Chitchat Chee and SDP this week and the train wreck it has created.

[currypuff]

Meng Seng,
What is the sample size? If you flip any one of the chart east west, they more or less match up.

21% PAP very positive vs 20% SDP quite negative
7% PAP quite negative vs 8% SDP very positive

 

[blueRad]

Chee just keep shooting himself in the foot one event after another. He should just leave politics for good and leave it in the hands of Paul Tambyah.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Total sample size is 302.

If you can see these simple correlations, you should be able to get more interesting insights.

Goh Meng Seng

Meng Seng,
What is the sample size? If you flip any one of the chart east west, they more or less match up.

21% PAP very positive vs 20% SDP quite negative
7% PAP quite negative vs 8% SDP very positive

 

[Leepotism]

I think Chee needs some alternative voices in favour of him too:

Sharon Ann Gabriel:
May 21, 2016 at 7:56 pm (Quote)
Dr Chee did not conduct the survey. Blackbox Research did. If 90% of the respondents are from the pro-PAP camp, the statistics will show that Murali is more Chinese than Dr Chee. Conversely speaking, if 90% of the respondents are from the pro-SDP camp, the statistics will show that Dr Chee is more Indian than Murali. Statistics cannot be trusted especially if it concerns the PAP. Only gullible fools accept pro-PAP statistics which are disseminated as brainwashing propaganda.

 

[Leepotism]

thebastardPAPparty:
May 21, 2016 at 7:09 pm (Quote)
Dr chee may not be clean on his analysis
BUT THE PAP statistic is neither clear, nor detail nor informative
the hide other statistic
they do not breakup those statistic to local, new local and foreigner
the PAP lump and hide statistic onto other statistic
if Dr chee has manipulated on his analysis
SO ARE THE PAP
both party are playing the crying wolf game

 

[Leepotism]

Dr Chee is unelectable:
May 21, 2016 at 8:15 pm (Quote)
Bottomline is this : Whatever statistics or words that Chee spouts is useless. Even if JB Jeyaratnam were to return from the dead or Low Thia Kiang leave his Aljunied seat to contest in Bukit Batok, they will all lose.
No opposition party candidate will win in Bukit Batok simply because the Singaporeans there prefer the lightning brand for their estate management. The sign for this already appeared in the 2015 election.

 

[scroobal]

Bro, if you look at the online world, the vast majority of comments are complimentary and supportive of Chee and the SDP. My guess is more than 80%. Most people in the run-up to the elections are looking for an independent voice. After the results, the dominant voice in the online world continues to be supportive of Chee. I suspect that this had misled Chee and SDP. Singaporeans tend to be reticent and politically correct. Even in this forum, only a tiny majority are prepared and dare to point out the SDP and Chee issues. People like to remain popular in any forum especially if they are facing uphill task in terms of numbers. If we want to get a better opposition, the only way is to point the mistakes and not hide it.

Look at the comment below by a supporter. Its absolute rubbish. Nobody said that Chee conducted the survey. Where did she pluck that from? Secondly, both Chee and SDP had to retract and amend what they wrote on their website and Facebook when the claims they made was so glaringly wrong and picked up by others. Her content is also rubbish in its totality. And she calls others gullible. It does remind me of Kong Hee and gullible church followers who sold their HDB flats to sponsor his lifestyle.

Chee needs to attract the smart supporters. He has one big advantage - nearly everyone knows that PAP cannot be left to their own devices.

I think Chee needs some alternative voices in favour of him too:

Sharon Ann Gabriel:
May 21, 2016 at 7:56 pm (Quote)
Dr Chee did not conduct the survey. Blackbox Research did. If 90% of the respondents are from the pro-PAP camp, the statistics will show that Murali is more Chinese than Dr Chee. Conversely speaking, if 90% of the respondents are from the pro-SDP camp, the statistics will show that Dr Chee is more Indian than Murali. Statistics cannot be trusted especially if it concerns the PAP. Only gullible fools accept pro-PAP statistics which are disseminated as brainwashing propaganda.

 

[scroobal]

Good post bro.

I think there is room for a second strong and credible opposition besides WP. WP has done very well despite the setback in 2015. They have brought on board really credible and truly quality individuals. Leon, Pritam, Daniel, Ting Ru, Dennis etc are impressive. Look at the conduct in their interactions with the press, in Parliament and the online space. Look at their academic qualifications and achievements. Low because of battle scars has to be cautious and this sometimes puts off good quality candidates and some prefer to be more vocal and critical. There is another issue with WP that need to be addressed and that is Malay and Indian participation. Too thin and not helpful. They should not wait for people to approach them. The new ones should be tasked to bring in quality minorities.

People have given up on the old world rabble rousers and some of the existing parties have a baggage that is not helpful. Lim Thean from NSP is very impressive and unfortunately he got caught out by Sebastian's past. It will be good if he, Jeanette and couple of others start to seed and form a second party. Little bit more liberal and more vocal. There is space.

It's the only party that can challenge the PAP. I think all opp should just go in and strengthen WP instead of going their own way. Of course PAP loves this ...divide and conquer strategy working!

 

[myfoot123]

Good post bro.

It will be good if he, Jeanette and couple of others start to seed and form a second party. Little bit more liberal and more vocal. There is space.

No lah. Too many Kajian Puteh parties will cause voters' confusion. A further insult to the zero intelligence of our voters. The most established small party like SDA already lost several election deposits. Reform Party did not gain further traction with the name JB tagged to it. DPP (under Benjamin) failed even with Chaim's dying party (SPP) support. NSP is going downhill with internal war. Nobody has ever heard of Goh Meng Seng newly formed party and my friend was clueless of those guys wearing purple in the last election. Same for Tan Jee Say's new party which I hardly recall its name too.

Singapore is best not having too many opposition parties. To extinguish larger fire, we do not have time for small spoonful of water. We need a reservoir which I believed, only WP and SDP have the resources to battle the inferno from PAP.

Starting a new party takes time to ingrain into the voter's mind. Minimium time-frame of decades for it to be recognised by the people. Even then, it may still be torn apart due to power chase. Than that strayed opposition members will try to sabo and dilute another opposition parties, using msm's as tool to his agenda. Goh meng Seng is one of those very critical of other opposition partes we have known, very much to msm and PAP's delight. It was akin to the revenge thinking if himself cannot get into parliament, nobody should.:oIo: The whole opposition political became a scenario to attack other oppostion parties, split from larger party, formed smaller party and the vicious cycle continue....leaving such bad legacy to the advantage of PAP. I have nothing more to say.

The last BE was the most ideal opportunity and critical period for voters to establish a "3-kingdoms" in parliament, but Bukit Batok voters have chosen to fail. :( Singaporeans are borned to doom.

 

[yahoo55]

No lah. Too many Kajian Puteh parties will cause voters' confusion. A further insult to the zero intelligence of our voters. The most established small party like SDA already lost several election deposits. Reform Party did not gain further traction with the name JB tagged to it. DPP (under Benjamin) failed even with Chaim's dying party (SPP) support. NSP is going downhill with internal war. Nobody has ever heard of Goh Meng Seng newly formed party and my friend was clueless of those guys wearing purple in the last election. Same for Tan Jee Say's new party which I hardly recall its name too.

Singapore is best not having too many opposition parties. To extinguish larger fire, we do not have time for small spoonful of water. We need a reservoir which I believed, only WP and SDP have the resources to battle the inferno from PAP.

Starting a new party takes time to ingrain into the voter's mind. Minimium time-frame of decades for it to be recognised by the people. Even then, it may still be torn apart due to power chase. Than that strayed opposition members will try to sabo and dilute another opposition parties, using msm's as tool to his agenda. Goh meng Seng is one of those very critical of other opposition partes we have known, very much to msm and PAP's delight. It was akin to the revenge thinking if himself cannot get into parliament, nobody should.:oIo: The whole opposition political became a scenario to attack other oppostion parties, split from larger party, formed smaller party and the vicious cycle continue....leaving such bad legacy to the advantage of PAP. I have nothing more to say.

Goh Meng Seng only had 23.11% of the vote and did worse than every SDP candidate in GE2015 including the newbie candidates, yet he got the cheek to criticize other people for being unelectable. How shameless can Goh Meng Seng get? He should learn to look at the mirror to see who is unelectable.

I think Goh Meng Seng is jealous, that's why he wants to sabo and pull down other opposition parties. Very fortunate for WP that he left or he would have pull down the party with his nonsense.

Agree that there's too many small opposition parties and there needs to be consolidation to make opposition parties bigger with more resources and be more competitive. The small opposition parties like SDA and PPP are a hindrance to the bigger opposition parties like WP and SDP.

 

[blueRad]

Bro, if you look at the online world, the vast majority of comments are complimentary and supportive of Chee and the SDP. My guess is more than 80%. Most people in the run-up to the elections are looking for an independent voice. After the results, the dominant voice in the online world continues to be supportive of Chee. I suspect that this had misled Chee and SDP. Singaporeans tend to be reticent and politically correct. Even in this forum, only a tiny majority are prepared and dare to point out the SDP and Chee issues. People like to remain popular in any forum especially if they are facing uphill task in terms of numbers. If we want to get a better opposition, the only way is to point the mistakes and not hide it.

Look at the comment below by a supporter. Its absolute rubbish. Nobody said that Chee conducted the survey. Where did she pluck that from? Secondly, both Chee and SDP had to retract and amend what they wrote on their website and Facebook when the claims they made was so glaringly wrong and picked up by others. Her content is also rubbish in its totality. And she calls others gullible. It does remind me of Kong Hee and gullible church followers who sold their HDB flats to sponsor his lifestyle.

Chee needs to attract the smart supporters. He has one big advantage - nearly everyone knows that PAP cannot be left to their own devices.

I would beg to differ when it comes to the online world. Just look at FB comments on MSM Fb pages like CNA. Tons of pro PAP comments bashing Chee and always bringing up his past flaws. There is always the silent majority who don't comment on politics on the internet to consider and opposition voices have always dominated the online world anyway.

 

[scroobal]

Not calling for more opposition parties. Calling for the formation of a second credible opposition parties. There are good individuals such as Lim Thean, Ben Pwee, Jeanette etc around and they can seed a new party. It will draw potential candidates as well. We also need a second credible opposition party to cover the areas such as the West and start laying the foundation.

You can't stop proliferation of opposition parties and characters like Tan Jee Say, Desmond Lim and KJ etc and part of parcel of democracy.

No lah. Too many Kajian Puteh parties will cause voters' confusion. A further insult to the zero intelligence of our voters. The most established small party like SDA already lost several election deposits. Reform Party did not gain further traction with the name JB tagged to it. DPP (under Benjamin) failed even with Chaim's dying party (SPP) support. NSP is going downhill with internal war. Nobody has ever heard of Goh Meng Seng newly formed party and my friend was clueless of those guys wearing purple in the last election. Same for Tan Jee Say's new party which I hardly recall its name too.

Singapore is best not having too many opposition parties. To extinguish larger fire, we do not have time for small spoonful of water. We need a reservoir which I believed, only WP and SDP have the resources to battle the inferno from PAP.

Starting a new party takes time to ingrain into the voter's mind. Minimium time-frame of decades for it to be recognised by the people. Even then, it may still be torn apart due to power chase. Than that strayed opposition members will try to sabo and dilute another opposition parties, using msm's as tool to his agenda. Goh meng Seng is one of those very critical of other opposition partes we have known, very much to msm and PAP's delight. It was akin to the revenge thinking if himself cannot get into parliament, nobody should.:oIo: The whole opposition political became a scenario to attack other oppostion parties, split from larger party, formed smaller party and the vicious cycle continue....leaving such bad legacy to the advantage of PAP. I have nothing more to say.

The last BE was the most ideal opportunity and critical period for voters to establish a "3-kingdoms" in parliament, but Bukit Batok voters have chosen to fail. :( Singaporeans are borned to doom.

 

[scroobal]

Thats the point I am making. The silent majority who are reticent and those who want to be politically correct who don't comment critically.

There is always the silent majority who don't comment on politics on the internet to consider and opposition voices have always dominated the online world anyway.

 

[myfoot123]

You can't stop proliferation of opposition parties and characters like Tan Jee Say, Desmond Lim and KJ etc and part of parcel of democracy.

You believe there is true democracy? Look at how the arrows, from all directions and even from opposition camp, start shooting at Dr Chee. There is no fair play in every election. PAP is like a coke, you pour 70% plain water into it and people will still drink it as premium. Oppositon needs strong branding which smaller parties do not have or do not have the resources to do so.. Other than WP and SDP, how often do we see other opposition parties appears anywhere online or offline, sell books, granted interview and seen walking the ground? You can have tonnes of high calibre oppositions come together to form an alien party, but nobody buy it. No brand, no nothing. It takes time, but time is precious as we see Singapore heading towards its doom days under the daily perpetration of PAP. Already the PAP machine is moving, 5th airport terminal on its way, thousands of jobs relocated to india, school chiildrens are bowing to only one hero among others, billions given to PA to strengthen PAP, new laws protect PAP from being sued by public, nobody knows how PM & Wife co Ltd spend our CPF/Tax monies thru Temasek and GIC, bookstores are overstocked with PAP books. Singaporeans intelligences are diluted with each passing days. Fears inside them ever increasing for losing money, jobs and housing and most terribly is their fear of PAP due to insecurity caused to every aspsect of their lives.

What can opposition do about it, even after the election is over? Where are these smaller parties? Where is Goh Meng Seng's parties? All disperse, waiting easy for the next election to come?

 

[scroobal]

What I am saying is that if you want democracy, you must allow anyone to form a political party. There are hundreds in many western countries but 90% are either single issue parties or very localised.

I remember when Chiam ran for office for the 3rd time, even when JBJ broke the monopoly, Singaporeans were dismissive of opposition gaining ground. They persevered. Only when Chaim hit the mother lode in 1991, we believed that there was hope.

And WP proved it by regaining Hougang after Yaw and then went on topple a GRC. It take good people and I see good people coming on stream. Though 2015 GE was not good, I was comforted by the people like He Ting Ru. Who would have thought that a female, cambridge educated corporate lawyer of such a young age was prepared to stand for elections as a member of the opposition camp. Were we not surprised when Lim Thean spoke for the very first time.

Despite the 2015 results, the PAP is still not in a good place. They are not admired or even respected by the majority of citizens. They had to lower whatever ethics left in them and misappropriate state funds and resources in the form of People Association to advance their party interest and retain their seats. I expect to see more educated and successful people like eDaniel Goh and Leon Pereira who could easily have gone to PAP to further their fortunes but chose to fight for the right and the interest of people. Compared to even Tharman, people like Sylvia Lim has the right to claim the high moral ground and for obvious reason.

You believe there is true democracy? Look at how the arrows, from all directions and even from opposition camp, start shooting at Dr Chee. There is no fair play in every election. PAP is like a coke, you pour 70% plain water into it and people will still drink it as premium. Oppositon needs strong branding which smaller parties do not have or do not have the resources to do so.. Other than WP and SDP, how often do we see other opposition parties appears anywhere online or offline, sell books, granted interview and seen walking the ground? You can have tonnes of high calibre oppositions come together to form an alien party, but nobody buy it. No brand, no nothing. It takes time, but time is precious as we see Singapore heading towards its doom days under the daily perpetration of PAP. Already the machine is machine, 5th airport on its way, thousands of jobs relocated to india, school chiildrens are bowing to only one hero among others, bookstores are overstocked with PAP books. Singaporeans intelligences are diluted by each passing days, fears in them ever increasing for losing money, jobs and housing and most terribly is their fear of PAP.

What can opposition do about it, even after the election is over? Where are these smaller parties?

 

[enterprise2]

What I am saying is that if you want democracy, you must allow anyone to form a political party. There are hundreds in many western countries but 90% are either single issue parties or very localised.

I remember when Chiam ran for office for the 3rd time, even when JBJ broke the monopoly, Singaporeans were dismissive of opposition gaining ground. They persevered. Only when Chaim hit the mother lode in 1991, we believed that there was hope.

And WP proved it by regaining Hougang after Yaw and then went on topple a GRC. It take good people and I see good people coming on stream. Though 2015 GE was not good, I was comforted by the people like He Ting Ru. Who would have thought that a female, cambridge educated corporate lawyer of such a young age was prepared to stand for elections as a member of the opposition camp. Were we not surprised when Lim Thean spoke for the very first time.

Despite the 2015 results, the PAP is still not in a good place. They are not admired or even respected by the majority of citizens. They had to lower whatever ethics left in them and misappropriate state funds and resources in the form of People Association to advance their party interest and retain their seats. I expect to see more educated and successful people like eDaniel Goh and Leon Pereira who could easily have gone to PAP to further their fortunes but chose to fight for the right and the interest of people. Compared to even Tharman, people like Sylvia Lim has the right to claim the high moral ground and for obvious reason.

Yes anyone has the right to form a political party but at the moment there's just too many! Put it in footballing terms, we got the current champs - a Barcelona or Bayern and a very weak challenger and then followed by a host of smaller teams who never won anything. The champion gets the best players, finances.. Etc. And when it comes to a 1 on 1, only the challenger stands a ghost of a chance. In this situation, the only viable strategy is to take your best players and beef up the challenger so that it stand a better chance. The crowd also don't want to support crap team so if the challenger team can be strengthen, the support will come. Make sense?

 

[scroobal]

The weaker and incompetent ones will fall to one side. No need to bother if there are 2 many parties. Reform Party and SDA have paid the price. People don't bother with them and they don't exactly interfere with the elections in any material way. The consolation is that they provide comic relief.

A unified opposition is a pipe dream. Having at least 2 credible opposition would be the way to go. It helps accommodate personalities, style and their shade of ideology. SDP led the way in the early 90s, WP reorganised themselves and now SDP is a shell of its former self. It will be good if the better opposition players not in WP form that second party that we need.

I think we all along the same lines in the main.

Yes anyone has the right to form a political party but at the moment there's just too many! Put it in footballing terms, we got the current champs - a Barcelona or Bayern and a very weak challenger and then followed by a host of smaller teams who never won anything. The champion gets the best players, finances.. Etc. And when it comes to a 1 on 1, only the challenger stands a ghost of a chance. In this situation, the only viable strategy is to take your best players and beef up the challenger so that it stand a better chance. The crowd also don't want to support crap team so if the challenger team can be strengthen, the support will come. Make sense?

 

[po2wq]

Yes anyone has the right to form a political party but at the moment there's just too many! Put it in footballing terms, we got the current champs - a Barcelona or Bayern and a very weak challenger and then followed by a host of smaller teams who never won anything. The champion gets the best players, finances.. Etc. And when it comes to a 1 on 1, only the challenger stands a ghost of a chance. In this situation, the only viable strategy is to take your best players and beef up the challenger so that it stand a better chance. The crowd also don't want to support crap team so if the challenger team can be strengthen, the support will come. Make sense?

no make cents! ...

in futbol, u nid many, many tims ... otherwise, u no haf leak ...

n evrybody luvs ze underdogs ... dey wan 2 c ze underdogs nock ze rich n powderful tims off ze f**king perch ... n any underdog wil do ...

 

[3_M]

Good post bro.

I think there is room for a second strong and credible opposition besides WP. WP has done very well despite the setback in 2015. They have brought on board really credible and truly quality individuals. Leon, Pritam, Daniel, Ting Ru, Dennis etc are impressive. Look at the conduct in their interactions with the press, in Parliament and the online space. Look at their academic qualifications and achievements. Low because of battle scars has to be cautious and this sometimes puts off good quality candidates and some prefer to be more vocal and critical. There is another issue with WP that need to be addressed and that is Malay and Indian participation. Too thin and not helpful. They should not wait for people to approach them. The new ones should be tasked to bring in quality minorities.

People have given up on the old world rabble rousers and some of the existing parties have a baggage that is not helpful. Lim Thean from NSP is very impressive and unfortunately he got caught out by Sebastian's past. It will be good if he, Jeanette and couple of others start to seed and form a second party. Little bit more liberal and more vocal. There is space.

The living space for a second opposition depends primary on whether they can establish themselves regionally. By far I don't see any party capable of surviving a 3cf onslaught involving WP. For as long as this is the case, there is no condition for a second credible opposition to exist regardless what ideology they stand for.

I do think despite the setback of ge15 (which macro factors played a big role) WP is the only party that will most likely gain more ground in the long run and will slowly expand their presence to the west. By then if non WP opposition still doesn't prove they are capable of winning anything, I am quit sure opposition voters won't give 2 hoots about ideology but will vote tactically for the opposition with the best chance.

 

[scroobal]

I would disagree. When SDP was running strong in 1991, WP once thought demise began to rise again with Low's election to Hougang. It slowly built itself. If we expected to rely on SDP to carry that load 20 years ago, we would not have the opposition gains that we have now with WP that came as a second credible party and now the leader. I am sure Low and even people like Sylvia would welcome a second front against the PAP. WP is not even near a position to claim that it can sincerely cover half of Singapore credibly.

3CFs are part of the game. I would not rule out a mature level of negotiation if it involves a second credible opposition party.

The living space for a second opposition depends primary on whether they can establish themselves regionally. By far I don't see any party capable of surviving a 3cf onslaught involving WP. For as long as this is the case, there is no condition for a second credible opposition to exist regardless what ideology they stand for.

I do think despite the setback of ge15 (which macro factors played a big role) WP is the only party that will most likely gain more ground in the long run and will slowly expand their presence to the west. By then if non WP opposition still doesn't prove they are capable of winning anything, I am quit sure opposition voters won't give 2 hoots about ideology but will vote tactically for the opposition with the best chance.