[COVID-19 Virus] The Sinkies are fucked Thread.

[dredd]

Not really fault of the govt.

It is the drug maker might have lied.

Even today still calling it a vaccine is a travesty in my opinion. Call it immunotherapy prophylaxis is more appropriate.

There is also other reason why I say we need to stop calling covid vaccine a vaccine. Because this can change how people view OTHER vaccines like MMR, polio, Varicella, HPV and very significantly Hep B vaccine.

If people continue to associate vaccines and what vaccine does with covid vaccine they might start to question also those other vaccines.

When someone has Hep B vaccine and is immune to hep B because of the vaccine, do they still carry Hep B and can infect others with Hep B?

No. Same with all the other vaccines.

The exception is covid vaccine.

Stop calling it a vaccine! We will give the anti vaxxers more cannon fodder to attack other vaccines!

I did ask my pharma clients about this and their response is that any preparation that is administered to stimulate our body's immune response against a specific disease is by definition a vaccine. They cannot call mRNA an immunotherapy drug because it is not a curing agent for COVID, although mRNA vaccines is a platform for cancer immunotherapy... but that's a different story altogether.

 

[nayr69sg]

I did ask my pharma clients about this and their response is that any preparation that is administered to stimulate our body's immune response against a specific disease is by definition a vaccine. They cannot call mRNA an immunotherapy drug because it is not a curing agent for COVID, although mRNA vaccines is a platform for cancer immunotherapy... but that's a different story altogether.

Of course they have to say that.

You know why? Because if they admit and everyone goes down the line....hey this is not really a vaccine!

Then why was it sold as a vaccine? Or that the vaccine was a failed vaccine.....

Legal suits....

Truth is it is a failed vaccine in the traditional way we would call a vaccine a vaccine.

Seriously the HPV vaccine program would not be sold to children and all if the premise was that it made recipients have less serious a HPV infection but would still result in the vaxxed passing HPV to anyone. No way man. You cannot sell that to anyone and have them say yeah yeah yeah yes it is a vaccine because it is preparation that is administered to stimulate our body's immune response against a specific disease. And have doctors advise their patients to take it as a vaccine? HPV?

Or Hep B Energix B ?

Yeah yeah we vaccinate all our healthcare workers surgeons with this thing that is preparation that is administered to stimulate our body's immune response against a specific disease but can still have the HCW catch Hep B from a patient they operated on and then pass Hep B to another patient. Hey by definition it is a vaccine!


Sorry man my understanding when we all talked about vaccines is not the definition people so speak of alone. Vaccination carried more messaging than just it is preparation that is administered to stimulate our body's immune response against a specific disease.

 

[dredd]

Of course they have to say that.

You know why? Because if they admit and everyone goes down the line....hey this is not really a vaccine!

Then why was it sold as a vaccine? Or that the vaccine was a failed vaccine.....

Legal suits....

Truth is it is a failed vaccine in the traditional way we would call a vaccine a vaccine.

Seriously the HPV vaccine program would not be sold to children and all if the premise was that it made recipients have less serious a HPV infection but would still result in the vaxxed passing HPV to anyone. No way man. You cannot sell that to anyone and have them say yeah yeah yeah yes it is a vaccine because it is preparation that is administered to stimulate our body's immune response against a specific disease. And have doctors advise their patients to take it as a vaccine? HPV?

Or Hep B Energix B ?

Yeah yeah we vaccinate all our healthcare workers surgeons with this thing that is preparation that is administered to stimulate our body's immune response against a specific disease but can still have the HCW catch Hep B from a patient they operated on and then pass Hep B to another patient. Hey by definition it is a vaccine!


Sorry man my understanding when we all talked about vaccines is not the definition people so speak of alone. Vaccination carried more messaging than just it is preparation that is administered to stimulate our body's immune response against a specific disease.

It would be worse to call it a form of immunotherapy to suggest it is a treatment when it is not.

 

[nayr69sg]

It would be worse to call it a form of immunotherapy to suggest it is a treatment when it is not.

Immunotherapy prophylaxis.

Actually it is a form of treatment. Vaccines are a form of treatment as well. Look at the definition. Sounds like a treatment.

What is the definition of a medical treatment?

https://up.codes/s/what-is-the-definition-of-medical-treatment

"Medical treatment" means the management and care of a patient to combat disease or disorder. For the purposes of Part 1904, medical treatment does not include:

1904.7(b)(5)(i)(A)​

Visits to a physician or other licensed health care professional solely for observation or counseling;

1904.7(b)(5)(i)(B)​

The conduct of diagnostic procedures, such as x-rays and blood tests, including the administration of prescription medications used solely for diagnostic purposes (e.g., eye drops to dilate pupils); or

1904.7(b)(5)(i)(C)​

"First aid" as defined in paragraph (b)(5)(ii) of this section.

 

[nayr69sg]

It would be worse to call it a form of immunotherapy to suggest it is a treatment when it is not.

Part of my point is that, by continuing to insist we use vaccine when describing the comirnaty and other "vaccines", this is actually harmful to the bigger picture of the vaccine industry.

It is a bit like if Toyota outsourced manufacturing to Land Rover and still insists to call the not so reliable cars built by that division as Toyota Cars........

Call a spade a spade that's what I am saying. We have always associated prevention of further spread of the disease with the utility of vaccines. Until now....

 

[nayr69sg]

@dredd I thank you for being patient and civil. We can debate and discuss. There is no need to go personal and gaslight each other.

it is the same with my patients. There are those where I can have a discussion about things. We can always agree to disagree. I am not saying anyone is wrong in particular.

However once people start gas lighting and hurling personal insults, calling the other basically an idiot or foolish or incompetent or that they earn too much money, or need to go back to school or need more education other personal belittling stuff.....this is not helpful at all.

 

[nayr69sg]

I can tell you that if we do get some weird strange mutation of covid or the next viral pandemic......

When those pharmas come up with their vaccines again.....no government is gonna go the same route and recommend reopening the way we did with the covid vaccines and covid anymore

Vaccines have lost their trustworthiness. It is unfortunate.

We continue with the vaccine labeling because it is a good marketing strategy and way to get acceptance. Also with the other potential legal suit issues if we stopped doing so.

But that doesn't make it right nor make it helpful for the overall vaccine industry in the future.

Time will tell.

 

[zhihau]

another 3 added to the score...

136 now

 

[dredd]

@dredd I thank you for being patient and civil. We can debate and discuss. There is no need to go personal and gaslight each other.

it is the same with my patients. There are those where I can have a discussion about things. We can always agree to disagree. I am not saying anyone is wrong in particular.

However once people start gas lighting and hurling personal insults, calling the other basically an idiot or foolish or incompetent or that they earn too much money, or need to go back to school or need more education other personal belittling stuff.....this is not helpful at all.

We all have personal opinions on things.

 

[dredd]

I can tell you that if we do get some weird strange mutation of covid or the next viral pandemic......

When those pharmas come up with their vaccines again.....no government is gonna go the same route and recommend reopening the way we did with the covid vaccines and covid anymore

Vaccines have lost their trustworthiness. It is unfortunate.

We continue with the vaccine labeling because it is a good marketing strategy and way to get acceptance. Also with the other potential legal suit issues if we stopped doing so.

But that doesn't make it right nor make it helpful for the overall vaccine industry in the future.

Time will tell.

When pharmas do get it right on drugs to cure diseases, I assure you all will be forgiven and the moolah will start to pour in...

 

[dredd]

another 3 added to the score...

136 now

Oh... what are the numbers today?

 

[nayr69sg]

We all have personal opinions on things.

View attachment 124512

One of the things I have learned from reading a very good many years ago is to never actually get into an argument with anyone. Which is why I am non confrontational.

Defend to the death the right to disapprove of what you say. Means no point discussing with these people.

 

[zhihau]

Oh... what are the numbers today?

3483 4D only 12 permutation

 

[nayr69sg]

When pharmas do get it right on drugs to cure diseases, I assure you all will be forgiven and the moolah will start to pour in...

You work in pharma, healthcare?

Actually lately pharma has been quite pathetic in coming up with game changing treatments.

I see now studies put out about colchicine (for gout mainly) to reduce heart disease. And biphosphonates ( for osteoporosis) to lower risk of developing diabetes. Gosh. Really digging the bottom of the barrel.

 

[nayr69sg]

Hey @dredd When I was talking immunotherapy I was also thinking of the biologic class of medications like Humira, Stelara. We also call them biologics. to be honest I dont know much about them. They came out after I finished medical school.

I was checking on definitions.

https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-terms/def/biological-drug

biological drug​

Listen to pronunciation
(BY-oh-LAH-jih-kul...)
A substance that is made from a living organism or its products and is used in the prevention, diagnosis, or treatment of cancer and other diseases. Biological drugs include antibodies, interleukins, and vaccines. Also called biologic agent and biological agent.

We could still call the cominarty a biological drug. It would meet the definition but not involve the word vaccine and the disease prevention utility that is usually associated with calling something a vaccine. I think that would have been a more appropriate switch than to go and have the definition of vaccines changed instead.

But like I said for marketing and propaganda purposes calling it a vaccine is far more attractive and effective.

 

[dredd]

You work in pharma, healthcare?

Actually lately pharma has been quite pathetic in coming up with game changing treatments.

I see now studies put out about colchicine (for gout mainly) to reduce heart disease. And biphosphonates ( for osteoporosis) to lower risk of developing diabetes. Gosh. Really digging the bottom of the barrel.

My team and I take care of their PR stuff. Whenever a new drug comes up, they will pour money into its publicity, under strict guidelines of course. So doing PR work for pharmas is not easy, but it pays well because their pockets are deep.

 

[nayr69sg]

My team and I take care of their PR stuff. Whenever a new drug comes up, they will pour money into its publicity, under strict guidelines of course. So doing PR work for pharmas is not easy, but it pays well because their pockets are deep.

Ah...I understand.

Lots of regulation. Red tape. This cannot that cannot. I dont envy your position man.

Do you know when it comes to naming the drugs (tradenames) who does it? Is it local team or head office or both? I am always quite intrigued when I hear the tradename of the meds. Some are very very clever and catchy. Always wondered where it comes from.

 

[dredd]

But like I said for marketing and propaganda purposes calling it a vaccine is far more attractive and effective.

Most definitely. People react better to the word vaccine. The same as people react more positively to the word rose, rather than Rosa rubiginosa.

 

[nayr69sg]

Most definitely. People react better to the word vaccine. The same as people react more positively to the word rose, rather than Rosa rubiginosa.

Besides working in PR for pharma did you work previously with advertising firms? Like Saatchi and Saatchi or Batey?

I have friends and relatives who work in this field as well although no one in the pharma side of things.

Funny thing is they all say that all this advertising stuff and money blown on PR campaigns.....they themselves say they would tend to stay away from those products heavily marketed etc.

Like beer....interesting that lower ETOH content light beer heavily marketed is sold for more expensive than higher ETOH content beer which is actually a better product. All from advertising and marketing and PR.

So actually many things the PR people very powerful and control social thinking in many ways.

 

[dredd]

Ah...I understand.

Lots of regulation. Red tape. This cannot that cannot. I dont envy your position man.

Do you know when it comes to naming the drugs (tradenames) who does it? Is it local team or head office or both? I am always quite intrigued when I hear the tradename of the meds. Some are very very clever and catchy. Always wondered where it comes from.

All names, publicity directions, target markets... are determined by their head office and filtered down to us via its local office. Your'e right about the stringent regulations and I can tell you Sinkeepoo's HSA is one tough department to crack.