City Harvest Church under investigation

[leetahbar]

suppose the investigation against CHC prove to be unfounded, maybe because of invisible "guan xi", then CHC would be half way to cloud 9 and probably heaven. their influence would surely be elevated to skyrocketing level. they would be "one step nearer to heaven's gate".

then how? world domination??

 

[The RealTuaKee]

Almost, but not quite. The Devil was God's Archangel.

Since everything can evolve, Satan too.

Satan has been a friend, messenger, and a tool which the murdering god uses to fulfill his plans in the OT.

Dualism into good and evil crept into the Jews' mentality when that geographical area was hellenized after Alexandra's conquest ie Greek ideas influenced Jewish thoughts.

He started as a 'good' guy. He became bad in NT.

I still think Satan is more honest and sincere than God. At least we know what Satan is capable of. God's intentions are never clear. That's why xtians need faith

 

[jesus]

Come on people, let the authorities do their job. There are already two departments working on this case. Do not just spout allegations without any proof.

dont worry, this is the internet and not the real world, the discussions here will not impact real world investigations
what proof u need? cannot discuss meh?

 

[scroobal]

Good post bro. Realistic likely outcomes knowing this environment.I understand more serious than that. The Govt is really peeved as they had for the very first time seated Kong Hee in the same group as the recognised religious leaders of the various faith during the last National Day Speech. The seating as you know is based on state protocol. Obviously they they realise the extent of his following and the need for votes from his congregation.

When Jim Bakker was released from Prison, the first country he flew to was Singapore and gave a sermon how God saved him from Satan in the nick of time. God according to him intervened in the form of the State Govt who investigated and convicted him for fraud. His faith in God is now iron clad as he is living proof how god saved him in the nick of time from th clutches of satan. With logic like that and Singaporeans treated like suckers how do you win.

It also tells you how Satan is when you need to dupe the gullible.

I am SO HAPPY that COC & CAD held a press conference yesterday to announce that invetigations has begun.

You think these people just cted on a whim r crank emails or responded to forummers quips ? That may be a start, but some preliminary due dilligence must have been done & implications weighed & high authority consulted before the green light is given.

Proverbial 'no smoke without fire'. So spare us all the 'don't comment until investigations completed' crap.

How else can you explain dramatic 6.30am swops on homes & offices to collect probable evidence ? Sure, ' don't be alarmed, services as usual, this is only to investigation old old transactions' ha ha.

I see the following likely outcomes:-

(1) Nobody charged - just some advice on being more careful in future regarding governance in areas of forming companies with peopple & funds related or originating from the church. High profile PR to show Govt firm & fair, no fear or favour .... Kong Hee thank Govt for wisdom - said he 'too busy & have overlooked' all these past transgressions. (sounds familiar?)

(2) at end of investigation, Kong Hee shaken but not broken. All the fall guys like that Chew guy & other trustees or ex-Board Members fae the music for CBT & for conflict of interest in related parties transactions which proved siphoning of funds from the church

(2) Kong Hee implicated as the can of worms is slowly being prised open.
Past practices. Church planting funds outflow then back to individual's pockets as speaker payments investigated. Buuilding Fund & Suntec Venture closely dissected & scrutinised. In a fit, Kong Hee - uproot & settle in LA where his wife & son are already based. CHC to be headquartered elsewhere & CHC members to attend online services on now on....

P.S. anyone knows if Kong Hee had served NS ? All I know is his father is rich Indonesian Chinese & that Kong Hee is an RI boy who graduated from NUS School of Computing.

Churchgoers surprised

<!-- by line --> By Liew Hanqing & Carolyn Quek
<!-- end by line --> <!-- end left side bar --> <!-- story content : start -->
CITY Harvest members were taken by surprise when news that the police were investigating alleged misuse of church funds broke yesterday afternoon.
Media reports of the breaking news quickly led to a flurry of online chatter, including updates on blogs and social networking site Facebook, as well as frequent Twitter updates.
Most of the messages expressed shock at the news of the probe and most said they would pray for the church and its leaders through this 'difficult period'.
Undergraduate Teo Chin Ghee, 21, who has attended the church for the last four years, said she 'never expected' such a probe would take place.
'I trust the leadership of the church. I think they're as transparent as they can be (regarding finances),' she said.
Dr David Lam, 53, a general practitioner who has attended the church for nine years, added that he had absolute confidence in the church's leadership.

 

[SneeringTree]

Good post bro. Realistic likely outcomes knowing this environment.I understand more serious than that. The Govt is really peeved as they had for the very first time seated Kong Hee in the same group as the recognised religious leaders of the various faith during the last National Day Speech. The seating as you know is based on state protocol. Obviously they they realise the extent of his following and the need for votes from his congregation.

It also tells you how Satan is when you need to dupe the gullible.

I am certain that given the severity of the operation (e.g. simultaneous swoop on so many people and offices, confiscating computers and documents etc.), someone will get charged in court. I have a feeling though, Kong Hee will not be one of those charged. I suspect he never dirties his hands.

 

[BuiKia]

His family and him seems to be living the high life...


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[zuoom]

the holy spirit spoke to him? (4:06 in the above video clip.)

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

His family and him seems to be living the high life...

He flies to LA once a week or that's what i heard a few yrs back i wonder if he actually flies there and here back and forth weekly.

 

[The RealTuaKee]

His family and him seems to be living the high life...


What surprises me is why are those sheep in CHC still blinded to this fact?

His bitchy wife can behave, dress and rationalize her lifestyle that is in complete opposite to what the scriptures say. Be unequally yoke with nonbelievers, yet she dresses ostensibly for red carpets and yearns for recognition in the drug/sex influenced music world.

A truly man of god would separate himself from the things of this world, not long for success in business world.

Open your eyes, u silly sheep of CHC n those in other mega churches.

 

[leetahbar]

His family and him seems to be living the high life...


What surprises me is why are those sheep in CHC still blinded to this fact?

His bitchy wife can behave, dress and rationalize her lifestyle that is in complete opposite to what the scriptures say. Be unequally yoke with nonbelievers, yet she dresses ostensibly for red carpets and yearns for recognition in the drug/sex influenced music world.

A truly man of god would separate himself from the things of this world, not long for success in business world.

Open your eyes, u silly sheep of CHC n those in other mega churches.

these people have the gift of gabs. a salted dead stiff fish could even be preached until it springs to life.

 

[elephanto]

<dl class="avatar-comment-indent" id="comments-block"><dd class="comment-footer"> </dd><dt class="comment-author " id="c5244789785492442295">
Cheat Grace said... </dt><dd class="comment-body pid-1810504445" id="Blog1_cmt-5244789785492442295"> I read the statement by CHC ExecPs Dunn. The funny thing is that in the statement there is no statement of assurance that CHC has done nothing wrong or that the CHC leadership is confident that they will be totally exonerated from all wrongdoing in the near future. Only "we are cooperating fully.... CHC services and operations will continue..... keep the church in prayer." Hmmmmm.

If I was innocent of any wrongdoing, that would be the first thing I would proclaim.
</dd><dd class="comment-footer"> June 1, 2010 11:37 PM </dd><dt class="comment-author " id="c934730244019336010">
Cheat Grace said... </dt><dd class="comment-body pid-1810504445" id="Blog1_cmt-934730244019336010"> And the Senior Pastor is totally silent...
</dd><dd class="comment-footer"> June 1, 2010 11:39 PM </dd><dt class="comment-author " id="c9126327953075182044">

Anonymous said... </dt><dd class="comment-body " id="Blog1_cmt-9126327953075182044"> Ian,
but do you know that Xtron depends on huge funds injected from external parties through issuance of bonds? Who in their right mind would lend money to a company whose balance sheet shows low tangible asset values, high accummulated losses? It is not so simple as these 2 shareholders having the charisma. The amount of money involved over ten million dollars.
</dd><dd class="comment-footer"> June 1, 2010 11:41 PM </dd><dt class="comment-author " id="c1715512368294389724">

Anonymous said... </dt><dd class="comment-body " id="Blog1_cmt-1715512368294389724"> Cheat Grace,
you're back?
Do you know that Derek Dunn knows what is happening, and he got scolding from KH for doing something which was correct for the church's coffers, but bad for KH's dear wife.
</dd><dd class="comment-footer"> June 1, 2010 11:44 PM </dd><dt class="comment-author " id="c2269938175506910685">

Ian said... </dt><dd class="comment-body " id="Blog1_cmt-2269938175506910685"> To anon,

yes, i do know that Xtron depended on funding injected through external parties... guess the golden question is who are the external parties..

and who would "invest" in a company that has NEVER been profitable from day 1. Some of us know that the first few "assignment" by Xtron was to be the management for Sun Ho.

Honestly, i feel that it all started with Xtron.
I would think that the church believe that they rather their "own" people earn money from the church, instead of paying for the world to provide them services... you know, "cannot have the wealth of the righteous go to the wicked".

And now, the amounts tallied up to millions of dollars. Of course, it is a cause of concern for CAD.

Not to mention other related companies like AMAC, City Care (who proudly declared not part of CHC -> but look at the people in charge)... and of course, city college and O school.

In fact, i am glad that the CAD is involved to entangle this "mess" of webs that the church has gotten into.

While i can understand the reasons for starting these companies, they raise alot of ethical questions. Now the CAD will investigate to see if these are of legal questions also.
</dd><dd class="comment-footer"> June 1, 2010 11:53 PM </dd><dt class="comment-author " id="c8401028012503069579">
Landon Leo said... </dt><dd class="comment-body pid-909754982" id="Blog1_cmt-8401028012503069579"> Let's just wait and see. In situations like this, time will always tell the truth.

Personally, regardless if fault is found or not, my stand would be to support CHC. After all, this is indeed a consequence of living the cultural mandate. I've already accepted + embraced this fact (with both its advantages + disadvantages) a very long time ago, so such controversy is no stranger.

Yet I suppose not everyone else can many can stomach the same facts as I do....
</dd><dd class="comment-footer"> June 2, 2010 12:01 AM </dd><dt class="comment-author " id="c8357853994372914574">

Ian said... </dt><dd class="comment-body " id="Blog1_cmt-8357853994372914574"> To anon:

you said that "Do you know that Derek Dunn knows what is happening, and he got scolding from KH for doing something which was correct for the church's coffers, but bad for KH's dear wife."

Are you sure about this? if you are, please explain what happened. Don't post half-baked things like this please.
-----------

To Landon Leo

now it is a controversy. Controversy is not illegal. But should the investigation by the CAD comes up evidence that puts certain individuals for criminal breech of trust and misuse of church funds, then is NO longer a controversy, but a crime.

If fault is found, then we hope that the guilty parties be known to all, and that the mess will be cleared up.
Even so, i would feel that the church would be hugely affected by it, and would lose every single bit of creditability in the eyes of the public IF the current leadership remains.

I would think it is unlikely for the CAD to seize financial records and computers if not for a very good reason of suspecting that they can get some significant findings.

So contrary to what many members believe, this is NOT an INQUIRY by the police. It is much more serious than that. It is also bigger than a controversy.

It is also not simply inviting the individuals down for coffee at CAD. Don't forget that it was the COC that got the CAD involved. Clearly, they thought that some financial transactions were irregular.
</dd><dd class="comment-footer"> June 2, 2010 12:16 AM </dd><dt class="comment-author " id="c7775615895206784044">

Ian said... </dt><dd class="comment-body " id="Blog1_cmt-7775615895206784044"> typo mistake for above..

it should read "criminal breach of trust and misuse of church funds."
</dd><dd class="comment-footer"> June 2, 2010 12:18 AM </dd><dt class="comment-author " id="c4237132218933183177">

Anonymous said... </dt><dd class="comment-body " id="Blog1_cmt-4237132218933183177"> Oh, and look at this...

http://www.facebook.com/pages/We-believe-City-Harvest-church-is-framed-and-maligned/128265960532291

Can someone with some maturity tell these people to stop their nonsense. This will only make things worse in the eyes of everyone outside the church, christians and non-christians alike.
</dd><dd class="comment-footer"> June 2, 2010 12:45 AM </dd><dt class="comment-author " id="c941611310817703024">

Anonymous said... </dt><dd class="comment-body " id="Blog1_cmt-941611310817703024"> Ian,
whatever story that is being told to whitewash, the facts still stand:
1 Company was incorporated in 2003
2 The "older" shareholder/director was brought on board only in 2005
3 The "more recent" shareholder/director was brought on board only in 2007/2008.
4 Money amounting to more than S$20 million was poured in through unsecured bonds subscribed by BVI investors.
5 The Company's only client is the church, other than the loss making venture in producing music album.
Isn't it obvious that all these are manouerves by somebody working from behind the scene?

Concerning Derek Dunn's matter, I am not going to say anymore. I am sure you know the story as well.
</dd><dd class="comment-footer"> June 2, 2010 6:39 AM </dd><dt class="comment-author " id="c4316749624395752695">

Ian said... </dt><dd class="comment-body " id="Blog1_cmt-4316749624395752695"> To anon,

i know a little about Xtron and the questionable things about it.

But i do not know the matter regarding Derek Dunn. So i would be glad to hear of it.
</dd></dl>

 

[johnsgp1]

His family and him seems to be living the high life...


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they live a very high life, many years ago there was an article interviewing SUN and her house..if i can remember correctly, most of their furnitures are air flown in from Europe and USA...no matter if they $$ is from their own business or from the church, it is too bling, afterall they are church leaders and not all members are so well off like them..