Chitchat Bond investors in Spore be careful

[Runifyouhaveto]

There were some discussion about investing in bonds.

It seems that Spore investors are not protected if they invest in bonds. So be careful & make sure what understand the true cost of owning bonds in Spore

Thank you for sharing brother Johnny.

The biggest (bond) news today is the offering of 7% Perpetual Bond from Lippo Reits (5 years).

There are two issues in local bond market now:
- Collapse of issuers (default or bankrupt)
- Lack of liquidity

Lippo probably forced to offer the highest yield in local SGD Bond market among REITS because of vanishing liquidity.

 

[Runifyouhaveto]

This shows that LeongSam is right. Singaporeans , rich or poor , young or old , simply have no sense when
it comes to manage large amount of money. Better keep it in the CPF as LeongSam advised.

There is a lot of con jobs or unfair practices against small investors in our local financial market. When you try to seek redress from MAS, MOF or even the Minister, they will probably tell you that these are commercial matters, they cannot intervene. Of course, if a whitehorse is cheated, you will see MAS or MOF responding swiftly.

So, joining grassroots or our incumbent's political party helps.

 

[johnny333]

If you are ordinary consumer you could get only get personal loans, vehicle loans, FDs, mortgages, credit card facilities, bridging loans etc. US banks here will also offer US denominated accounts etc. If you have $250K, fall on your knees and beg the branch manager to sell you bonds, they will not do it.

None of the central banks around the World allowed it. Get the picture?

Things have changed.

Last year I decided to open a US$ dollar account with Citibank. I already had a SGD$ account with them & when I called them it took a few minutes for them to set up a USD$ account. It was that easy. I didn't have to go down to fill up any forms or anything.

 

[Runifyouhaveto]

The worst person to ask investment advice is your private banker. Their KPIs is built on sales not on your profits.

For the swiber bonds, the private bankers from three channels:
- They get commission (fatter than your equities-trading) for placing out to clients.
- They make from the loan/leverage for the bonds and multiply their sales commission for selling you more bonds than you can afford.
- They get revenue points for their annual bonus.

 

[winnipegjets]

simple fact, for oil and gas companies, oil price must be in the range of $70 to $80. looking at the current price of $40+, it look impossible and rather stupid to invest in the oil and gas industry.

for those needing advice, please page for Bro RUNifyoucan, this guy is above average. better than toking cock here.

If you are a long-term investor (10 years horizon), I would buy global oil stocks now. Forget about sinkee companies or Asian companies for the matter.

 

[Runifyouhaveto]

Or your losses........
I recall talking to a VP of one the the local bank, young chap, already VP, must be high flyer, I thought.

recommended those package with terms like strike price and knockout price, don't know how it works also.
S$250k a pop, I gave him a funny and wtf look and ask him he know what is he selling or recommending.

At 250k a pop, he must see me very up.
Told him to go and fly kite, no money, how to buy........???

Our current problem is micro; Singapore market has no liquidity now. Asian bonds actually doing very very well in recent months but Singapore is having a meltdown because no liquidity. Our rich are very cash-tight now and our government refuses to inject liquidity into the SGD corporate bond market. The repercussion will burn down some listed companies and banks, eg. poor Lippo REITS has to pay 7% for their perpetual bonds today, highest level ever clocked by a locally listed REITs.

 

[johnny333]

Thank you for sharing brother Johnny.

The biggest (bond) news today is the offering of 7% Perpetual Bond from Lippo Reits (5 years).

There are two issues in local bond market now:
- Collapse of issuers (default or bankrupt)
- Lack of liquidity

Lippo probably forced to offer the highest yield in local SGD Bond market among REITS because of vanishing liquidity.

No thanks needed

I know how it feels to be burn't by the PAP policies. I got caught up in the CLOB saga & how LHL made empty promises to help Spore investors
Back then I was a newbie & didn't know how unfair the PAP policies were. I'm now older & wiser & happy to share with others what little I know.

 

[scroobal]

A lot of quarters are pressuring the authorities to investigate Swiber for misleading them contracts and backbook.

For the swiber bonds, the private bankers from three channels:
- They get commission (fatter than your equities-trading) for placing out to clients.
- They make from the loan/leverage for the bonds and multiplying their sales commission for the bonds.
- They get revenue points for their annual bonus.

 

[scroobal]

BOA, Chase, Citibank has always all operated USD accounts for all consumers. It is in my second para.

Things have changed.

Last year I decided to open a US$ dollar account with Citibank. I already had a SGD$ account with them & when I called them it took a few minutes for them to set up a USD$ account. It was that easy. I didn't have to go down to fill up any forms or anything.

 

[Runifyouhaveto]

simple fact, for oil and gas companies, oil price must be in the range of $70 to $80. looking at the current price of $40+, it look impossible and rather stupid to invest in the oil and gas industry.

i give you an insider example.

Small shipbuilders happy build one or two vessels because for investing 7-9mio, they can sell the vessels for 12-18mio during good times, if they have ex-stock.

Now, now, now, one of our most reputable shipyard took the same approach and happily built 9-10 vessels, without anyone ordering them. These vessels are either completed or near completion and hardly any buyers comes along to view them. Think of the enormous financing-cost and massive labour-cost behind the scene.

The management fears that shipbuilding will exit singapore after this O&G crisis and they stand to lose their job. So what they happily do now is to sink deeper by sending the Indian and Bangladeshi labourer back but burning $$$ to retain the experienced supervisors (making them to area cleaning) because it will really be irreversible for our shipbuilding industry once we lose the experience Singaporean and Malaysian supervisors.

We could be looking at the largest loss of manufacturing GDP since the demise of our semi-conductor, precision plastic mould injection and harddisk industry.

 

[Runifyouhaveto]

I've had my share of problems with local businesses & that is why I try to avoid them e.g. I use US Brokers. By US law there is more protection & us brokerage firms also covered by extra insurance.

If you have a Spore credit card & get cheated, you are on your own. In the US you can make a complaint to the bank & they will reverse the charges & go after the culprit. I think it is known as the lemon law.

Yes sir, US brokers are more efficient.

We cannot blame our top local brokerages because they don't have direct access to the US markets. When you buy US shares from a local brokerage, you find them slow (No REALTIME price-datafeed) and charges higher commission, but honestly speaking, they are not really profitable too. They are just doing this to maintain revenue because of the demise in SGX trading volume.

So spare your local brokers the suffering and just trade with a reputable US broker.

 

[Reddog]

The worst person to ask investment advice is your private banker. Their KPIs is built on sales not on your profits.

Why should private bankers look after the welfare of bank clients against his personal wellbeing ? Use your blain.

 

[winnipegjets]

The minister should be answering questions, not MAS. Where is he hiding?

 

[johnny333]

Oh, so I suppose the internet is the best place to ask for stock tips huh?

Plenty of free info out there on the internet.
I'm learning plenty about index funds e.g. what are they, the theory behind them, the cost of owning them, historical performance, ... etc

With all this info I can make an informed decision. After doing your homework you can better decide about the various "tips"

 

[Runifyouhaveto]

Bro run seems to have disappear again......

Sorry for being away but i miss all of you.

Selfishly, it's happier to stay on the sideline. also lazy to create a new nick to start fresh here.

Tomorrow is Super Wednesday.
Watch BOJ - 25% chance they might reduce rates
Watch Fed - 25% chance they might hike rates

Imagine the market going crazy if both 25% odds came true!

 

[Runifyouhaveto]

No thanks needed

I know how it feels to be burn't by the PAP policies. I got caught up in the CLOB saga & how LHL made empty promises to help Spore investors
Back then I was a newbie & didn't know how unfair the PAP policies were. I'm now older & wiser & happy to share with others what little I know.

I lost 700K in shares. I am a broke man.

Say liao also paiseh.

 

[johnny333]

I lost 700K in shares. I am a broke man.

Say liao also paiseh.

I lost US$700,000 in the forex market :(
Fortunately I kept some $ & trying to recoup some of the losses

 

[Runifyouhaveto]

A lot of quarters are pressuring the authorities to investigate Swiber for misleading them contracts and backbook.

Sorry Sir, I beg to differ. There were some noises when the NOL bonds collapsed after the French indicated interest to buy NOL (Change of Control) and many investors were left helpless. NOL has as many bonds floated as Swiber. But sorry, what is Swiber compared to NOL?

Many who bought NOL bonds with leverages + longer maturities are now facing margin-calls from their bankers in the past few months. Nobody helped them.

Let me assume those rich who buys bonds are less crazy those those who buy futures and FX. We can also stereotype the rich who bought Swiber as higher-risk takers but now even the most risk-adverse rich who bought NOL bonds without leverage, are facing 30-40% paper loss on the bonds that are not matured. 40% paper loss means high risk of default.



NOLSP 4.250% 26Apr2017 Corp (SGD)
Last Checked: 5% discount from par
Bonds Issued: S$400mio
https://www.bondsupermart.com/main/bond-info/bond-factsheet/SG6U79981465

NOLSP 4.400% 08Nov2019 Corp
Last Checked: 20% discount from par
Bonds Issued: $300mio
Latest Price: https://www.bondsupermart.com/main/bond-info/bond-factsheet/SG6Y06987482

NOLSP 4.650% 09Sep2020
Last Checked: 35% discount from par
Bonds Issued: $280mio
Latest Price: https://www.bondsupermart.com/main/bond-info/bond-factsheet/SG7X44961531

NOLSP 4.400% 22Jun2021 Corp
Last Checked: 40% discount from par
Bonds Issued: S$300mio
Latest Price: https://www.bondsupermart.com/main/bond-info/bond-factsheet/SG6P73971303

 

[Runifyouhaveto]

I lost US$700,000 in the forex market :(
Fortunately I kept some $ & trying to recoup some of the losses

At least u recovered. Fortunately, you are not like me.

Thank you very much for sharing, if you intended to console RUN.
I got paralyzed. Can't go back anymore.

 

[jw5]

At least u recovered. Fortunately, you are not like me.

Thank you very much for sharing, if you intended to console RUN.
I got paralyzed. Can't go back anymore.

This is the only thing I can think of to try and cheer you up. :o