Chinese missile could shift Pacific power balance

[longbow]

No lah, they cannot use UN without nod from Russia and China. Much of Asia was the big communist vs democracy argument - the Cold War (Taiwan vs PRC, N vs S Korea, Vietnam). The Brits after WW2 was a spent force and a non-entity clinging on to HK and trying to reap as much $ as they could. You are correct, many countries benefits from the communist vs democracy. America opened its markets to Taiwan and S Korea and that brought their economy to where it is today.

But contrary to what many think, Soviet threat was their nuclear weapons. But once you push use of such weapons aside (thankfully, they realize that it cannot be used), then Soviet economy could not fund a conventional arms build up to match the Americans. The Chinese, however, have a strong capitalist economy, that is a mfg superpower. So they have the $$ as well as the ability to weapon up if needed. In effect they have the ability to match US military investments or actually US has to match Chinese military investments given the 10to 1 ratio.

BTW cost of a US carrier is not just $5B. You must factor in planes, submarines, Ageis Ships, Frigates, supply ships, tankers and the whole infra to support a carrier group. 20 years ago, carriers are difficult to detect. In fact they still can be hard to detect.

However, many countries can launch their own satellites and the Chinese probably have a few of these looking at their coastline (not a power projection type spying on other countries which cost $$$). They can easily see a carrier moving to within 2K of their coast line. Once a carrier can be seen then it become vulnerable. This is why all that sophisticated radar jamming equipment is made useless by a $100M spy satellite.

There is actually no need to sink a carrier. I believe a 1000kg bomb on the flight deck would render it unusable. And if they have fighters in the air, these top of the line fighters could very well be rendered useless as they run out of fuel.

US and UK are never interested in peace in Asia per se. Some kind of wars must be stirred up now and then to keep their positions as self-appointed global police commissioner and police inspector, using UN as their rubber-stamp parliament. That's strategically and economically beneficial to them in both direct and indirect ways. In fact, many countries know that but play along because they'd benefit along the way too. These are their global police conscript reservists who now and then show up for show so that they'll get a share of the spoils. Singapore is one.

Russia and China have been trying to dislodge that for decades without much success, especially after the collapse of USSR. The other one with any say in this is France, which is caught in between neither here nor there deep enough to commit in any sense of commitment to either side.

 

[kirby]

PEOPLE'S LIBERATION ARMY ROCKET FORCES
SECOND ARTILLERY CORPS

The Second Artillery Corps is comprised of approximately 120,000 personnel and maintains control of over 300 nuclear warheads. According to the Chinese Central Military Commission (CMC) the Second Artillery Corps is given priority funding over all other PLA units. Although it only makes up about 4 percent of the PLA, it receives 12 to 15 percent of the defense budget and about 20 percent of the total procurement budget. When the PLA cut 1 million personnel in the 1980s, Second Artillery Corps ranks increased in total size.

The Second Artillery Corps is headquartered in Qinghe, a suburb of Beijing and maintains at least seven missile bases each with one to three missile brigades and regiment-level special departments responsible for chemical defense, communications, training, security and four launch battalions. Each base also has training and nuclear warhead maintenance units and reports directly to the Second Artillery Corps commander. Each missile brigade commands a number of permanent launch sites. For ease of maintenance, each missile brigade is responsible for only one type of missile.

80301 Unit. The 80301 Unit is headquartered in Shenyang, Liaoning Province. Its complement of DF-3A and DF-21 cover the Korean peninsula and Japan, including Okinawa.

80302 Unit. The 80302 Unit is headquartered in Huangshan, Anhui Province and is the Second Artillery's most important unit for conducting strikes against Taiwan. The 815th brigade in Leping took part in the March 1996 missile exercises off the coast of Taiwan. During a wartime situation the 815th brigade would disperse to prearranged sites in Fujian Province in to order to be able to strike the entire island of Taiwan. Missiles are usually transported by rail for field deployments.

80303 Unit. The 80303 Unit is headquartered in Kunming, Yunnan province. Its complement of DF-3A and DF-21 can strike targets in India and Southeast Asia.

80304 Unit. The 80304 Unit is headquartered in Luoyang, Henan province. Its DF-5 missiles can strike targets throughout the United States and Europe.

80305 Unit. The 80305 Unit is headquartered in Huaihua, Hunan province. Its DF-4 missiles can strike Guam.

80306 Unit. The 80306 Unit is headquartered in Xining, Qinghai province. Its DF-4 missiles can strike targets in India and Russia. This unit may also have an experimental unit assigned to it.


RANGES OF THE CHINESE MISSILES

VARIANTS OF THE CHINESE MISSILES

DONG FENG 11 TACTICAL MISSILE

RANGE - 186 MILES 1993 VERSION
510 MILES 2002 ADVANCED VERSION
WARHEAD - 50 or 350 KILOTON TACTICAL NUCLEAR
(1000 KG) 2,200 POUND CONVENTIONAL
ENGINE - SOLID PROPELLANT
GUIDANCE - STRAP DOWN INERTIAL
C.E.P. - LESS THAN 200 METERS

NUMBER DEPLOYED : 400


###

RANGE - 1,200 MILES
WARHEAD - SINGLE 300 KILOTON THERMONUCLEAR
NEW X VERSION WITH 250 KILOTON NUCLEAR
ENGINE - TWO STAGE SOLID PROPELLANT
GUIDANCE - INERTIAL/FIBER OPTIC/GPS
NEW X VERSION ACTIVE RADAR IMAGING MARV
C.E.P. - LESS THAN 200 METERS
NEW X VERSION ACCURACY RATED AT 10 METERS

NUMBER DEPLOYED : 90

NEW DONG FENG 21 X WITH ACTIVE RADAR IMAGING GUIDED WARHEAD


###


JULANG 1 GREAT WAVE 1 SLBM

RANGE - 1,200 MILES
WARHEAD - SINGLE 300 KILOTON THERMONUCLEAR
ENGINE - TWO STAGE SOLID PROPELLANT
GUIDANCE - INERTIAL/FIBER OPTIC/GPS
C.E.P. - LESS THAN 200 METERS

NUMBER DEPLOYED 16

###

DONG FENG 25 IRBM

CUT-AWAY VIEW OF THREE WARHEAD DONG FENG 25 POST BOOST VEHICLE


RANGE - 1,500 MILES
WARHEAD - THREE 250 KILOTON NUCLEAR
ENGINE - TWO STAGE SOLID PROPELLANT
GUIDANCE - INERTIAL/FIBER OPTIC
C.E.P. - LESS THAN 10 METERS

NUMBER DEPLOYED :10


###

JULANG 2 GREAT WAVE 2 SLBM

RANGE - 7,500 MILES
WARHEAD - SINGLE 2.5 MEGATON THERMONUCLEAR OR
THREE 90 KILOTON NUCLEAR
ENGINE - THREE STAGE SOLID PROPELLANT
GUIDANCE - INERTIAL/FIBER OPTIC
C.E.P. - LESS THAN 300 METERS

NUMBER DEPLOYED : (NUMBERS UNDISCLOSED BUT OPERATIONAL SINCE 2008)

The Julang 2 missile was successfully tested by the PLA Navy in Jan. 2001 and a successful test of the undersea launch system was conducted in October 2001. This system is planned for installation on the Type 94 SLBM submarine at Huludao. Each PLA Navy "boomer" is designed to carry 12 JL-2 missiles in a sail like configuration similar to Russian designed Delta class boats.


###

DONG FENG 31 ICBM

RANGE - 7,500 MILES
WARHEAD - SINGLE 2.5 MEGATON THERMONUCLEAR OR
THREE 90 KILOTON NUCLEAR
ENGINE - THREE STAGE SOLID PROPELLANT
GUIDANCE - INERTIAL/FIBER OPTIC
C.E.P. - LESS THAN 300 METERS

NUMBER DEPLOYED : 12

DONG FENG 31 CAN STRIKE THREE TARGETS WITH NUCLEAR WARHEADS

CROSS-SECTION OF THE RE-ENTRY VEHICLE


The new Dong Feng 31 (DF-31) missiles are attached to the 80304 Unit of the Second Artillery Corps. The 80304 Unit is headquartered in Luoyang, Henan province. The new Dong Feng (EAST WIND) 31 missile performed flawlessly during its test flights. The DF-31 can reach any city in America and is armed with three nuclear warheads. The DF-31 has Clinton-supplied guidance, nuclear warhead, nose cone and solid rocket engine technologies.

The DF-31 is equipped with many technologies stolen or bought from America during Clinton's term. The DF-31 success was so spectacular that the the PLA 2nd Artillery will deploy 24 missiles.

DF-31 is a road mobile, nuclear tipped SCUD like missile, that is nearly impossible to find, much less destroy. It is intended to counter the USAF B-2 bomber in a "limited" nuclear war scenario where China and the U.S. would only kill a few million people on each side. If deployed in large numbers, the DF-31 could pose a significant first strike theat against stationary military targets inside the U.S. homeland, such as the MX missile fields and the single B-2 bomber base.


###

DONG FENG 41 ICBM

RANGE - 7,500 MILES
WARHEAD - SINGLE 500 KILOTON MARV EVADER WARHEAD
ENGINE - THREE STAGE SOLID PROPELLANT
GUIDANCE - INERTIAL/FIBER OPTIC
C.E.P. - LESS THAN 100 METERS

NUMBER DEPLOYED : UNDISCLOSED


###

DONG FENG 5 (CSS-4) ICBM

RANGE - 7,500 MILES
WARHEAD - SINGLE 3 MEGATON THERMONUCLEAR
ENGINE - TWO STAGE LIQUID PROPELLANT
GUIDANCE - STRAP DOWN INERTIAL
C.E.P. - LESS THAN 300 METERS

NUMBER DEPLOYED : 20

###

DONG FENG 4 ICBM

RANGE - 4,500 MILES
WARHEAD - SINGLE 3 MEGATON THERMONUCLEAR
ENGINE - TWO STAGE LIQUID PROPELLANT
GUIDANCE - STRAP DOWN INERTIAL
C.E.P. - LESS THAN 300 METERS

NUMBER DEPLOYED : 20

 

[longbow]

Chinese not interested in Nuclear arms race. They figured that weapons cannot be used as it will cause mutual destruction. As it is they have very few warheads and have made no attempts to build more. None of the large responsible nations will ever use such a device.

If you distill it down, what Beijing wants is better living standards for its people. To level the uneven distribution of wealth, provide better healthcare - in short it wants to be 1st world nation. With its huge population and different ethnic diversity does not take much to have social unrest. Social unrest is what can tear apart the country.

Much as the West has complained about internet restrictions, the internet forums are alive with complaints, talks about social issues. And since Chinese are making more money and beijing is spending $$ in infra - people are able to communicate via cell phones, websites or even just travel. It is not just the manic chants of "democracy" which is pointless if you people are too poor, uneducated, isolated to participate in the process. An increasing number of Chinese are able to travel overseas due to better economy and so these people will see for themselves what the West is about.

Other than Taiwan and Tibet, Chinese will prefer to negotiate then fight. Wars are bad for business and they want business to develop to - yes, provide better living standards for its people.

Take Spratly islands. Lets say there is $500B in oil there. That is peanuts to the Chinese - definately not worth going to war for (business decision). Right now they buy lots of commodities from Indonesia, Malaysia, Phiippines. These are all claimants to Spratly. So for potential $500B turn ASEAN into enemies? They can make more than $500B from ASEAN in trade alone.

So they lodge their claim together with others. And the whole matter will end up in some court and possibly end up with some shared arrangement. I can see Petro China/SinoPec doing the exploration and royalties paid to the various countries. For smaller countries - why not, do nothing and get a check every month.

 

[kirby]

They ought to have enough deterrence to stop the warmongers in Washington.
The Chinese play chess and the Americans shoot craps and that pretty much explains everything. It is only prudent to be ready for any eventualities concerning the western people. That was the primary reason why the Chinese built a lot of mega tonnage N-bombs. What right does America have to station their N-bombs in S. Korea and Japan when they kpkb so much about Cuba having the Soviet's bombs ? Might is always right but they have to make sure that the others don't escape annihilation if the unthinkable happens.

With this developement, America will think more than twice about interfering where they are not wanted.

 

[kirby]

Retrospectively, it is not wise for China to increase their missiles pointed at Taiwan.
At the rate China is growing, Taiwan is stupid not to be part of China, hence the futility of sabre rattling and ominous threats. The only way to go is through dialogue and subsequent amicable intergration. They have to win over Taiwan by way of democratising themselves first and the rest of the pieces will fall into place.

Taiwan is but a small piece of China but a broken Taiwan is of no use to anyone. To sum it up, Taiwan couldn't exists economically without China today and it is downright irresponsible to force Taiwan into intergration. In this instance, the carrot is the better choice than the stick.

 

[scroobal]

China is not going to rain missles on their own citizens studying, working and living in 1st world countries who are their notional enemies. The buildup is to please the most powerful and senior faction of the CCP. To give them toys and make them feel important. China has already got the US by the balls by refusing to devalue their currency and accummulating huge surpluses. China manufactures Apple Iphones to too many things using vast number of their citizens. There will be a riot in their own country if manufacuring grounds to a halt.

This is not the cold war where the threat was real and the iron curtain did not let its citizens travel and had closed economies.

Notice that articles on superpowers flexing their muscles is no longer mainstream reportage. Only appears amongst enthusiast in internet and hobby magazines. More attention is paid to regional conflicts and religious conflicts such as taliban, iraq, iran and afghanisatan.

The main concern with China is their search for a blue water port access, thus the courtship of Mynmar.

You would be better of writing about the Chinese chickens appearing as far south as Buenos Aires. Their invasion as seen in Geylang is even more potent.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

China has come of age and scares the shit out of the Americans.

wa serious china scares the great usa?

according to some expert here, that only read the tail end of the article that mentioned that china had one of the largest human armies in the world while ignoring the entire technological aspect of the article and using an analogy from WW2 about how the US and the allies managed to win WW2 with lesser human troops to showcase that the US could still win a infantry fight with china even if they have lesser troops.


Anyway the post i quoted from you shows china taking over mongolia which actually in some ways has already been overtaken since it's mostly a desert country with little world wide significance. The taking over parts of russia are justified to me.

Firstly didn't those areas once belong to china? I forgot the name of that river that was used to seperate it from china to give to russia but it's quite a huge piece of land. Well by living back there china is just merely taking back what belongs to it. I still wonder why the russians are so pissed though. They have such a sparse population and they have the largest country in the world. What's the russian far east to them? It used to belong to china. Look at russia bullying their minorities in the caucasus mountains and do you know caucasians are discriminated in russia. I know it's weird right since technically russians are caucasians. Well caucasian is a very very broad term and in russia it means those minority groups from the caucasus mountains whom are mostly muslim.


Every country wants to expand their territory and most countries that have majorities discriminate their minorities in very obvious ways excluding singapore. Yet the finger is only pointed at china where they treat minorities better than their own majority race. When russia kills their minorities nope nobody says anything. When china does it, it's open season to racially discriminate all chinese and ramseth would be the first one to do it even though he's a chinese as he claims.

 

[Ramseth]

Chinese not interested in Nuclear arms race. They figured that weapons cannot be used as it will cause mutual destruction. As it is they have very few warheads and have made no attempts to build more. None of the large responsible nations will ever use such a device.

Britain, France and China adopt a stop at about 200 nuke warheads policy. It's like what the hell, since we have them, might as well keep some as some others have them too. Enough to blow up a continent already. USA and USSR (now Russia) were the two megalomaniac morons who kept making thousands and thousands, more than enough to blow up the whole earth. Can't use them, but scrapping them is such a waste, stuck with them.

 

[manokie]

Britain, France and China adopt a stop at about 200 nuke warheads policy. It's like what the hell, since we have them, might as well keep some as some others have them too. Enough to blow up a continent already. USA and USSR (now Russia) were the two megalomaniac morons who kept making thousands and thousands, more than enough to blow up the whole earth. Can't use them, but scrapping them is such a waste, stuck with them.

They should use some on China!

 

[Ramseth]

They should use some on China!

你跟中国有什么不共戴天之仇？