China air force woos allies with J-10 fighter jet

[Papsmearer]

mainly because of the beyond vision radar and missile. But all these were merely in stimulation.

No, its because of the low radar signature. The F-22 and F-35s would flame all the F-15s from BVR, with BVR missiles before the legacy fighters even see them on their radar. The F-22 pilot was saying it not a fair fight. this is what will happen to this J-10 piece of shit. The ROCAF is not going to have a problem with this plane either. They will use their AWACS planes to position their F-16 and Mirage 2000 for BVR shots into the PLAAF formations. Game over.

 

[longbow]

I agree with you totally that high speed train is different tech but I AM NOT saying that the 2 technologies are related. There are only a few countries in the world that can build a jet engine.

My point again is that in this age, there is no real secret in building a jet engine. Few countries are able to do that because their economies are too small, it cost a lot of $$$ to develop your own jet engine and go through the approvals and whether it makes economic sense.

I think for China it makes sense and they have all the ingredients to make a good jet fighter. Of course they need time to fine tune the plane but fast forward 10 years and you will probably see a pretty decent J10 powered by its own engine.

Many keep thinking - ah China cheap plastic toys, clothing, low tech. But the true is that there is nothing to prevent them from producing high tech products.

Yes they have a long learning curve but that is why they do reverse engineering. Why relearn the wheel? Look at how the competitors do it, learn from it and then improve on it. Who would imagine China exporting high speed trains?? Next thing we will heard is a Chinese version of maglev, since they got the design from the germans and have the only running system in the world. Lots of time to learn the issues with running such a system and improving on it.

Please lah, high speed rail engine technology has got nothing to do with modern jet engines. That technology is so different in terms of sophistication. Its like saying the best maker of scooter engines inthe world can build engines for Ferrari all of a sudden. Your comparison is ludicrous. Just because the chinese can build high speed railways does not mean it will translate to jet engines. Bombardier is still the standard for rail.

 

[longbow]

i remember seeing a youtube clip about F22 and F35, one of the engineer confidently said that US is ahead of the others at least by 40 years

That is true but how many countries can afford the F22 and F35 even pentagon is cutting back on orders. And of the countries that can afford these planes, how many are friendly with the US??

There is a huge market out there for countries that may not want to tow the US line. These countries will make a good market for the J10. How many 3rd world countries can buy a used F16 even if they have the $$$. Can Burma get one? How about Vietnam or cambodia or the central asian nations. How many countries in the continent of africa are allowed to buy used F16. So you see, market is huge for such fighters.

As for spare parts, I do not think that is going to be an issue and the PLA themselves will be ordering hundreds of J10 in the years to come. We are not talking about Russia with a weak economy that is reliant upon oil.

So I think once they Chinese get their jet engine up to speed they will have one competitive fighter. No one is talking about a war with the US lah. Just nice for the countless skirmishes along their borders - not to mention they look good for their tin pot generals.

And you know what? No one has tried flying one of these. Maybe a piece of junk but it could also be a pretty competent fighter.

In short Chinese have the political will, the $$$ (so what if a $30B project cost $60B because of corruption), the technical know how (last I saw there was no shortage of brilliant Chinese engineers) so there is nothing to stop them really. Maybe they need sometime to catch up that is all.

Perhaps I am a little older than you but I remember the days when japanese electronics were crappy and everyone bought GEC (british made electronics). when japanese cars were low quality and "made of tin cans". So things change and best not to underestimate capabilities.

They are talking about US$90M for 1 F35.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/business/12plane.html

 

[vamjok]

but i must say one thing.....china has indeed catch up very fast...

what US has achieved in few generation they did it in 1. Although still lacking behind but...the speed at which they are catching up is scary. just look at J-10...they did this in 1 generation....

 

[longbow]

My point is precisely that - chinese are moving very fast. If we keep on linking China = cheap products, lousy quality then we will wake up one day and find them ahead of us. with the internet and instant communications, the Chinese can move fast. And the thing is they have $$$, central gov control and lots of brains. Also remember that while there is corruption in China, that is more than made up by the lower cost of things in China.

Would you expect the Chinese to have such a modern rail system? It really makes sense for them since they are a large and populous country (cannot imagine everyone flying). But I am very surprised. india is still moving about with british era railways. we have all seen them packed to the roof with people.

History is full of cases studies on why certain technologies fail. There are probably reams of info on capabilities of Gen 1 F16. What are the problems, limitations (there must be thousands of pilots that have flown F16s and can attest to the limitations of the f16) and what they want to see in new aircraft. So the Chinese can learn from what not to do and so on. Making a jet fighter or jet engine is not some holy grail type technology. Just have to keep at it.

Even this whole notion of preventing Iran from have a nuclear weapon is stupid. This is 50 year old technology and current computers (a PC is probably more powerful than computers they used then) and industrial tools (CNC machines, water jet cutting, computer controlled) can easily fabricate the centrifuges. There is also no lack of knowhow.

Again if you throw in $$$, political will and a bunch of smart people they can easily build the bomb. However we should use Iran (a large educated and relatively wealthy nation) as an example to dissuade the smaller and more unstable countries from even thinking about it. "Wow if they gave Iran so much trouble why even go through the trouble)

Bill Gates said if you have a 1 in a million chance, in China you find 1400 of them!

J10 is their first attempt but heck just imagine the lessons they are learning (I assume that Chinese engineers are not stupid) and all that will be implemented in the Gen 2 J10 and so on.

US defence budget is $500B a year. Remember that each US serviceman is paid $30K a year after factoring in benefits. Each Chinese PLA soldier is probably paid $3K a year. I think if you see PLA budget at $250B you can be assured that they have same bang for buck as US spending $500B.

Then you have the US wars which is impacting readiness.

but i must say one thing.....china has indeed catch up very fast...

what US has achieved in few generation they did it in 1. Although still lacking behind but...the speed at which they are catching up is scary. just look at J-10...they did this in 1 generation....

 

[streetcry]

New Chinese Fighter J-10 （official video）
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[streetcry]

New Chinese Fighter JF-17

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[zujjkiol]

Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy (中国人民解放军海军)

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[streetcry]

The mysterious and much anticipated Chinese J-19 Fighter




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2011-3-22 11:53


Despite the imminent arrival of its first two aircraft carriers, Chinese naval aviation will, for the rest of the decade, concentrate on land based bombers (armed with better anti-ship missiles) and patrol aircraft. The principal bomber is the JH-7A, which is a 28 ton, twin engine aircraft, with a 12.9 meter/40 foot wingspan.


The navy has about a hundred of these. While underpowered, it can carry nine ton of bombs, missiles or additional fuel. Now, by using new Chinese made smart bombs and air-to-ground missiles, the JH-7 becomes more useful. The aircraft has an operational radius of about 900 kilometers, enabling it to contribute to an attack on Taiwan, or a blockade of the island's ports. The JH7A could carry four YJ-82 anti-ship missiles. Each of these weighs 715 kg (1573 pounds) with a 165 kg (360 pound) warhead. Range is about 120 kilometers, and the missile uses a radar to find and hit its target. China wants to build another 150 JH-7As, with more powerful engines and better electronics, and is apparently doing that now that it has developed the engines it needs.


j-2.jpg (29.68 KB)
2011-3-22 11:53


In the meantime, the carriers are getting land based aircraft modified (tail hook, stronger landing gear) for their use until custom built carrier aircraft arrive. A carrier fighter-bomber, sometimes referred to as the J-19, is still being designed.


Currently, China has two aircraft carriers (Shi Lang and "Carrier F") under construction, with one going to sea by next year. Apparently, the main Chinese carrier fighter is a navalized version of the J-11 (an illegal clone of the Russian Su-27). China got one of the Russian navalized Su-27s (the Su-33) from Ukraine, and are stealing more technology to navalize their 30 ton J-11 as the J-11BH (formerly the J-15). These will not be ready before the Shi Lang puts to sea. Instead, it appears that navalized jet trainers will be used .


China already has naval helicopters for their carriers. These include the Russian Ka-28 (submarine search) and Ka-31 (radar early warning) and Mi-8 (transports). China is still having problems designing and building naval helicopters that can match or surpass Russian models. So Russian choppers will continue in service for at least another decade.


-3.jpg (25.96 KB)
2011-3-22 11:53


The Shi Lang has a maximum capacity of 50 jets and 18 helicopters, but it appears that China will not be using that many on their carriers initially. The Russians never maxed out the air wing on these ships either. Moreover, the most common use of Chinese carriers in the first few years will be training and, on occasion, "showing the flag" (visiting foreign ports to, well, show off.) Both training and show-off missions, will probably involve a carrier air wing of eight jets and 9-10 helicopters (six ASW/Anti-Submarine Warfare, three AEW/radar early warning and one SAR/search and rescue.) Once the J-11BH is ready, there will be several years of training pilots and carrier deck crews to handle this larger aircraft. So it won't be until the 2020s before China is ready to send a carrier to sea with a militarily significant air wing. This will include J-11BH fighters J-10AH light bombers, as well as AEW, ASW and SAR helicopters.


Three years ago, China announced that its first class of carrier aviators had begun training at the Dalian Naval Academy. The naval officers are undergoing a four year course of instruction to turn them into fighter pilots capable of operating off a carrier. China already has an airfield, in the shape of a carrier deck, built at an inland facility. The Russians have warned China that it may take them a decade or more to develop the knowledge and skills needed to efficiently run an aircraft carrier. The Chinese are game, and are slogging forward.