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Breaking News - Lion Air became submarine liao
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Lion Air crash investigators find anti-stall system not covered in pilots' manual
Posted 17 hours ago, updated16 hours ago
Lion Air's Angkasa Training Center's Captain Dibyo Soesilo gestures as he explains the general training curriculum.
IMAGE The training for Boeing 737 MAX aircraft includes three hours of computer-based training and a familiarisation flight.(Reuters: Willy Kurniawan)
Investigators looking into the deadly Lion Air crash in Indonesia have suggested more training is needed for Boeing 737 MAX pilots after they found automatic emergency systems to prevent stalling are not mentioned in instruction manuals.
Key points:
Lion Air's flight JT610 from Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang crashed on October 29 killing all 189 on board
Investigators' attention was initially on potential maintenance problems, but now procedures and pilot training is the focus
US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) issued an emergency airworthiness directive urging airlines to update their flight manuals
US pilots were also not aware of potential risks, two US pilot unions told Reuters.
The comments shed further light on the areas under scrutiny as investigators prepare to publish their preliminary report on November 28 or 29, one month after the Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX dived into the Java Sea, killing all 189 on board.
Until now, public attention has focused mainly on potential maintenance problems including a faulty sensor for the 'angle of attack', a vital piece of data needed to help the aircraft fly at the right angle to the currents of air and prevent a stall.
Lucky escape from Lion Air
An Indonesian man who was supposed to board the ill-fated Lion Air plane that plunged into the sea with 189 people on board only missed his flight because he was stuck in Jakarta's notorious traffic.
Read more
Now the investigation's focus appears to be expanding to the clarity of US-approved procedures to help pilots prevent the 737 MAX over-reacting to such a data loss, and methods for training pilots.
Dennis Tajer, a 737 captain and spokesman for Allied Pilots Association (APA), which represents American Airlines Group Inc pilots, said his union was informed after the crash about a new system Boeing had installed on 737 MAX jets that could command the plane's nose down in certain situations to prevent a stall.
"It is information that we were not privy to in training or in any other manuals or materials," he said.
Soerjanto Tjahjono, head of Indonesia's transportation safety committee of crash investigators (KNKT), said on Monday (local time) that Indonesian regulators would tighten training requirements as a result of the findings of the investigation so far.
"We know, because this incident happened, we know we need additional training," he said.
The comments focus attention on the contents of aircraft manuals and a conversion course allowing pilots of the previous generation of Boeing jet, the 737NG, to upgrade to the MAX.
IMAGE Investigator are expected to deliver a report into the Lion Air crash on November 28 or 29.(Reuters: Beawiharta)
The manual had not covered how to handle a situation like the one that occurred in the crash, Mr Soerjanto told reporters.
Lion Air officials said on Monday that they had followed a training regime approved by both US and European regulators.
The approved training was restricted to three hours of computer-based training and a familiarisation flight, Lion Air Training Centre general manager Dibyo Soesilo said during a media tour of the centre on Monday.
The October 29 crash was the first accident involving the 737 MAX, an updated version of Boeing's workhorse narrowbody jet that entered service last year.
Crash investigation sparked warning to US airlines
Information recovered from the jet's flight data recorder last week led the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to issue an emergency airworthiness directive urging airlines to update their flight manuals.
IMAGE Indonesian navy frogmen try to retrieve debris from the water during a search operation.(AP: Tatan Syuflana)
The directive warned pilots that a computer on the Boeing 737 MAX could lead to the plane being forced to descend sharply for up to 10 seconds even in manual flight, leading to potential difficulties in controlling the plane.
Pilots could stop this automated response by pressing two buttons if the system behaved unexpectedly, but questions have been raised about how well prepared they were for such an automatic reaction and how much time they had to respond.
A long list of air safety incidents
The sadness in the Lion Air crash is that no-one would really be shocked by it — the Indonesian aviation sector has a bad reputation for good reason, writes former Indonesian correspondent Samantha Hawley.
Read more
An American Airlines spokesman said the carrier had received the FAA directive as well as a bulletin from Boeing on updating the flight crew operations manual.
Boeing declined to comment directly on its training program but said it was taking "every measure" to fully understand all aspects of the incident and working closely with the investigating team and all regulatory authorities involved.
Last week it said the fix for this type of event — known as a runaway stabiliser — was covered by existing procedures.
Even though this problem was, according to investigators, not covered in the operating manual, pilots did have access to a checklist designed to turn off errant systems when the plane started nosing downwards at the wrong time, said Soejono, a Lion Air instructor who like many Indonesians goes by one name.
WATCH
Duration: 53 seconds53s
VIDEO Indonesian divers are reported to have retrieved one of two black boxes but is still searching for the voice recorder.
Experts say investigators will be examining whether the crew examined this checklist and if so whether they had time to cut off the automated nose-down system while flying at a relatively low altitude of about 1,500m. Pilots on a previous flight are reported to have overcome a similar sensor problem.
To answer that question fully, investigators may need access to cockpit voice recordings thought to be hidden in the seabed.
A search for the jet's missing cockpit voice recorder is continuing and could provide important information about human factors relating to the crash, Mr Soerjanto said.
The FAA said in a statement that it would take further action if that was warranted by findings from the accident investigation.
Reuters
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Lion Air crash investigators find anti-stall system not covered in pilots' manual
Posted 17 hours ago, updated16 hours ago
Lion Air's Angkasa Training Center's Captain Dibyo Soesilo gestures as he explains the general training curriculum.
IMAGE The training for Boeing 737 MAX aircraft includes three hours of computer-based training and a familiarisation flight.(Reuters: Willy Kurniawan)
Investigators looking into the deadly Lion Air crash in Indonesia have suggested more training is needed for Boeing 737 MAX pilots after they found automatic emergency systems to prevent stalling are not mentioned in instruction manuals.
Key points:
Lion Air's flight JT610 from Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang crashed on October 29 killing all 189 on board
Investigators' attention was initially on potential maintenance problems, but now procedures and pilot training is the focus
US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) issued an emergency airworthiness directive urging airlines to update their flight manuals
US pilots were also not aware of potential risks, two US pilot unions told Reuters.
The comments shed further light on the areas under scrutiny as investigators prepare to publish their preliminary report on November 28 or 29, one month after the Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX dived into the Java Sea, killing all 189 on board.
Until now, public attention has focused mainly on potential maintenance problems including a faulty sensor for the 'angle of attack', a vital piece of data needed to help the aircraft fly at the right angle to the currents of air and prevent a stall.
Lucky escape from Lion Air
An Indonesian man who was supposed to board the ill-fated Lion Air plane that plunged into the sea with 189 people on board only missed his flight because he was stuck in Jakarta's notorious traffic.
Read more
Now the investigation's focus appears to be expanding to the clarity of US-approved procedures to help pilots prevent the 737 MAX over-reacting to such a data loss, and methods for training pilots.
Dennis Tajer, a 737 captain and spokesman for Allied Pilots Association (APA), which represents American Airlines Group Inc pilots, said his union was informed after the crash about a new system Boeing had installed on 737 MAX jets that could command the plane's nose down in certain situations to prevent a stall.
"It is information that we were not privy to in training or in any other manuals or materials," he said.
Soerjanto Tjahjono, head of Indonesia's transportation safety committee of crash investigators (KNKT), said on Monday (local time) that Indonesian regulators would tighten training requirements as a result of the findings of the investigation so far.
"We know, because this incident happened, we know we need additional training," he said.
The comments focus attention on the contents of aircraft manuals and a conversion course allowing pilots of the previous generation of Boeing jet, the 737NG, to upgrade to the MAX.
IMAGE Investigator are expected to deliver a report into the Lion Air crash on November 28 or 29.(Reuters: Beawiharta)
The manual had not covered how to handle a situation like the one that occurred in the crash, Mr Soerjanto told reporters.
Lion Air officials said on Monday that they had followed a training regime approved by both US and European regulators.
The approved training was restricted to three hours of computer-based training and a familiarisation flight, Lion Air Training Centre general manager Dibyo Soesilo said during a media tour of the centre on Monday.
The October 29 crash was the first accident involving the 737 MAX, an updated version of Boeing's workhorse narrowbody jet that entered service last year.
Crash investigation sparked warning to US airlines
Information recovered from the jet's flight data recorder last week led the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to issue an emergency airworthiness directive urging airlines to update their flight manuals.
IMAGE Indonesian navy frogmen try to retrieve debris from the water during a search operation.(AP: Tatan Syuflana)
The directive warned pilots that a computer on the Boeing 737 MAX could lead to the plane being forced to descend sharply for up to 10 seconds even in manual flight, leading to potential difficulties in controlling the plane.
Pilots could stop this automated response by pressing two buttons if the system behaved unexpectedly, but questions have been raised about how well prepared they were for such an automatic reaction and how much time they had to respond.
A long list of air safety incidents
The sadness in the Lion Air crash is that no-one would really be shocked by it — the Indonesian aviation sector has a bad reputation for good reason, writes former Indonesian correspondent Samantha Hawley.
Read more
An American Airlines spokesman said the carrier had received the FAA directive as well as a bulletin from Boeing on updating the flight crew operations manual.
Boeing declined to comment directly on its training program but said it was taking "every measure" to fully understand all aspects of the incident and working closely with the investigating team and all regulatory authorities involved.
Last week it said the fix for this type of event — known as a runaway stabiliser — was covered by existing procedures.
Even though this problem was, according to investigators, not covered in the operating manual, pilots did have access to a checklist designed to turn off errant systems when the plane started nosing downwards at the wrong time, said Soejono, a Lion Air instructor who like many Indonesians goes by one name.
WATCH
Duration: 53 seconds53s
VIDEO Indonesian divers are reported to have retrieved one of two black boxes but is still searching for the voice recorder.
Experts say investigators will be examining whether the crew examined this checklist and if so whether they had time to cut off the automated nose-down system while flying at a relatively low altitude of about 1,500m. Pilots on a previous flight are reported to have overcome a similar sensor problem.
To answer that question fully, investigators may need access to cockpit voice recordings thought to be hidden in the seabed.
A search for the jet's missing cockpit voice recorder is continuing and could provide important information about human factors relating to the crash, Mr Soerjanto said.
The FAA said in a statement that it would take further action if that was warranted by findings from the accident investigation.
Reuters
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- Joined
- Jun 27, 2018
- Messages
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- Points
- 113
SHARE
Lion Air pilots fought against automated nose dive on doomed Indonesian flight, report says
Posted 1 day ago, updated23 hours ago
Indonesian National Transportation Safety Commission (KNKT) official examines a turbine engine from the Lion Air flight JT610.
IMAGE Investigators are focused on whether faulty information from the plane's sensors led to the crash.(Reuters: Beawiharta)
Lion Air pilots struggled to maintain control of their Boeing jet as an automatic safety system repeatedly pushed the plane's nose down, according to a draft of a preliminary report that has been published by Indonesian officials looking into last month's deadly crash.
Key points:
Pilots fought to keep the plane's nose up against automated system forcing its nose down
Investigators are focused on whether faulty sensors forced the plane's nose down
Similar problems occurred on the jet's previous flights, but the plane wasn't fixed
The investigators are focusing on whether faulty information from sensors led the plane's system to force the nose down.
The new Boeing 737 MAX 8 plunged into the Java Sea on October 29, killing all 189 people on board.
The New York Times reported that information from the Lion Air jet's flight data recorder was included in a briefing for the Indonesian Parliament and reported by Indonesian media.
Peter Lemme, an expert in aviation and satellite communications and a former Boeing engineer, wrote an analysis of the data on his blog.
The Associated Press was unable to independently verify the authenticity of the report posted online.
The MAX aircraft, the latest version of Boeing's popular 737 jetliner, includes an automated system that pushes the nose down if a sensor detects that the nose is pointed so high that the plane could go into an aerodynamic stall.
Mr Lemme described "a deadly game of tag" in which the plane pointed down, the pilots countered by manually aiming the nose higher, only for the sequence to repeat about five seconds later.
That happened 26 times, but pilots failed to recognise what was happening and follow the known procedure for countering incorrect activation of the automated safety system, Mr Lemme told AP.
WATCH
Duration: 53 seconds53s
VIDEO Black box retrieved from crashed Lion Air jet, Indonesian media says
Mr Lemme said he was also troubled there were no easy checks to see if sensor information was correct, that the crew of the fatal flight apparently was not warned that similar problems had occurred on previous flights, and that the Lion Air jet was not fixed after those flights.
"Had they fixed the airplane, we would not have had the accident," he said.
"Every accident is a combination of events, so there is disappointment all around here."
Boeing did not immediately respond to two e-mails and a phone call requesting comment.
The company said last week that it remains confident in the safety of the 737 MAX and had given airlines around the world two updates to "re-emphasise existing procedures for these situations".
Pilots at American Airlines and Southwest Airlines complained this month that they had not been given all information about the new system on the MAX.
A long list of air safety incidents
The sadness in the Lion Air crash is that no-one would really be shocked by it — the Indonesian aviation sector has a bad reputation for good reason, writes former Indonesian correspondent Samantha Hawley.
Read more
More than 200 MAX jets have been delivered to airlines around the world.
The investigation is continuing with help from US regulators and Boeing.
Searchers have not found the plane's cockpit voice recorder, which would provide more information about the pilots' actions.
Lion Air's safety culture
In a statement, Indonesia's transport safety committee (KNKT) recommended that Lion Air improve its safety culture.
The budget airline should ensure that a pilot can make proper decisions to continue a flight, KNKT said.
KNKT also acknowledged actions to improve safety had been taken by Boeing, Lion Air, the US Federal Aviation Administration and Indonesia's Directorate General of Civil Aviation.
AP
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Email Address
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Connect with ABC News
Contact the ABC
© 2018 ABC
Lion Air pilots fought against automated nose dive on doomed Indonesian flight, report says
Posted 1 day ago, updated23 hours ago
Indonesian National Transportation Safety Commission (KNKT) official examines a turbine engine from the Lion Air flight JT610.
IMAGE Investigators are focused on whether faulty information from the plane's sensors led to the crash.(Reuters: Beawiharta)
Lion Air pilots struggled to maintain control of their Boeing jet as an automatic safety system repeatedly pushed the plane's nose down, according to a draft of a preliminary report that has been published by Indonesian officials looking into last month's deadly crash.
Key points:
Pilots fought to keep the plane's nose up against automated system forcing its nose down
Investigators are focused on whether faulty sensors forced the plane's nose down
Similar problems occurred on the jet's previous flights, but the plane wasn't fixed
The investigators are focusing on whether faulty information from sensors led the plane's system to force the nose down.
The new Boeing 737 MAX 8 plunged into the Java Sea on October 29, killing all 189 people on board.
The New York Times reported that information from the Lion Air jet's flight data recorder was included in a briefing for the Indonesian Parliament and reported by Indonesian media.
Peter Lemme, an expert in aviation and satellite communications and a former Boeing engineer, wrote an analysis of the data on his blog.
The Associated Press was unable to independently verify the authenticity of the report posted online.
The MAX aircraft, the latest version of Boeing's popular 737 jetliner, includes an automated system that pushes the nose down if a sensor detects that the nose is pointed so high that the plane could go into an aerodynamic stall.
Mr Lemme described "a deadly game of tag" in which the plane pointed down, the pilots countered by manually aiming the nose higher, only for the sequence to repeat about five seconds later.
That happened 26 times, but pilots failed to recognise what was happening and follow the known procedure for countering incorrect activation of the automated safety system, Mr Lemme told AP.
WATCH
Duration: 53 seconds53s
VIDEO Black box retrieved from crashed Lion Air jet, Indonesian media says
Mr Lemme said he was also troubled there were no easy checks to see if sensor information was correct, that the crew of the fatal flight apparently was not warned that similar problems had occurred on previous flights, and that the Lion Air jet was not fixed after those flights.
"Had they fixed the airplane, we would not have had the accident," he said.
"Every accident is a combination of events, so there is disappointment all around here."
Boeing did not immediately respond to two e-mails and a phone call requesting comment.
The company said last week that it remains confident in the safety of the 737 MAX and had given airlines around the world two updates to "re-emphasise existing procedures for these situations".
Pilots at American Airlines and Southwest Airlines complained this month that they had not been given all information about the new system on the MAX.
A long list of air safety incidents
The sadness in the Lion Air crash is that no-one would really be shocked by it — the Indonesian aviation sector has a bad reputation for good reason, writes former Indonesian correspondent Samantha Hawley.
Read more
More than 200 MAX jets have been delivered to airlines around the world.
The investigation is continuing with help from US regulators and Boeing.
Searchers have not found the plane's cockpit voice recorder, which would provide more information about the pilots' actions.
Lion Air's safety culture
In a statement, Indonesia's transport safety committee (KNKT) recommended that Lion Air improve its safety culture.
The budget airline should ensure that a pilot can make proper decisions to continue a flight, KNKT said.
KNKT also acknowledged actions to improve safety had been taken by Boeing, Lion Air, the US Federal Aviation Administration and Indonesia's Directorate General of Civil Aviation.
AP
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50 minutes ago
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4 hours ago
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1 hour ago
'Headline-chasing coward': Michael Clarke hits back at 'Gerald Wheatley'
35 minutes ago
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17 minutes ago
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US pilots say Boeing didn't disclose 737 MAX plane's new flight control feature
All Boeing 737 MAX 8 planes in Indonesia will be inspected after crash
Crashed plane was brand new, but had 'technical issue' on previous flight
ABC NEWS Newsletter
Email Address
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Connect with ABC News
Contact the ABC
© 2018 ABC
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