against his will is of his opinion still. I will never be able to change you opinion. Similarly no one can change Singaporean's opinions unless they themselves want to.

Most sinkees are incapable of independent thinking. Those who can should provide the leadership. It is necessary to educate the 80 percent that PAP government hurts their financial well-being.

If Singapore was big country with natural resources like Canada or even Australia or Malaysia....yes perhaps it is worthwhile fighting for. But Singapore, regardless of the government has reached its peak simply because of the lack of space alone. While we hear lots of criticism about the PAP and all.......we never ever hear these critics give real constructive alternatives which will work.

It is not the role of sinkees to offer solutions to our overpaid ministers ...our role is to criticise and demand solution. If no solution is forthcoming, then demand that the government resign.
We vote in people to provide the vision and leadership. Don't put the onus on the people to do the job of the elected.

It is easy to criticize difficult to actually do and produce results. Take migration as a very simple example. Everyone talks as thought migration just need money can already. Really? So simple? And then there are those who say no money that is why cannot migrate. Aiyah, all excuses lah. If you want something go get it. No one is going to do it for you.

If you seek political office, then you accept that criticism is part of the package. Voters have every right to criticise. Criticism is feedback to the elected. Voters don't make policy, so why put the onus on them?

Conservatives speak like everyone has the same endowments and thus is capable. Just because they can do it, they expect others to do it and heap contempt at those who can't do it. Face reality ...if everyone is as capable, then everyone will be rich. Is that even possible?

 

[nayr69sg]

I'm sorry winnipegjets. This discussion is going nowhere. You're saying the same things you said back in 2004. The things that helped convince me to leave Singapore. I thank you for that.

But really it is going nowhere. One moment sinkies are incapable of independent thinking. Then there are those who can provide leadership. Sinkies? I thought they were incapable? Not the role of sinkies to provide solutions. Role of sinkies is to kpkb. Then the incapable of independent thinking sinkies are supposed to magically vote in people who can provide the vision and leadership. Presumably from the pool of incapable of independent thinkers as well. It's the same old line I keep hearing from Singaporeans. "I am not paid millions so why ask me? Ask the ministers!" "PAP control all the media and the elections what to do?" "The opposition is of poor quality so I have no choice but to vote PAP" "Government is bad" "Government is better than Malaysia one lah. Look at Indonesia good god" Same old.

You're a socialist. Communism would be more acceptable to you than Conservatism. It has nothing to do with elections. The leaders that emerge should just take power forcibly because the people are incapable of voting them in.

I wish you all the best and hope that your vision for Singapore whatever it is, and whatever we think the somehow leaders who are out there or not have for Singapore is a bright and successful one.

My future is in Canada. Where the country is bigger than any political party. Cons come and go. Liberals come and go. It matters but it doesn't destroy the country. Cheers!

 

[winnipegjets]

I'm sorry winnipegjets. This discussion is going nowhere. You're saying the same things you said back in 2004. The things that helped convince me to leave Singapore. I thank you for that.

I encourage those who can leave to do so. But I can't leave, so I have to stay and fight. Even when I leave, I will still fight from offshore.

But really it is going nowhere. One moment sinkies are incapable of independent thinking. Then there are those who can provide leadership. Sinkies? I thought they were incapable? Not the role of sinkies to provide solutions. Role of sinkies is to kpkb. Then the incapable of independent thinking sinkies are supposed to magically vote in people who can provide the vision and leadership. Presumably from the pool of incapable of independent thinkers as well. It's the same old line I keep hearing from Singaporeans. "I am not paid millions so why ask me? Ask the ministers!" "PAP control all the media and the elections what to do?" "The opposition is of poor quality so I have no choice but to vote PAP" "Government is bad" "Government is better than Malaysia one lah. Look at Indonesia good god" Same old.

Most sinkees can't think, they just follow. There are some who can think and thus can provide leadership. These two observations are not contradictory.
It for the thinkers to step up to work the ground to enlighten the masses (aka non-thinkers). If they can get their message across, the masses will vote for them. That is called leading them. Why so hard to comprehend?
Those statements you cited are true ...yes, it can be dull since they are so often repeated. Voters choose, not to provide solutions. It is more so in sinkapore context because we pay our ministers and the senior public servants millions in compensation. The higher you earn, the greater responsibility and accountability is expected.

You're a socialist. Communism would be more acceptable to you than Conservatism. It has nothing to do with elections. The leaders that emerge should just take power forcibly because the people are incapable of voting them in.

Socialist is not a dirty world. Communism is different from socialism. Heard of social democracy? Look at the Scandinavian countries. Albertans have no bloody clue on socialism, equating with communism.
I believe in elections ...but when the government controls all the levers and prevent others from winning, then other means to restore democracy is necessary. Even Albertans believe that.

I wish you all the best and hope that your vision for Singapore whatever it is, and whatever we think the somehow leaders who are out there or not have for Singapore is a bright and successful one.

Thank you. I hope to welcome you back to a sinkapore that is the Switzerland of Asia.

My future is in Canada. Where the country is bigger than any political party. Cons come and go. Liberals come and go. It matters but it doesn't destroy the country. Cheers!

And that is required in sinkapore. The PAP doesn't want to give up power. It controls the media. It controls the judiciary. It controls the very agency - elections department - that allow a peaceful change of powers. The public service is loyal to the PAP, not the country. The PAP equates itself as sinkapore ...without PAP, sinkapore is gone.
That we must change. The public service should be apolitical and should call out the government when it tries to politicize it. Look at how the public service is used to harass the opposition. There should be outcry. But there isn't because sinkees have been conditioned to accept that the PAP can do as it pleases.

If sinkapore is going to move forward, the PAP has to go. Any party but the PAP. The rebuild is necessary even though it would be hard.

 

[nayr69sg]

I encourage those who can leave to do so. But I can't leave, so I have to stay and fight. Even when I leave, I will still fight from offshore.

Right. It's the $100k that is missing. Any sinkie who has got $100k will jump at migration to the west. But in the meantime since they don't have the $100k they have to stay and "fight".

What is "fight" to you? And how do you "fight from offshore"?

It will be interesting to see all these "fighters" "fighting from offshore" for the future of Singapore. Strange isn't it?

 

[scroobal]

Excellent point.

For Singaporeans I can sum up you future as - FIGHT, FLIGHT or PLIGHT.

Think about it.

 

[scroobal]

Actually not sure where the $100k to migrate came in. During the early years of this forum folks who were keen to migrate did not give in to these sort of excuses. Money does help but I have seen people like cooks, secretaries, welders, electricians making the journey across. They sold their HDB flat to finance their future. In fact as Doc will testify, Doctors had the biggest challenge as the entry system previously carried barriers.

I think one must be delusional to think that those who migrated did not take risk. My understanding is that criteria for entry is much easier now. If you going to take no risk, want to save up $100k I suggest it's not going to happen.