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That is very sad . But as I always say .. Every country have good and fuck up ppl .. China also have nice PRC around but the percentage is very low .
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Chinese Embassy in Tokyo received bullet threat from "Jap's PM"
- Thread starter makapaaa
- Start date
That is very sad . But as I always say .. Every country have good and fuck up ppl .. China also have nice PRC around but the percentage is very low .
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As you say early .. Facts is facts ..there's nothing wrong calling those PRC ah tiong . If my wife isn't Japanese I will still call them ah tiong . How many ppl here call those PRC ah tiong ? You mean their wife also Japanese ?
Taiwan (only some ppl not all taiwanese , dont forget alot of taiwanese love japan thats why you can see many kanji sign around taiwan ) and Korea are upset because they are taught how to hate the Japanese in school ( check YouTube for proof ) .
All those country politicians are just sour grape because of Japan . Same like what Malaysia hated Singapore. Don't be fool by politician games
Sinkies call them Ah Tiong. Taiwanese are worse. They call them 支那猪
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What do Sinkie chinks care about besides money?
Yah but we know drive and not go far enough to really sell out mother father and all morals yet. Weak species.
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You can call PRC Ah Tiong for all you want but don't talk derogatively of people who support PRC for a cause which is historically right.
Some Taiwanese love the Japanese for some historical contribution to Taiwan but they are not so dumb as to agree to accede territory to Japan for something which historically is theirs.
Koreans all along think they are a culturally superior people to the Japanese. There is DNA evidence to suggest that the main Japanese race descended from Koreans as recently as just 2000 odd years ago. That is why Koreans resent the Japanese for their occupation of Korea. Even now, because Japan never admits its guilt.
South East Asia have also been occupied by Japs during the War. And as long as Japan does not admit its guilt for war atrocities, it will remain as a cloud in SEA-Jap relationship. So it has nothing to do with Ah Tiong. Your prejudice with Ah Tiong has really blurred your vision.
All those country politicians are just sour grape because of Japan . Same like what Malaysia hated Singapore
Drifter, don't be fooled by politician games of the big powers. No one is eating sour grapes with regard to Japan, especially with the economical decline of Japan. Have you ever wonder why Japan would surrender and kowtow to western powers but does not admit of doing wrong with all their Asian neighbours?
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"You can call PRC Ah Tiong for all you want but don't talk derogatively of people who support PRC for a cause which is historically right"
Since when I talk derogativy of ppl who support ah tiong , I'm just saying don't be blind by those dirty politic games they play . Nobody deny those history here . What I'm try to say is , what happen already happen and it's not the present Japanese that rapes or kill . When comes to war nobody is saint .. You have to understand it . My grandmother suffer during the war . Until now she don't blame the new generation of Japanese .
"Some Taiwanese love the Japanese for some historical contribution to Taiwan but they are not so dumb as to agree to accede territory to Japan for something which historically is theirs "
Japan claim the territory , Taiwan claim the territory , china claim the territory so whose territory is that actucally ?
"Koreans all along think they are a culturally superior people to the Japanese. There is DNA evidence to suggest that the main Japanese race descended from Koreans as recently as just 2000 odd years ago. That is why Koreans resent the Japanese for their occupation of Korea. Even now, because Japan never admits its guilt " .
Japan race descended from Korean ? So Korean descended from where ? If u want to start that why not u say humans comes from homo sepians better , right ? You are going to far .
Japan never admit its guilt ? Since when ? Why you think like those ah tiong ? What u want the Japanese to do ? Kill themselves now ? Japan already apologize to the world . That is just a political game play by those ah tiong .. And you actucally buy that ?
"Drifter, don't be fooled by politician games of the big powers. No one is eating sour grapes with regard to Japan, especially with the economical decline of Japan. Have you ever wonder why Japan would surrender and kowtow to western powers but does not admit of doing wrong with all their Asian neighbours " .
Show me edvidence that Japan never admit . As I say many times during war time no country is Saint . And Japan already apologize for the war crime . It's time to move on . War and dispute started because ppl don't want to forgive and forget . Did mao ze tong apologize for his crime ? Why ah tiong still treat him like hero .. Don't be fool by an dirty politics game
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Sinkies call them Ah Tiong. Taiwanese are worse. They call them 支那猪
That's right , even hongkie have a name for them ... Where's the loctus video in YouTube ?
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The Koreans claim Confucius is Korean. There is one thing I have learned about Koreans, they are rather shameless when it comes to claiming credits in history.
Since when did Japan make a full and unconditional apology as a country, not as individual? Like that a drunk can apologize for the obliteration of one country to another after one country obliterates the other. Japan wants to hide behind unique culture it will get it soon in all kinds of unique cultural responses of the likes it has never seen. For those who need a lesson in apology see Germany after WWII. That is an apology. If Japs want to continue to play punk and talk big, level all the factories in China and apologize like LKY. We regret the inconvenience caused to Japanese business interests. Then after that do not expect any apologies. It is a very simple gain. You want to see a right of return? China can give it. Is it going to be painful? Yes. Who will hurt more and take more? Well, let us find out and not listen to either sides claiming moral superiority. As far as I am concerned East Asia is a disease.
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Contents
1. What are the causes of the political tensions between Japan and China ?
1.1 Summary of causes for the recent tensions between China and Japan
2. Has Japan apologised to China for its invasion and war crimes ?
3. Who is to blame for the current state of affairs ?
4. How could Japan and China improve their relationship ?
4.1 What Japan should do
4.2 What China should do
5. Possible consequences for Japan
6. Related articles
Violent anti-Japanese demonstrations have taken place in various Chinese cities in April 2005, including about 10,000 people protesting in front of the Japanese embassy in Beijing. There were stones and eggs thrown at the Japanese embassy, and the windows of Japanese restaurants were smashed. No Japanese citizen has been killed or seriously injured though.
What are the causes of the political tensions between Japan and China ?
Japan invaded East Asia, as far as India, during the Second World War. It occupied Korea and parts of Manchuria since 1905, and most of North-Eastern China since 1937. (see Japanese Expansionism).
During the occupation of China in particular, the Japanese Imperial Army acted in a brutal and cruel way, killing an estimated 10 million civilians and 2.5 million soldiers in China alone (the Chinese government officially claims that 30 million of its citizens were killed by the Japanese).
China claims that Japan has never apologised for its war crimes, and is particularly angry at Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi, who paid official homage several times to class-A war criminals at the Yasukuni-jina Shrine since he was elected as PM in 2001.
The Japanese Ministry of Education has also recently approved 7 new history textbooks criticised for their nationalist content and their downplaying of Japanese atrocities committed during WWII.
Among them is the infamous Nanjing Massacre in 1937, where 50,000 to 300,000 civilians were raped and murdered by the Japanese. The fact that some high-ranking Japanese politicians, like Tokyo Governor Shintaro Ishihara, have denied that the Nanjing Massacre ever happened only makes things worse.
Germany has apologised for its role in WWII, and German history textbooks insist on Germany's responsibility in the holocaust. There is also no shrine dedicated to Hitler or other Nazi leaders in Germany. As a result, Germany has now made peace with all its neighbours and is a respected and appreciated member of the European Union. Japan still has a long way to go before it can gain the same respect in Asia, especially in China.
Summary of causes for the recent tensions between China and Japan
No apologies from the emperor for WWII crimes.
Prime Minister paying public homage every year to Japanese war criminals equivalent to Hitler or Goebbels. (see article)
History textbooks playing down the atrocities committed by the Japanese in China.
Famous politicians (eg. Shintaro Ishihara, governor of Tokyo) claiming that the Nanjing Massacre never happened, with tacit public support (and he got re-elected!).
General sentiment of the Japanese population that they don't need to apologise for the WWII because China will presumably not accept their apologies.
Chinese people still frequently killed by canisters of poisonous gas buried in China by the Japanese in WWII.
Dispute over the ownership of the Senkaku islands, near Okinawa. (see article)
Dispute over the exploitation of gas in the East China Sea. (see article)
Has Japan apologised to China for its invasion and war crimes ?
If we have a look at the List of war apology statements issued by Japan, it could appear as if Japan has indeed apologised many times for its WWII atrocities. However, a better look reveals that Japan has mostly apologised to Korea and South-East Asian countries, but no proper official apology was issued to China.
It is surprising that among the 35 war-apology-related quotes, almost all of them are addressed to Korea, a few are not directed at any particular country, and very few are addressed to the People's Republic of China. In fact, I only found mentions of China in these speeches, and none of them have for main purpose to give a genuine apology, mentioning the massacres, rapes, plunder, sexual slavery and biological experiment on live humans. The emperor has never apologised to China.
1972 : Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka on the Joint Communique of the Government of Japan and the Government of the People's Republic of China
=> This was not an apology, but just a treaty of peace and friendship to "put an end to the abnormal state of affairs between the two countries" (i.e. resume diplomatic relations and for Japan to officially recognise the PRC as a sovereign nation). China nevertheless signed that "it renounces its demand for war reparation from Japan." But the Chinese haven't asked for any recently. They just want an official apology.
1982 : Statement by Chief Cabinet Secretary Kiichi Miyazawa on History Textbooks
=> Fair enough. Just commenting on the textbooks. He was not even the Prime Minister, so that shouldn't count as a valid official apology.
1997 : Speech by Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto : Seeking a New Foreign Policy Toward China
=> The purpose of the speech is Foreign Policy, not just to apologise. It briefly mentioned "China and the other nations of Asia". It is not an official apology to the PRC.
1997 : Ministry of Foreign Affairs Press Conference on: Visit of Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto to the People's Republic of China
=> That was a press conference at the Shangri-la Hotel, hardly an official apology from government to government. Whats' more, it was a personal apology, not a public one: "the Prime Minister expressed his feeling of deep remorse and stated his heartfelt apology".
1998 : Prime Minister Keizo Obuchi on Japan-China Joint Declaration On Building a Partnership of Friendship and Cooperation for Peace and Development
=> Again, the purpose was not to sincerely apologise. It only mentions "The Japanese side is keenly conscious of the responsibility for the serious distress and damage that Japan caused to the Chinese people through its aggression against China during a certain period in the past and expressed deep remorse for this. The Chinese side hopes that the Japanese side will learn lessons from the history and adhere to the path of peace and development. ".
So, Japan has apologised for its war crimes, but not to the People's Republic of China, where it committed its worst atrocities. It would also be preferable that the Emperor apologises for the nation, and not the Prime Minister. The reason is that the wrong-doings were committed by the Japanese Imperial Army, and the Minister of the Army did not answer to the Prime Minister, but directly to the Emperor, who was the Supreme Commander. Although the Emperor's role in WWII remains controversial, it is worth noting that he was considered as a living god at the time, and that many Japanese soldiers died in the name of the Emperor. What is more, the Emperor has already apologised to Korea, so there is no reason to refuse to do the same for China.
Japan's apologies should mention its invasion and occupation of China, the massacre of millions of people (including Nanjing), forced labour, sexual slavery ("comfort women"), mass looting and biological wafare experiments on live human beings (such as Unit 731).
Who is to blame for the current state of affairs ?
Both sides have their part of responsibility. Chinese textbooks are not more impartial than Japanese ones, and the Chinese government can also be blamed for setting its people against Japan. However, most of the blame incurs to Japan, especially the top politicians who approved the new textbooks, visited the Yasukuni Shrine, and downplayed or negated Japan's war-time atrocities. The fact the the Chinese Communist Party was responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of its own people means that China is no better than Japan, but is irrelevant in the current relationship problem between the two countries.
It is true that China has been trying to divert its own people's frustrations toward the outside so as to avoid protest against its the Communist Party, and Japan has done the same under its military regime in the 1930's by invading Asia. However, Japan is still quick to blame other countries for its problems, be it China, the US or others. The Japanese always want to make themselves appear like victims. Even now, Japan asked for an apology from China for the demonstrations (see article). That's pretty far-fetched considering that Chinese people are demonstrating to obtain an apology from Japan.
Almost all the Japanese with whom I discussed this issue say that they do not understand why the Chinese are attacking the Japanese embassy/consulates, Japanese restaurants, people, etc. They always look at it as if Japan was innocent in the first place and the Chinese had no reason to complain. Although they do know about their Prime Minister's visit to the Yasukuni-jinja, the history textbooks and other issues, their reaction is usually in the lines of "Japan has nothing to apologise for", "Japan is a victim of the indoctrination of the Chinese education system", "the Chinese hate us and will always hate us", etc.
Most of the Japanese people I talked to were convinced that the Chinese were protesting because they were brainwashed since the childhood to hate Japan and Japanese people. Many Japanese think that the Chinese hate today's Japanese. But if it were true there would be much more problems and violent attacks, considering that thousands of Japanese companies are established in China, and about one million Chinese visit or go to work or study to Japan each year. Many of today's Chinese people actually like or even admire Japan for its technology or pop-culture. They want peace and friendship with Japan. Out of 1.3 billion Chinese, only a few tens of thousands people felt strongly enough about these issues to participate in the anti-Japan demonstrations, and they are just asking for a proper apology, not monetary reparartions or anything else.
The BBC's special issue Chinese views on Japan can shed some light on what the average Chinese people think of Japan. Most people interviewed say they like Japanese people, but that it would be better for the Japanese government to apologise for WWII. No vicious hatred or irrational brainwashing there.
How could Japan and China improve their relationship ?
It seems obvious that the behaviour of ordinary people is not going to change until the two governments change their attitude first. In my opinion, Japan should make the first step, because it invaded China in the first place.
What Japan should do is :
Apologise formally to China for its war crimes, and not as a part of another speech. Ideally the Emperor should be the one to apologise.
Change history books used in schools and explain clearly and neutrally what happened during WWII, including the Nanjing massacre.
Prohibit politicians from making racist comments or negate actual facts (about WWII).
Prohibit politicians from going to Yasukuni-jinja, or move war criminals somewhere else.
Avoid sanctioning or over-taxing Chinese products
Make it easier for Chinese people born in Japan to be naturalized, (and possibly also for Chinese tourists to visit Japan).
What China should do :
Stop indoctrinating its people against Japan (i.e. change education system and the way history is taught).
Make it easier for Japanese tourists to visit China (e.g. extending the length of the visa exemption for tourists)
What could be the consequences for Japan if it does not apologise ?
It is certainly not the right decision for Japan to postpone its apologies. China is keeping anti-Japanese resentment high through the education and media. But at the same time the Chinese government keeps control over anti-Japanese demonstrations so that they do not attack Japanese companies or factories in China, because it doesn't want to lose Japanese investment by scaring Japanese corporations away. The PRC government is well aware that they need the tax money imposed on Japanese companies in China, and that Japanese investments help the Chinese economy to grow. But once China will have become strong enough economically and militarily (in anywhere between 10 and 50 years' time), China could nationalise the Japanese companies on its territory, the invade Japan, and finally get its long-awaited revenge on its hereditary enemy, on a country that 60 years after the end of WWII still refuses to apologise properly, and let top politicians honouring war criminals and publicly deny Japanese war crimes.
It seems obvious that China is swallowing its feelings for the time being, because it knows very well it cannot get a satisfying revenge until it grows more powerful the Japan and has a stable economy. It will be too late for the Japanese to apologise. Who wants apologies given under the influence of fear ? That cannot possibly be sincere. So if Japan persists in its denial and refusal to bring the emperor to apologise, and solve all or most of the afore-mentioned problems, China will have good reasons to attack Japan when it will be able to do so. Only the US could possibly stop them from doing that, if they want to go to war with China... but that's the last thing they want!
Another reason for Japan to apologise is to avoid criticism from the international community and comparison to Germany that would make Japan look immature, stubborn and reprehensible. Japan also doesn't want to be compared to China in the way it indoctrinates its people through history textbooks. So far, Japan has been acting very much like the Chinese Communist Party, something that can only deteriorate Japan's political image around the world.
If Japan and China cannot agree on the terms of the apology to be made, and the content of their respective history textbooks, it would be better for them to ask the United Nations to act as a mediator. That is also why the UN is there. It is just sad that two countries that are mature enough to solve their own problem should have a permanent seat in the U.N. Security Council.
1. What are the causes of the political tensions between Japan and China ?
1.1 Summary of causes for the recent tensions between China and Japan
2. Has Japan apologised to China for its invasion and war crimes ?
3. Who is to blame for the current state of affairs ?
4. How could Japan and China improve their relationship ?
4.1 What Japan should do
4.2 What China should do
5. Possible consequences for Japan
6. Related articles
Violent anti-Japanese demonstrations have taken place in various Chinese cities in April 2005, including about 10,000 people protesting in front of the Japanese embassy in Beijing. There were stones and eggs thrown at the Japanese embassy, and the windows of Japanese restaurants were smashed. No Japanese citizen has been killed or seriously injured though.
What are the causes of the political tensions between Japan and China ?
Japan invaded East Asia, as far as India, during the Second World War. It occupied Korea and parts of Manchuria since 1905, and most of North-Eastern China since 1937. (see Japanese Expansionism).
During the occupation of China in particular, the Japanese Imperial Army acted in a brutal and cruel way, killing an estimated 10 million civilians and 2.5 million soldiers in China alone (the Chinese government officially claims that 30 million of its citizens were killed by the Japanese).
China claims that Japan has never apologised for its war crimes, and is particularly angry at Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi, who paid official homage several times to class-A war criminals at the Yasukuni-jina Shrine since he was elected as PM in 2001.
The Japanese Ministry of Education has also recently approved 7 new history textbooks criticised for their nationalist content and their downplaying of Japanese atrocities committed during WWII.
Among them is the infamous Nanjing Massacre in 1937, where 50,000 to 300,000 civilians were raped and murdered by the Japanese. The fact that some high-ranking Japanese politicians, like Tokyo Governor Shintaro Ishihara, have denied that the Nanjing Massacre ever happened only makes things worse.
Germany has apologised for its role in WWII, and German history textbooks insist on Germany's responsibility in the holocaust. There is also no shrine dedicated to Hitler or other Nazi leaders in Germany. As a result, Germany has now made peace with all its neighbours and is a respected and appreciated member of the European Union. Japan still has a long way to go before it can gain the same respect in Asia, especially in China.
Summary of causes for the recent tensions between China and Japan
No apologies from the emperor for WWII crimes.
Prime Minister paying public homage every year to Japanese war criminals equivalent to Hitler or Goebbels. (see article)
History textbooks playing down the atrocities committed by the Japanese in China.
Famous politicians (eg. Shintaro Ishihara, governor of Tokyo) claiming that the Nanjing Massacre never happened, with tacit public support (and he got re-elected!).
General sentiment of the Japanese population that they don't need to apologise for the WWII because China will presumably not accept their apologies.
Chinese people still frequently killed by canisters of poisonous gas buried in China by the Japanese in WWII.
Dispute over the ownership of the Senkaku islands, near Okinawa. (see article)
Dispute over the exploitation of gas in the East China Sea. (see article)
Has Japan apologised to China for its invasion and war crimes ?
If we have a look at the List of war apology statements issued by Japan, it could appear as if Japan has indeed apologised many times for its WWII atrocities. However, a better look reveals that Japan has mostly apologised to Korea and South-East Asian countries, but no proper official apology was issued to China.
It is surprising that among the 35 war-apology-related quotes, almost all of them are addressed to Korea, a few are not directed at any particular country, and very few are addressed to the People's Republic of China. In fact, I only found mentions of China in these speeches, and none of them have for main purpose to give a genuine apology, mentioning the massacres, rapes, plunder, sexual slavery and biological experiment on live humans. The emperor has never apologised to China.
1972 : Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka on the Joint Communique of the Government of Japan and the Government of the People's Republic of China
=> This was not an apology, but just a treaty of peace and friendship to "put an end to the abnormal state of affairs between the two countries" (i.e. resume diplomatic relations and for Japan to officially recognise the PRC as a sovereign nation). China nevertheless signed that "it renounces its demand for war reparation from Japan." But the Chinese haven't asked for any recently. They just want an official apology.
1982 : Statement by Chief Cabinet Secretary Kiichi Miyazawa on History Textbooks
=> Fair enough. Just commenting on the textbooks. He was not even the Prime Minister, so that shouldn't count as a valid official apology.
1997 : Speech by Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto : Seeking a New Foreign Policy Toward China
=> The purpose of the speech is Foreign Policy, not just to apologise. It briefly mentioned "China and the other nations of Asia". It is not an official apology to the PRC.
1997 : Ministry of Foreign Affairs Press Conference on: Visit of Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto to the People's Republic of China
=> That was a press conference at the Shangri-la Hotel, hardly an official apology from government to government. Whats' more, it was a personal apology, not a public one: "the Prime Minister expressed his feeling of deep remorse and stated his heartfelt apology".
1998 : Prime Minister Keizo Obuchi on Japan-China Joint Declaration On Building a Partnership of Friendship and Cooperation for Peace and Development
=> Again, the purpose was not to sincerely apologise. It only mentions "The Japanese side is keenly conscious of the responsibility for the serious distress and damage that Japan caused to the Chinese people through its aggression against China during a certain period in the past and expressed deep remorse for this. The Chinese side hopes that the Japanese side will learn lessons from the history and adhere to the path of peace and development. ".
So, Japan has apologised for its war crimes, but not to the People's Republic of China, where it committed its worst atrocities. It would also be preferable that the Emperor apologises for the nation, and not the Prime Minister. The reason is that the wrong-doings were committed by the Japanese Imperial Army, and the Minister of the Army did not answer to the Prime Minister, but directly to the Emperor, who was the Supreme Commander. Although the Emperor's role in WWII remains controversial, it is worth noting that he was considered as a living god at the time, and that many Japanese soldiers died in the name of the Emperor. What is more, the Emperor has already apologised to Korea, so there is no reason to refuse to do the same for China.
Japan's apologies should mention its invasion and occupation of China, the massacre of millions of people (including Nanjing), forced labour, sexual slavery ("comfort women"), mass looting and biological wafare experiments on live human beings (such as Unit 731).
Who is to blame for the current state of affairs ?
Both sides have their part of responsibility. Chinese textbooks are not more impartial than Japanese ones, and the Chinese government can also be blamed for setting its people against Japan. However, most of the blame incurs to Japan, especially the top politicians who approved the new textbooks, visited the Yasukuni Shrine, and downplayed or negated Japan's war-time atrocities. The fact the the Chinese Communist Party was responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of its own people means that China is no better than Japan, but is irrelevant in the current relationship problem between the two countries.
It is true that China has been trying to divert its own people's frustrations toward the outside so as to avoid protest against its the Communist Party, and Japan has done the same under its military regime in the 1930's by invading Asia. However, Japan is still quick to blame other countries for its problems, be it China, the US or others. The Japanese always want to make themselves appear like victims. Even now, Japan asked for an apology from China for the demonstrations (see article). That's pretty far-fetched considering that Chinese people are demonstrating to obtain an apology from Japan.
Almost all the Japanese with whom I discussed this issue say that they do not understand why the Chinese are attacking the Japanese embassy/consulates, Japanese restaurants, people, etc. They always look at it as if Japan was innocent in the first place and the Chinese had no reason to complain. Although they do know about their Prime Minister's visit to the Yasukuni-jinja, the history textbooks and other issues, their reaction is usually in the lines of "Japan has nothing to apologise for", "Japan is a victim of the indoctrination of the Chinese education system", "the Chinese hate us and will always hate us", etc.
Most of the Japanese people I talked to were convinced that the Chinese were protesting because they were brainwashed since the childhood to hate Japan and Japanese people. Many Japanese think that the Chinese hate today's Japanese. But if it were true there would be much more problems and violent attacks, considering that thousands of Japanese companies are established in China, and about one million Chinese visit or go to work or study to Japan each year. Many of today's Chinese people actually like or even admire Japan for its technology or pop-culture. They want peace and friendship with Japan. Out of 1.3 billion Chinese, only a few tens of thousands people felt strongly enough about these issues to participate in the anti-Japan demonstrations, and they are just asking for a proper apology, not monetary reparartions or anything else.
The BBC's special issue Chinese views on Japan can shed some light on what the average Chinese people think of Japan. Most people interviewed say they like Japanese people, but that it would be better for the Japanese government to apologise for WWII. No vicious hatred or irrational brainwashing there.
How could Japan and China improve their relationship ?
It seems obvious that the behaviour of ordinary people is not going to change until the two governments change their attitude first. In my opinion, Japan should make the first step, because it invaded China in the first place.
What Japan should do is :
Apologise formally to China for its war crimes, and not as a part of another speech. Ideally the Emperor should be the one to apologise.
Change history books used in schools and explain clearly and neutrally what happened during WWII, including the Nanjing massacre.
Prohibit politicians from making racist comments or negate actual facts (about WWII).
Prohibit politicians from going to Yasukuni-jinja, or move war criminals somewhere else.
Avoid sanctioning or over-taxing Chinese products
Make it easier for Chinese people born in Japan to be naturalized, (and possibly also for Chinese tourists to visit Japan).
What China should do :
Stop indoctrinating its people against Japan (i.e. change education system and the way history is taught).
Make it easier for Japanese tourists to visit China (e.g. extending the length of the visa exemption for tourists)
What could be the consequences for Japan if it does not apologise ?
It is certainly not the right decision for Japan to postpone its apologies. China is keeping anti-Japanese resentment high through the education and media. But at the same time the Chinese government keeps control over anti-Japanese demonstrations so that they do not attack Japanese companies or factories in China, because it doesn't want to lose Japanese investment by scaring Japanese corporations away. The PRC government is well aware that they need the tax money imposed on Japanese companies in China, and that Japanese investments help the Chinese economy to grow. But once China will have become strong enough economically and militarily (in anywhere between 10 and 50 years' time), China could nationalise the Japanese companies on its territory, the invade Japan, and finally get its long-awaited revenge on its hereditary enemy, on a country that 60 years after the end of WWII still refuses to apologise properly, and let top politicians honouring war criminals and publicly deny Japanese war crimes.
It seems obvious that China is swallowing its feelings for the time being, because it knows very well it cannot get a satisfying revenge until it grows more powerful the Japan and has a stable economy. It will be too late for the Japanese to apologise. Who wants apologies given under the influence of fear ? That cannot possibly be sincere. So if Japan persists in its denial and refusal to bring the emperor to apologise, and solve all or most of the afore-mentioned problems, China will have good reasons to attack Japan when it will be able to do so. Only the US could possibly stop them from doing that, if they want to go to war with China... but that's the last thing they want!
Another reason for Japan to apologise is to avoid criticism from the international community and comparison to Germany that would make Japan look immature, stubborn and reprehensible. Japan also doesn't want to be compared to China in the way it indoctrinates its people through history textbooks. So far, Japan has been acting very much like the Chinese Communist Party, something that can only deteriorate Japan's political image around the world.
If Japan and China cannot agree on the terms of the apology to be made, and the content of their respective history textbooks, it would be better for them to ask the United Nations to act as a mediator. That is also why the UN is there. It is just sad that two countries that are mature enough to solve their own problem should have a permanent seat in the U.N. Security Council.
regarding diaoyu / senkaku. both countries have valid claims.
the great powers of that time were all aggressors. that included China.
the Chinese and Japanese Communist under Soviet orders lit the fuse of the 2nd Sino-Japanese war by means of sabotage operations against Japan interests in northern China and Manchuria. thereafter Japan was ensnared in a trap that was very carefully laid by the United States, Great Britain and Comintern in order to draw Japan into a war with the United States ( the invasion of South East Asia ). this of course do not excuse Japan from it's war atrocities. but what about those countries and people that induced the war in the first place? it's completely forgotten and ignored.
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Sometimes, it takes a few political statements to cause negative generalizations upon each other. To be honest, the ordinary, non-partisan Chinese has no hatred for the Japanese and the same type of Japanese does not look down on the Chinese. Every race has its good and bad sheeps, don't let a few tarnish the outlook.
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Japan made full reparations to South Korea in its 1965 treaty paying compensation to everyone – the Korean government decided to invest the money in its economy instead. Surely that benefited everyone. these days it just seems like Koreans are money grubbers.
“We want more apology, more apology, AND we want Japan to agree with everything we say. How can Japan apologise about the war and occupation when they complain about Dokdo and the Sea of Japan. Waaa Waaa”.
What has the Sea of Japan and Dokdo got to do with anything else?
According to this Wikipedia article (and from a Korean point of view):- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan
Japan has apologized for the general war including in Korea 14 times.
Japan has apologized to Korea individually for its colonialism and the war 15 times.
Japan has apologized for the comfort woman situation in Asia (includes Korea) 5 times.
Japan has apologized to Korea individually for Korean comfort women 4 times.
These apologies do not include the compensation paid to comfort women under the 1965 treaty, that the South Korean government withheld from individuals and instead invested it in industry. A treaty which exempts Japan from any further payment obligations to South Korea.
It also does not include the setup of the Asian Women’s Fund which included a personal signed apology to individual comfort women from the Japanese Prime Minister at the time (Murayama).
PLEASE JAPAN DO NOT APOLOGISE ANYMORE. THAT IMPERIAL GOVERNMENT DOES NOT EXIST ANY MORE. THE PRESENT CONSTITUTION OF JAPAN WAS WRITTEN BY TWO USA GUYS. UNLESS SOMEONE HAS A PRIVATE APOLOGY THEN PLEASE DO NOT MAKE AN APOLOGY TO KOREA AGAIN. PLEASE, PLEASE.
The more I think about this, the more I think that Korea has no pride at all. I can see why they don’t have any pride, They were vassels to China until Japan defeated China and got China to relinquish Korea’s subservency by the treaty of Shimonoseki. Of course what Korean people dont realize is that Japan did not think about Koreans at all. It was worried about Russia trying to make a pacific ocean port and that Russia was threatening to be Japan’s only local neighbour. (Not taught in Korean schools at all. Korea at this time could not defend itself from anyone – it was just a pawn between China, Russia and Japan.
Everyone in Korea these days thinks their family was one of the upper classes. It was the Japanese aligned Korean cabinet that they have to thank for the Gabo reforms which oblished the class system. Before that 95% of the Korean population were peasents. Hmmm… aparently no-one is descended from the peasent classes anymore – ask anyone.
It is especially funny to see the indignation about the assasination of Queen Min. A newcomer to Korea would think that she was loved during her lifetime. When actually a large number of Koreans would have enjoyed to torture her to death.
It is a source of embarrassment to most Korean people these days that Japan occupied Korea without any resistance. I’m sure many people have heard unsatisfactory excuses as to why this was the case. The excuse given to me most often is “there was no-one to lead the Korean people”. Anyone with more than a basic knowledge of Korean history will know that none of these answers will do. The Korean people often rebelled against their leaders. The class system was only abolished with the Gabo reform of 1896. Around 95% of the population were in the lower classes of peasants (sangmin 75%) and slaves etc.. (Cheonmin – slaves, kisaeng etc..) and outcast “untouchables” (baekjeong). Everyone not surprised by the lack of resistance to Japan will surely be surprised by these rebellions, quite recent to the period (see the wikipedia article on the origins of the Donghak rebellion):-
1. In 1812 Hong Gyeong-nae led the peasants of Gasan in the northern part of Korea into an armed rebellion and occupied the region for several months. An army was sent to quell the rebellion and the revolt was only put down after a savage scorched-earth campaign. All over Korea, all the way to Jeju Island, peasants continued to defy the king in Seoul, the local nobility and wealthy landlords.
2. In 1862 half a century after the peasant rebellion led by Hong Gyeong-nae was put down, a group of farmers in Jinju, Gyeongsang, province rose up against their oppressive provincial officials and the wealthy landowners. This uprising was the result of the exploitation of destitute farmers by the local ruler. The rebels killed local government officials and set fire to government buildings. In order to appease the rebels, the government hastily revised the land, military and grain lending systems. It was an ineffectual attempt at reform, as many yangban in the central government were themselves deeply involved in such corruption. The revolt in Jinju triggered peasant uprisings elsewhere all over Korea; groups of farmers rose up with arms and attacked government offices in principal towns. Many government officials were executed. The uprisings were generally crushed by government troops. In 1862 the peasants of San-nam and surrounding villages took up arms against the elite, but were brutally butchered by troops. In subsequent years, peasants rose up in small groups all across Korea until 1892.
3. The Donghak Peasant Revolution, or the 1894 Peasant War (see the main wikipedia article).
I would suggest that the Korean peasants had had enough of their yangban rulers and with the defeat of the Chinese by Japan, the Gabo reforms introduced by the pro-Japanese cabinet removing slavery and the class system, the peasants finally saw some prospect of hope in their lives.
At least the Japanese introduced schools to Korea. (Yes, there were schools before, expensive schools for the rich to take the civilservice exams and some christian missionary schools – but the modern school system in korean for all Children was introduced by Japn).
(As a side note, ever heard that Korean people were forced to change their names to the Japanese style? Well changing the style was so popular at the beginning of Japanese rule that in 1911 a proclamation, “Matter Concerning the Changing of Korean Names” (朝鮮人ノ姓名改称ニ 関スル件) was issued barring ethnic Koreans from taking Japanese names and to retroactively revert the names of Koreans that had already registered under Japanese names back to the original Korean ones.) NASTY JAPANESE .
“We want more apology, more apology, AND we want Japan to agree with everything we say. How can Japan apologise about the war and occupation when they complain about Dokdo and the Sea of Japan. Waaa Waaa”.
What has the Sea of Japan and Dokdo got to do with anything else?
According to this Wikipedia article (and from a Korean point of view):- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan
Japan has apologized for the general war including in Korea 14 times.
Japan has apologized to Korea individually for its colonialism and the war 15 times.
Japan has apologized for the comfort woman situation in Asia (includes Korea) 5 times.
Japan has apologized to Korea individually for Korean comfort women 4 times.
These apologies do not include the compensation paid to comfort women under the 1965 treaty, that the South Korean government withheld from individuals and instead invested it in industry. A treaty which exempts Japan from any further payment obligations to South Korea.
It also does not include the setup of the Asian Women’s Fund which included a personal signed apology to individual comfort women from the Japanese Prime Minister at the time (Murayama).
PLEASE JAPAN DO NOT APOLOGISE ANYMORE. THAT IMPERIAL GOVERNMENT DOES NOT EXIST ANY MORE. THE PRESENT CONSTITUTION OF JAPAN WAS WRITTEN BY TWO USA GUYS. UNLESS SOMEONE HAS A PRIVATE APOLOGY THEN PLEASE DO NOT MAKE AN APOLOGY TO KOREA AGAIN. PLEASE, PLEASE.
The more I think about this, the more I think that Korea has no pride at all. I can see why they don’t have any pride, They were vassels to China until Japan defeated China and got China to relinquish Korea’s subservency by the treaty of Shimonoseki. Of course what Korean people dont realize is that Japan did not think about Koreans at all. It was worried about Russia trying to make a pacific ocean port and that Russia was threatening to be Japan’s only local neighbour. (Not taught in Korean schools at all. Korea at this time could not defend itself from anyone – it was just a pawn between China, Russia and Japan.
Everyone in Korea these days thinks their family was one of the upper classes. It was the Japanese aligned Korean cabinet that they have to thank for the Gabo reforms which oblished the class system. Before that 95% of the Korean population were peasents. Hmmm… aparently no-one is descended from the peasent classes anymore – ask anyone.
It is especially funny to see the indignation about the assasination of Queen Min. A newcomer to Korea would think that she was loved during her lifetime. When actually a large number of Koreans would have enjoyed to torture her to death.
It is a source of embarrassment to most Korean people these days that Japan occupied Korea without any resistance. I’m sure many people have heard unsatisfactory excuses as to why this was the case. The excuse given to me most often is “there was no-one to lead the Korean people”. Anyone with more than a basic knowledge of Korean history will know that none of these answers will do. The Korean people often rebelled against their leaders. The class system was only abolished with the Gabo reform of 1896. Around 95% of the population were in the lower classes of peasants (sangmin 75%) and slaves etc.. (Cheonmin – slaves, kisaeng etc..) and outcast “untouchables” (baekjeong). Everyone not surprised by the lack of resistance to Japan will surely be surprised by these rebellions, quite recent to the period (see the wikipedia article on the origins of the Donghak rebellion):-
1. In 1812 Hong Gyeong-nae led the peasants of Gasan in the northern part of Korea into an armed rebellion and occupied the region for several months. An army was sent to quell the rebellion and the revolt was only put down after a savage scorched-earth campaign. All over Korea, all the way to Jeju Island, peasants continued to defy the king in Seoul, the local nobility and wealthy landlords.
2. In 1862 half a century after the peasant rebellion led by Hong Gyeong-nae was put down, a group of farmers in Jinju, Gyeongsang, province rose up against their oppressive provincial officials and the wealthy landowners. This uprising was the result of the exploitation of destitute farmers by the local ruler. The rebels killed local government officials and set fire to government buildings. In order to appease the rebels, the government hastily revised the land, military and grain lending systems. It was an ineffectual attempt at reform, as many yangban in the central government were themselves deeply involved in such corruption. The revolt in Jinju triggered peasant uprisings elsewhere all over Korea; groups of farmers rose up with arms and attacked government offices in principal towns. Many government officials were executed. The uprisings were generally crushed by government troops. In 1862 the peasants of San-nam and surrounding villages took up arms against the elite, but were brutally butchered by troops. In subsequent years, peasants rose up in small groups all across Korea until 1892.
3. The Donghak Peasant Revolution, or the 1894 Peasant War (see the main wikipedia article).
I would suggest that the Korean peasants had had enough of their yangban rulers and with the defeat of the Chinese by Japan, the Gabo reforms introduced by the pro-Japanese cabinet removing slavery and the class system, the peasants finally saw some prospect of hope in their lives.
At least the Japanese introduced schools to Korea. (Yes, there were schools before, expensive schools for the rich to take the civilservice exams and some christian missionary schools – but the modern school system in korean for all Children was introduced by Japn).
(As a side note, ever heard that Korean people were forced to change their names to the Japanese style? Well changing the style was so popular at the beginning of Japanese rule that in 1911 a proclamation, “Matter Concerning the Changing of Korean Names” (朝鮮人ノ姓名改称ニ 関スル件) was issued barring ethnic Koreans from taking Japanese names and to retroactively revert the names of Koreans that had already registered under Japanese names back to the original Korean ones.) NASTY JAPANESE .
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Well said thanks for standing on netrual ground .
Those few black sheep as you put it are in positions of power. They can mobilize the country to war unless their people get rid of those few black sheep.
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Nobody is blaming ordinary Japanese, only politicians who insist on altering history and playing political games. But you seem to be blaming Ah Tiongs regardless.
Both Taiwan and PRC claim the territory as China's but which China? They are not debating that at the moment as it is affair between only the two of them and linked together with their resolution of the entire Taiwan issue (I don't think they are in any particular hurry to resolve that) but both agree it is not Japan to keep.
This concluson, incidentally, was carried out by Japanese researchers. It does not matter what happens before Korea. Anyway it is irrelevant to the discussion here. What is important is that it breaks the myth that theirs is a superior race, not Asian, with the right to conquer its neighbours.
As long as Japanese politicians keep to this mentality, they are dangerous for countries around them and will always be regarded with suspicion. The good time for Japan is coming to an end, as a technology leader in Asia and the sooner that people realize that and vote in the right leaders, the better it is for their society.
Japan never admit their war atrocities in Asia by altering history books to misrepresent the extent of such crimes. By propagating control of lands conquered in relatively recent times, shows that they do not think they were wrong to take other's territories.
As I explained above, Japan did not admit its crimes by their actions in changing the record of history and in holding on to land they conquered during the warring period and such actions speak volumes. How Ah Tiongs viewed Mao is entirely their own internal and personal matter. Why should we worry ourselves with that? Anyway I am doubtful that that is even a prevalent feeling in China.
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Agree with you on this as I think the ordinary people are innocent but their leaders are the trouble-makers.
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